Back then iPhone many things also cannot they slowly allow one by one. Last time iPhone cant change SMS tone too

Well look at WP's competition now. If Microsoft selling WP7.5 in the early days of iphone and Android such limitations would be fine but not at this present state of the industry. Users won't wait for you to add features if they can get it from other OS now.

Nokia & Microsoft's way of handling this WP7 & releasing Lumia series seems to show otherwise, they did not seem to do any proper research. Like I said, gasak only

If not mistaken, last time Iphone also no bluetooth, now they also need have bluetooth. All the 'last time' thingy, yes, few years ago can. That phase is passed, Steve Jobs was smart to capitalize on it. Now the marketing strategy needs to be different.

If you read the cute Q&A i posted yesterday, those are real life examples. Sometimes very lol the answers but good lah, laugther good medicine

This post has been edited by eaglehelang: Mar 21 2012, 10:07 AM

Now Nokia Drive offline mode is just released for Lumia. Why so late? N9 had it from day 1. Looks like Lumia is a rushed job for Nokia. The audio quality of Lumia 800 was disastrous until Nokia recently issued an update. Poor Lumia users had to wait 4 months for this.

Yup, but I don't know why Microsoft follow exactly. I mean, it's common sense. I don't blame Nokia for this as this OS is controlled by Microsoft. Previously I speak to Thomas regarding these restrictions, it's clear that they knew and they also wish to remove these limitations and restrictions. As Nokia users and their history, it just not right to have these limitations and restrictions.

Beside, Microsoft is not new to mobile phone OS, they've so much experience in Windows Mobile. It just feel weird they didn't see this, it's like they hire people from Apple and develop this. The most obvious reason is the contacts management design, 1 mobile number only and have FIXED number for each type (e.g. only 2 home number). For true contact management, it should be design as flexible, not FIXED. This is like something not done well/proper with the database design.
I've been very curious did Microsoft actually develop this or they give to third party? It's like they're new to mobile industry, fresh graduate?
Moreover, this is already Mango version, not the first version.

It looks like more towards Elop, you can see how much he loves Windows Phone. He's like all for Windows Phone.


I suppose the audio problem they can easily solve through minor update OTA? But not sure if there is OTA update for Windows Phone OS. Or they didn't design well to support minor update? Or the audio update is cannot be easily updated and require major update process?
As I read from GSMArena, the issue been known since early Dec 2011 (or maybe earlier too).

poor them, but 'promised update' strategy does seem to work (gain crowd maybe? not too sure) eventhough Lumia was rushed.

Some interesting reading:


Brutal Truth about Lumia - cannot sustain even 1 to 1 replacement of Symbian: Windows Phone strategy doomed for Nokia

http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/bran...trategy-do.html

This post has been edited by KennyKB: Mar 21 2012, 11:05 AM

No matter how I see it, I don't see how is Windows Phone OS a better choice if Symbian is the burning platform.
There're Androids, and the highly potential MeeGo.

The reason like only 1 MeeGo device in 2011. It's not valid, it's not like they released many Windows Phone in 2011? And to prove further, they didn't launch N9 in US? And upcoming 808?

Is there is a burning platform for Nokia, it will be the Windows Phone OS as it will affect many of their users.
Despite having many problems with Symbian, there still many people using it especially those that has been loyal and sticking to Nokia. Choosing Windows Phone, is like taking a big risk, trying to gain new (which is not stable) and risk loosing many of their highly potential loyal customers.

But then, it's more like depending on Microsoft, whether they decide to open up, loosen up, remove the restrictions and limitations, make it like how a smartphone OS should be.
It has great features like People Hub and Office integration. Even if people don't use it, there is a CHOICE/OPTION not to use it because IT'S AVAILABLE.
Unlike Bluetooth File Transfer, ZUNE reliane, and other restrictions and limitations... people have NO CHOICE/OPTION, they are FORCED to adapt.

This post has been edited by Andy214: Mar 21 2012, 11:20 AM

Already said again & again, WP is NOT AIMED at ppl like aunties & uncles. Can we drop this? Tired of repeating this.

Lumia was something Nokia only started in April 2011 officially & they lauched it by Dec 2011. The fact that offline mode is now here for Lumia is great liau. Try to count the number of months it took from nothing to something for a change.

Bro, I think it might be better if you look outside of our circle & region. In regions like UK, USA, there is no phone shop or carrier that will even think of selling/subsidising a Symbian phone. To them, Symbian is long dead, long before Elop announced EOL. These are the regions they tryiing to get back now. But yeah maybe at the cost of some country/region like us, Malaysia. But as you've already read, Nokia is pushing MS hard on changes so it might be just more time needed. Nokia knows what is needed for lower end phones to succeed.

So is MS and Nokia content to cater to a niche market? What about all the talk of being a 3rd ecosystem?

Yes, it's great to Lumia users that offline mode and better audio quality are here now after 4 months but not everybody are so patient. In Europe the return rate of Lumia is so high that salespeople don't even want to push Lumia anymore. In Finland itself, the home of Nokia an independent survey shows that 8 out of 10 salesmen will bring out another phone even when customers specifically ask for Lumia.

So Symbian is going off into the sunset but this doesn't mean WP7 is the right platform to replace it. If Nokia had put its weight behind MeeGo instead of treating it like an unloved stepchild things may be different.

Even if they decide to go with Windows Phone OS, there's no need to drop Symbian. The truth quite ugly, how fast Symbian will be drop very soon... sooner than expected, but hope the market response will wake them up and put back Symbian in-line.
They should only decide on Symbian future when their Windows Phone OS has stabilize. It's like running 2 tap water, until Lumia is stable and people have no problem switching and are satisfied, then you can safely decide on the future of Symbian. If software, I think you also know this phase. But they announce much earlier, they don't even know if their users can adapt to Windows Phone. It's like forcing people to adapt or "leave". Well, if the product is really that good, they can do that.

Just like the article mentioned, which I think it's an important point
1 to 1.
Can Windows Phone OS gain back 1 to 1 of Symbian? Or AT LEAST like say 80%?
Now it's just the beginning of Windows Phone, they're already loosing many Symbian customers? That alone is in UK market? Where they were more convince about their Windows Phone?

The 1 to 1 or maintaining current Symbian users is also what I wanted to highlight to my previous debate; It's not right to just tell the current Symbian users, it's not for you, go leave. Bloggers can write that because it's not their business.
For Nokia, these are their customers, can they afford to loose all these customer and tell them, don't like leave "lah", don't buy? Not for you? It's easy for bloggers to write, but it's not this way to tell customer, moreover, it's the CURRENT users. Like I said few times before, this strategy to gain new customer (which is unstable), but can they risk to loosing their CURRENT LOYAL STABLE LONG-TERM Customers?

Niche market? So you're classsifying the gazillion of youngters as niche market?

Anyway, may I know where you get the info that in Europe Lumia return rate is so high?


Unfortunately, Symbian was badly mismanaged. The original idea was to let it ride on then let Maemo/Meego take over the high end. The slow pace of Symbian improvements & the detour taken by Nokia in the Meego project caused delays that originated before Elop's time. Honestly Nokia should have just gone ahead with Maemo & not merge with Moblin to become Meego. That alone delayed things by a year.

Unfortunately because of the extremely different usage of Symbian to WP, I don't think Nokia ever hoped to just push WP straight to their Symbian users. Hence why they put a date 2015 for Symbian. I've read before that they will slowly ease old Symbian users to WP when WP is at a point that it can directly replace Symbian, but that time has NOT ARRIVED. I hope you guys understand this. This is still the middle of transition period. We still have Symbian phones to choose from. Nokia is not telling u to go away if you don't want WP.

The thing is, Nokia can have 2 OS if they want. Then everybody happy,thry can try get back some from western market while maintaining the existing customers.
If look at nokia support discussions, even those from europe, japan complain abt the zune, skydrive and increased data rates. 1st question ppl ask, 'if nokia pay for my monthly data usage than can consider all this skydrive'.
As for iphone, studies have shown iphone users very loyal to iphone. Latest from my nokia blog is iphone users 90% remain with iphone.

Elop when he said Symbian will be discontinued in 2016, is effectively saying dont use symbian. Now nokia usets need to face the question - why u using this dying OS? So uncool to use nokia, then purposely make it more uncool if using nokia symbian. Only thick skin ppl or 'old school' types will buy, like our beloved n9, DOA OS some more, haha

This post has been edited by eaglehelang: Mar 21 2012, 12:10 PM

because of the money they spend on buying apps, i suppose. For me it's the same, i spend money to buy quite a number of apps too, thinking that i would lost all of them if i move to Android.. sometimes just saddens me

Well, Nokia still have S40 & Symbian. Last time I checked QT is still being pushed very hard since S40 is a HUGE market that QT can tap into. So QT might just give Symbian a little more time.

Yeah this is mostly true. It's also why I haven't moved from Symbian & bought most games I have now on my N8 after my iPod Touch became a dinosaur.

honestly, i agree on the above when you guys said that Lumia 800 and 710 are rushed, look at the Wifi hotspot feature, recently announced and will have update, Maps too, you check on the Lumia 900 prototype unit and the Nokia Maps they are running from, you will know that there are still MANY features that are yet to be included into the phone. Right now, that phone is just a toy that has basic features, whereby N9? optimized, but lacking of apps. Honestly, if only N9 have at least whatsapp, this phone will still be selling well.

1.9% global market share for WP7 as at Q42011 is a niche market. We are looking at market share to determine whether a platform is popular or not. Actual numbers have no meaning without relating to the total.

This is the link about Lumia returns.

Why does Elop have to put a cutoff date for Symbian? Once you put a cutoff date users will migrate and new users will think twice. This is a blunder from the CEO who is too anxious to push to WP7.

Unfortunately WP7 can never directly replace Symbian in developing countries unless they change the whole design philosophy to remove its dependence on Zune and online services. This is not within Nokia's control. There is no transition from Symbian to WP7 going on, Nokia is losing Symbian users to other platforms.

True, but despite the mismanagement, there're still many loyal customers and the market demand, at least in Asia. Check out Symbian threads alone. To get US/UK region, they can "ADD" Windows Phone, not switch and announce Symbian's funeral. The announcement is like trying to tell people, "You better switch to Windows Phone, like as soon as possible". Before the partnership with Microsoft, Nokia has some great plans going on.
Even if they wish to adopt a new OS into their family, it's very clear and obvious from the response of their customers eveything... they want... Android. So, it still doesn't make sense to me, the adoption of Windows Phone. Budden, they can adopt both anyway, just like other manufacturers, they have Windows phone and Androids, clearly Android is in the lead of the game, their Windows Phone hardly sells, isn't it obviously already. If it's so bad, why switch in hardcore more with Windows Phone? It's more like Nokia trying to save Microsoft or jump together.

The date is not so much to be believed... Just like N9 fate about 2014... With that said, I'm quite glad the 808 is still using Symbian... because... it's like going full force Lumia soon. I believe it's more like forcing people into switch, if Symbian is still selling, people will continue to use Symbian. (unless Windows Phone is really so darn good).
Anyway, it's not about me; it's more like considering about how Nokia will be able to sustain their current loyal customers. Even now, they've create a Symbian hardcore supporters that will attack Lumia users. War within own brand.

Agreed. The merge is pointless and waste of time. It should be done separately. Maemo6 was developing half-way, then suddenly calls for merging; then before it was even near complete, it was abandoned.

From the article Kenny provided, this part is interesting:
"I have reported here on this blog many times, about the resellers hating Microsoft Windows Phone and also punishing Nokia. I have then explained why Microsoft's Skype purchase was the final nail in the coffin which sealed Microsoft's fate in mobile last year. There is no coming back for Microsoft, not with or without Nokia. Meanwhile, Nokia's CEO Stephen Elop has admitted that the retail channel is not supporting Lumia sales. I reported here just last week that in Nokia's home country, Finland, the retail channel so hates Nokia Lumia, they will not show the device even when asked by name, and will sell Androids instead - all this while the stores have the biggest Lumia sales displays. The launch and market reception of Lumia is a disaster. I have reported that press reviews range from the UK's Guardian saying customers should return their Lumias like the reviewer did his; to German newsweekly Der Stern writing that its buyers should take the trouble to drive to Switzerland or Austria to buy the better N9 instead of the Lumia, to reviewers from Australia to India recommending consumers buy Androids instead of the Lumia or that the N9 is indeed a better phone (not sold in India again, haha, so that was not what they wrote in India). And now, Kantar tells us that the early sales of Lumia in the USA are also disappointing."

Seeing above, the response from retails as what you mentioned previously.
And also those "reviewers" comments compare.
If I were to write a review, I wouldn't ask people to buy other device, but at least I would highlight what's the drawback and potential problem that may cause Windows Phone to loose it's customers; Hence, why I keep highlighting this before, it's not about condeming the phone or OS, but this is to highlight and should I say "raise awareness" of the severity until they look into it and make a decision FAST. It's not a hard thing for them to implement at all.

Whatsapp is coming soon, maybe even next week.

Most of the essential apps for N9 are already there but this apps weakness will disappear when porting of Android 4.0 to N9 is completed. ICS is now bootable on N9 and devs are making services and sensors work on it. From info in blogs it is almost ready to enter Alpha release.

Of course it's rushed, 8 month from nothing to market. But then again it's actually Nokia's fault since WP by itself supports WIFI hotspot & is available on other manufacturer WP phones like HTC Radar & HTC Titan.

I actually don't agree N9 is optimised. It's buggy, way more buggy than my N8 even during Symbian Anna time. Can't sync my contacts with Ovi sync, used BT to transfer contacts from old phone only to find out that N9 doesn't support multiple fields of the same type. For eg, a contact have mobile, mobile(work) & mobile(home). Only mobile gets transfered while the other 2 fields go MIA. Only way to sync properly? Go through Ovi sync, but guess what? It doesn't work prior to PR1.2!!!

PR1.2 fixed most but introduced some other very annoying bugs like buggy video playback, web browser hang in background not able to kill. I haven't been able to go more than 3 days without having to reboot my N9. I also can't replace my N8 as my media server since DLNA video playback is darn buggy for now.