I personally do not care which is the best league in the world. The fact that I don't support the best team in the world says it all.

I'll keep my opinion relevant to the thread title which states that Premiership teams cannot compete which I totally disagree with. English teams have been in and about the semi-final stage in recent years no doubt due in part to the fact that it has become more attractive to quality footballers, especially from South America. Prior to Juninho joining Middlesborough, I can't recall which was the last capped South American player to come to England. Ossie Ardiles? Gone are the days where players like Zola, Vialli, Gullit or Klinsmann came to England to end their careers with top sides. Now even smaller English clubs have the same appeal. Bolton did pretty well after securing 'has beens' in Djorkaeff, JJ Okocha, Ivan Campo and even Fernando Hierro. Now top sides like Man Utd and Chelsea are able to sign class A footballers in their prime. Heck, even Fulham managed to sign Edwin Van Der Sar when the Dutchman was still in his prime. All this indicates that the Premiership has come a long way in terms of appeal, for players and investors. Premiership games are scheduled to cater for the Asian market unlike their counterparts which in my opinion, is good planning. Then again, the 3pm sun in England isn't exactly as intense as the 3pm sun in Spain is it? Anyway, my point is the notion suggesting English sides cannot compete in Europe just because the Manchester teams got knocked out this season is ridiculous, or are we only talking about this season?

In recent years even "lowly" Liverpool have won the Champions League once and reached the final on another occasion. I also think that suggesting a club like Barcelona can beat any Premiership side just because they've got the better of Man Utd on two occasions in recent times is inaccurate. First, let me say that I have full respect for Barcelona, I think you guys play really attractive football and Pep Guardiola has done a great job. However, you can be beaten with the right tactics. Liverpool did the unthinkable by beating you 2-1 at the Nou Camp. Yes, we did employ negative tactics but one would be foolish to suggest that a distinctively average looking Liverpool side could beat you at home playing your brand of football. It's easy to criticise us now but if you were us, would you have come to the Nou Camp to attack knowing we still had the 2nd leg to play at Anfield? We did however prove that by playing positive football, we could be a team to be reckoned with. In March 2009, we came out to play and beat Real Madrid 4-0. Now I'm just speaking from a Liverpool perspective of course and we've only come close to winning the Premiership once in the past decade. Even Fulham who are alien to Europe thrashed Juventus in March 2010. Spurs beat then defending champions Inter Milan and topped their group in the same year. Do note that I'm not saying one is better than the other which is what this thread is looking like right now, I'm saying English clubs can compete. The fact that Liverpool aren't in Europe isn't because we got knocked out of the competition, it's because we failed to qualify which doesn't mean we can't be competitive in Europe. In 2006 we only qualified by virtue of being defending Champions when we contrived to finishing behind Everton and although we would get knocked out by Benfica, we managed to top a group containing Chelsea, Real Betis and Anderlecht. So don't judge how well a club will do in Europe purely on their domestic league standing.

Best league in the world? Well I'd have to say that in my opinion, it would have to be the most competitive league in the world. For that, one only has to look at how many different sides have won their domestic leagues over the past say, 10 years? It isn't about the best players for me. Rangers could sign Ronaldo but that would only make the SPL even more one sided.

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Added on December 10, 2011, 9:01 amHere's the flaw in his piece though. It's based largely on this season. Also you can't really look at the England national team and although I agree they'd struggle to make it out of their group in Euro 2012, this has no bearing whatsoever over how English sides will do in Europe. I am no fan of England for I think they are overrated but Premiership sides are multinational. I mean the last Champions League final was contested between a Spanish and English club.

Can't really argue about the being defensively naive part. The mancs have looked vulnerable at the back even with the inclusion of Phil Jones. I will say this though. Having a bad defence just means you need a better offense. Look at the Brazil of old. In more recent times did anyone know that whilst Spurs conceded 11 goals in the Champions League last season during the group stages, they scored 18 goals? More than any other team.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Dec 10 2011, 09:08 AM

"Used to"? Just last season Man Utd made the final. Are attention spans really that short these days. I'd agree if you told me English clubs haven't competed in the last decade.

I'm not butthurt dude, I'm just wondering how people define, "compete"? Competing means you're there and abouts year in, year out. Doesn't mean you have to win it. Now if you were a Bulgarian club for example, then you aren't being competitive. The fact that there are two English clubs in the next round suggests that they are still competing and the fact that English clubs have been through to the latter stages of the knockout rounds suggest that they are still competitive. Is anyone suggesting that clubs like Ajax, Marseille, and Lyon aren't competitive? Sure no one expects them to win the trophy, but they are still hard to play against every year.

Once again, I'm not here to advocate that English clubs are better, because I don't really bother. I watch the Premiership and if someone else thinks it's crap, that's their opinion. I can't however fathom why people would think English clubs aren't competitive though? Would we be having this conversation last season, or are we only having it because the Manchester clubs were knocked out this year?

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Dec 10 2011, 12:15 PM

Yes but you can't then say that Spanish clubs are not competitive and English clubs rule Europe just because it happened once. Like I said earlier as well, I think comments like "no longer being competitive", need to take into account a longer time frame. Just as Man City won't win the Champions League overnight despite spending massive mulah, clubs from a particular league won't suddenly disappear from Europe.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Dec 10 2011, 12:25 PM

I think it's absurd. I'd never root for my rival. I'm surprised you've come across such people because I don't know any Liverpool fan who would root for Man Utd.

Well in my case I started watching football because of Liverpool so you won't catch me cheering any of our rivals on.

In that case, I'd actually question is he is an avid fan?

In the case of England's top two sides being knocked out, I actually think it's a complement to the Premiership, that the next 2 ranked sides progressed. Shows strength in depth no?

An assumption at best. So Barca and Real are the best teams in the world because they play in the best league in the world. I don't disagree nor do I agree. Man Utd and Liverpool are in comparison, lesser teams, ability wise anyway because the Premiership has less quality teams. So when was the last time any Spanish side other than Real or Barca made the finals, or semi finals of the Champions League?

My point is there is no logical explanation to suggest that either Spanish side wont be as good as they are had they played in the Premiership. If there is, I'd like to hear it.

I like competitive leagues. The problem with the La Liga is the disparity when it comes to wealth between Barca, Real and the rest of the league. Like I said earlier, with the exception of Real and Barca, when was the last time another Spanish side entered the Champions League final or semi-finals (to keep in context of this thread title)? It's true that even in England, Man Utd have dominated for the past 2 decades but in the context of Europe, 4 different sides have reached the final in the last decade.

Best league? Well being competitive is one, and I suppose the one that garners the most interest and hype, and at the moment the Premiership is lightyears ahead of anyone else in that aspect. That being said, I don't see why anyone wants to argue which league is best. I mean you watch what you want to watch la.

Dude I listen to logic and common sense regardless of affiliation. I've flamed my fair share of Liverpool fans as well

I know dude, wasnt suggesting that you were.