Yes, I totally agree. But doesn't the Forte also have 6 airbags? I'd chose between the two, but I'm a bit skeptical of Korean cars (especially since that Spectre thread with the cracked dashboard).

The Fiesta shouldn't be too unreliable, there are many of them in Europe. Different weather though...

Well, if you go for Kia or Ford you might go hunting for spare parts, which might be a bit difficult.

To give you an example from Renault (no clue how it is with Ford or Kia): I can easily get the spare part (with some waiting) from my SC. For example RM 490. In Singapore I was quoted S$135 at one spare parts dealer who has one, another quoted me S$100, but I'd have to wait around 2 months. Chop shop in Singapore (after some searching... such a cheap part they may not be bothered to even search, so they simply say they don't have) had the part for S$50. In Europe it costs like 30 Euro new including shipping, but customs might mean trouble (dunno). Waiting is another thing that might happen. If they don't have stocks here...

You also might only get original parts here, so it is quite expensive.

With a Toyota or Honda the hunt will probably be less troublesome.

However you get the nicer, better, more refined car. Toyota uses ancient technology, but being ancient means they have perfected it. It _should_ last, but the gearbox was already used by the Romans etc.

DSG is the latest tech in gearboxes... basically it is a manual gearbox with 2 sets of gears and 2 clutches. Driving it is a bit different from driving a normal auto (at least the VW I drove will roll back when you are in D and not on the gas pedal), but the fuel consumption will be lower and the performance is better (6 gears vs. 4 so the engine can be kept in the optimal rpm range for what you want to do), the gear changes are faster and smoother. Go to YouTube and have a look how such a gearbox works.

CBU is completely imported from a foreign country. CKD means they deliver the parts for assembly in Malaysia, some parts might be made locally. Means lower taxes but the fear that someone in Malaysia screws up and the quality is lower.

AFAIK A segment means submini... very small cars. Viva, VW Fox (mh... bad example as it's not known here) etc. A small hatchback or the saloon based on it is in the B segment. Think Polo, Fiesta, Vios (based on Yaris (Europe)/Vitz (Japan)), Swift, ... C segment is something like a Golf, Forte, ... then D segment would be Passat, Camry, Citroen C5, BMW 3 series, those sort of car.

Looking at the sales figures of the Fiesta though it actually doesn't do that bad. Means SC will be experienced (my SC knows the Kangoo since there are quite a few of them on the road, and they all come to the same SC), parts might not be that big of a problem and perhaps non original parts might be imported one day. Resale value might change if the car becomes popular, and... well, it could.

I would say it is B segment, but who cares, really. What counts is if the car suits you in terms of space, quality, ride etc.

The price for a new car... could happen. I believe they have raised the price already. Resale price too. It all depends on how much people want the car... what price they are willing to pay. If it becomes popular, then yea, they want the thing, and thus are willing to pay more for it. Not popular, price will be low. But how it will be in 5, 10 years, who knows. It's like buying and selling stock...

You might want to read the respective threads of the cars that you consider. You'll be finding complaining Vios owners, complaining Fiesta owners, complaining Forte owners. Vios owners will probably have more options though, there are more SC and workshops that can deal with the car.

My main advice is to drive them all as much as you can and under realistic circumstances and to listen to the owners (not that they'd say their car is crap compared to the competition, that would mean they'd have to admit they have made a mistake. Not everyone would want to do that. And not everyone has had the opportunity to drive the competition). Also, every car will have it's strong and weak points. You'll have to know yourself what is more important to you.

I drive a Citroen Xsara II 1.4(M) from 2002 and a Renault Kangoo I Ph 2 1.4(A) from 2005.

Been in a Toyota Aygo (pretty stiff and unrefined, loud, cheap materials, but reliable) and Yaris/Vitz (Vios hatchback). The Yaris felt cheap and a bit loud (IIRC definitely inferior to the Xsara, and I believe also to the Kangoo, though materials are better than in the Kangoo). The ride felt unrefined IIRC (been a while).

I have only traveled a few hundred km in some older Fiestas (I think one of them was the previous gen one). They felt like proper cars, in small. Other Fords as passenger... S-Max, old Mondeo (early 00s I believe), mid 00s Focus wagon and the older Fiesta. They were all decent cars IMHO.

I did drive a first gen Ford Ka (not really relevant but fun to drive except for the Myvi'ish manual gearbox. Imagine a small 4 seater go kart, but it felt decently made with not too bad materials... must have driven 130-140 and didn't felt scared) and the latest Ford Galaxy (7 seater van, something like an Exora). The Galaxy was very well made, looked really good and felt pretty good. I really liked the ride, not as stiff as a VW (Touran!), but also not wobbly at 180 km/h (the Touran is more planted at those speeds, but I only didn't go faster cause I didn't want to torture the engine). The engine was the smallest diesel, which was actually powerful enough. Manual gearbox was pretty good, totally unlike Myvi or Rusa. The Fiesta is much lighter and has more hp

I liked the DSG in the VW Cross Touran, totally unlike that rubbish 4 speed auto gearbox that Renault used in the Kangoo. Miles apart. While I expect the Toyota unit to be better I doubt that it can compete with a DSG, even though in the Fiesta it lacks the paddles.

I also spent some time in the latest Opel Corsa, which is probably the closest competitor to the Fiesta. It's a good car. My Kelisa driving cousin from Singapore drove it several hundred km one day, and she liked it (more than the Xsara ). I did a short test drive, it felt well made (interior is good, much better than Myvi and Saga), a bit stiff suspension but nothing too bad. However I really hated the driver seat, perhaps I should have spent more time adjusting it but the seating position was bad. Not sure how Corsa and Fiesta compare, but I guess both are a decent example for a small mid budget Euro hatch. In comparison a Polo is a bit more expensive over there, and perhaps a bit better. Here however... oh well.

My only experience with a Kia was with the cee'd Sporty Wagon and tyres with spikes, on snowy roads chasing after moose. (so different car in very different conditions). It felt quite a bit cheaper than a Golf, but well, it is a quite a bit cheaper car. It was in all aspects inferior, but still not too bad. You get what you pay for. I'd say better than the Xsara (however I enjoy the not too stiff ride of that one on uneven surfaces, sometimes contis feel just too uncomfortable... I'm looking to you, VW), but it's also a newer car.

As I, like many, haven't had real experience with the cars in question and your taste and preferences may be totally different from ours, please do drive them. In some threads though some report who have driven both Vios and Fiesta, and I believe they preferred the Fiesta.

This post has been edited by kadajawi: Jan 8 2012, 03:21 PM

Why didn't dare to try higher? The way the car feels? Scared of summon? Only poor roads in your area? In a modern car of that size 140 shouldn't feel dangerous or unstable. Xsara does 160-170 with ease... it's a bit loud, and the engine really struggles, but other than that... no worries. Touran 190 easily, Ford Galaxy too. Golf+ as well. Even a Skoda Fabia felt quite safe at 200+ on the Autobahn... ok, I wasn't driving, and the road conditions didn't make it feel that safe (snow, slippery, ...), but the car itself was fine.

Hm?

I have heard good things about the SX4... but does a SUV really make sense for you?

I'm half European, currently living in Malaysia. It's a shame that they do not bring the cee'd here, it's a decent and affordable Golf competitor.

I see, then my worries are nullified, the Forte can handle high speeds, it's just the driver.

The toll highways I have driven around JB are in good condition, only thing is it's a bit narrow (on the Autobahn you could probably squeeze in 2 cars per lane, plus an emergency lane for cars that have broken down. On the other hand they might not be very even (potholes are all fixed and they do warn/limit the speed if the road isn't in good condition), and there often is enough traffic to make you slow down).

Do consider that the Forte will only as a 2.0 have (almost) all the safety features that the Fiesta sedan has.

What gearbox does the Forte have? They only mention 6 speed auto, so... will that be a regular auto gearbox? Then FC won't be as good, the gearbox in general should be inferior to that of the Fiesta.

Anyway, 6 speed has the advantage that the engine can stay in the revs that make the most sense at the moment. Let's say for optimum performance the 1.4 in the Xsara has to be kept between 4000 and 5500 rpm, while for optimum FC the revs should be as low as possible. Would I have a 3 speed auto, the gearbox can't do that most of the time. Performance will suffer and the engine has to revs higher than necessary (i.e. the engine would deliver enough power at lower revs). 4 speed is a bit better, 5 and 6 of course better yet. CVT with an infinite number of gears, when properly set up, is even better (but people don't like it because it sounds and feels weird).

Oh, very cool. The sedan was the first to have 7 airbags, while the hatches all had only 2. Now the expensive hatch also have it? Very nice, can finally also recommend the hatch for those who prefer the looks of it (and who doesn't).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEZFvC-AvEg&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoK3wLihs7w

So going for the Vios? Test drive that one too.

Not more quietly (that's the noise insulation they use...), but well, faster. Very fast. It's what Nissan uses in the GT-R. I thought the gearshifts were very smooth in the Touran, except when using the paddles for downshifting, then there was a slight jerk (going to quite high revs though).

Also since a DSG is basically a manual gearbox using real clutches it behaves a bit like a manual one. Low FC compared to the regular torque converter auto gearboxes, but also rolling back when standing on a hill while in drive (at least the Touran does that, however I think there is a feature where you have to press the brakes a bit harder while standing still, then the car will engage the brakes until you press the accelerator. Not sure how Ford solved it.

I still think Ford is foolish for not adding 2 paddles (how expensive can that be?!).

@Jim.tan: Is it true that the sport also has 7 airbags now?

To change gears manually. F1 style

Resale is only of concern if you want to sell the car soon. Why not get something proper in the first place then? I guess a new Forte or Fiesta will still seem modern and high tech compared to a in 5 years new Vios.

Not so sure on the breaking down thing. My Renault 19 lasted me for 12 years, I sold it off because it was not viable anymore and a small thing was broken. And that wasn't a car with a great reputation. Citroen Xsara is 9 years now, and shows little signs of aging. And it, too, is a French car. I think 10-15 years is somewhat reasonable, and after that the resale value of any car will be quite poor.

Those cars are deathtraps though.

Go for high resale value if you plan on changing the car in the next 5 years or so. If you want to keep it 10 years, then don't bother, get the best car you can find.

Car owners are given 2 changes? Never heard of that... but you have to remember that Germans before going there will sometimes check and fix stuff, when they think they can't pass the test. Those issues of course the TÜV won't notice. The TÜV mostly tests for issues related to the safety of the car. Anything that's dangerous they'll complain about. Some light on the car not working, they won't let you pass. Problems with the brakes, no chance. Tyres run down, not enough air pressure etc. they'll complain or not let you pass. The exhaust gas are tested in the AU, a car that stinks more than it used to will give you trouble (but I think it's not included in the TÜV report).

What they won't notice is for example engine breakdown. Of course when the engine is broken you won't be driving to the test.

There is another big source for such info, the ADAC. It's the biggest German motoring club, it's the one most will call when their car breaks down on the road. Search for their numbers too (however some manufacturers give a mobility warranty for a few years, so if the car breaks down call them instead of the ADAC. I wonder why... Mostly it's the premium brands gaming the results while making customers happy.)

The TÜV tends to be a bit strict I admit... last year I didn't pass the first time because the gearbox was leaking slightly. It was fixed... I passed... and it still is leaking. The rear bumper was also standing away a bit from the body panels, they didn't like that either. Nothing that would harm the operation of the car at all, but yeah, it's dangerous.

One of the reasons why the Dacia is at the bottom is that owners don't give a s.... It's a dirt cheap car, how much are you going to invest in keeping it in good condition? Same with the Kangoo (well, also it does have a few issues), it's often used as a panel van, and how good do you treat a panel van?

If you want to have a look at the ADAC results from 2010: http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/unfall-scha...annenstatistik/
Those are the numbers from ADAC. Kleinstwagen = A segment. Kleinwagen = B segment. Untere Mittelklasse = C segment. Mittelklasse = D segment. Obere Mittelklasse = Anything above that. They lump in MPVs and SUVs that are falling in these size categories, so a Kangoo e.g. would be C segment. The rest should be easy to understand... the years say from which year the car is. I think they list everything they get called for, even when you have forgotten the keys inside the car and they have to break in for you or when the battery is dead.
And this is the latest list http://www.kfzticker.de/wissen/adac-pannenstatistik-2011/ Easier to understand, but they don't list each year.

Btw.: In another thread there are a few who are trying to sell their Vios for around 35k... and they want to do it as fast as possible since the car is falling apart! One is hardly driving his car anymore because any km could mean it stops working. On the other hand my 25k Kangoo works beautifully, although it is supposed to be rubbish.

Btw.2: According to the TÜV Porsche hardly ever have any problem. No matter how old. (Not sure if this is due to the build quality or due to owners taking great care of their cars. I guess it is both.) So if you want a super reliable car... buy Porsche.

Btw.3: The Fiat Panda, which performed really horrible according to the TÜV (at least the first batch of the relaunch) now is pretty much the most reliable A segment car according to the ADAC. And the Japanese are falling back, usually they are somewhere in the center now, while the Germans have improved.

Only polishing his car once doesn't mean that he doesn't care about it mechanically. You can still service it on time, every time, in the SC. Fix any problem as soon as it arises. etc. But yeah, 280k is a lot.

Ah I see, so they don't even look at the car. That explains it.

I don't even bother washing it (maybe once or twice a year... . And the rest depends on car, luck and driving style. I don't drive a new car, but my 6-7 year old Kangoo has had few issues so far (95k km). Only the catalytic converter was broken... replacing it makes you wanna cry, but thank god everything is possible here ).

This post has been edited by kadajawi: Jan 19 2012, 08:32 PM

The Fiesta sedan has amazing specs, especially in terms of safety. The sport is totally not worth it.

Kia Rio, Peugeot 208. The Fiesta eliminated itself, so these are the only non local options. Otherwise there are still the Preve CFE and Preve hatchback. Or the new Kia Picanto.