sorry,typo,not midf, but miti.

Em, saga is sub b segment, while gen2 n persona is b segment, never be c segment car.

Altis n civic is c segment car as inspira. Vios n city is b segment car.

Quite unique the way u comparing segment of cars coz even international mags, dont do comparo b segment with c segment cars :-), quite unique i must say.

If u have the opportunity to know asian max 1600 challenge which satria neo won previously, that is the cars in b segment, such as city,vios,yaris, jazz, swift, pug 207,gen2,neo n etc.

To do comparison b with c segments is like comparing bmw 3 series with merc e class.

By the way,its ur own way of comparing, even its unique, after all, we are malaysian, living in unique country. Happy motoring.

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Added on January 11, 2012, 5:30 pmsaga has competitors actually, but rarely other manufacturers sell it in malaysia. U can see a lot of saga competitors in india (not tata nano, but ford, suzuki, renault, dancia, toyota n etc) n in china.Dunno why, maybe coz of malaysia market,they dont like buying cheap cars from other automakers. Same fate happen to alto,cheaper than swift,but coz made in india, even by suzuki,less sold than swift by big margin,people still opt for viva. Same as i10,definitely better than myvi lb coz it is hyundai global car,better equip,better kappa engine, better tech,better safety, equally priced(personal opinion),but the sale is pretty weak to compare to myvi.

Thats why malaysia is a unique market like forte, global car, sold really well globaly, but when sell in malaysia market, cannot beat vios n city market,even civic@altis, although it is better equips than the competitors. If it is due to brand, hyundai, kia is top 5 manufacturers together with toyota in the world, so good brand indeed.

This post has been edited by mat79: Jan 11 2012, 05:30 PM

its just up to ur opinion kadajawi :-), then,persona n gen2 shud be the cheapest c segment,not only in malaysia, but out there, but then, people still complaining about it price.(according to ur opinion lah, not mine)

but reading others, fiesta is never golf n jetta contender, mazda 2 also the same. I dunno whether out there auto journo compare glf n jetta with fiest@mazda 2, or they compare it to focus@mazda 3???

But it seems golf n jetta is compare with focus n mazda 3.

By the way,it seems good for prtn coz atleast somebody manage to see it as c segment, so since p321a is bigger n longer, so now it become accord n camry rival in d segment :-). It is a good sign actually. U get d segment car, at b segment price.

Hopefully the best for proton,make us proud.

good info about germans make,and actually knowing about it too. Even in same segment, civic n altis is still not 3 series direct competitor nor c class merc.

But wiki, dont depend on it 100% coz it is editable,but still can get useful info. P321 is upper b sub c segment,like forte, 1.6 to compete with b as vios n city, 2.0 with civic n altis in malaysia.

Anyway,good info kadajawi. Really apreciate things that u share.

turbocharged,it is under asian speed fest n festival,it is in 2009. Prtn won the podium,both cars,both neos. The circuit in sepang,thai n indonesia. But dunno why they stop the competion afterwards,conspiracy maybe coz if u look at the competitors, mainly them are manufactured in thai n indo. Just plain thought.

The same price coz some manufacturers enjoying higher profit due to tax lifting. Why need to reduce price when people still thinking 300% tax n they can enjoy higher profit since people still buying it at the same sales figure from year to year. Some, reducing profit margin to cater market coz the brand itself is not strong in malaysia market.

Just refer to customs website n maa n miti for futher info. Malas nak tulis coz too long to explain coz too much too cover. Just read from the source shall we. I also has sonata ap paperwork,cannot publish,nanti my friend kena coz it pnc. Nanti depa tau kat mana paperwork tuh coz ada mcm2 data. Safely to say that their traders profit is a whooping rm 70k.

The new nap is to abide wto rules n regulations,not afta which already fully abide since 2010, for cars already since 2009. So,according to nap, cbu 30% n 10% ckd non asean cept will be abolish, so,asean japanese n koreans cars, peroduamthey will have to prepared to face the european wave starting this year, n i believe prtn already prepared with p321a,p322a n gsc :-)

thats why its hard to compare with other countries coz sometimes, even they assembly it in diff country for diff market. Same as beemer, if u check around the world, the price is not the same, the spec also sometimes not the same. Just get the info on docket price@manufacturer price from customs,it help u to figure out. Why not visit www.funtastickodesign.wordpress.com, the data is available to download from there :-).

P322a, neo 4 doors :-), just joking,its actually hatchback version for p321a, with a little sporty look, n cfe engine will get the manual trans, 6 speed getrag. If everything run according to plan, will be introduce in 2013, just wait for the spyshots, i think will be available in march, if only someone manage to spot the car, he..he..

P321a is not the best car in the segment, but it is capable. soft plastic sir,if u mind....:-)

ha..ha..not working with them. But have to admit knowing some important people inside which been my friends n insiders.

Yup,there are problems n weakness here n there, but they are trying their best effort right now. U know la, masalah birokrasi, uncapable cronies n etc. Rnd team actually do their best from the start, but being hampered by others after that. Thats why many of them actually sad with what happened, n people in malaysia blamming the rnd people, while they are doing really good job, name it design team, engineering team,hnt team n etc. But u know,they are not the one who make decission, selection of vendors n etc. They done their job, after that its up to others to continue it.

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Added on January 13, 2012, 10:26 amnot my blogs,but my friend's blog, n always sharing something there.

This post has been edited by mat79: Jan 13 2012, 10:26 AM

campro is under seng (small engine)project which is undertaken by lotus, and it took 2 years to develop it which comprises 2 variant 1.3 n 1.6 using same engine design for 2 displacements to save cost,and it already cost them nearly 2 billions. It is in lotus proactive magazine,but need to search an old one.

It is develop to accept cps n vim tech,but dunno why tm introduce it too early before cps n vim been coorporate into it, but old story,nothing much can do.

While cfe is under pheonix project which started on 2008,which supposed to develop cfe together with new trans(during that time, beside manual,they opt for 5at,6at, twin clutch n cvt,and at last,they choose cvt due to cost versus performance), and the idea of iafm+ originally came from the engineer that involve with developing cfe. They mentioned that why not create an n/a variant from cfe,which they believe they can do that within the same budget.

And there are family y engine program for future engine, but since it too costly n need colloboration to reduce development cost, it is still pending,but initial work has been done. Since prtn has new owner,dunno whether thid project will continue or not. Initially plan to produce 1.2,1.5 n 1.8 gdi engine with twin pulse turbo.

Since colloboration with mmc still not finalised,n prtn has new owner,so hopefully,if everything run according to plan.maybe in 2014@2015 we can se this project being fruitful,but for the moment,it is just only a plan.

Everything need money,hopefully new owner can provide that if they want prtn to improve.

Hybrid project is already run, but many things need to workout before release to masses. They are really careful nowadays coz dont want trouble in the future.

Even p321a,it was table at the same time during development of exora. The initial stage of design n engeneering already slowly done during that time. And the original design send out to italdesign coz dsz want prtn to be a serious car maker,even many idea from pwrtrain comes from dr wolfgang(ex bmw man) himself,and p321a is also under him. Thats why getrag n punch been selected as trans supplier coz they did suply trans to bmw before. Many that involve in this project also have done work with bmw before.

Sorry, too much off topic.

for no 1, i think it is due to wheel balancing. If it is wheel balancing,just kauw tim with ur sales person, ask him or her to pay it for u if u r doing it outside coz not all sc offered balancing n allignment service,just remember,its normal for tyre shop ask u to do allignment also, do allignment is ok, but just ignore if they ask u to change chamber nut. Ask them to adjust right n left toe to zero,and if they r lazy(they will answer cannot, road surface is not flat, need to adjust negative n yadayada), ask them to adjust total toe zero. And just ask sales person to pay it all.

If it is due to tyre problem, go to sc to ask for replacement.

No 2, it is normal,but actually slower compare to previous cps coz the hood already has sound insulator. Just check whether yours come with it or not,coz only bold cfe has it, so i presume urs is bold cfe.

No 3,its normal for campro based engine. It is cooling period,depend on situation. Just remember to use 100% original coolant for campro based engine,dont mix with water@use ordinary coolant. And it only need to flush every 30@40k(check service manual), n remember to send it to branch sc coz flushing n refilling new coolant is really tedious,n really important that they are doing it properly coz it will lead to big problem,such engine overheating n ruin ur internal engine parts.
Periodically checking the coolant level so that will notice whether any leakage happen coz normally coolant level wont reduce in short period,if reduce,just a little bit before u flush it at 40k.

And bold premium already come with tinting, why u want to tint?if still want to change tint, remember to peel off the old one coz if double tinting @ side windows can cause u lost ur 10 years power windows warranty. However,vkool,aircool, ecotint n etc are good tint, depend on ur budget,still many good tinting out there,depend on ur budget.

Hopefully u just change the head unit without tampering any wire inside coz tampering can cause u loosing the warranty on some electronic parts. Better check urs owner manual.

Iafm+ already used in flx n flx se. They are many changes,already mentioned before, iafm+ engine derived from cfe engine with all improvement same as cfe without those related to vvt n turbo unit,iafm unit still the same,just improvement on material used n the flap/butterfly, and iafm+ using 32bit easyu torque based ecu regardless manual@cvt,compare to old one(except persona elegance)16bit ems700 load based ecu,n with 100% new perimeters n calibrations.

And if u want to get better fc in town,dont drive more than 2k rpm(during turbine unit statrt operation), n dont worry about pickup(torque) coz due vvt n other improvements, at 1.5k rpm,cfe torque is already exceed maximum torque of cps@4.5k rpm n i know its hard to cntrl them due to turbo feeling,but u can actually coz u already can speed up to 80kmh++ below 2k rpm.

These are being told by the engineers.

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Added on January 23, 2012, 2:35 amactually running radiator fan is not really weird, some conti engines have the same function :-). Savvy renault based engine also has the same function.

Have to agree that with loudness, but wait untill you hear prince engine compressor n radiator fan sound in pug 308 :-), i think u will run away,not ur daughter. But its good to have silent engine. For me,toyota is the best in term of slow engine sound.

N agree also bout saga sound dampening,wish could be better inside.

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Added on January 23, 2012, 2:50 amahh,forgot to mentioned, dont engage sat mode if want to get better fc coz run in full cvt mode is better than engaging sat. N always check ur secondary blower controller,just used it when needed, normally if fully occupied, coz can save a little bit fc. I think front ac vent is just enough even for 2nd row unless during really hot weather. And dont forget the temperature control is diff, to the left is more cooling(full blue doted), to the right is less cooling(empty white circle)(if they dont change the control unit from previous one)

This post has been edited by mat79: Jan 23 2012, 02:50 AM

i dunno whether they can do that coz adding sunroof need to undergo another rolling test crash test which is costly to do. Maybe for exora replacement in the future. Already suggested to them, but whether it will have it or not,i dont have the power to influence them.

Sat is stepped auto transmission. For saga cvt vt2 6 speed, for bold n future p321a cvt vt3 7 speed. Its just simulation by giving the trans fixed predetermined ratio, it quite lazy in that mode coz it is wet clutch based compare to toyota altis dual vvti cvt which is torque converter based. Better to stick to full cvt, D mode, but if u want more power,just slot to L (sport mode), but i think for cfe, u dont need that unless u r in fast n furious mode(darah muda) :-).

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Added on January 23, 2012, 7:13 pmah, most important part to mentioned, dont treat cvt as conv auto during emergency or u will ruin ur cvt trans. Please refer to owner's manual what u need to do incase of engine breakdown@batery 'kong' situation. Dont push start,push@tow ur car even in N@free gear,there is a special button u need to push before u can push ur car aside during emergency. Refer to owner's manual. Its apply to all prtn cvt trans car.

This post has been edited by mat79: Jan 23 2012, 07:13 PM

q1&q2,as being informermed,yes u can,it will not burn the trans,but it will burn fuel more than D.

Q3,push start,cannot,but jump start,can, just remember to connect the -negative cable to body@any metal for earthing. Dont connect negative to negative batery during cable jump start except u r running carburator car.

But u can push the car aside to safety after push the unlock button at gear console.

And for upgrading ecu,iafm+ is totally different thing compare to iafm. Even upgrading like say o

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Added on January 24, 2012, 1:11 amfree upgrading, i dunno coz i think such performance upgrade is never been done freely by any manufacturer. Unless ecu update@reflash. Not changing the whole ecu n wiring unit involve. But elegance is not iafm+. Campro iafm n campro iafm+ is diff unit, not exactly 100% diff,but around 50% part is new.calibration also diff to suit the engine.

This post has been edited by mat79: Jan 24 2012, 01:11 AM

as been mentioned earlier, dont wait until the fuel warning blink then refueling,its better refueling when its already at the last bar of fuel. Practising late refuelling especially when the fuel nearly empty(already long time fuel light warning) can cause u ur fuel pump. Dunno what about u, maybe diff prob.

But if u mentioned about waja fuel pump probs, that is the reason. I know coz i'm using waja since 2007 until now, no prob on fuel pump,just do like as i mentioned, everytime when the fuel left only 1 bar,already refuelling. The reason,when the fuel tank is dry up,fuel pump will suck to much air that cause the motor to overheating and then kaput.

One more thing,always change ur fuel filter at 40k.

Cfe, for the moment,no mt, maybe when p322a come out,it will mate with getrag 6mt.

have to agree with u, unless they pour in diff viciousity like 20w or 15w. I think even with 10w its not really a problem. I just thinking that maybe previously they pour in maybe mineral 20w to ur car, so, make it hard to start coz too thick,especially during cold start,n mineral is not really suitable for new car. Remember one blm have problem really bad fc due to sc pour in 20w mineral oil.

The minimum shud be 10w30 for campro based engine. Stupid sc. By the way, i recommend u use fully syn 5w 30 @ 5w 40 which is not that expensive such penzoil@bardhal, around rm100 only for 4l oil. It is not the best fully syn available in market,but justify its price n suitable for 10k service interval. Save little fc too. Buy it own ur own,dont rely on sc to provide u coz sometimes they used barrel oil.

Maybe some oil has spill to the crank sensor that make it give out wrong input to ecu during start. If still not spoil,just clean it up,and u shud be ok. Overfilling engine oil also can cause the problem.

Check ur oil level so that it shud not more than max level. Since they mentioned already change the oil,check whether the oil is still in clear golden color. check if any oil leak@spill around the engine coz by overfilling. Then,if ok,then i think it shud not be a problem. Sometimes hate the young foreman that service ur car like sh*t, untidy n rush to do the job.

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Added on January 28, 2012, 1:38 ammaybe somebody in k.l can help u. Personal experience,dont go to batu caves prtn sc, really bad service. Thats my experience few years back. By the way,im not in k.l. Maybe can search from other forum such blm@persona forum or just join exora owners club, they are many members that can help u out.

This post has been edited by mat79: Jan 28 2012, 01:38 AM

em, will ask them later about auto wind up for exora, about oil change, just follow manufacturers recommendation coz already mentioned before, diff engine,diff maintenance,they are the one who give u the warranty. Original oil filter which available at prtn sc can last more than 10k km, thats why those using fully can extend to 10k km service interval. But remember, they are a lot of immitation n fakes oil filter out there but really looks like original. So,becarefull. The easiest way is buy at prtn parts centre even servicing outside. They are many cases mentioning using original parts, but upon inspection,it is just immitation part.
If talking about oil alone, have the opportunity mingle with one manager of petronas dagangan,he mentioned, syntium 5000,the oil can last up to 35000km before oil change needed, but thats for oil alone, not based on engine requirements.

As been mentioned, campro based engine need weston 936 based coolant which also been used by many europe based engine. What u buy at prtn already in correct concentration,so,no need to add water. Just dont buy diff coolant coz its not designed for campro based engine unless u know.

Campro engine is quite hot, u can know it by touching the hood after driving it in town driving. Correct engine oil n coolant is really crucial to maintain it.

Yup,u can follow any recommendation outside manufacturers recomendation, but remember,do it at ur own risk. Warranty will be invalid. Thats all. If u think u can bear that, so,its not a problem. But many cases happened that not following manufacturers recommendations,like servicing outside, end up claiming to sc for warranty. Previously they give it out, but since many problems also come out due to that reasons,so now they become stricter. To be fair,some of the problems also come from them(prtn), thats why they give out warranty,some also come from end user, which we ourselves shud be blame at.

I agree that they have problems previously on fit n finish,they tried to be better for exora, where exora has minimum probs compare to previous model, n dsz promised to reduce it in upcoming product. It really hard actually for him to do it alone, hopefully the teams will follow his will.

But for me,im quite lucky, also my family, no prob for pwr windows. My waja has a little prob on assembly causing sound from my absorber,due to the screw is untighten properly, not tight enough,and that was rectify during my first service in 2007, and now touch wood. Thats is during proton dark ages, and i blame them on that, but luckily the sc is professional enough to solve the prob.

Also seen alot of improvement on my father saga blm fit n finish compare to my savvy, which share many of its part. Same as exora, first launch model n now, can see the fit n finish are being better,even when using same design interior albeit diff plastic material n color starting mc1.

Fit n finish is the main problem in prtn cars which dsz himself also do not deny it, which he put more focus on that since day 1, and hopefully the upcoming model will be better, which i believe it will be if he continue in prtn,hopefully yes, still waiting for the news, really dunno what will happen if somebody else will replace him.

I know that he is the pain in the a** for some in prtn coz he is really strict person,always put quality ahead from other, but thats a good thing right unless somebody has diff view about quality.

Even many hate him(maybe some vendors, workers n malaysian),but i really adore him coz i know,it is not an easy job for him to turn around proton from loosing money to be profitable with many limitations to be adhere.

Sorry too much off topic,will be busy onwards, so, i'll be off a while.

for oil change,as long as using correct viciousity as recommended, its ok. Just fully syn is a better option n u can prolong ur service interval to 10k km. As many times mentioned, take of ur coolant,then u'll be ok. For brake oil,better used dot 4, not that expensive.

Em, since using die cast iron block, need to break in properly to ensure all the oil flow properly to all block n cylinder. After 5k, fc will be better, after 10k, shud be even better, but dont expect superb fc as small compact car.

The get the most efficient fc in town driving, drive below 2k rpm,b4 turbine start to spin coz when it start, af ratio will be diff, more fuel need to be injected to get all the power. This being told officially by pwrtrain from prtn.

Dont worry about under torque coz at 1.5k rpm, cfe torque already surpass max torque of cps. Hope this info will help u to extract most efficient fc in town driving. Its up to ur right foot. Learn to control the throttle,coz i know, its hard to insist the power when rpm reach 2k rpm onwards, so up to u, if want get good fc, drive below 2k rpm, if dun really care too much on fc, up to ur mood :-), but still better than cps based exora when still new

wow,u r driving 2-3k rpm on town :-), so fast meh. Actually, u r forcing the engine to go beyond 120kmh on town. Need to learn how to adapt cvt,then ull get better fc, eventhough it is normal to get high fc for campro based engine before 5k service.

Try to drive below 2k rpm in town coz it is enough to propel the mpv. 2k rpm is already more than 90kmh. Punch cvt has economy mode which activate when u driving engine rpm at speed below 80kmh, meaning below 2k rpm(sat mode dont have economy mode,so avoid sat). Add, turbine spooling at 2k rpm causing the af ratio change is bigger due to more air,need more fuel to burn for complete combustion.
Just depend on intake vvt when driving around town which advancing below 2k rpm, which already good enough for town driving. Remember,@1.5k rpm, cfe produce more torque than cps@4.5krpm, so,no need to worry. Only go region beyond 2k rpm when needed.

Learn to press the pedal gradually. Let the rpm rise gradually, but of course,hard to resist beyond 2k rpm when driving even in town.

tq bro,

to bro cracksys, i dont say that exora bold has 1 gear only, what i said that is the engine speed, revolution per minute.

Cvt has infinte ratio coz using belt attach to pulley,its actually not real ratio, but still call as ratio since still has min n max ratio.

It can be more than 7, but too much step not really comfy if u choose to drive it manually in town if applicable.

Application cvt n conv at is quite diff. Thats why u need to control it. While in normal at u can choose to rev lower gear with high rpm to achieve better torque, while cvt already give u optimum torque at designated rpm, regardless which ratio it used. U already get full n flat torque when u step the throttle at 2k rpm in bold cfe case, but if choose sat(simulation), the torque will rise up n down depend on rpm, so u loose power n torque everytime it slot in diff gear. Thats why understanding how cvt operated, can make u achieve better fc, n better power.

Such in flx se, max torque is around 4k rpm, so,just for overtaking purpose,speed below 140kmh, rev up to 4k rpm is enough than pedal to metal coz max torque is at 4k rpm, n u can achieve up to 140kmh at 4k rpm. Meaning that u can do almost same century sprint time rev to 4k rpm n pedal to metal. While rev 4k rpm given u better torque than pedal to metal coz it is the optimum torque to power,unless u want to speed up beyond 140kmh, pedal to metal rule is needed. Remember, torque is pulling power which u need the most for overtaking,especially during full load condition while hp more to achieving top speed.

is it in sat mode@cvt mode? If in sat mode,its gear is shifting down during that rpm coz it is in sat n its normal, but its not supposed to be loud. In full cvt,of course cvt will have a little sound(cvt sound) due to belt, but it supposed to be unnoticable. But if its too loud,better send for checking during service(if not service yet),if already, send it for checking.

:-),when u accel 0-80kmh in town,no need to press to 2k rm, 1.5-1.8k rpm is just enough n nice. When overtake@climbing(if need speed below 100kmh n i believe climbing car park is slower than 80kmh rite) 2k rpm is just enough coz not only 2k rpm at 90kmh++ more than enough for car park climbing, u also already generate max torque, the same as 2.5k@3k rpm, the only diff is the hp, while climbing at slow speed, no need much hp,just need more torque. Just drive@2k rpm if climbing slowly. For overtaking the same thing, if only need to overtake,speed below 90kmh, 2k rpm is enough,unless u r overtaking at highways which speed beyond 100kmh,so 2.5k-3k rpm is just enough. Remember,hp is about how high speed u need,torque is pulling power.
Learning to adapt cvt perfectly,not only give u better fc,but better power. Remember,the higher hp,the higher fuel need to inject to combustion chamber, so fc will be higher. Only used the high hp when needed n avoid sat coz it coz ur fc higher.
I dont think u need to slot to L@sport mode to overtake in cfe exora, but if u r in boy racer mode,u can try out the power by slotting to L, the throttle will be sharpen n rpm rise by 20% more compare to d mode means early high hp will achieve compare to d mode.

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Added on February 24, 2012, 12:52 pm:-),when u accel 0-80kmh in town,no need to press to 2k rm, 1.5-1.8k rpm is just enough n nice. When overtake@climbing(if need speed below 100kmh n i believe climbing car park is slower than 80kmh rite) 2k rpm is just enough coz not only 2k rpm at 90kmh++ more than enough for car park climbing, u also already generate max torque, the same as 2.5k@3k rpm, the only diff is the hp, while climbing at slow speed, no need much hp,just need more torque. Just drive@2k rpm if climbing slowly. For overtaking the same thing, if only need to overtake,speed below 90kmh, 2k rpm is enough,unless u r overtaking at highways which speed beyond 100kmh,so 2.5k-3k rpm is just enough. Remember,hp is about how high speed u need,torque is pulling power.
Learning to adapt cvt perfectly,not only give u better fc,but better power. Remember,the higher hp,the higher fuel need to inject to combustion chamber, so fc will be higher. Only used the high hp when needed n avoid sat coz it coz ur fc higher.
I dont think u need to slot to L@sport mode to overtake in cfe exora, but if u r in boy racer mode,u can try out the power by slotting to L, the throttle will be sharpen n rpm rise by 20% more compare to d mode means early high hp will achieve compare to d mode.

In cntrl environment,of course exora cos has better fc than cfe due to low hp at rpm@90kmh,but that is cntrl environment.

In the real world, cfe is better than cps due to high torque n cvt application. The only thing u need is to adapt to cvt gbox, n make use of advantage having cvvt on cfe during town driving.having turbine helping on climbing n overtake on highways.

This post has been edited by mat79: Feb 24 2012, 12:52 PM

do u feel juddering when applying brakes at high speed. I think it is due to abs, unless without abs, the wheel will lock faster coz abs doesnt lock the brakes in full(feels like less bite), but its only the feeling.

But then, if not, maybe checking is needed.

which means around the same km as livina 1.6@rm70