Not sure how many can. I notice many Lumia users selling theirs off and the Lumia thread is pretty quiet and not much useful or interesting/technical discussion.

For very basic use, just to make phone calls, browse internet, I think not much issue, plus it's stable and smooth. BUT, for smartphone users, definitely a lot of issues.

Sad to say, almost everyone that I let them try didn't like it. Of course all of them are smartphone users and iPhone users. The limitations is just too much. Let's be honest, no point trying to protect the OS because this is a major weakness/issue and needs to be resolved as soon as possible, and Microsoft should know better, they have years of experience with Windows Mobile OS and they're not the type of company which locks everything away.

Even new team, Microsoft should provide all their knowledge from their past Windows Mobile, especially what to include. BUT this is like a outsource to someone and let the company decide everything and do everything, else I don't understand why MS would want to put in those limitation which wasn't even suppose to be there in the first place, as a smartphone device, EVEN as a dumbphone. The only phone that does this is the iPhone. So, it makes people wonder, it's either from the same team/same people/same company which develop iOS OR these people just follow blindly on the iPhone since the management give orders, we want to be like iPhone which is the most successful phone currently and we want to beat that.
Very sorry to say that, I honestly feel these are like done by people with little experience, not very creative, "straight - follow instructions or order" with flat mindset, else they would've thought of many things (which now creates many issues listed in the previous link). It feels like dealing with some fresh graduate with not much experience and they just code based on the spec requirement without more creative thinking or flexibility in mind, and perhaps the designer himself/herself also did not think of it. UNLESS, it's done on purpose, but I don't get any logical reason behind it as it's obvious that it created many problems already.

Wait for it to improve is one thing, all these ECO System talk. Did they forget that users made purchases on the platform and the purchases are not transferable? If someone invested thousands on the apps, will they willing to loose all of it?
Some people already lost when they change to Android, or they have both iOS and Android device, they would've felt and see the problem already. Who would want to invest AGAIN on another platform?
And by the time it mature, more and more people would've been using Androids and made a lot of purchases.

If Nokia/Microsoft wants to tackle this issue for Windows Phone, they should come up something for this.

As for Nokia, they should've also provided Android devices to cater for Android market users. It's so huge and growing everyday at fast pace. People are switching over to Android, from iPhone, Symbian, dumphones, etc.
Nokia is obviously loosing a BIG market there, which they potentially could've gain a lot of it. Now they just blindly FREE all this to Samseng, and help Samseng to build up their brand and name, making them shine, in such SHORT time. It's like you play some MMORPG game, you spend months or years to reach very high level, then you help some low level characters to level up and above you in very SHORT time.

Apollo? I'm not sure how many issues can it resolved. BUT I think Nokia forget one important thing, other brand also can produce Apollo devices... Why should people buy Nokia? When they've damage their own image now, and Samseng is gaining the upper hands, Samseng is now more preferred and the brand is gaining more popularity. It most probably will have better specs, maybe cheaper too and with all these technologies like Super AMOLED, etc.
Nokia is already loosing their market share on Android, and their Symbian market is dying (lucky they still have the 808), and they STILL have to COMPETE against others in Windows Phone, which is the one and only OS they will use for their smartphones. I just cannot see how they can recover and make a come back. It's not like others brand cannot produce Windows Phone OS devices,.... moreover, other brands have other devices of choice to cater for different market.
As I said, Nokia will only be selling porridge in future. While others, is selling the SAME porridge, but also have other food choices in their menu.


This post has been edited by Andy214: May 11 2012, 09:18 AM

LoL, I think it depends on what kind of user. I'm a user who look for a TRUE smartphone which can bring me closer to mobile computer, that's why until today I still prefer Maemo, no other OS can replace it, but there's no new hardware for it. So, it's left with MeeGo and Android. I would prefer MeeGo but it lacks a good browser and some good apps. Android on the other hand, lacks of good true multi-tasking and it consume a lot of resources/memory.

I can bear with some occasional lag, bugs, hangs, etc. but I CANNOT bear the limitations and restrictions. If I want less lag, I can run less services, put plain and empty homescreen, etc, but I don't bother, I still run many services and put tons of things on the homescreen. I can bear with the higher battery consumption of smartphone, if I want to save more battery, I will turn off services, etc. But if I have restrictions and limitations, what can I do?
It's when people don't know, then they complain this and that. Like i you drive a turbo car, if you floor it, you should know it will consume more petrol; But if someone complain of the high fuel consumption, then it's not the car's fault.

Windows Phone have really great and amazing Social Networks integration, that's one of the best and most interesting part. But the limitations, restrictions and all those things that are lacking CAN actually be implemented and make available. Why didn't they? That's a BIG question. It's not something that cannot be done or impossible, what's even more annoying is, it's actually can be easily implemented, but they decide not to, even after more than, erm... 1.5 years? That's a LONG time.

Now Windows Phone not just have to overcome this issue, all the talks of ECOSYSTEM. Did they expect people to just jump from Android or iPhone to Windows Phone and lost all their paid apps, which can lead up to thousands (or more than the phone price)? I think most people will just stick to their current OS, unless the OS is dead or will be dead like Symbian. Android and iOS is growing everyday bigger and bigger, more and more people will use them. Even if the person got FEEL want to jump ship, it is worth?

Honestly, MeeGo still have the potential but sadly, Nokia most probably has fired all the talented people. It's really a pity.

As for the BACK button and especially the SEARCH button, I've mentioned before, I don't really fancy them. The BACK button can be useful but at time it can be annoying because it can serve different purpose depending what screen you're on, it can become BACK, then suddenly become CLOSE, so you will accidentally CLOSE the app. I've experience this many times with Android and Windows Phone. I've been using Maemo for almost 2 years, there's no buttons on the screen (same like N9), only have qwerty keyboard, and I prefer this way. The BACK button can be annoying, and multi-tasking view, Maemo & MeeGo still the best.
Anyway, the main issue with the BACK and SEARCH button is mainly because Lumia 800 buttons are capacitive (on screen) button, so it's easily accidentally "molested" it.

Previously, I said before, many people don't really need a smartphone, they don't even know what's a proper smartphone. All they need is just a simple easy to use phone that works like a phone, but have support for application and web browsing. They don't care much about other stuffs.
There should be a new category called "Multimedia Phone" or simply mediaphone, which iPhone and Windows Phone should fit into this category, then Microsoft should reconsider come up with a new proper smartphone OS to replace their Windows Mobile OS.

The new comments in the below link is very interesting and nice to read:
http://my-symbian.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44034

Harsh TRUTH, WP7 created users like iOS:



and this:



This post has been edited by Andy214: May 11 2012, 02:38 PM

Actually, I still prefer my N900, which used to be my primary phone.
Now I'm using Android qwerty as my daily phone and N9 as second phone. If I need to make quick calls, I'll use the N9, it's much more reliable and stable, lol. And I use the N9 for the IM + sharing feature mainly, basically for what Android is lacking.

Good summarization, hehe

Basically, as I said, not everyone is looking or need a true smartphone. A mediaphone OS like iOS or WP7 is good enough for many people.

One thing people need to understand about restriction and limitation of the OS is that, it COULD and SHOULD have those features, but we're not included ON PURPOSE, or think of it, REMOVED.
Imagine if you buy a Windows 7 PC, the seller lock the administrator account and only an account with limited priviledge, the BIOS password locked, and prevent you from formatting and reinstall the Windows yourself. In short, the seller/company whichs sells you the PC controls everything and restrict and limits what you can do.
WOULD YOU LIKE IT?
This is what Apple did with iOS, and now Microsoft did the same with their Windows Phone. Their Windows Mobile wasn't like this. So should one accept the limitations and restriction imposed ON PURPOSE?

Actually, I can live without those apps, I would rather the device with those games as secondary phone, so I can play the games or use the app without worring calls coming in, sms or notifications, and most important of all, I don't have to worry draining the battery and I can't use it for important calls. Imagine if it's your primary phone, you will need the phone primary for calls, SMS, etc.

The MAIN reason the Android is now the primary device is mainly/solely because of the qwerty keyboard as I really need/want it. Well, you can tell why I need it from those post I typed, lol. Honestly, I would prefer the MeeGo as my primary device, I prefer it's contacts and social networks integration, the stability and reliability; it's just lacking a qwerty.
In comparison with my N900, it's also lacking a good browser. Maemo5 comes with so far, the BEST mobile web browser to date (yes, even till today, I can't find a browser that gives as good experience and functionality).
Android, what I have is choice like Dolphin HD or Firefox (when I want to use Flash and browse Desktop sites; Firefox works better but it's seems to consume more resource and poor performance), or Opera Mobile (when I want fast, lightweight, and simple web browsing). This is what iOS and WP7 can't offer, CHOICE.

I still keeping my N900 and use it for playing media and output to TV primarily; I'm even thinking about getting another N900 as a spare in case my N900 decide to stop working on day (touchwood).
If N9, I will want the N950 instead =P

IMHO, partially true; Yes, it makes CONTROL of users easier, LESS PROBLEM because you can be sure user will make less mistake and there will also be LESS BUG, LESS SECURITY ISSUE.
In short, you there is a concert, you only allow 1 ENTRANCE, you need less resources and manpower, it's easy to monitor the situation, you can much more control, easier to control. BUT the people who want to enter the concert will suffer but the organizer doesn't care as long as they can control the situation EASILY and with LITTLE EFFORT.
Is this RIGHT? They make so much money and do SO LITTLE WORK and GIVES the people all the HASSLES.
Does it mean they cannot open up more entrance? They can, they just need to do it properly and have better MANAGEMENT, MONITORING and proper resource and man-power assigned.

A big complicated software is surely harder to manage, but does it mean they cannot do it? It's not mission impossible and Microsoft is NOT some new fresh company in software, they're a big giant and they provide software design and development tools as well as COURSES. Their courses themselves, teaches flexibility and so on. What they did now is totally against their teachings. That's why I'm surprise and cannot accept what they did to their Windows Phone OS, it just so ALIEN comparing with it's past OS, it's nothing like Microsoft Windows except bearing the Microsoft Windows LOGO and "outlook". It's just what I feel.
Moreover, this is a Zune Media Player + Phone, it doesn't quality as a smartphone to me.

---

Added on May 14, 2012, 9:34 amI would say not all. For sharing services, it's still MILES apart from MeeGo. MeeGo still have the best sharing services.
Plus, social networks accounts and conversations, MeeGo have more integrated services.

However, for the rest, Windows Phone really did very well and comprehensive. This is one (and probably the only) most impressive feature on Windows Phone OS.
BUT I guess MS somehow overlook this, others can also implement the SAME thing in future. So, it will no longer be unique in future. When other OS have this, they will be better because they doesn't have the limitations and restrictions (except iOS, budden iOS have jailbreak).

This post has been edited by Andy214: May 14 2012, 09:34 AM

It'll mean carrying additional hardware right? I prefer it's built-in or attached to the phone, so I can just slide it out. There's one for iPhone and it makes it looks like N900.

Yup, MeeGo has enough choice of browser including one which supports Flash. It's only lacking a physical qwerty keyboard.
WP7's IE is not bad, but still no flash. Useful for simple/normal web browsing and it's smooth and stable. But that's it, you have no choice if you need to run some website with flash.
With Maemo browser, I can open almost any website, with the mouse cursor feature, it's another plus and also the full Java support; the only drawback is the performance as the device lacks of memory mainly and processing power.

N9 have problem playing video. With N900, I have no problem playing any video file types as long as the resolution/bit rate isn't too high. With N9, even with KMplayer, seems it's still not as good as N900 plus N900 comes with built-in 32GB, and I can add another 32GB microSD, totaling up to 64GB of space.
My N9 16Gb is always full and I always need to clear it whenever I want to transfer new files, sometimes I can't even record video and have to delete some files.

N9 is good, but for me, personally, I still prefer the N900; I don't really need/fancy multi-touch and stuffs, I prefer the web browsing experience with Maemo, the use of stylus for precision touch, as well as for drawing/sketching.

Here's a demo of Flash on N900 I've done long ago (the last part I show how to activate the mouse in web browser and how it can be used):


This post has been edited by Andy214: May 15 2012, 09:09 AM

COOL! Thanks for the info, will look into it~

Yup, hope they can come up with solution for the videos, kinda annoying with the default player, and kmplayer isn't very easy to use as Maemo version.

Hm, I think that's not the actual dead pixel as in hardware. I remember PSP have this problem, they call it "stuck-pixel" and can be fixed with some app which frequently changing the color tiles or something to "un-stuck" the dead pixels. Can't really remember already, so long ago.

No idea about LCD technology thing. I just share what I able to recall or since there was similar cases for PSP, but not sure if the same apply for AMOLED. But I suppose the problem is due to software than hardware hence it can be fixed? If hardware, I suppose if the hardware fails, it will not be able to display it? Unless it's not actually damage? As in temporary failure.

No matter what, cut micro-SIM has risk. Just like you cut and join wires VS replace new wires.
When cut, the sim car will not be as smooth as proper micro-SIM. Plus, cut micro-SIM has tendency to cause the Sim Card to bent a little, and may cause the SIM Card totally unusable anymore. I even attached it back to the case and try to use as normal SIM in other phone, the SIM Card is damage.

As I said before, there're case where the cut micro-SIM scratches the phone sim reader part, although very rare, it's still a risk and it can cause the reader part to damage, and this will require change of the ENTIRE MOTHERBOARD.

No matter what, there's still risk. So, recommend properly. If not informed, people will not know. Maybe they willing to change micro-SIM? But if one never said anything then it's not right. I myself prefer people to tell me the risk involve and let me decide, not ask me to cut and don't bother. Even my friend, when I suggest him to replace, he said waste money, etc. Then I explain to him the risk, about the cost to replace a proper micro-SIM and the availability of an adapter; He consider for a moment, and decide to replace, he even bought the micro-SIM adapter from the supplier at cost price. Just let people know and let them decide themselves.

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Added on May 17, 2012, 11:49 amNot all also.

This post has been edited by Andy214: May 17 2012, 01:51 PM

The main issue is when the person wants to change number, or have 2 number. Seems you can really manage your contacts in WhatsApp? Or can you?
But then people will still have the number and thought it's you. There is a big flaw here, they need someone that can switch the number to new number, and all your contacts which have yours contact will auto-update to the new one.

I think no one really do. But one thing that is very clear from day 1 itself, it's as what the rumor says... attack from the inside, bring it down, when everything is down and cheap then...

Still doesn't make sense. Why do you want to announce the death of your OS before the device even release (e.g. N9)
Why do you announce when your primary OS (Symbian) will be executed when your new replacement OS is still 1 year away to be seen. Doing this, your kill your own platform, your customers, bring the market share down, people start leaving and people who knew will not want to buy Symbian phone. Loosing huge Customers and Profit.

There's no plans to go multi-platform, they're going WP and dropping Symbian. If there's ANY Symbian revival, that would mean the shareholders want it back or Elop/Nokia has no choice to bring back Symbian as their Windows Phone isn't doing well as what Elop speculated. Lastly, WP is not only provided by Nokia, Samseng, HTC and some other brand also can adopt it and have their own device. With Samseng brand name gaining it's popularity, their device specs, etc. People might favor Samseng more, plus, it's more Samseng

Honestly, I don't see how it's gonna work. Even if WP actually become good and famous, but Nokia only offers WP, while other brands have multi-platform. Just like what I mention, a shop which serves only porridge, while another shop which serve the SAME porridge but also serve other food. The first shop can only capture customers who eat porridge, but even so, they need to compete with other shops.
Nokia has no Android devices and there're s many Android users now and growing everyday, when they invest more in Android apps/games, they will be reluctant to leave the platform, plus the OS has stable updates and growth and backed by Google. By this, Nokia already lost a big market share there as they don't even have any Android device to compete and grab the market. Samseng and HTC basically are leading, and they will compete against Nokia for Windows Phone devices.

Nokia still have Symbian customers, these people have choice to go, Android, iOS or WP (or other OS). Will ALL of them choose WP? Definitely NOT.
Will majority of them choose WP? I don't think so.
What happen? Nokia will loose a lot of their Customers, can they afford it? Maybe many of their customers still want to stick to Nokia, but if Nokia only have WP devices, so Nokia is again loosing their potential customers.

Just imagine this.
Nokia PureView devices available for Symbian, MeeGo, Android and WP devices. Nokia could've easily capture a lot of Customers.
Even without PureView technology, if they have Android device, imagine now they wouldn't be suffering loss. Samseng wouldn't grow so fast and got so much FREE and EASY opportunity given by Nokia.
Nokia have good camera phones, if these phone were available for Android, they could easily capture many customers.

Imagine if Nokia have multiplatform and have flagship device for each platform.
Today, SIII and One X will not have tough competition especially when Nokia have more to offer especially in the imaging area. Many of the SIII 9 million pre-orders could be belong to Nokia (if they have an Android flagship and with good imaging capabilities).

Means, each platform (e.g. Symbian, MeeGo, Android, Windows Phone), they will have competitive device and grab the market/customers. When they have more money, they can do much more for Windows Phone.
If they adopt Android they don't have to worry about how to bring apps to the platform, they're just "tapping" the market and gaining profit, popularity, customers from there.

Imagine IF they could manage to somehow do something with the app market to link with Nokia account; then they can make the purchases transferable to another platform as long as the they're STILL using a Nokia device. This way, they can have more assurance of maintaining their customers/users.

My Xperia Pro is sluggish, laggy all the time. Well, I installed many things and runs many services. The ram is really lacking and Android didn't manage the memory well. It's worst than my N900, the only good thing it has it's the convenient apps and PapaGo. The reason for the Pro is mainly due to the keyboard.

Actually got 768MB RAM can get smoother experience already, but the Xperia Play, Xperia Pro, etc only 512MB RAM, and internal memory for apps also so little, no more space for new app, and not all app can install on SD Card, plus FB app cache and some apps cache will slowly take up internal space and you need to clear them on and off.
FB integration also not properly done, after clear, FB app will be like newly installed again and will ask for sync contact again, then you will again get duplicate (which you have merged previously).
Very messy and poorly done integration unlike Maemo/MeeGo and WP7.

With too little ram, you can't multi-task, the smart Android keep kill off the application you put away and it's slow to switch between apps. How I miss Maemo multi-tasking. Even SIFU SuperEvilAlien, using SGS2 also said he missed Maemo's multi-tasking. The experience is just,... different. Google should improve on this.

Yup, and switching between apps in Android isn't smooth as well, it's slow and takes time. Not sure on ICS with higher end device yet, didn't get to try my colleagues Nexus before he left. But so far, with Galaxy Note, switching apps still takes time,... well, just like Symbian. Maybe we're too used to Maemo/MeeGo which, I feel is more smooth and convenient.

So, we can only keep our N9... and hope the community will continue support it until as long as possible. Well, they're still supporting those old Nokia Tablets sometimes even till today.

Since Android is supported by Google and are very popular now and will be here to stay, and is the only OS which is open and have the potential compared to the other 2. Hoping Android will improve on it's multi-tasking and reliability.

Lumia 900 (flagship) is selling for RM1799, surprising cheaper than PureView. PureView pricing *could be* to protect Lumia 900 sales.

808 was silently release and sold, it was sold a day BEFORE it suppose to be selling; Someone bought it and posted in 808 forum shocking everyone and people thought it's trolling, but it's true. It's sold out in many stores on/before the official day it's suppose to be selling.

Confirmed with Nokia Rep from SG, it will be limited units and they're not pushing on the 808 as they're concentrating on the Lumia. Not sure if there is demand, will they bring in more units and colors, currently, only black and white available. Else, can wait for AP, which should be cheaper and more choices of color? Probably can get the package with Gorilla Pod?

Sadly, N9 and 808 will be the last and most anticipated device from Nokia, one for MeeGo one for Symbian. How I wish 808 is running MeeGo =P then I can replace the N9 without any dilemma =P