I'm a bit outdated, can anyone tell me standard of web design fees detailly?

for example, static website, animation, scripting...

thx!

You want Malaysian company or overseas one? Overseas like Deonix will charge around $3000. Malaysian ones charge roughly RM1000.

Or you could get templatemonster and customize it. I always do these and the sites turn out just fine.

Too hard to quote without details from clients. Some quote 5-page-static-site for only RM300, some can quote upto RM600. It really depends on the "design" and the designer.

i'm guessing RM800? for a standard* brochure site.
pick one-
design-wise:depends on the quality of your work.
total = estimated hours needed x the value of your time
but don't tell them that you decided the cost based on hours...

business-wise: depends on the maximum amount the client is willing to pay.

remember, cheap clients always demand more than they pay for and almost never worth the trouble...try not to go below RM400?

*subjective

Freelance rate or company rate?

freelance, companies prolly charge RM2000 and above

For my case, anything below RM1000 is not worthy of my time, except if that project can establish a long-term business relationship with that client, giving you more projects in the future.

And wantanseller's method of determining the rate is a good basis any freelancer should refer to.

IMO there's no such thing as STANDARD pricing.

Plus the client might require you to do some montage for him, as he never provide any material for the websites!! And they ask for discount some more! These kinda clients are the most scary one...

I been doing some, cost 500 or something...
so, i just wannna make my own price list...
so, curious bout what other people is offering to their clients..

well, unless you can provide the same amount of quality as the rest, it would serve no purpose to match their price. And if you do it anyway knowing yours is of a lower quality, it means quality itself is not the determinant factor, and you might as well just charge as much as the client would pay... this means no pricelist. Realistically, like goldfries mentioned, there is no such thing as a standard price given that each has their own range of services and design. It's like asking the standard price of cars... thus the RM800 i quoted earlier can be liken to stating that the standard price of cars is RM70,000. I hope you get what I mean.

so i recommend you do a bit of research on your own and google around for malaysian web design companies ( <--these are not the keywords! ), i've seen quite a few put up their price list as well as the service that they provide. From there, form your own conclusion and decide a price that is right for you.

M'sian web design companies have a usual price range, but their offerings and pricing vary so much that you couldn't even consider it as any standard.

all in all, there's so many factors involved in web-design that it's really impossible to quantify.

the involvement of graphics, flash display, HTML codes, scripts (PHP / JS / Others) and most of all, the time and effort taken to come up with preliminary designs..........sheesh.

the one that kills the market i find, are those that put their services like RM 40 - 60 per page on newspaper. i had a client asking me this before. for all i know, they could either be good designers desperate for deals or they could just be n00bie 'thought i'm good' webdesigners that does everything on MS Publisher or something.

in short - what i'm saying is that there's more to price-per-page when it comes to web-design charges.

Would anyone have called me if i didn't come here..?

Anyway, listen to wantanseller (my assistant analyst) and goldfries (my fish in my bowl). LoL! Just kidding.

But they are right in what they're trying to explain. Countless times we've tried to describe to many people around here that a standard pricing isn't easy because in web design and development, it's based on different criterias having to do with design and development.

However, even if we ask ourselves or others first, what is a basic/standard website design/development? you won't get the same answer cause there are the companies, the freelancers and the 'wanna-bes'.

Standard to me would be HTML and CSS, template design, 5-10 pages.

That itself I normally I start from RM1000 or more (no less) and work my way up. The only time I bring down the price is after I've digged up the background of the client.

So the conclusion is, weigh yourself in all aspects of design and development skills against the freelancers then try to think about your price.

Just to give you a head start, I normally charge clients anywhere between RM30-50 an hour.

Cheers.

Nowadays clients really smart... everthing wanna cheap. Really hard to survive... design fees really cheap. What to do... just keep overhead low.

Not CLient smart..It's sometimes Our fault or silliness dunno how to sell the Web technology well..haha

If u got a strong portfolio.. they are interested wif u & dat's the moment u can give urself a high price. If u r not confident enuff, u better start wif a humble price like the others suggested.

I only interested Full package web design wif RM1000 above(No databse involved).. Else i really no mood to bother it.
Der is no Design can be done just a few times modfications.
Dat's y u gotta equal the painful<=>Profit. U will feel better if u think bout the money.

This post has been edited by dinodog_Jr: Nov 17 2005, 12:07 PM

wad if i jz could design...n i dunno those programming like php.net ler...duno wad ler.
need employ 1 programmer?

where can i get the templatemonster?

@rissband
www.templatemonster.com

buy it..

Tm89:
well, unless all your clients only want HTML.. I suppose you don't need a developer.

wad if ehh...need those php.net,java....then no choice?

unless you know how to program in those languages.. then i would say, yeah.. you'd need to outsource the work.

or maybe u can count how much lines of codes you typed AND how much graphics you created and use.. sums up and make some calculations for how much for each pics or lines of codes.. that's all.. nowadys, want to connect to mysql database @ RM15 only, already mahal..

check here :MuidLatif's Article..

This post has been edited by [the][matrix]: Nov 25 2005, 01:02 AM

The article that I think you wanted to share was this one:
http://muidlatif.blogspot.com/2005/06/welc...-designers.html

Muid's one if my buddies in work and a normal friend. Whatever he says is true, and come to think of it, I even just blogged about something like this not too long ago..

http://www.dannyfoo.com/archives/2005/11/f..._of_client.html

let's say a hybrid site with about 12 pages? and a simple flash banner with not too canggih effects...how much will that add up to for a freelancer? see if it's done by the company that i'm working in...it'll probably take up to about 5 man days where each man day will cost approximately RM750, so per project RM3750...i consider that pretty reasonable...isn't it?

One of main problem I experience with (my potential) client is that they aren't IT related hence they doesn't know much on how difficult it is to come out with a good overall design (I not just talking about plain and n00b interface that make the site look likes it been build for personal site and not corporate).

There is no standard personally but I do stick to the normal range of pricing depending on the functionality and difficulty of each project.

***
Line of code isn't a good method in calculating price since it all depend on how good a programmer you are. I adv. programmer can optimize his (or her) code to almost 50% compare to newbie programmer. Other than that I seen static website generating more line of code (due to the extremely large content) while a large dynamic site generating far less since everything is done in server side and store in database.

This post has been edited by crynobone: Nov 25 2005, 09:43 AM

earthkid:
I find that pretty reasonable as long the quality that comes out is good.

crynobone:
I think I too need to start quoting on pages and images especially when it gets too much to handle some times.

it's like some clients don't even have digitized logos or photos.. headache..

I'm curious. There's been talk on 5 pages on how much would it cost. Maybe 5 pages would cost Rm1000 which include main page, about us, products, services, contact.

What about picture enlargement, whereby in products section there is 12 products which you click on the pics it will enlarge a bigger picture. Is that included in the RM 1000 project or would it cost additional more.

And what is 5 pages, what is a page. Is it an A4 size, or a computer display 800 x 600 consider a page or a page that can be filled with unlimited of things at clients request which you need to scroll down with internet explorer exactly 3 times (which makes it a long, long page).

Please shed some light.

great question benison.

some say 5 pages (full A4) to me means the content to be placed is at full A4 x 5.

some count opening a new window (popup) is equivalent to 1 page. in other words, it's counting the links.

I still think the best way to calculate is by the hours because you can then multiply the rate by how many hours you spend on the project. But of course you can't quote a client after project.

So maybe what you could do is have a rough figure by seeing how long you'd normally take for a single page that might include 1 popup or more than 1 popup. Take your hourly rate and multiply the number of hours then you have a rough figure to work with.

I feel like I need to quote clients how many A4 pages of content and how many images or else it might get out of hand sometimes.

We don't charge by pages or hours, but by a whole lump sum as it is really easier that way. We generally charge RM2k for a normal site, RM5 above for a site that needs a simple CMS. Like Crynobone said, it also depends on the scope of the project, and also the size of the company. I did a major international event website recently and we charged them 15k last year, but this year we're doing it for RM50k... added functionality and so on. We stopped doing any site that costs less than 2k as it's just not worth the time.

Price hike because of petrol prices ar? LOL!

Anyway, if the website is huge and the clients wants you to do all the content insertion for them on the first launch then of course it costs more because you're required to take time in the planning, developing and data entry.

As for the 2k not worth the time, you can't really say this for everyone out there. To a student, 2k is a lot of money and unless they're developing a project as big as the one you described, than maybe they could price it higher but not to what you're pricing.

It's like a company. Your prices are high as well because you have a team involved. You need to pay their living. Since sharing is in the equation, pricing high is a must. Also, because you're involving each individual's time, if you calculated their hourly rate then it just might equal up to what you need to charge.

hope all that made sense.

Actually... in this company, i'm the only webdesigner, hahah. When we take design projects, i do like 80% if not all of the work. But yeah, that price wouldn't work for students.

er.. will they take the work of a IT college student?

how to find these jobs/clients? I'm thinking taking up some jobs during skool break... hehe

the best methods of starting without a budget is tell your friends and family members that you're on your school break and you're just too much an IT addict to not do any work during the holidays and you're looking for website projects..

maybe you could leave out the IT addict part but yeah.. spread news to friends and relatives..

ermmm may i know the price for a simple, non-transactional php website?

-simple database, and nie display can dy

what about simple html + some feedback page asp and 10 - 15 pages ... for rm 1000 with 3 free updates , not redesign

is that is wise price ?

chowsc:
what do you mean non-transactional? first time I'm hearing someone describe a website with that term. anyway, if it's a single page and nice design with a database, I suppose the price is determined by who you find for the project.

if you were to hire a professional, they might charge you RM500-RM1500 just for the project. if you find a student, well, it might cost a lot less.

brotherhoe:
if you were a student, that might be alright but if you were a company. I'd say that's a little on the very low side. don't forget, you'll need to add the content in later and if all 15 pages have content (text + images) to be placed inside, it'll take time to do it.

I think I would charge a minimum of RM1500 without any maintainance. And what do you mean 'not redesign'? Meaning the website has no design at all and you'll just use the CSS styling to make the website?

Cheers.

no fixed price man.......... each designer will offer you different things. their skill and delivery time and even quality will be different.

it's been a really interesting debate about prices on web designing, and seriously, i've also in the midst of dilemma and confusion on how to charge my client for updates and maintainence, which always go out of hand, like...the content can come suddenly out of nowhere

then you have to set an agreement - once they FINALIZED the details, that's it. any subsequent changes will be charged.

however for me, i usually close-1-eye on this matter. even till this date, my customer still ask me to add / remove stuff for them. i do it for free.

yeah... the price maybe vary. No fixed price but i usually i charge at least RM 1800.

Maintainance I'll normally tell my clients that I charge based on an hourly fee.. but because most of our clients opt for a CMS, we don't have any maintainance.

Quote as high as you can (reasonable price that is...), coz, you'll never know when clients want to change that change this... some clients are very very picky. Even tho the site is simple, you need to take everything into consideration. Your time, your sleepless night, your stressful day thinking about when ideas gonna pop up. Even simple stuffs like image resizing, touching, cropping, etc. Those kind of things are easy to do if it's in a small amount. But if u need to resize like 20 pictures and then crop it, etc.
Take ALL into consideration.

the design part is the toughest i find. crack your head like silly just to find what the customer likes, especially those that have no idea of what they like in the first place.

Hehehe... yeah, true true.
But usually, I'll just ask them "what kind of design do you like?. Show me something (brochure, pamphlet, poster, etc.) that you like."

yes i would do that too, just that some of them really don't have anything to show.

so normally i would prefer to ask "do you have any company brochure, pamphlet, profile, or whatever printed materials?"

cos really, what they like is one thing but the design must also match with the already established company design / feel.

that's how i go about la, but some times their printed material also barely enough to get inspiration. so end up browsing coolhomepages.com

hehe, same same... but sometimes even coolhomepages.com isn't enuff. so, end up at deviantart...

p/s: We are a lil bit out of topic

ok hehe, just to illustrate that pricing for web-design is more than just RM xx per page. it involves a lot of blood and sweat, and of course the occasional late night snacks.

much time is taken to consider the company, the choice of color and design to respresent the company, the layout for ease of reading / access, and of course the creative aspects, then there's also the dirty work.

some of these things is up to us to educate the customer.

Make sure there's some part of your price to be put aside as backup payment. Sometimes clients like Cyphereza mentioned - the fickled minded ones that will haunt you with their constant changes until a certain level where they wiil (obviously will) expect you to absorb the extra costs of their demands. This is where the extra funds comes from.

Well, the client doesn't know how much is it charged for just the design since normally what we do is introduce the whole 'package' to them of design + development. Only when the client says they want just a design, then I'll charge them accordingly if the template changes per page or it maintains through the content pages.

But even when I do that, clients are held down by my T&C of not being allowed to change more than 30% which is also considerable by me. Also, I've already informed them first hand that they will not get the work file (PSD) because they'd have to pay almost double to get it. After all, that's the only intellectual property I have as a designer.

As for backup payment, so far 50% before project and the remainder after has been fine with me.

@etsuko dude non-transactional that i meant was just no transaction of fund involved all transferring of fund will just be directed to third party paying method

ooo ? no fixed price ya ....can we use the concept of reserve bidding here? to hire someone to work for something ..since there are so many pro. here

LoL! You could try.. and it is an interesting concept since Malaysia doesn't really have that.. just hope it won't deminish the market as it is.

Hi etsuko,

When you mentioned that your clients opt for CMS, do you mean customizing already available CMS (joomla, mambo and etc) to suit the client's needs? Please shed some light as my clients prefer a site that could be easily maintained by themselves.

As for pricing I do agree with others there is no "standard pricing". Seems hard to do business nowadays when a lot of chinamen business owners will exclaim "WAH, so expensive ARR!!??" for even the lowest quote. :x

Well, the CMS isn't alterations of an existing CMS. We've got a custom built one to provide to our clients actually. And because most corporate clients wouldn't maintain that much items except for updates to small content, images or sometimes jobs, our CMS is built for those reasons.

There have been reasons we've customized our existing CMS to the customers needs but those really pay a lot more than what we'd charge.

aiyoh...the more i read the more difficult to think of a suitable price. most of the companies who ask for these kind of services are almost "buta IT" anything would sound expensive to them.

by the way is it possible for me to post my work here...and ask/poll for a rough price???

of course.. just start a new thread with a poll of either asking us how much we think it's worth or how good it is.

the price isn't determined totally by the client but through your own honesty. however, if you're a damn good marketing person who could tell the client they'll get a million return after using your stuff, then you are good. :roll:

That right. Selling is an art. Convincing is better. Conning and still believe your are getting the best is out of the world.

BTW, just my 2 cents- our malaysian market is over-crowded with designers. Just look at their pay and you'll know. No point doing design if you are a money minded guy. Get the deals, be the boss and hire some diploma holders to do it. Pay the designers 20% convince the clients that its worth alot. Viola there goes 60-80% of the total money to your pocket.

Thats the reason i left design too.

Well, the whole explaination above wasn't to scare or request for everyone to not be a designer. Just that if you want to be one, it's more challenging and you need more than just copying styles or following what some are doing in their methods of business.

Besides, it depends which segment of a business you belong. Are you an employee, self-employed, business runner or merely an investor?

All this you'll realize through experience and you'll know when you're ready.

Cheers.

well, this has been a very interesting thread to read,
personally, I'm in the web business as well, although I'm more developer inclined

But literally, what I see happening here in the market is, there's so much 'web companies' that doesn't deserve to be one. they charge 300-2k, come out with template based stuffs that they took from elsewhere... and calls it a wrap.

What happens is, this creates a false sense of value in an actual 'good' website. I've been asked to do something for such a ridiculous price that I almost ended up laughing out loud in front of him.

For pricing, I usually goes for 1.5k per project basis. Or more depending on what they want.. especially in regards to flash sites. The more you pay me, the more hours i'll put in refining the effects, getting it right, etc etc.

It's really hard to put a price on our line of work...

Speaking of which, any graphic designers here who would take on some freelancing jobs/per project basis? drop me a pm and i'll keep you in the loop the next time i need design services

At the same time, if you need a reasonably good php developer who knows about templating/standard compliance codes to help you out in tight times, drop me a mail too

This post has been edited by eltaria: Mar 21 2006, 01:16 AM

Malaysia.. we're doomed.

About that graphic designer thing, if you're looking for people to design websites.. please make sure they know about websites before even asking them to design a website.

Or in the end, you'll just end up with one of those templates that will create a website without value later on.

Cheers.

good discussion guys. i really appreciate of things that i read.