Is anyone here still following brood war scene? I am curious about Starcraft 1: Brood War current metagame. Well, mainly because of fast expand in SC2.
Is zerg/protoss/terran actually go for fast expand in BW? Because in SC2, zerg definitely will go for fast expand as opening unless it got interrupted by a pylon or engineering bay and etc.
What is the popular strategy that now being used in every BW match-up? I am really curious about that, as well. As for race Opness, which race actually leading in Korea now?
Added on January 29, 2012, 3:35 pmZvT. terran can go 14CC 1st, flash is famous for that...but once in a while you will get f***ed by a 4 pool. zerg always fast expand. their most common strat is 3 hatch muta which is get 3 hatchery b4 20 supply. then str8 rush to spire. use sunken colony and veyr little lings to defend only.
TvP. terran will do 1 rax FE or 1 rax, factory FE. 1 rax FE is quite dangerous...basically terran will be very dangerous until ur 1st siege tank is out. but you must FE or you stand no chance. protoss normally will get 1-2 dragoon to contain then expand behind. protoss must have more base than terran. PvT is like ZvT in sc2. protoss need alot of base with alot of low tech unit. terran need to turtle with tank and push with max army....
PvZ is protoss forge FE or 12 nexus 1st. if not you die. anyway 12 nexus 1st also can win a 4 pool from zerg in the hand of BW pro. for zerg, fast expand also. then get alot of tech to constantly tech switch. its very hard for protoss to win this match up unless you have imba storms and reaver dmg...
TvT ZvZ PvP lazy comment....but generally BW games are very long drawn out other than ZvZ.
This post has been edited by quest_5692: Jan 29 2012, 03:35 PM
Is anyone here still following brood war scene? I am curious about Starcraft 1: Brood War current metagame. Well, mainly because of fast expand in SC2.
Is zerg/protoss/terran actually go for fast expand in BW? Because in SC2, zerg definitely will go for fast expand as opening unless it got interrupted by a pylon or engineering bay and etc.
What is the popular strategy that now being used in every BW match-up? I am really curious about that, as well. As for race Opness, which race actually leading in Korea now?
There is no OP race is broodwar, the only thing that makes win/losses different are maps and player skill. People fast expand all the time cause everybody is too good at defending one base builds other than cheese.
So, in the end, all boiled down to fast expand? I thought Sc2 is the one who popularized fast expand.
I don't know but I think fast expand is lame...LOL
lol, sc2 was young thats why in year 2009 and early 2010 no1 fast expands in GSL because they dont know how to defend 1 base all in...while BW already have a long history, 10 years adi, all kinds of 1 base all in had been figured out and can be easily deflected even if you fast expand.
sc2 is still abit long to reach that level yet...you see now ppl forge FE in PvZ can still be punished by zerg 1 base all in because of bad building placement and poor micro....the indication of game became more mature is when people can fast expand comfortably. even if your opponent cheese you, because of your extensive knowledge and superior skill (or even skill) you can easily deflect it. so the game will advance past 2 base and a slugfest full macro game can commense. thats where all the fun is! who likes to play with low econ.
if you dont fast expand, you will suffer severe econs disadvantage. if you dont kill him before he rip his FE fruits, you will die. so you have to all in and kill him b4 that happens. right now, its still possible to kill your FE opponent but then all in options are very limited so as long as you practice how to defend against it, you can say you have mastered FE. then your opponent have no choice but to FE as well.....the reasoning is pretty clear.
This post has been edited by quest_5692: Jan 29 2012, 04:28 PM
Pretty much.. Depending on what race you play also.. Terran and Protoss really like to do 1-base all-ins with +1.. Zerg about 95% of the time FE if want to hold an economical advantage..
Joined: Jan 2012
From: Terengganu Land of Teh Turtles
Would like to add on T v P, where usually T will go Mech Army = massing Goliath + Vulture + Tank is crucial and normal in this Matchups , later on will add Science Vessel for detection and EMP spellcaster unit
for P , Goons and some Zealot (mineral dump army I guess) are used alot to harass oppositions FE and Recall from Arbiter is Key for harassing and messing with tank line + spider mine from vulture
Starts at 6:52
This post has been edited by wairai: Jan 29 2012, 05:42 PM
There is no OP race is broodwar, the only thing that makes win/losses different are maps and player skill. People fast expand all the time cause everybody is too good at defending one base builds other than cheese.
lol IMO there is OP match up. its maps that are balancing it...thats why map making team is important....like ZvP. blizzard no longer fix BW, so they need the map making team to fix the balance....
Added on January 29, 2012, 7:00 pm
QUOTE(yuvster @ Jan 29 2012, 05:30 PM)
Pretty much.. Depending on what race you play also.. Terran and Protoss really like to do 1-base all-ins with +1.. Zerg about 95% of the time FE if want to hold an economical advantage..
lol no, protoss cant survive with 1 base against zerg hence FFE, 1-1-1 terran hence 1 gate FE into robo.
no, terran cant survive against zerg with 1 base. in higher lvl, basically its at least 2 base. unless some shinenigen rare all ins...
This post has been edited by quest_5692: Jan 29 2012, 07:00 PM
lol IMO there is OP match up. its maps that are balancing it...thats why map making team is important....like ZvP. blizzard no longer fix BW, so they need the map making team to fix the balance....
Added on January 29, 2012, 7:00 pm lol no, protoss cant survive with 1 base against zerg hence FFE, 1-1-1 terran hence 1 gate FE into robo.
no, terran cant survive against zerg with 1 base. in higher lvl, basically its at least 2 base. unless some shinenigen rare all ins...
Actually terran can survive against zerg with one base, theres this build called 2 port wraith where you survive with only one base for extended periods of times while getting critical masses of wraiths to deal with zerg. Normally we don't do that cause you basically end up playing terran like zerg and doing muta micro while macroing which needs about 300 average broodwar apm to work efficiently.
Action starts at about 7 minutes in
Even I go 1 based builds most of the time as I can't seem to outmacro any player that has more apm than me as I don't play the game often anymore .
You actually have a point about races being imbalanced. At one of the finals, forgg aka OGSfin practically destroyed jaedong (his teammate at that time) because the maps were very terran biased. Even then some players like Flash and Jaedong trained so hard that maps became a second thought as times as they would still win in race specific biased maps.
This post has been edited by MYNAMEISJASON: Jan 29 2012, 07:16 PM
sc2 maps are usually small thus encouraging rushes (especially close spawn)... gold bases are greatly imbalance to the terran's favor due to mules (which is why there are no gold in GSL maps)... mid-map xelnaga towers allow the terran to have a good siege ground making it hard for other opponents to flank (a popular example is antiga)... some maps make it really hard to take and hold a 3rd base (random rocks at 3rd base for zergs)... maps with lots of tight chokes funnel armies too much... easy map-split make trading units harder...
compared this with the maps in BW and its no wonder how much better those maps in BW are... the GSL maps are totally lightyears ahead of the ladder maps by blizzard (zenio in IEM Kiev said IEM map sucks as IEM used blizzard ladder maps during his interview and say MMA will surely beat dimaga which is proven true)...
Hmmmm...never know that maps actually play such a huge role in the game. I always thought that maps in SC1/2 are extremely irrelevant and pointless compare to Wc3 maps.
From what you said, XelNaga Tower and destructible rocks are the reason why SC2 maps suck so hard.
Actually terran can survive against zerg with one base, theres this build called 2 port wraith where you survive with only one base for extended periods of times while getting critical masses of wraiths to deal with zerg. Normally we don't do that cause you basically end up playing terran like zerg and doing muta micro while macroing which needs about 300 average broodwar apm to work efficiently.
Action starts at about 7 minutes in
Even I go 1 based builds most of the time as I can't seem to outmacro any player that has more apm than me as I don't play the game often anymore .
You actually have a point about races being imbalanced. At one of the finals, forgg aka OGSfin practically destroyed jaedong (his teammate at that time) because the maps were very terran biased. Even then some players like Flash and Jaedong trained so hard that maps became a second thought as times as they would still win in race specific biased maps.
yesterday Light used 1 base wraith harrass against Killer (i think, the zerg from team 8) but then light got untouchable TvZ he is the fking god. (excluding flash =.=)
Added on January 29, 2012, 11:06 pm
QUOTE(wairai @ Jan 29 2012, 07:10 PM)
Boxer famous Bunker Rush on Yellow
1) thats 10 years ago 2) its called cheese
Added on January 29, 2012, 11:07 pm
QUOTE(kding2 @ Jan 29 2012, 10:25 PM)
Hmmmm...never know that maps actually play such a huge role in the game. I always thought that maps in SC1/2 are extremely irrelevant and pointless compare to Wc3 maps.
From what you said, XelNaga Tower and destructible rocks are the reason why SC2 maps suck so hard.
this shit is bad. but then dno why sc2 havent implement mineral block....the 40 mineral patch one.
This post has been edited by quest_5692: Jan 29 2012, 11:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
From: Terengganu Land of Teh Turtles
^Still its cheesy and all-ins
I was referring to that post and emphasis on rare all-ins.. hey you could still get bunker rush'd if not scout properly and have sucky sim city ... just saying
QUOTE
yesterday Light used 1 base wraith harrass against Killer (i think, the zerg from team 8) but then light got untouchable TvZ he is the fking god. (excluding flash =.=)
This post has been edited by wairai: Jan 30 2012, 07:18 AM
Jan 29 2012, 03:12 PM, updated 14y ago
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