Forumer you are complaining against: FrogCat

Item being sold/bought: 25 PS3 games

Original thread link: Dun have

Date of transaction: 25 ~ 26 Nov

Details of the complaint : I bought 25 games off him,

At first the deal was good, after that got some problems

I will update this thread with the screenshots


Summary :

I bought 25 games, 2 games I thought come with full package but he dun wan to give the full package.

Eye Of Judgment

Then 1 Game also got scratch but I don't mind that cuz it was my fault for not checking during COD but Eye Of Judgement He said he will bring the cards/mat on our next COD cuz he forgot it....

I was ok that time...

But today he saying he cannot give me the cards , we only deal for the game and saying will give 34 cards only , nothing else.

So I said I don't want it anymore , either you can refund the money to me or trade with other game....

then he saying I will trade it but during our next deal in that he marked several games that I have to buy must...

like 30 of the games , and most of them I already have.....

he saying he reserved all games for me actually you can check his signature that he is still selling lots of games....

he wants me to buy all games off him.....

at first I offered RMxxxxx for all games from him. but he disagreed. he marked some games as Red that I cannot buy or he not willing to sell..

if he dun wan to sell some games then I reserve the right not to buy some games from him right ?

but He don't want to solve the first batch problem and asking me to buy 2nd batch, who in the right mind will buy more from an Ill-Mannered Seller....

This post has been edited by tashfinsheikh: Dec 3 2011, 02:42 PM

Pls show the evidence, & I will show everything to prove u wrong, go ahead.

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Added on December 3, 2011, 2:47 pmFinish creating the story ady? Once done pls highlight, my turn next.

This post has been edited by Frogcat: Dec 3 2011, 02:47 PM

Alright, as promise, I uploaded tons of prove for the public to judge, pls allow me to explain on what bro tashfinsheikh complaint in the 1st place (with screen capture).

Screen capture from what he complaint
Picture 1


Picture 2


Picture 3


Picture 4


Start from here, every screen shot I captured from MSN history, green box = tashfinsheikh, red box = Frogcat, with simple explanation.

About The Eye Of Judgment


Follow by the 25 titles


Support pictures, taken from his rental thread (3 pics).


This post has been edited by Frogcat: Dec 4 2011, 04:59 AM

Conversation between me & him, I try to cut it short, I'm happy if everyone can read everything, else just read those highlighted color box (3 pics).


From here onwards, I won't provide any explanation, read & judge by yourself, y I said he's a cheating & lying to me at the same time, even from the start of our deal (5 pics).


If anyone need me to provide any further information, pls do so, I still can provide plenty, let's just wait for what bro tashfinsheikh gonna explain 1st.

This post has been edited by Frogcat: Dec 4 2011, 05:07 AM

Dont have much time to read everything, sorry.

But, i can see that frog has a stronger evidence.

But, frog, please understand that it is not considered FFK if somebody tell you that he cant COD by telling u reasons.
If he didnt inform you that he cant turn out and you waited there for the whole day, then only it is considered FFK.

I believe that there are some misunderstandings.
Tashfinsheikh brother is an honest buyer. I dealed with him previously.

why you insist him to buy all your games?

If you read, you will notice he always give reason when he need to grab everything at once, & in the end, he said the magic word, "I won't get those I'm not interested with", the ffk intention was there, clear enough, he just use methods to push it away.

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Added on December 4, 2011, 10:12 amCause this is our understanding, for giving him RM60 each, he need to grab everything available at once, by bulk, & he promise to do that, not I insist him to.

If you read the evidence, that's very clear stated.

This post has been edited by Frogcat: Dec 4 2011, 10:12 AM

I don't have that free time to quote every single sentence

All senior members & Respectable members , I humbly request that you read all the conversation and tell me where am I wrong/mistake ?
(to get all the conversation kindly PM me your email and I will forward that email to you so you can read and decide)

Eye of Judgment comes with full set, I never saw anyone selling the game only and he also didn't said that he will sell me the game without any acc.

He only said that he won't give me one deck only and he will give me one. he didn't said anything about acc. and that game as everyone knows is useless without acc.

I told him tomorrow I won't be able to come because my father flight got delayed and he has not yet returned..... and he said that I am breaking promise
I said that lets wait till next week you collect some more games so I can buy from you and he started with his breaking promise stuff.....

and for the upper part that he says I removed it , it was bcz a respectable member shahreza2000 told me it is not good to post the amount and he read the whole conversation edi .

and for the lowballing part , it is not lowballing it is an offer and lum sum prices are always like that.....

and I offered him and he rejected it so whats the problem about that ?

and one MORE THING, I don't like his rude behavior

and now I clearly write to everyone to see that I won't buy anything anymore from him anymore cuz of he is making a fuss about nothing.... (and rude behavior also)

He thinks I am young and trying to force/pressurize me

Show everything transparent, why have to deal thru PM or email? If you have any evidence to prove u rite, show it (as in your 1st post, you said you gonna show it, why scare now?)

You still stick with the EOJ full set thing, & avoid to answer why u don't want to get the 2nd batch, even I said I wan to come to ur house to COD with u, u still gave excuses like money is with your father, whatever you wan to explain, show the evidence you promise to the public 1st, don't talk further & try to redirect ppl to other places.

I still have many evidence in hand, you still pretend, I won't give face any further..... 1st, stand out & face me like a man, show your so called evidence, like I agree to give whole set of EOJ but i didn't, show it.

Rude behavior? I wonder will anyone still talk nicely to the person who cheated him, pls don't talk nonsense & prove with your evidences.

i suggest u guys to put full conversation. Delete necessary part like phone numbers and email addresses.

at first its the EOJ issue and frogcat has stressed out about it 1st. Its time for further clarification.

I don't want to deal with you further just tell me how to solve the EOJ issue...

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Added on December 4, 2011, 3:42 pmlater when my father comes back I will scan and send you the ticket , happy ?

or you want to call my father i can give you his phone no. to prove it...


This post has been edited by tashfinsheikh: Dec 4 2011, 03:42 PM

Pls post it here. No need to PM.

my oppinion is

to TS (tashfinsheikh),
please stop involving your parents in this matter...

it's you who decide to make a deal with the seller(Frogcat)
even though the "offer" for whole bulk is made by seller
it's YOU who decide to make this deal...NOT your PARENTS..
and why after even seller offer to come to your house for COD the rest...
you still gave some other excuses?? if you honestly want to purchase the rest...why NOT??
and yahhh...if i'm the seller also i will be a little bit suspicious about your behaviour....
like you just wanted to take advantage saying that you want to purchase the whole bulk for a "interactive" price...
in fact you just wanted to buy some of the games....

and to Frogcat,
are those EOJ games you sell cames with the acc???
because i don't see any ANSWER about it...like TS requested
i only see 1 card or 2 card...
( sorry didn't know much about this games so i wouldn't know exactly what you guys talking about )
if it didn't come with full acc...you SHOULD told him in the first place...
and i do encourage you to take TS mom and dad phone number....
yeah...it's "easier" to deal with fully grown up adult...

anyway hope you guys solve your problem
because what i see is this matter is pretty much SOLVEABLE..
unlike many case which involve scamming...
this just misunderstanding...

This post has been edited by budakdegilz: Dec 4 2011, 06:54 PM

First of all RM60 is not a really wow price for a bulk order that consist of mostly old games....

and involving my parents, man you are my parents have the money not me, and his flight got delayed till next week, that day of COD I told got some transaction limit issue , didnt I ? and the next day my father was suppose to come but he was not able to come cuz he got some business issues...its a normal thing nothing to make a fuss about....

he only have 30~ games for yesterday COD and I said lets wait till next week so you can gather more games and do COD that time

and I wanted to grab everything, his list got 240+ games and now the list consist of 134 games only (i bought 25 only)

he is allowed to take some games out , he is allowed to sell games, his sales thread is still up & running

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Added on December 4, 2011, 6:59 pmI will try to post here , the chat is a bit too long

This post has been edited by tashfinsheikh: Dec 4 2011, 06:59 PM

i do have another question....
have you ask seller to list out those 240+ games for you if you really wanted to purchase all???

by the way if rm60 is not a WOW price...
but still you willing to paid it???
it's you own FAULT actually to take those offer from seller...
NOT seller fault...
by the way let's wait for seller answer regarding those EOJ acc...

and if seller willing to screenshot every conversation between 2 of you...
why not you???TOO LONG you say???
haiyaa boy....
even me as 3rd party WILLING to read all those conversation posted by seller....
and this is what you reply....
seems that is NO POINT any of us(forummer) to HELP you....
because you didn't help yourself first.....

p/s:
geramnye aku...aku nak tolong boleh balas camni plak!!!
kang aku post something flare kang...
aku jugak kena balik

This post has been edited by budakdegilz: Dec 4 2011, 07:25 PM

I will post the whole conversation but it is too long , but still I will post the conversation as you requested it

I'm so glad someone willing to read everything I uploaded, thanks bro...

Nope, I did mention tat 1 game with cards, another without, & I didn't stated the game come with anything, just games, if with acc, I will stated clearly, I practice to state everything clearly, as anyone can check on my rental thread, the info I provided, is the most completed at lowyat (for PS3 rental thread, to compare to other ppl who provide this services), I'm proud to say that.

He can always ask, tat's nothing wrong to check & confirm with me, he asked whether it come with cards, I answered clearly, I can say no & keep the cards, & he can tell me since only come with cards, he decided just skip this 2 titles, nothing wrong, & I will understand as well.

Another thing, when he complaint about EOJ not getting extra acc, I agreed to let him exchange with other games, & why he insist just to exchange the game, & not getting the so called 2nd batch (which actually the 1st batch) at the same time? Why so many excuses? Mother, Father, Money, Places... bla bla bla...

I did told him upfront as well, some of the game will be more then RM60, I will upload this pic 1st (pls check spoiler), will prepare more conversation between us later. This pic, I mentioned some games will be slightly higher, like ea sports active, cause the game come with acc.... new ppl sell at RM125 (R3), used I'm not sure, but definitely not RM60. EOJ if anyone still can find in the market, standard & original price will be RM300 (R1), some fried till very high, I sold 1 used set to 1 customer at RM180 this year. I saw ppl selling RM150 too, I even bought RM300 with some extra cards with everything in used b4, I have witness on this transaction as well. & now this fella come & try to buy it for RM60, & hope to get everything, there's no conversation break down between us, I can assure that by showing more evidences too (if someone willing to read), to prove that he don't read properly, that's why I have to keep mention everything again & again at MSN, just to remind him.



Ok, I told everything upfront & yet he wants the cards, so I said RM80, nothing wrong, he don't even care & insist to get it at RM60, & I give him for free, I'm quite a generous man I can say.

Oh ya, another thing, I uploaded quite many evidences & he don't even have one, why?

Where is the acc (so called) clearly stated Acc in your document , and I checked your rental thread there

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Added on December 4, 2011, 9:58 pmI used this pic as reference in what I should get :



and everywhere people are selling the whole package , never saw anyone selling a game that cannot be played without the acc

This post has been edited by tashfinsheikh: Dec 4 2011, 09:59 PM

These are the documents that states that he started with 244 games when we started the deal and now he has 136 left

if he wanted to sell all of them to me , why he sold to other people ?

I bought 25 games from him


Attached File(s)
 Game_List.doc ( 41.5k ) Number of downloads: 18
 Game_List_4_.doc ( 25.5k ) Number of downloads: 11

hmmm... i've read everything..... from what i've read, i can see that the seller, Frogcat kept on mentioning about the trade, that what's included and the price and confirm and confirm again with the buyer. i'm not on anyone's side, but from my point of view, the buyer did agreed to buy everything from the seller... but after that EoJ incident, the buyer said that he doesn't want to buy everything because some games he already own it... that's not honest at all, because in the beginning you agreed to get everything, then said some you don't want because you already have it... and yea, please post the whole conversation here instead of PM-ing people... so that everyone here can read it... correct me if i made any mistake...

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Added on December 4, 2011, 10:10 pmhmm...i think what he meant was, if it comes with acc, he will stat that it comes with acc, if without acc, it will be just the game name... and FYI, clearly you have not search for the game clear enough...i've seen people selling EoJ game only, without the cards and the acc... and the price was like RM1xx.....

This post has been edited by Ace98: Dec 4 2011, 10:10 PM

I don't know what kind of evidence is this, you point that arrow to EA Sports Active, I just put the title, without stated anything means just selling the game, & I did mention again to you that some might be higher price, for sure you will ask why when I quote you, & I have to answer right? If I quote RM80, surely come with acc, if not, RM60, ofcoz u can check with me again about the acc, & skip this title if without any acc, fair enough.

Pls don't point something which won't help to support what you try to prove & complaint, go back to the EOJ related statement & point out my mistake, that should be the way.



You don't understand english is't? I meant I don't wan to bargain further coz of that extra RM20, which mean pretty clear that I'm gonna give you the cards for free.



Again what you trying to prove on this? The red color EOJ? Or the black color EOJ? If the red, I don't want to sell that, clear enough. If the black, just the title, as I din stated with ACC or any shit in there.



You are putting yourself in deep shit by pointed this out. Means you disagree in the beginning but yet u said you agree, so... your cheating intention in the 1st place stated clear enough.



I will put another ???? on this, what you trying to prove? Don't you have any stronger evidence? If you don't have pls admit you cheated & try to ffk me on the 2nd batch deal, don't pretend any further & this will kill yourself even faster, cause you are dishonest, you are a cheater yet no balls to admit, you even launch a dispute report on me 1st when u done something wrong, what kind of attitude & personality you have?

Yes, I'm extremely rude to such person like you, for sure, I believe everyone will do the same.

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Added on December 5, 2011, 1:40 amHey, you keep saying you want to buy from me yet you keep delaying, do you remember when you start saying that? & do you know how long I keep waiting until you bought the 1st batch? I have more evidences to prove on this man, don't create more things to put yourself in deep shit, I'm so happy you point another issue out now.

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Added on December 5, 2011, 1:44 amYou are extremely right bro, & thanks for reading the whole thing..... I have another prove with receipt that I bought this title & just the game only.

Receipt prove


This post has been edited by Frogcat: Dec 5 2011, 02:11 AM

You quoted me RM80 for EOJ , didn't you ? cheater

and I pointed it out that cuz you said this :








It's not for free my boi. I am paying








I thought it is your habit. You didn't wrote clearly that it doesn't come with anything except the game.




Stop with this cheating , cheating......

Stop with this , (you think I cheated you ) how did I cheated you ?

Got game's for RM60 and you can sell them for higher price ? that you mean ?

than come give me RM1500 back and I will return all of your games..... If I was cheating I won't clearly write this in here....

I cannot understand how am I cheating you , You didn't provided me the acc. you don't want also so you are cheating not me

I paid you and took the games not for free... so where is the cheating ?

Stop blabbering already old man.....

I am regretting dealing with you in the first place a rude old man.... I don't want to deal with you anymore.

Now I don't want any acc nor cards, gimme your address I will post both of your EOJ and you transfer RM120 to me or there is another method mentioned above we can do that ... if you think I am cheating lol I cannot brain this stupid statement that you post everytime

They stated it is game only, but you didn't stated it.

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Added on December 5, 2011, 3:02 amI have not cheated with him, so he cannot call me cheater and use any offensive words against me..


Please Mod kindly advise him to mind his language....

This post has been edited by tashfinsheikh: Dec 5 2011, 03:02 AM

I'm talking about EA Sports Active, not EOJ man. EA Sports Active new selling at RM125 (R3), if I sell used at RM80, still reasonable. EOJ new selling at RM300 or higher, you expect me to sell the used set at RM80? Pls think, & could you pls pls pls pls read properly at least once?

Let ppl see how childish & cunning you are & I'm not gonna argue again with the words mentioned above, I will clarify with this quote only....

I'm selling so many titles to you, should I list down every titles & put (game only) beside every titles? I bought the game from PA bcoz they are selling whole set & just the game only as option, so the receipt stated game only nothing wrong.

From now, pls answer to the public that why you agree to buy in the beginning & you disagree with lots of reason later, don't come & repeat stupid answer that I'm not exchange the EOJ with other games, which I prove I will change it as well.... ANSWER WHY TO THE PUBLIC, WHY YOU DISAGREE WITH REASONS IN LATER STAGE.

P.S. Pls handle this case with profession, because you started the report & complaint not me, & stop crying like a kid now, I won't let you run away so easily.

This post has been edited by Frogcat: Dec 5 2011, 09:11 AM

Just now you said , Didn't you you always clearly state everything you are selling ? and you are proud of that ?

and after every game you don't need to write anything but when it has acc you need to write that for sure.... or else it is full set... have you saw anyone selling a handphone and not writing (full set) or (handphone ) only ? they always write it, you are just covering your silly mistakes....

the thing is you don't want to solve the damn problem and now you are saying let the public decide it...

I don't want to deal with you anymore, bcz u know the reason, and you cannot force me to do anything...

and you were the one that post it here first and you started it by msn'ing me not me..... you wrote that I will report you to the fkk thread not me... you started with your foul language not me....

and for buy all games ? you didn't honored your words, why did you kept on selling games after starting deal with me and why are you still selling games on your topic ? when you want me to buy all of them ? PUBLIC PLEASE ANSWER THIS

Tomorrow I will post our whole conversation

This post has been edited by tashfinsheikh: Dec 5 2011, 03:33 AM

AKAKAKAKA, pls allowed me to laugh on what you just wrote just now. I will answer & show to the public why I sell some of the games away.

Our very 1st PM about this deal (5 pics).
Picture 1


Picture 2


Picture 3 (End Of Picture 2 & Begin Of Picture 4)


Picture 4


Picture 5


Then we start adding each other on MSN.

Dear friends, I guess I've done more then enough to prove what I should, pls help what you can, I spent so much time to highlight, capture, explain bcoz he launched this report 1st, I just want to protect my name that's all, I won't answer & wasting my time any further, until I have to, thanks for your reading & support.

This post has been edited by Frogcat: Dec 5 2011, 12:42 PM

Wow, taking a while to read all the conversation.

Based on the Seller's evidence and screen capture, it is quite promising that he want to sell the games in bulk as some of the games, he intend to keep or the rental fella haven't return yet.

The seller did provide the full list to the buyer. The buyer has to look thoroughly through it and stated what he want. From the buyer post, he stated want to buy all (one shot) since he know Seller want to close the rental service.

After all the PMs, it all stated when the EOJ didn't turn well and started to made some excuses from it.

One thing puzzle me about the ATM limit (forgive me if wrong). I thought can change it to max RM3K per day? If the buyer want to buy all at once shoot, which around RM10K+- , if his transaction limit is there, where he going to get the money? From parent?

Best advice is to get the money on hand first before making any deal. Otherwise if you getting the money late, then the deal will goes wrong/ugly. Try to think about both side, seller and buyer.

It is best of the buyer post the whole conversation. Otherwise we are sided to one side.

Pls allowed me to answer this question bro.

You can set the max withdraw per day to 5k, but the max withdraw each time is 1.5k, so... you can withdraw 3 times with 1.5k, & the 4th time with 500.

When he said 1.5k limit that time, I already have doubts, as that 1st batch actually come with 59 titles, x60 each will be RM3540, but I understand that he's also a seller so possible he ady withdrawn more then 3k during that day, that's why I agree to deal with 25 titles 1st..

If I may add something here...

Obviously, there were misunderstandings in this deal. One party thought he only wanted to buy some games that interest him, while another party thought he is going to sell everything all at one go. If you asked me now, logically, I will not buy 240+ games all at one. Plus they are all old games. Even if I wanted to buy the games to start rental business, I would prolly get 240+ copies of NEW games instead. That would give me a better business. And RM60 per copy isn't really a good price for 240+ copies of games. I bought one used copy of Black Ops for RM70.

And one thing that we should be considering here is that, there were no money exchange except for the games that already been purchased. There are no dispute in this case. Potential buyer stated that he is no longer interested in purchasing all the games as per seller understanding. I don't see any big deal with that. It is not that the buyer took all the games and didn't make any payment.

So, my suggestion is to close the case, and everyone should move on. Both are reputable seller/buyer here in LYN.

Here is our whole conversation as requested :

http://s779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/tashfinsheikh/

See there and you can see that he is pressurizing me into buying some games

I decided to decline due to such ridiculous terms....


This post has been edited by tashfinsheikh: Dec 5 2011, 04:25 PM

Could you pls keep it simple & nice? 95 pics you expect ppl to read it all? Even myself click until the 5th also feel wasting time ady.

Pls point out where I pressurizing, where's my bad.

Are you trying to do something which make ppl from tiring to help this case?

The 3 Terms & Conditions

Just posting the whole conversation first...
I will post that pic shortly

This post has been edited by tashfinsheikh: Dec 5 2011, 04:52 PM

After taking some time to read the whole conversation piece I can conlude the following so far :

1. Tash ask Frog to sell him the games / take over his rental business, and frog replied he will sell most (but not all). Since there was no reply, Frog continue business for 1 month (selling / renting), and later after almost a month Frog asked Tash whether Tash still wants to buy since got updates in Frog's PS3 games list.

2. When Tash want to buy all, Frog highlights that Frog can only sell by bulk because of reasons stated in Frog's PM list including games he likes to keep.

3. And then both discuss on MSN, and wrote down the list of games (I counted about 34 in the MSN but probably separately there is others). A pair of games is the Eye of Judgement (1 with accessory for RM 80 quoted by Frog and the other for RM 60 without accessory. From the MSN thread it looks like Tash offered to buy 59 pieces, and wanted to take 25 games first because of bank transaction limit (include the 2 EOJ). To make it easier Tash offered RM 1.5 K for this first bulk to which Frog okayed even though one of the games (EOJ) costs RM 80 which would make the whole costs to be RM 1520. Hence Frog discounted RM 20 from the whole bulk further.

KEY ASSUMPTION : Frog only offers the games at RM 60 if take everything (even though batch by batch) and allowed the buyer to pay by batch as well thinking that he / she will promised to collect the other batch later. Having said that, Frog did also say that he can let go everything 1 shot but buyer now wanted it by batch because cannot withdraw enough money for everything.

4. They then meet up at a bright place where Tash & his mum were there to check the discs. Gonna assume transaction when okayed since no one mention any complains then.

5. Tash later reverted saying that there was missing cards with the EOJ game (the one promised - and initially at RM 80) to which later Frog replied he will pass it together with the 2nd batch of PS3 games Tash promised to buy (again based on the above Key Assumption). Since Frog already said he can pass the games all immediately, it is safe to assume he can transact at any time but that hasn't happened because Tash can't meet up due to scheduling conflict.

KEY ASSUMPTION : Frog did not pass the cards to Tash and Tash agreed to buy in bulk.

6. However, later Tash reverted that he doesn't want the EOJ anymore so Frog offered to reduce the price of the next bulk by 2 games upon return, but unfortunately Tash replied he doesn't want to do it because did not receive EOJ full set (someone should explain what does EOJ come with). He just want to know exchange the game but Frog doesn't want that because his initial offer was everything in bulk and at a certain price, and assumed to be agreed with Tash (just that Tash cannot take it one shot).

Now personally I dealt with both this bros before and I consider them both nice fellas, but objectively this are my thoughts :

i. Tash accuses Frog of being ill-mannered and that he was forced to buy the games off him - I can't see any evidence of this yet (I exclude all the name callings prior to this topic being created). I can't see any incidents of being forced to. All I observe was a buyer promised to buy a whole bunch of games batch by batch at a price the seller willing to sell and that this games were already agreed upon in a list (whether buyer has it or not, its not a point - its still an offer to buy).

ii. The accuser also states that the seller lied to him on the EOJ game, when the seller already communicated that 1 of the EOJ game came with accessory and the other did not (buyer took both). Unfortunately seller forgot to bring the accessory (which is the cards) during the 1st transaction so he said he will bring he when they do the next bulk transaction which should be immediately because all the games are already with the seller.

iii. Now Tash wants to get full refund or exchange the 2 EOJ games, while Frog wants him to fulfill the bulk because of his promise but still willing to exchange or reduce total bulk by 2 games. Furthermore, since Tash has open a rental thread, Frog probably feels that now with the 25 games Tash has, his already starting to rent them out (I'm just assuming this).

I hope both of you can kiss and make up but with all the name calling, and accusations I think thats impossible. I not sure how you want to solve this coz its obvious Frog's intention now is to share with everyone that Tash did not keep his promised while Tash seems bent on getting a full refund since he believe that Frog was not upfront about his games though so far most of the replies state that the seller, Frog, has clearly spelled out the terms.

Tash, please do share the conversations that you said will highlight your complaint, as clearly the whole situation doesn't sound like the one you painted.

This post has been edited by terryfu: Dec 5 2011, 04:52 PM

What I read is this - Frog did mentioned RM80 is including "cards" not "accessories". But in no point of the conversation did any party brought up the inclusion of "mat" and "stand" which Tash is insisting. Thus like terryfu mentioned; someone well experienced in this game should gives an opinion what is the standard package of EOJ.

He quoted me the 1 set of EOJ for RM80

and the other one for RM60

and he was never specific about anything....

and I trusted him cuz he is a old member and we played couple of times together....

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Added on December 5, 2011, 5:36 pmand I am willing to pay RM40 (he stated this in his conversation) and will you provide me the acc for EOJ ?

This post has been edited by tashfinsheikh: Dec 5 2011, 05:36 PM

Now you're picking from what he wrote later in this dispute topic.
However did you or did he mentioned about accessories in the 1st conversation?

You also asked about cards only, never asked about acc.

I think there's a very big misunderstanding going on here.

You assume that it will come with acc and Frog assumed that he had told you the game only came with cards. As I do not know EOJ, from that conversation I would assume Frog had already told you what is included when it's RM80 there and you had agreed.

Thus like I say, is there anyone neutral out there which understands the standard package of EOJ?

I think on both counts its a misunderstanding between Tash & Frog because of a missing acc.

Tash, sorry but people do sell games without acc. I seen in video game shops, they sell games like eye of judgement, rock band, guitar heroes, any playstation move, etc etc all without the accessories. So what constitutes a full set I can't really fault the seller for not sharing that because they dont know also sometimes whether got or maybe buyer already knew what he's buying. In this case perhaps you should have researched more on EOJ and clarify with Frog on this. As buyers we cannot assume that if someone list the game he or she will specify accessory at least not in this video games garage sales forums.

Example of EOJ I found on amazon.uk : http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eye-Judgment-Solus...23078657&sr=8-3

Of course got other EOJ sets sold by amazon.com and other places but fair to say got people / retailers sell this just the game disc alone. Also noticed on ebay got sellers selling game only and some selling stand and mat only and some selling full set with stands, mat, cards, etc. so I guess this game is unique in that respect. Amazon US selling the game with stands, mat and cards for USD 70!!!

Frog, all I can advise you is that maybe triple confirm with the buyer for games like this (tell them it does not come with this set or this accessory, etc). It would help better but then again can't really fault you because most of the LYN sellers here can hardly confirm with me CE contents .

This post has been edited by terryfu: Dec 5 2011, 06:01 PM

Well he did mentioned that he will sell RM80 (games) to me with Acc and cards, and I saw this :
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-Eye-of-Judgme...f=pd_cp_vg_h__1

and his pic for reference purpose

and I am still asking frogcat are you willing to solve this problem or not ? its your choice , but do keep in mind now I don't want to deal with you further....

If you want kindly tell me how to do it...

If we do like this , this topic will go on and on...

Option's :

1) You give me acc and I will pay you RM40
2) I give both of games to you and you refund me RM120
3) If you feel cheated (Which you are not) I can give you all your games and you give me all my money back, this way there is no promise, no deal, no misunderstanding, no fkk (u think this way) , and we will go to square one, and everything will be finished.

With these options neither you can complain , neither I can complain , it is fair deal between us.

Hey Tash can u help point out which part of the conversation that frog said he'll well both cards and acc for rm 80. All I Saw in this thread and ur 95 conversation pics that he said for cards only. Maybe my 4 eyes missed that out

if i'm not mistaken, complete set of EoJ comes with a set of card, which is a deck, a PS Eye, and a mat... if i'm not mistaken, i used to work at a gaming shop, and they have this game, it's around 4-5 years ago, so i'm not very sure, but i know it comes with a deck, a mat and a ps eye.

Thats why I admitted it and I am willing to pay RM40 for the acc

---

Added on December 5, 2011, 6:33 pmI respect you and will follow your advice

This post has been edited by tashfinsheikh: Dec 5 2011, 06:33 PM

paying him extra RM40 for the acc will NOT solve this problem bro. the problem now is, u're not willing to buy all his other games like what u've agreed. from the conversation, i only see that, he said there are 2 sets of EoJ. 1 is RM80, which comes with the cards, another 1 is RM60, which is only the game. and he agreed to sell both to u at a price of RM60 each, a RM20 discount to you, which is fair enough i think. and u have not ask anything about the acc to him too, so it can't be all his fault, his only fault will be not telling u that it doesnt come with the acc. and all the options u let him choose, isn't fair IMO. all the benefits is on your side. either he sell u the acc for RM40, refund for the 2 EoJ and refund everything... what about the original agreement between both of you? u agreed to buy everything from him... i honestly say that, i'm neutral, but i think ur options to solve the problem i abit biased... no offence, just my opinion.

This post has been edited by Ace98: Dec 5 2011, 06:35 PM

I think Frogcat feels "cheated" because both parties initially dealt based on the terms that buyer must take all the games specified in list (excluding the games seller is keeping), so he will give discount for buying in bulk. When buyer mentioned later that he will only take the games not yet owned, this has broken the promise made earlier.

About the EOJ misunderstanding, I'm not sure if tashfinsheikh asked about the inclusion of accessories (I assume aso means accessories). If yes, Frogcat could have thought "aso" means "also" and only mentioned about the cards. If I got this wrong, please don't bash me XD.


The question is if the EOJ issue never took place, will tashfinsheikh still take the next batches as promised? From what the chat log shows, you did not seem to have that intention which is breaking the T&C in the first place.

UPDATE: Posted a bit late, but same point as Ace98.

This post has been edited by valkyrie5034: Dec 5 2011, 06:45 PM

That means he didn't gave me RM60 price for all games he will give that RM60 price to anyone who will buy more than one.....

Hence Tash why I asked if u have anything that says frog offered the acc and cards to u for rm 80. U can just offer back to him rm 40 for the acc because that was not part of the deal in the beginning.

Even when I agreed to buy everything that night he still sold 3 titles to people



This post has been edited by tashfinsheikh: Dec 5 2011, 06:50 PM

hmm... is the 3 titles included in the list of games that he's selling to you?

Yeap, he then changed the list and give me another list..

A complete set of EOJ come with 1 Mat, 1 Stand, 1 PS Eye, 1 Game & 1 set of Cards (Booster Pack) with 34 cards in total.

Point this out with evidence & I believe you can't, cause I never said that.

Like Ace98 & valkyrie5034 bro said, your options only base on your own good, & until now, you don't even willing to answer & take responsible on the rest of the 1st batch, which u did promise to get it on the next day, or on the Sat (3rd December).

If you want to solve this & cut off these crap, do it in a win win situation, you return me the games, & you buy those games under 1st batch, that's it. Or else, like you mentioned above you don't want to deal with me, then why still talk about those options?

The most important part is, YOU STILL HAVEN'T ANSWER TO THE PUBLIC, ARE YOU GONNA BUY THE 1ST BATCH AS PROMISE?

Pls, you agree since 1 month ago & never even set a date for COD, means no confirm dealing yet, so I still can sell. & suddenly you come to me & said I confirm to COD with you on Tuesday, look at the pic, I even feel surprised & ask "I said today?".

& guys, look at the pic, can understand that I keep update him with my latest game list, I've sent few times of up to date game list to him, from 244 titles, until the latest, until I sold him the very 1st 25 titles.

Actually I was going to ask about the list but he answered already. I scrutinized the conversation and couldn't find anything saying that frog agreed on the games until the last part where agree to sell 59 games. In the msn conversation can't see the games mentioned highlighted and the list a mixtuRe of a lot of games so can't tell which is promised or not. Having said that since from the beginning tash wanted to buy bulk of games from him, frog has been updating him the list.

Tash since u admitted that there was no acc given for eoj as it was not part of the transaction, the it's up to frog whether he accept the ur offer for it. However since there was a separate agreement to buy the rest of the games, you should honor it as a buyer based in the list both of u agreed.

see , i said tonite when can COD on 27





then you made an excuse that you cannot COD that night so you wanted to do on other day, that day I waited the whole day but you never showed up so the next day than also I asked you "so how bro ?"

That means I did asked him for COD , and he even after that he sold 3 games...


So how can he blame me ?

Pls look at the time 3:44:29PM & 3:44:39PM, what I wrote?

Then look at time 3:44:59PM, what I wrote?

Now I don't wanna deal with you anymore sry(The reason is your behavior)

Do you want to solve this issue or not just tell me that?
& Stop pressurizing me for buying second batch bcz of your behavior I don't want to deal with you anymore.

---

Added on December 5, 2011, 7:37 pm

This post has been edited by tashfinsheikh: Dec 5 2011, 07:37 PM

I got really confused going through the conversations.

Like I said before, this situation happened when both parties failed to establish a common and solid agreement.

For Tash, you have failed to state clearly your intention and items you wish to buy. You should have gone through the terms and conditions plus the items that come with the deal. You should have done your own survey and make a list on what need to be asked. First rule of business, never trust the seller.

Same goes to Frog, you have also failed to explain in detailed and complete about your terms and conditions. With the assumption that you are a serious businessman, you should have structured the negotiation process better. As a seller, it is your duty to take that extra effort, not the buyer.

We are not talking about a deal that worth few ringgit, but thousands of ringgit. Both parties should have took an extra effort to discuss things in proper medium of communication i.e. face to face, phone calls and etc. Both decided to use free communication yet confusing which leads to this sort of madness.

If you ask me whether this is a ffk case, my answer is a solid no. This is a case of two individuals where one is too eager to buy, and one is desperate to sell off his aging goods. It is too obvious for me for not to say no. How many of us went to shop look into things, asked lots of things to the shop helpers, show great interest in buying the items but end up walking out the shop with nothing? Shop helpers prolly had to create these sort of threads everyday then.

I don't think I have the authority to decide but what I can advice to both of you is to start talking to each other. Please call each other up. If you don't have each other's phone numbers, get them now. Discuss on how to solve things.

p/s: Not trying to prove anything but there are people selling used PS3 games for RM40 per piece, depending on the title. You can look it up in the threads.

Bro, very easy & stated clearly, he wants to exchange, I agree to exchange, but I just wants him to be fair, fulfill what he has agreed earlier, that's it, but.... seems like he's pushing away what he need to answer to the public, & keep pointing at new things, which doesn't help much you see...

If he refuse to buy the so called 2nd batch (which actually the 1st batch), I'm fine, but I'm not gonna exchange the games for him, that's fair, & we can close case, & everyone will know he broke the promise not me, I'm fine with that as well.

Bro, noted. Like I said, it is best to discuss things face to face or phone calls. It is the best way of communication.

But you look at the way he talk, can he talk nicely? Or will he ask his whole family to come & talk, nicely? Or come & argue again? Actually we all know the answer, he won't talk nicely, he won't settle things in win win situation, he just wants to exchange the games that's it, so.... best is I don't want to waste my time on him, I can close case at anytime, & I'm not desperate to sell him, I can go on with my business still.

I just want to clear my name, bcoz he launched the report in the 1st place, & yet don't want to answer what he shd, & I've answered every questions asked by all frens over here, with strong evidences to support.

Lastly, pls take a look on how ppl complaint about him, he can't even communicate well, I've problem with that as well, when face to face.

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2135790

This post has been edited by Frogcat: Dec 5 2011, 08:47 PM

Bro Frog and Bro Tash

I guess if any of you keep posting more it will make more confusion to the reader. As I can see is more to miss communication. I bro Frog already answer all the question and is already clear to everyone.

I also hope Bro Frog and Bro Tash can close this case in nice way. No need to blame each other anymore. As I said it is more to miss communication with some words in both side conversation. Just we all take note in the future for this kind of situation, batter Face to Face in making a deal rather then chatting v (Just my opinion)

Sorry for my bad english or i give a wrong suggestion v

Cheers

To TS (Tash), lets go back to your original complaint in the 1st post you put also titled ill-mannered & want you to buy games off him. Now I can't really understand yet what you want to do coz this forum is whether you want to highlight or ask the staff to place Frog under dispute / blacklisted because so far you have not pointed out how he is forcing you to buy games from him ( I leave out the ill mannered because both of you have been name calling each other here.

Also you gave the options as per the spoiler below so you will need to decide how you want to pursue this if Frog does not comply with any of your requests. Again I'm just focusing on what kind of complaint you want to put up here, and what you want us Forumers to be warned about.

TS (Tash) resolution options


As for the response from some of the forumers here, I can concur why Seller (Frog feels cheated) as there is evidence in the conversations that Tash suppose to buy the whole games agreed (59 pcs) from Frog at a price of RM 60. Whether the price is fair / good deal or not that is not the point. Point a gentleman's agreement has been made, and while Frog wanted Tash to take the whole set, in the end he only took 25 first, and from what I gather inthe conversation these 25 is for the games Tash did not own. The rest of it Tash already more or less has the games and Frog is feeling that because buyer wanted to only take 1st batch first (reasons stated was ATM withdrawal limit). Frog probably feels that Tash probably tried to bargain by taking more games to get lower prices (after all cheaper in bulk), collect the 1st batch which he does not own, then later come up with some stories so don't have to take second batch. Personally I feel is a misunderstanding but fact of the matter is there was an agreeement to buy the whole list as per what the other forumers stated below.

As for the EOJ misunderstanding, I can say that any LYN seller who sell in the game forums, it is understood for games disc only (whether can play or not with or without accessories / cards, etc). You guys obviously know this and can check every major seller here. Hence cannot compare with handphone or computer set, etc. as different market got different way of sharing their wares. Now I don't know what Tash is thinking when he bought the EOJ as per shared by Frog, and I cannot say that Frog is wrong for elaborating how the EOJ game is like because he just mentioned EOJ with cards.

And since Tash misunderstood about EOJ, Frog offered to sell the 57 games again at the price of RM 60 instead of 59, allowing Tash a full refund for the EOJs.

Frog's misgivings


Lastly, I would like to comment @noruazumi post on trading in LYN.

Most of LYN trading is based on gentleman's agreement and no seller nor buyer draws up a list of terms and conditions. It naturally based on human trust unlike major trading sites like Lelong / Ebay, etc. Normally its via chat rooms, or PMs. I agree that as a buyer you should always clarify before you buy and do the usual common steps like insist on COD, ask can work or not with this or that, etc.

However, I fail to understand what extra effort that the seller should do? For me seller should state clearly what they want to sell and I think from all the conversations, that is stated clear enough by Frog. Not sure what you mean by structured negotiation process. Its usually a simple case of seller put an item on offer (describe as best able to), buyer offers price (asks as much about the product), and if both agrees including terms of delivery or COD, than the deal is done.

And you're right, this is not a ffk case. hence let the TS decide what he wants to do. Normally people put up a dispute topic to either highlight to warn other buyers / sellers or ask LYN staff to blacklist them (hence coming back to the top of this reply to Tash). I doubt if both would call each other now looking the responses and its up to TS how he want to proceed once Frog replies to his options (which I think he already indicate as above) so I say the balls are in Tash's court to proceed with next step.

LYN Trading


BTW, as I said before I know both of them and have played with them and feel a little sad that this happened and what I'm trying to do here is summarize the whole points so that both can move on to whatever's next. Hence Tash I leave up to you to decide on what you want to do. I've read the whole MSN conversation and I cannot find fault on the transaction prior before you start complaining to Frog about the EOJ and even them Frog offered to refund those 2 games for you.

I hope you guys can settle this with a win-win situation... It's kinda sad to see that this case happened because of misunderstanding... and to TS, you won't be happy too if someone calling you an "Ill-manner seller/buyer", right???

Thanks bro for reading the whole thing. Pls allowed me to pin point on the words "game Tash did not own" follow by the documents he uploaded on Post #19, under the file Game_List_4.doc, & we judge on the titles with blue color, with his rental & used games selling thread:~

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2129122 (Rental Thread)


http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1901721 (Used Games Thread)


We compare what he has in his list, with the game with blue color in the document. I highlighted those he has in this list with Green color, by doing this, I want the public to know that, his words cannot be trusted. What he has in the list are Bioshock 2, Darksiders & Transformers - War For Cybertron only, compare to the 30 games below.

Army Of Two - The 40 Days
Bionic Commando
Bioshock 2
Blitz - The League II
Burnout Paradise
Darksiders
D I C K Marcinko - Rogue Warrior (2 copies)
Eat Lead - The Return Of Matt Hazard
F.E.A.R. 2 - Project Origin
FarCry 2
Ferrari Challenge - Trofeo Pirelli
Fuel
Kane & Lynch 2 - Dog Days
MAG
Merceneries 2
ModNation Racers
MX Vs ATV Reflex
Need For Speed Undercover
Prince Of Persia - The Forgotten Sands
Pure Football
Saint Row 2
Soul Calibur IV
Stormrise
Superstars V8 Racing
Transformers - War For Cybertron
Truth Or Lies - Someone Will Get Caught
Virtua Fighter 5
Warhawk
World Soccer Winning Eleven 2010

And pls come back to the very last MSN history that I uploaded, pls take a closer look on what he said "i will buy, and after this one, and the game i'm interested in" & "the games i already have, i won't take it".

MSN History


Based on "i will buy, and after this one, and the game i'm interested in", prove that from the beginning he ady try to cheat me, as he promised to get everything return from customers.

Based on "the games i already have, i won't take it", prove that he's a cheater as well, the list above, he has 3 titles only, how about the rest? how about the 27 games remaining? (because he started a rental thread, don't tell me the 27 games he has it & didn't list out in the thread, that's ridiculous, if he dare to say that).

The CHEATING INTENTION, already there, he admitted & there's no any misunderstanding. Therefore, all frens here pls don't let him redirect anyone of you to any directions anymore, he launched a report by saying I'm an ill-manner seller, & when I answered & prove nothing wrong on my side, & started to counter back, he avoided everything bad of him, showed rubbish evidences, avoided to answer what he shd, keep showing new things to make everyone confuse.

By saying this, I hope the public aware of 1 very important thing, I won't say he is an untrustworthy seller, but I can assure that, he's an untrustworthy buyer / person. Pls label him as that.

This post has been edited by Frogcat: Dec 6 2011, 08:20 AM

The logic behind "if he doesn't want to sell some games, so I have the right to not buy some of them" is flawed. This is an excuse to cover your track. The case is already against tashfinsheikh for not following Frogcat's T&C.

Since seller from the beginning already explained why he can't sell some of the games and buyer still agreed to it, this is clearly buyer's fault. Thus, this complaint thread is invalid and Frogcat has a good reason to call this a FFK issue.

Sorry tashfinsheikh, unless you explain why you agreed the deal when you have no intention of buying all the games, I don't see any chance of you winning this case.

Unless the TS have more solid proof stated that seller forcing him to buy all, then TS "story" unclear. When I read TS statement/explanation, it twisted the original story, compare to Seller, where the explanation are persistent until now with backing proof.

Since seller willing to close the case, let's stop it and move-on.

Note: I still cannot accept the title "Ill-Manner...." where the seller didn't force TS, but creating a dispute in here, like an intention to tarnish seller image.

First of all, No agreement were made.

and 2nd of all , If there was an agreement for me to buy games from him (so called bathches) then he is not allowed to sell any games to anyone or anyother person and don't deserve the right to change the document

I found several proofs that he changed the document, (Game List (3) is the doc before COD, and Game List (4) is after COD)

you can check it and see he is tempering with the document and taking several games out that he doesn't want to sell to me

and forcing me to buy 2nd batch when I agreed to buy more games from him, not the blue games from the list....

I didn't confirmed which game's I wanted to buy from him...

and that he said



Bro , I never talked to you in any bad way, you were the one using abusiv/offensive language against me, and you posted that this is the first step after that I openend this topic, you were the one that threatened me 3 times to report me to fkk topic not me..

Kindly look at the conversation and see.









Attached File(s)
 Game_List_3_.doc ( 30k ) Number of downloads: 5
 Game_List_3___After_checking_and_finding_games_missing_.doc ( 43.5k ) Number of downloads: 7
 Game_List_4_.doc ( 25.5k ) Number of downloads: 3

I gave chances to you so many times, & you still want to play right? Good, let's play the very last one, after this, the whole public deserve an explanation from your side, & stop creating new stories, face everyone like a Guy, or Gal, or whatever you are.

1st of all, I would like to upload & show to the public what I've told him upfront again, & with his respond as well.


Next I will give an solid answer base on the game list so called he checked properly & questioning. The title he complain missing were:~

1) Beat Sketch! (R2 - J)
2) Dynasty Warriors - Strikeforce (R1)
3) Fist Of The North Star - Ken's Rage (R2)
4) Hokuto Musou (R3 - J)
5) Lost Planet 2 (R3)
6) No More Heroes - Heroes' Paradise (R2)
The 6 titles above having scratches, if he wants it, I'm happily to sell those to him. (Don't come & tell me coz there's scratches so you wan to buy it with special price, I rather keep & let my lovely cat sit on it.)

7) MAG (R3) <-- There's 2 copies in the 3rd list, but I can't find the 2nd copy, so I altered it become one, & he didn't point it out. (Did he really check?)
8) NBA 2K10 (R3) <-- This is my bad, I miss this out in that list, the game still with me. (He can get it on the 2nd batch no problem)

9) Sports Champion (R3) <-- Pls look at the spoiler below. (If he still gonna buy the 2nd batch, I will give it to him still.)


10) Tears To Tiara (R2 - J) <-- Pls look at the spoiler below. (He bought it, even list in his thread, talking nonsense now.)


This post has been edited by Frogcat: Dec 6 2011, 06:13 PM

Bro Tash & Frog, I very confused so again I come back to the nature of the complaint.

Tash, you still havent let us know what you want us to decide or are you just sharing a grievance. In your complaint details you mention you that the EOJ comes without the necessary accessories and Frog has agreed to refund them via contra with the balance of the games that you were suppose to buy. Then you felt that he is forcing you to buy the games or even all of the games but if I look at the conversation below you already agreed to buy 59 games from a list.





In there you mention you will also will take 25 on that day (29/11) and the rest tomoro and again Frog insisted you take one shot but finally allowed you to take batch by batch.

To me you have agreed to buy this 59 games on that list on 29/11. As far as I can see a gentleman's agreement has been made to buy this list of 59 games to which you took 25 already. Now if Frog had change the list of the balance games that he agree to sell to you, then I agree that it is his error, and you have every right to reject it. Again I not sure why you say you didn;t confirm coz you blatantly confirm "tomolo, will buy the rest of em" as of 29 Nov 4.25:43 pm.

So my question to you is, where can I find that Frog is forcing you to buy other games instead. List already agreed by both you and him. Did he change this list of 59? I notice you show some games list but I counted 136 / 144,, etc etc. and I also noted that early in the conversation Frog mentioned Black is rented out and only willing to sell the blue ones to which you agreed to take all I believe.

And Tash, I don't really bother about any other list he tempered, I just want to know whether you genuinely agree to buy the 59 games as per your conversation with him.

And Frog, please stick to complaint, what Tash wants to do with the games he bought from you is up to him. Did you change the list of 59 games? Were you going to take out some of them and replace with others? His accusing you of forcing to buy the games so please share the list of the games that he already agreed to buy if its not forced and let us know that was the original list that both of you agreed on.

This post has been edited by terryfu: Dec 6 2011, 07:20 PM

After follow up this thread for a few days here, it just give me some feel tat what those TS(tashfinsheikh) said/or complaint at here is really out of topic?pls forgive me,if i miss something here.

This is the thread started by TS....BUT i dont see you can provide any strong evidence to prove u points,but Frogcat did it.
And somemore,If we still keep discuss other things here,i dont think that it helps TS to solve the problem,btw just my opinion and i m not stand on each side.

Actually,i dont think that we should put this topic out here(both of u can discuss properly by face2face).And according to this topic-"Ill-Manner Seller",isnt it not suitable to label someone like this when you are not able to prove you points about him?

So, back to the topic,i do hope both of you can solve this problem with peace and getting some good idea...
Btw,TS,pls...no more new topics ok?just discuss what you complaint here,if you cant,pls let this back to the normal,and also the reputation belong to the guy who u complaint here,thks.

Thanks for the reminder bro, this guy seriously wants to confuse everyone including me & luckily you bring this out.

Ok, just stick to the Game List doc 3, there's actually 57 games, so -25 to what he bought, there should be 32 left (which in blue color), those games still with me, condition good or not is not the issue now, I confirm I didn't sell it off.

So to quickly settle this, if he willing to grab the 32 left, I'm willing to exchange 2 of it with EOJ. If he still giving excuses, then I'm 100% clear my point, Moderators pls come & stop this fella from trying to confuse everyone further, he didn't answer any single questions to the public up to date, & is my time to launch another report on him, regarding cheating, & ffking....

are you wanna get a revenge sir???

I think my report shd be simple & nice (as many ppl know the story ady), & he doesn't have much to counter with, as to be fair to me, I patiently handle every questions asked, & my name was there & stated as Ill-Manner seller for few days, what do you think bro? If he gets a Dispute Tag or list his name under the ffk thread, I won't launch a report then.

be patience sir...i know you really angry right now ...i understand that..i know how you feel sir...i read the whole report....really long and take time to understand what happened between both of you....very complex problem...


anyway can both of you meet each other to settle that problem??? i think that the right thing to do....just set a time and place so both of you can meet each other to settle the problem and clear everything...

Let's see how's his respond 1st, if tomorrow before 23:30pm (7th December, 2011), he still:~

1) Talking Nonsense (like he's not gonna deal with me anymore, obviously & officially ffk me in front of everyone.)
2) Creating New Stories (redirect & avoid what he shd answer to the public)
3) Make Ppl Confuse Further (by showing rubbish evidence)

Then, I'm pretty sure I don't have to wait anymore, as he's the one with ill-manner not me.

haha.. kinda confused if u guys keep posting new stuffs and pointing on another issues..
but after reading (some) of the evidence posted here.. i come to several conclusion..

1. this all issued started by TS - main issue : felt being pushed to buy by seller
2. frog only came in bcoz thread started against him - he wouldnt bring this up even he claimed he being ffked
3. the deal is made! TS agreed/asked for the whole game from frog, not 1 not 2 - so if the TS at any time dont want to pursue that : for me its ffk!
4. i can heart what frog must have felt, feeling played, cheated, drag into understanding TS want to buy the whole stuffs but at the end, being reasoned with crappy points
5. TS did post his evidences, so do frog, but it seems that frog evidence did show what he intended the audience to understand, while TS's are kinda serabut with no/less point
6. i didnt know both person, but i dont think all this matter can be resolved by face to face or talking thru phones.. even more when TS did ask frog to speak with his father/parents? (duh!)
7. sorry if this hurt TS, but imho, u dig ur own grave by posting this topic (and kinda kantoi when some of ur post, u've edited it after frog point something up)

Here is an example of our conversation for those who haven't read the whole part.

Customer : I want to buy Assassin's Creed 2 + DLC, inFamous 2 + DLC, Fifa 12, Battlefield 3

Seller : I have Assassins Creed 2 + DLC and inFamous 2 available

Customer : I want to pay for Assassins Creed 2 + DLC for inFamous 2 I will buy it after several days

Seller : It is for xxx

Customer : Will it include the dlc

Seller : yeap it will include the dlc , xxx with dlc and this is the price without dlc xxx

Customer : Ok , lets deal, I want the dlc one

Seller and Customer dealt and seller gives customer the game

After that

Customer : Where's the DLC

Seller : I forgot to include the dlc, i will include it with our next deal,

Customer : Assassin's Creed 2 comes with 2 DLC , I thought it comes with both DLC's not 1

Seller : for xxx do you think I am a fool to give you both dlc

Customer : But you didn't stated that it was one dlc only, I asked if it comes with dlc you gave me 2 prices , 1 with dlc, the other without dlc

Seller : OK, pay for inFamous 2 and I will minus some of the cost from AC2 from inFamous 2

Customer : but I wanted the DLC ? without it how can I play the game properly ?

Seller : You should pay for inFamous 2 or I open a fkk thread on you

Customer : Solve my first issue after that I will buy inFamous 2 from you next week , I thought I could buy it from you this week but I got some personal issues so I will buy it later next week.

Seller : You said you will buy inFamous 2 , go to hell, i will open an fkk thread on you

Customer : I said please resolve my first matter first then we will deal with the 2nd one but after this

The customer feel offended : He wrote several offended words to me, why should I buy from an Ill-mannered guy

Seller :
Lets do this , I give you the 1 dlc this week
but you have to buy inFamous 2 next week Monday or I will report you to fkk thread.

Customer : I don't agree with your rules, why is it always you pointing out the rules and forcing me to buy inFamous 2 when I want to solve AC2 issue first, and I will from now on won't buy anything from you.

Seller : you are a young jerk & cunner

Customer : Ok, go ahead and report me

Seller : This is the first step :
"Guys beware a young cunner & cheater PSN game seller is here cheating everyone" or something like that , I quoted him but our post got deleted.

Buyer : You took the first step I will take the next step and I will take the 2nd step and open a thread on you.

Buyer open a thread that he is Ill-Mannered and forcing me to buy inFamous 2 from him....

Buyer even asked him to solve the issue : like refund the money and take back his game... (He rejected)

The seller comes and say that you should buy inFamous 2 and started giving evidence that the buyer agreed to buy inFamous 2 and completely ignoring the first issue.

==============================================

And for some questions :

First of all we agreed to COD at 27th night, but he was busy so he pospone the COD date to 28th

and that whole day he was busy selling his games to some other people, if he thought that I bought all the games than how come he still selling games ?

2nd I didn't agreed to buy 59 games from him, he just said 59 were available and I said these 25 I want to buy now, the rest are 2 or 3 that I will buy tomorrow

I didn't said anywhere that I will buy 34 games from him

and during the COD he was suppose to bring the whole acc or deck and clarify me at the COD location but instead he said he forgot to bring it and he will give it to me later so I thought he forgot to bring the whole set.....

Third : if he thinks I agree to buy all games, why didn't he wrote on his topic that all games are reserved for me ? and kept on selling and removing some games from the list ?

4th : If he thinks I bought all games from him, than he broke the promise and took some games out of the list and there our agreement was destroyed.

5th : He said to me , "Go to Hell" and "I dun care how ur mom thinks" and "now ur parents overseas, so funny" and "ur a jerk & i dun like cunning jerk"

and he wrote : if I want to sell this in sets, I edi pull out and sell it" so this clearly states that he had cheating intention on me and was not willing to sell all his games to me, if he finds a better offer than me he can sell it to them and if he cannot than he sells to me ?

Uploading the evidence's....

If you have read the whole conversation that's the summary.

So if anyone can buy from an Ill-Mannered guy like him, so please come to me , I will also insult you, your parents, and then force you to buy games from me and threaten you to open fkk thread.....

Some pics as proof :


here it shows :


that I said I will buy the rest 2 or 3 games after several days (so called batch 2nd)




and one more thing : kindly read the whole conversation.

and He is always trying to force me to accept his T&C so that "I will chose the games I want was a counter attack for him taking out Cricket games"

and for Eye of Judgement , I will clarify it today after a while

TS, i personally do think that, you void the original agreement. it's your fault for misunderstanding the EoJ thing. even i was able to understand that 1 comes with the cards 1 comes with nothing, nothing more, nothing less. and you originally agreed to buy everything, but now, using the EoJ as excuses, you don't wanna buy everything... you just try thinking from the seller side, won't you be angry too?

Buy everything thing was void canceled , as soon as he said that I cannot sell everything at 1 shot, so whats the point ?

and if he was intended to sell everything to me, why did he sold several of his games to other people ?

Tash, after reading your perspective of this I can only conclude the following (pending you share the EOJ) :

1. Tash misunderstand Frog's offer. Frog misunderstood Tash's offer to buy. (example Tash said "the rest are 2 or 3" then later frog said "available now is 59", and finally tash say "will buy the rest of them"). So whether agreement to buy all for price of RM 60, I leave it to both of you to sort it out. To me it is a big misunderstanding.

So coming back to what you want to do Tash? All I can summarize now is that

1. Both of you feel aggrieved because did not get what you want out of this deal. Tash thought the EOJ was full set. Frog thought Tash would buy the whole list.

Like some of the forumers mention b4, all this is a big misunderstanding and there is no fault in either party. Tash, you get 25 games at RM 60 although 2 games were not what you expected so maybe loss of RM 120 there. Frog, you missed out on selling the balance 34 games so technically your opportunity loss of almost RM 2 K there.

And since Frog does not want to refund and neither does Tash want to take the 2nd batch I take it the case over already so both of you can stop this name calling and hurt each other's reputations. I wont touch the ill mannered part here or go around saying who start this first because both of you have been calling each other names and under the wrong assumptions on each other.

For me I recommend mod / staff to close this down (i know some LYNers already mention this) because there is no dispute, and both parties feel they con each other (double conning?) so maybe its not a con after all.

he's selling it batch by batch because you said you there was transaction limit, and thus, have no choice but to sell it batch by batch, unless u're willing to wait until you bank in all the money, then he COD with you with everything, but most of us won't be willing to do that,right? and for the part he's selling to other people, it's because you haven't respond to him for a long time. you said you will buy everything, but you have yet to confirm with him, so he has the right to sell it to everyone, imagine if he reserved everything for you, ended up you said you don't want, then what will happen?

hi bro juz an opinion, i not sure whether did he(frog) reserve for him(tash) or not, but promise is promise, u said RESERVED then u shuldn't sell it out... and wat do u think when u asked to reserve things from someone, and this someone sold it out to someone else?

bro thats where you think it is wrong,

the first list was sent to me after 1 month, that one month between that we were not in contact, we got in contact on 23rd Nov

After that he gave me 244 games list and said he won't sell 60 games from that

and on 27th I said lets COD that night and he didn't and said he busy and said tomorrow night we COD and tomorrow whole day he didn't talked to me and I was waiting for his reply.

and in that period 27~29 he sold 3 games....

if he thinks he reserved for me, then why did he sold them ?

err.. correct me if im wrong, i thought in 1 of the snapshot here show that both of u claimed online but never speak/reply on each other..
hmm..

Stop Twisting around again & again.... Look again on what you said... stop pointing to other places again.

Pls take a look on the below pics, I wan't to prove to everyone. He didn't even give an official confirmation he wants to take every games available b4 the 1st time we COD, he always said will come back to me, will revert to me at night. Pls take a very closer look on what I said, & what I've answer, again pls, the very last time (I beg everyone's help to catch this cunning man), I hope everyone can see it, since he never confirm, why I can't sell the 3 games? Then he suddenly said I confirm to COD on Tuesday nite (29th November), did I? I even asked a question back, did I?

Pic 1


Pic 2


Pic 3


Pic 4


From the below 2 pics, just within minutes, from "the rest are 2 or 3", then "the rest", what you mean by the rest? (This ady prove that you like to twist & turn, within a minute you ady twist & turn once), you fully understand that I want to sell it in bulk, if I come on the 3rd December, I will bring everything come at once. For you to avoid buying the rest, you insist to COD on 29th November, instead of 3rd December, by giving the reasons "you wanna start the bizz immediately", & "the bank limit".

Pic 1


Pic 2


I mentioned the "game + cards", I didn't use the words "the rest", or "game + others", or "game + acc"... Very very clear, I even mentioned 1 with cards, another without, not like ur example DLC or DLC(s), whatever, stop creating stupid example, your example suits you, coz u never say things clearly (when you've intention to cheat, a cheater always say things twist & turn, not clear, that's commonsense).

This post has been edited by Frogcat: Dec 7 2011, 05:21 PM