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 Nokia 808 The New King of Cameraphone!, Available now!!

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tonberry_ax
post Feb 29 2012, 02:40 PM

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QUOTE(haley0918 @ Feb 29 2012, 12:58 PM)
how about we attach this onto an RC plane and take 38MP stills of our town
upload the pics on google earth or maps for ppl to zoom  icon_idea.gif
google earth and maps had always been about zooming in and out of the map
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i was planning to attach on UAV & get the live feed from the city
tonberry_ax
post Feb 29 2012, 02:47 PM

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QUOTE(haley0918 @ Feb 29 2012, 02:43 PM)
live feed? do you mean streaming? how to do that?
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similar theory, get a high frequency antenna will do. Or u can borrow maxis tower. Depends you are handle it as hobby or professionally.
tonberry_ax
post Feb 29 2012, 03:05 PM

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QUOTE(sklchan @ Feb 29 2012, 03:01 PM)
in bolehland 3G sure phail!!  doh.gif
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totally agree, using 3G in Bolehland is as good as fail... doh.gif doh.gif doh.gif
tonberry_ax
post Feb 29 2012, 04:05 PM

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QUOTE(haley0918 @ Feb 29 2012, 03:19 PM)
lol...that's why i was quite doubtful when you say about using 3g towers
usual 384kbps upload rate for sure cannot handle 1080p
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i trying to mean is getting something like maxis tower so u can transmit your radio frequency for very far distance. There's a lots of challenge for radio frequency especially u r using UAV in cities. technically is possible but working on it its not as easy as talking. mounting 808 on it, is another challenge lol... taking picture is boring, need to play something more interesting, haha...
tonberry_ax
post Feb 29 2012, 04:54 PM

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QUOTE(haley0918 @ Feb 29 2012, 04:32 PM)
i totally understand the challenges, that's why i would like to know your streaming setup for this.
let's say there's no problem on mounting, but the real problem is how to transmit the data or signal.
if it's possible to output the video feed to another transmitter, what kind and type would it be and the bandwidth?

"getting something like maxis tower so u can transmit your radio frequency for very far distance" - i think i understand your point on this as to use some kind of signal repeater for the carrier that you're going to use.

for now my plan would still be using the 3G data services for the wide coverage. then pipe my video with only about webcam resolution through a tiny linux server on the UAV. that's why i'm very interested to know when you mentioned using the camera on this phone.
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my idea is, instead of using bolehland 3G data plan, y not use wifi that comes with the phone? The only things u need to do is the boast up the wifi signal with 4 way point or more. And ur video streaming for 1024p is as good as done. To make it more interesting you can make use of the GPS in phone after u done with all these challenge. Sounds like a plan?
tonberry_ax
post Mar 1 2012, 11:54 AM

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QUOTE(Andy214 @ Mar 1 2012, 11:46 AM)
Yup, but let's just say, if you take at full resolution, there's no oversampling, so it's still the same as other camera.

If you max zoom at 5MP, there's also no oversampling, so it's the same 5MP file as other camera BUT
1. You zoomed 3X (similar to optical) and still have f/2.4 aperture, compared to conventional camera, the aperture would've changed, thus less light. That's one benefit and advantage.
The come up with this idea because for the past 5 years, they're trying to do an optical zoom, but it will be bulky, costly, and also the aperture problem.
With this, it's a good especially for compact size, yet have more benefits.

Sadly, many people decide to write up blogs and article without fully understanding.

In anyway, it's still a good technology and something that is really nice and interesting. Imagine implementing this technology to cameras (although I think Canon have something similar?)? I don't know why so many prejudice, maybe because it's Nokia and not Apple; If Apple, then "This Changes Everything".
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If that is apple, they will say: "oh we invented this, we are the god of inventor.. blah blah blah~~~"
tonberry_ax
post Mar 1 2012, 12:09 PM

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QUOTE(haley0918 @ Mar 1 2012, 12:03 PM)
did apple really said that themselves or the non tech savvy fans out there just went worshiping?  hmm.gif
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If you look back into history when SJ not died, he brainwashes his iSheep (fans) that a lots of "innovation" that iCopy that introduced is made by him. But the fact is Nokia or other handheld company invent it for the 1st place.

Lets c when iCopy going to say 41MP camera is belongs to them in future. Let's wait & see... whistling.gif
tonberry_ax
post Mar 1 2012, 12:16 PM

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QUOTE(freakenstein @ Mar 1 2012, 12:04 PM)


Elop playing fruit ninja lolol!
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Honestly i not interested to know what the worst CEO of 2011 is doing

Btw, he is going to entitle worst CEO of 2012 soon

This post has been edited by tonberry_ax: Mar 1 2012, 12:20 PM
tonberry_ax
post Mar 1 2012, 12:26 PM

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QUOTE(Andrew Lim @ Mar 1 2012, 12:21 PM)
Before Stephen Elop, Nokia had $2 billion profit a year.
Now it's $1 billion loss a year.
Everytime this guy announces something, share prices drop.
Same thing happened even with this years's MWC.
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And he still SS with his lumia crap yet drop MeeGo and Symbian few years after that. vmad.gif I was waiting when is the board of directors will fire this Microsoft trojan. hmm.gif

This post has been edited by tonberry_ax: Mar 1 2012, 02:15 PM
tonberry_ax
post Mar 1 2012, 05:11 PM

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QUOTE(kae7 @ Mar 1 2012, 05:06 PM)
it is because in Malaysia , we got MFM/MSM who create the custom garmin maps for Malaysia[and others]

while for Nokia maps , there are a lot of POIs too .. but maybe not as good as created by MFM/MSM[got custom POI]
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seriously kinda confuse to install garmin my own.. rclxub.gif even i read thu the website in freemalsing site
tonberry_ax
post Mar 1 2012, 05:15 PM

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QUOTE(Andy214 @ Mar 1 2012, 05:11 PM)
N8 also got, I know some N8 user who already done some creative photography with it.
Err... he killed MeeGo, if not MeeGo could be one of the best OS around.
Maemo first introduced Full Flash and Social Networks Integration, then evolved into MeeGo.
Then MS also apply this "Social Networks Integration" idea into their WP OS, as People Hub.

So, it's not just camera/imaging, Nokia also come up with other nice things. But because they are not Apple, so... who cares.
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yup, agreed. It's sad that a good OS that developed for years killed by a worst CEO of 2011 which only care about lumia crap.


Added on March 1, 2012, 5:16 pm
QUOTE(kae7 @ Mar 1 2012, 05:15 PM)
of course yes... , just download the latest Maps , the latest voice navigation , and others , for free biggrin.gif !!

you also can get the voice navigation with street names
you need to buy the license if you use want to use the integrated GPS , otherwise need the external GPS and pair it with bluetooth..
install garmin is easy , just download software , and then install .. biggrin.gif
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walao, stay in malaysia u still wana buy license? Crack saja la... Malaysian culture mah....

This post has been edited by tonberry_ax: Mar 1 2012, 05:17 PM
tonberry_ax
post Mar 2 2012, 10:06 AM

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QUOTE(Andy214 @ Mar 2 2012, 09:57 AM)
Basically to understand:

As comparison with normal or phone camera, 808 can take maximum:
38MP (4:3 format)
34MP (16:9 format)

808 have this "PureView" mode, what it does is... oversample (something similar like Photoshop downsampling) the full resolution into lower resolution.  E.g. 38MP --> 5MP
NOTE: You can read below my post to Agito for more information.

So, as a normal camera, it's still taking 38MP or 34MP, just like N8 taking 12MP.
With PureView, it's enhancing the photo by oversampling to lower resolution (e.g. 5MP) using Nokia's algorithm.

Now, how come the 3X zoom is lossess?
Basically Nokia want to do optical zoom 5 years back, but it will be bulky, costly, etc. you name it.
Thus, they found this solution.
In 5MP mode, with no zoom, it's at highest oversampling mode.
As you zoom, the oversampling reduces because imagine the sensor is 41MP, as you zoom, it actually utilizes the sensor area (0X zoom, you using the full area of the sensor, as you zoom, it uses less area of the sensor which is like cropping from the original full resolution).
When you're at max zoom, it will be using the 5MP area of the sensor, thus it's lossless. The quality will be like a normal 5MP WITHOUT oversampling.
If you camera with oversampled 5MP with 3X zoom 5MP (with no oversampled), you will may see some loss in quality, but it's still original 5MP.

The above, has another benefit, with conventional camera optional zoom, the aperture changes when you zoom (e.g. 3X zoom at f/5.6), BUT with above technology, the aperture didn't change at all, still at f/2.4, thus allowing in more light.
I think many people are jumping to conclusions before understanding the technology or what it is, and never tried the camera or properly review. One will sound stupid if they just simply make assumptions by just looking at the surface/cover.  They should do like GSMArena, go and try and talk to the man himself, understand the technolgy and what it actually do.

http://www.gsmarena.com/d_dinning_intervie...-review-728.php

Basically, if you take a full resolution, the image quality is very normal; Their specialty is the "PureView" method, which is oversampling the full resolution into lower resolution (E.g. 38MP --> 5MP), and they're not doing pixel binning method. At least GSMArena did a very thorough interview and get a lot of information from them.

The reason they do this is to overcome the issue of introducing optical zoom into smartphones. Optical zoom will make the phone bulky, and the cost involved for the lens will be high and it's also less durable, etc.
They come up with this where you have a 41MP sensor, oversampled to 5MP, hence, you can zoom up till the max zoom which still utilizing the 5MP part of the sensor; This means, it's something like optical zoom, the only thing is, as you zoom, the oversampling reduces, when you're in max zoom, the 5MP will be like a normal 5MP quality.
Another benefit here is, the aperture is maintained compared to a conventional camera which have variable aperture optical zoom.
Now, the D800, there is option to shoot at lower resolution (e.g. 8MP), but I don't think there's any oversampling or similar applied? If there is no, imagine applying this technology which will greatly enhance the quality, image noise, etc. I think this is a NICE TO HAVE option, you can choose to have normal 8MP or oversampled 8MP.
Canon have this lossess zoom thing I think, not sure if the technology is something similar.

It's also said oversampling eliminates the Bayer Pattern problem; Below taken from White Paper:
For example, conventional 8MPix sensors include only 4Mpix green, 2Mpix red and 2Mpix blue pixels, which are interpolated to 8Mpix R, G, B image. With pixel oversampling, all pixels become true R, G, and B pixels. What’s more, based on Nyqvist theorem, youactually need oversampling for good performance. For example, audio needs to be sampled at 44 kHz to get good 22 kHz quality.

Anyway, I think this is a good and nice technology; We shouldn't look at it negatively, it would be to if it will be available as additional options in the camera, and the guy behind it is amazing too, he developed a new generation of sensor for the N9, which utilizes best of both world from 16:9 and 4:3 format.

Some Q&A from taken from GSMArena Interview:

GSMArena: If we only needed a 2MP image, for instance, we would traditionally take a full resolution shot, and then downsample it with Photoshop. Does PureView provide downsampling algorithms superior to those of Photoshop or other image editing software, effectively eliminating this step?
D. Dinning: We haven't really made that comparison. What I can say is, depending on the interpolation and downsampling you use in Photoshop, it may be possible that you'll get similar performance. But you're then handling the JPG file that was saved, so you're probably better off doing it at point of capture. I think you'll find that we probably have a different balance to what you achieve with Photoshop. How we optimize the algorithms is to retain as much of the detail as possible that we think is represented in the object, but also filter as much of the noise as possible. In Photoshop, you typically might get a sharpness that looks higher, but you might get more noise, for example. We struck a slightly different balance when we use our algorithms.
GSMArena: Let's talk about the optics. Carl Zeiss, right?
D. Dinning: Carl Zeiss, yes. The [manufacturing] precision is ten times greater than with SLR [lenses]. There are five lenses, quite small at the top, and then get progressively larger as they approach the sensor. There's also a mechanical ND filter which can be controlled in Creative mode, similar to the N8.
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Well explained, i think those Nokia basher should took some time to read this instead of making jealous argument. nod.gif

tonberry_ax
post Mar 2 2012, 12:22 PM

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QUOTE(WhitE LighteR @ Mar 2 2012, 12:17 PM)
one thing i wish i since N8 was a remote camera trigger. even the expensive camera this days dont have that. but they used to last time...
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N900 has it, using infrared. Lets see when is the Bluetooth version is implement...
tonberry_ax
post Mar 2 2012, 04:30 PM

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QUOTE(Joseph Hahn @ Mar 2 2012, 04:27 PM)
I see the PureView tech as something like this.

For example you have a 12MP (4000x3000) pic and you resize it for web use to 1280x960. It would look good & sharp right?

And at full 12MP we can pick any area of the pic at 100% zoom, and voila "lossless zoom".

Just my 2 cents.  sweat.gif
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u been awarded this:
user posted image
tonberry_ax
post Mar 2 2012, 04:44 PM

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After this 808 model has been release, this is what i can see from people's reaction:

1) People who understand the concept of oversampling & digital imaging.

2) iSheep (fans) saying: oh this is crap, nothing is better than 4S photo(shop).

3) Andriod fans + Windows fans: y Nokia no porting 808 into their OS?

4) "End user" who doesn't know whats going on: Wow 41MP, lets buy it!!!

5) Programmers: Lets enhance the camera & bring out its potential.

6) the list goes on & on... feel free to add...

This post has been edited by tonberry_ax: Mar 2 2012, 04:45 PM
tonberry_ax
post Mar 2 2012, 05:10 PM

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QUOTE(nicholasbeh @ Mar 2 2012, 05:07 PM)
Fanboism.apple invent everything.include video call(face time).lol.
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That is the most rubbish statement i ever heard from ifanboys... doh.gif
tonberry_ax
post Mar 2 2012, 05:42 PM

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i just loved how GSMarena interview D. Dinning. Very professional in fact, no bias and well presented. rclxms.gif

That's the good place to read technical review over there. Answer all my doubt for this time. Really make me excited for this 808.
tonberry_ax
post Mar 5 2012, 10:05 AM

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Added on March 5, 2012, 10:21 am
QUOTE(eaglehelang @ Mar 3 2012, 06:52 PM)
According to My Nokia Blog, 808 will appear in India, so dont worry. India got, Msia sure got
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808 will reach sg around end of this month or next month. Malaysia will be not long 1

This post has been edited by tonberry_ax: Mar 5 2012, 10:21 AM
tonberry_ax
post Mar 5 2012, 11:26 AM

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QUOTE(WhitE LighteR @ Mar 5 2012, 11:12 AM)
source?
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u can say it's rumor, but i hope that's true. smile.gif
tonberry_ax
post Mar 6 2012, 09:54 AM

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QUOTE(kae7 @ Mar 6 2012, 01:50 AM)
sifu , can android dual core phone more smooth that this..? tongue.gif
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