hi,
I hope members can assist me in my query about renovation that i am about to make. Thinking of extending the front porch with concrete slab roofing and wonder whether the is a standard warranty period against defects, eg water leak etc. from the contractor. As many of you have constructed or in progress, whether there is such a thing as defect warranty period as to my understanding concrete works would not show immediate defects as above unless very poor workmanship. Anyone ,any comments please.
thanks.

There was a similar thread where someone asked about % retention from contractor's last payment to cover defects liability.

If you buy a house from a developer, it's 18 months according to the law (Housing Ministry).

For renovation where there is no proper contract, the situation is a bit tricky. It seems it's like a 'willing buyer, willing seller' situation. It's advisable to decide before signing the 'contract' how long. Most owners leave everything to the contractor. The contractors seem to dictate the terms. Of course, the contractor would want to collect all their money upon completion. If there is no more money to collect, do you think they would be willing to come back to do repair work. What if the roof leaks? Or the walls or floors crack?

I think six months is a reasonable period for defects liability. You have to insist on it or the contractor will tell you there's no warranty/defects liability period (like a forummer-contractor here would tell you).

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Feb 15 2012, 02:08 PM

TS, the defect liability period for renovation works is very much depend on the owner and contractor negotiation. It could be vary from trade to trade.
Give you some example,
Waterproofing - 10 Years warranty.
Roof truss - 10 years warranty.
External paint - 5 years warranty.
Shingles roof covering - 30 years warranty.

This post has been edited by enriquelee: Feb 15 2012, 02:35 PM

No renovation contractor will give you this type of warranty.
Reno contractors are small timers.
They can give you warranty on paper but what's the point?
Withholding of payment is the best warranty!

If you get those contractor who sapu all and do one, probably you can not get these warranty.
But if you get individual specialist subcon, you still can get these warranty. The problem is, you need to spend time to coordinate them.

With regards to payment with-holding, I don't think the contractor would agree to hold his final payment(10%) for 6 months, let alone 1 year as the moment the works is completed, he will ask for full payment.

The reason of my question is as my intended porch renovation is of concrete roof slab, the defects like leaking would not be possible to detect within 6 months as normally such occurances happens after 1-2 years, as what my friend experience, right in the middle of her porch. Contractor - deny responsibility and cabut. Cost of repair plus waterproofing - 8k.

Is asking a 2 year warranty against leaks sounds reasonable?

I suggest you get a specialist waterproofing contractor to do the job. You should be able to get a 5-year warranty.

Concrete roofs are always problematic. It's a matter of time before problems crop up, the concrete cracks. If you want assurance, better not do concrete roofs. It is actually not suitable for our type of climate. Go look at those old houses where concrete flat roofs were common in the old days. Which ones don't have problems?

If you worry about water leakage, i will suggest you don't reply on waterproofing system alone, coz most waterproofing system fail.
Do something on your structure roof, design it in such a way to ensure good flow of water, then add on with waterproofing system, you will be safe.

Is there any particular to use a concrete flat roof? Is the slab to be used as a balcony?
If not, go for metaldeck roofing - solves all your worries about leakage.

Metaldeck roofing is different from spandex roof? Improved version?

'Spandek' is one of the profiles of metaldeck roofing from Lysaght. There are others.

Kencul have to answer you why he needs r.c. flat roof, not me.

Brother you are really one kind, there is no contractor allowed you to uphold 5-10% for 6 months so call retention or liability periods, even under discussion. No Way.. Unless you choose to go all in proper building procedure $$$$$$$$$$$$$$. I think the way you advice is jeoperdising ppls property as the contractor will show you gangsterism and bear this in mind never said 'i don't pay or i will not pay' to the contractor. I believed most of the contractor out there is talking about 'connection'.

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Added on February 17, 2012, 7:09 pmAgreed, become Project Manager or Site Supervisor.

This post has been edited by AVL Living Concept: Feb 17 2012, 07:11 PM

Lol, a project coordinator la.

Friend, there is no need to resort to name-calling if people do not agree with you. You are speaking on the subject from a contractor's point of view. Of course all contractors would want to collect 100% of the money and not want to come back to the house to attend to the defects if they can get away with it. It is up to the owners to insist on a retainer before the job is awarded, as an assurance that defects will be attended to. 5% is not a lot to pay to get the assurance.

Of course nothing is free, we don't expect the contractor to come back to rectify defects for nothing. You are saying that it is not possible, no contractor will agree to this condition. Any condition can be negotiated if it is made known from the outset. Just because it is seldom practiced does mean it is the proper way.

I did say there are contractors who are apt to use threats if they are not paid in full. The situation can be prevented if the condition is clearly spelt out at the beginning. It's just that most houseowners, being laymen, tend to be too trusting and do not insist on their rights.

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Feb 18 2012, 12:33 AM

From a houseowner pointof view, I have already seen too many renovations gone awry and both sides in dispute including mine. Only thing can do is be careful, choose your contractor carefully and watch when they're working.

If during negotiation and ask for retaining fees, I am sure the renovation cost will be 100% + x%, x% being the retaining fees. Contractor will not be loosing end but house owner.

Is all about trust and select the correct contractor.

I agree totally about selecting the right contractor but it is not always easy.

As vetkin grey said, most renovation projects end up awry. You can't base things on trust especially if the amount of money involved is large.
You are dealing with people who generally don't have a high level of education, the small-time contractors.
The amount involved in renovation projects can go to more than 100K. If the contractor is sure about what he is doing, why is it so difficult to accept the condition for a sum to be retained upon completion?
Most problems in houses don't appear immediately after completion.

Developer were obliged to give housebuyers a defect liability period of one year under the law. The Housing Ministry found it not enough and changed the law to to increase the period to 18 months. There must be a reason for it. Zero DLP for renovation works?

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Feb 18 2012, 12:01 PM

First of all i dun speak onbehalf of any side as i have an experience before although im a designer for almost 12 years and does not related weather you agree or anyone to agree. Sumhow you did, from what i can see most of your post is blaming the contractor never deliver, enforcement retention, 100% collection & etc. There is nothing you can do to meet the absolute solution between contractor or customer besides if you choose the actual procedure by CIDB, MOF & etc from the beginning, $$$ again! Or by trust as vetkin said will comes to Win Win situation.

My current projects is in Shah Alam seksyen 7. Built & design for 4 banglo's FYI there is no retention figure to be allowed, but we still provide 1 month defect liability period (5%) provided is regular & genuine customer. Our scope is only interior cost at 400k above for each banglo.
All this while is been practicing by contractor whereby anyone can enjoy cheaper price. Are you the contractor (Oparloh) ? If you do, will you allow 5-10% 6months retention for renovation works? Unless you are doing charity for 6months interest.. There is no such retention to be applied dude but not for projects.

BTW i don't see stars or keyboard warrior, i bet you are not in this industries whereby i don't see any point by giving KLCC with terrace house.

Need consultation, my showroom in Bdr Sri Permaisuri/my showhouse in Alam Damai/my factory in Balakong.

You are talking about interior design & interior fitting-out work where the problem of post-completion defects appearing is not such much a problem (being withn the house) compared to building works which involve a host of different trades. Common problems include roof leaking, plumbing problems, cracks, waterproofing problems, electrical problems, poor finishing, etc. I don't suppose you deal with these problems much if you are only handling the interior works.

I don't know what experience you have in contract administration but proper interior work is also based on a written contract with all the conditions, drawings and specifications for the contractor to follow. All these formaliites are done away with for the 'smaller' renovation contracts where the arrangement between the owner and the contractor tend to be very informal. However, in practice, renovation jobs are worth tens or hundred of thousands where, relying merely on informal arrangement and trust would not work. It's not so simple as just buying a set of kitchen cabinets or wardrobes.

Vetkin has said that most renovation jobs go awry towards the end, why? There's something wrong with the arrangement. Conditons are taken for granted, not dealt with before the job was awarded, the contractor has a free hand, impose conditions which are one-sided. Still, without a proper written contract, there is still an implied contract if a dispute cannot be settled and the case goes to court/tribunal.

I don't see the need to reveal my credentials, suffice to say that I have been involved in builiding projects for decades, particularly in dealing with housing projects for developers are well as individuals from beginning to end.

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Feb 18 2012, 03:13 PM