Wau, V R now in V4 and still running hot and together we may make a record....SeeSeng must be proud.

4K nests in over 4 years, if I believe that I could do it then, would I sold it so cheaply, but that's the good old days. And it's over 6 months and not a year! I was also surprised what then it's too late and did you know after afew years, how many nests were in the BH which was sold again to another buyer and this time, it was sold for over 5.5M and the BH had over 10K nests according to the seller then.

Now, I think that the amount may drop some as the new owners modified the BH according to their way and from friends that they harvest the BH monthly. Why modified when the good was running as I always preached and his loss maybe my gain as one of my BHs is close to this BH and I shall be expecting better harvest next time around; thanks to this Chai Sen Yeah.

That's why I always said that when you care for the birds, the birds will remember you and always return to your BH, their home and with them, their descendants and even to great great grand swiftlets, relatives and friends........

There are really many of such successful BHs around and the only difference between us is that I share but they didn't for reasons known to all here and some personal ones, too. Sucessful ones in towns and well as on agriland but more difficult on agriland due to many known problems.

Having a few thousand over a few years isn't very difficult if you get all rights; Right place, Right timing and Right conditions and you can see the growth that you never seen before......... there are still such luck now but no one is telling.

Even now, out of hundreds new BHs, there are some very successful ones, some average but most of them slow or fails as there are some many new BHs with not many owners willing to allow the birds to breed ( excluding me and some here of course). Their aims now focus more on better quality nests fetching premier price meaning white nests so they will remove nest before the birds lay their eggs and after the birds lay their eggs........no shit on the nests, you get prefect nests with no stain at all.

Which way is better of the two evils, someone did ask me and I did advice some and has since regretted telling them as they are doing what I told them to do which isn't good for the growth of the birds.

The most honorable and humane way is to allow the birds to fledged and thus repaying "the duck that lay golden eggs" and helping others to grow and also you; you may have thousands nests but afew more thousands would be better, right? The most importance of all, your own soul! Just by allowing the birds to multiply and fledged and just one successful BH can and do support 10 BH in the area. Just imagine that the 10K nests BH allow their birds to fledged and there shall be approximately 20K new birds and that's just one time and most new BHs ask for only 100 nests in a year and so you need only to capture their 5% fledged birds; you got three times to try in a year.

If only that the Chinese now insist on brown nests (after the RED nests and the bleaching whites) to be the most healthiest and safest then I would be blessed.

Silly idea, sorry to say. Hate to comment on something very old as in V1. Wanna try something, you must have something more rigid than paper folding............

Taking thru experience,

Years ago, during fledgling time, for an hour or more, I would go out of my shop in the late afternoon to observe young swiftlets in thousands gather around the hill near my BH to play as this was the first time the newly fledged bird did flew out and gathered in the sky. Like young children learning to fly and with the wind high up, they circle and circle and make friends and the old bachelor males will try to find a partner there. I don't know if the males had already a partner or not, maybe swifltets do polygamy like some human do but then expert said that swiftlets are mono and married for life....

Now, we don't such scenario as most BHs don't share the same view and as such, such beautiful scene is only happening in history.

Just from my old file (brain) to share and only if I still remember the rest... hope you all don't mind me sharing my old memories here.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Nov 27 2011, 11:18 AM

Well, let me explain why and how BH ranching to most can make money in a long run provided obviously you can get nests.

1st. year is critical years on whether if you are on the journey to richness or not.
2nd. year is forget your GR scheme or you are on your way and if so, you will find a steady increment of nests.

3rd. year is a year when you shall know if you are there or still retain in 2nd.year class and if you pass the 3rd.year class, you maybe on your way to wealth.

After the 3rd. years and if you are successful, you are already in K nests status and in the coming year, anything can happen and your BH is now officially a self supporting BH where you can support your own increment of nests and will able to increase more than you may imagine provided obviously, you do no unnecessary modification as your BH is already a sanctuary for swiftlets without anymore renovation which may do worst than improve the situation. Also, since your BH is old, the older the better to get other BHs new fledged birds..

At 5th. years, you are already rich as you now have got back all your investment and your BH now value afew time your investment and that's what I refer to as your true return for being patient and kind to the swiftlets.

Assuming that your building cost RM150K to building and with the land will cost you about Rm250K and after 5 years, the inflation value of the BH will be at least 500K but you haven't taken in to account of the nests value which is at least RM500 per nests and having let say, 3K nests and that work up to be Rm1.5M. Totally, RM2M if that doesn't satisfied you, I don't know what will which you only invested Rm250K at the beginning and you have got the investment back in 3 years. So, the Rm2M is pure profit!!!

Do you agree?

Hi, like I said, your friends got to retain for another 2nd. year for failing that year test. Like in your school days, you need to retain remove class for failing to get the passing result....and that's one year wasted and maybe another year if you still failed.

You got to have K nests to be self dependence cos without the K nests at your BH, you shall always be at the mercy of the nearby successful BHs and if they are not producing, these BHs are even sharing your fledged birds and you lose to them as their BHs are older and they draw in your birds better and faster than you. What come out of your BH is share among all BHs in your area and you are infact taking the smallest share being the late comer.

Here, we have friends that just did their basic BH for Rm36/ft ( include metal safety doors and windows) not including of planks and sound system and mind you 9 ins red brick wall, 15 feets high and slab rooftop plus roofing Free.

I did mine @ Rm46 include everything plus roller shutter packing lot, 16 metal doors, 4 metal windows, resting/control room with bath room and normal gate ( specifications ordered from an architect/Engineer drawing) .....and I still consider it expensive but I don't have the time to check on the BH so I left to a childhood friend (contractor) to do it.

some friend told me that Johor and other states are cheaper. Only profesional like Engineer Lee and other contractors here shall know if anything lower is possible or not in doing proper construction of BH. I just believe that doing BH must make alot of profit cos a contractor just finished doing a few shop lots here at Rm48/ft and still make money......with so much of aluminum frames and tinted glasses, thick steels and heavy concrete of 8 ins ( ours only 6ins slab) plus much more electrical points and fine work.

No offence to our contractor readers here cos I am just a layman in the trade of construction.

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Added on December 1, 2011, 5:28 pmBest conditions that you can do is to imitate old BH and you can never beat an original oldie and these BHs will surely have an advantages over you unless the guys did what I consider foolish action of renovating the old BH, "Kia Su" as they want to better you in the art of doing BHs and your BH now became the preferred one if you have done all correctly.

Otherwise, there is no way to beat the more than 10 years having over 10 of thousands nests in drawing birds...they have everything going for them; the original heavy smell ( your's only imitation) and original sound ( your's only man made ones) and proven conditions ( your's only assumed right or suggested by your consultants). Remember that large volume of Birds draw and attract in more birds which you lack off.

A silly suggestion on why not fly some dummy swiftlets to draw in the birds.... If anyone did try it out, remember to PM me on it. Ha ha ha...speaking of originality.



This post has been edited by West Wing: Dec 1 2011, 05:28 PM

May I add that afew hundreds nests isn't a selling point to potential buyers and it only increase the value some as anything below a thousand nests isn't helping very much.

I have heard of BHs having few hundreds nests and stay stagnant for years. Best you will pay is BH plus afew hundred for each nest if you want to consider the nests. One to two thousand nests BHs are usually the big guys buy as these BH have assured potential and are not very expensive like 5 to 10K BHs.

Before it's about RM800/nest and now as the price of EBN drop so is the value of the BH.....my opinion only.

There are only few buyers in the market as most of them are already close up shop for the festival and if you are desperate in selling, you will not get good price for the nests @ hand. Remember that there are tons of EBN ready for China market @ hand and also alot are smuggled into China thru Vietnam.

So, wanna good price, you may need to wait for some time.......selling alot now will cause the price to fall further. Here, we are the lucky ones that sold all nests at Rm3100-Rm3500 the last time the China buyers were in town but then someone from nearby town destroyed everything by selling Rm2600-Rm2800 to the China buyers and cause the price to fall backward and the buyers now focus at the other location..........now, what's the actual price, I don't know or bother to find out as we are without nests but I heard from a friend that someone in PJ offered Rm3K for quality nests but I can assured you that it will not be a good sale as the buyer will definitely be very choosy about the nests that he buys so best is to pack up the nests properly and wait for the storm to pass.

If you can't look at the nests harvested, then don't harvest the nests and let the nests lure more birds into your BH and you next harvest will be more than this time....although the nests maybe brown or double storey or more.

Some news on the EBN price to share.

These days when the price of nests are down and the increment of nests are below expectation, many may want to sell off their failed BHs.

Like no serious buyers for nests the same apply to buyers for BH and selling is also be a problem unless you are selling very cheap. Previously, there are so many potential buyers asking for lands and BHs but they are now gone without a trace........

With every bad time, come good opportunities, opportunities to buy cheap nests and also cheaper land and BHs. Everything concerning swiftlets are on sales and I hope that the equipments, products, books, books and others should now be cheaper to reflex the present situation....maybe producers and supliers of these goods will also provide better discounts for their products to help owners of BHs badly hit.

I still don't understand the guarantee of 30 nests in a year apply here and if failed, do the contractor refund you the money or what?

If the contractor can assure me of these success in any place, I will now give him a contract to do a new BH now at a certain location and will even give him a bonus if the target attained during the agreed period or otherwise, penalties like forfeiting of 30% held as insurance against failure to attain the guaranteed amount.

Otherwise, what's good a guarantee "In Words only" and I can even boost to give any failed BH a hundred nests within a year for a good fee and some renovation done by me. Terms are that the owner must pay me for the renovation in advance and the consultation of Rm10K after the nests attained. If failed, I already got my money for the renovation and if successful, the consultation fee will be a added bonus.. Either ways, I make my money and if failed, only my reputation is tarnished only.

Sincerely, I like to give some suggestion cos your BH is good and should be better if you do ensure that you allow space for the birds to breed and multiply. Looking from what you said, you are in good location and there were steady increment of nests in the BH and that's very good but beware of harvesting unused nests and you may slower the gains of your BH. Pls. remember that I just wanna help only and not criticizing here.

Congratulation, my friend

My opinion to share.

1. Cultivation of fruit flies and releasing them at the BH are only because not many birds visit your BH and your intention is to draw more birds attention to your BH.

2. Adding fake nests is to encourage birds to quicken nest building in area which normally is empty of nests and never in area already with nests. This is to encourage birds to lay eggs in the fake nests (with little additional saliva) esp. for the young birds whose nest building skill isn't good at all and thus helping to fasten the process of nest building and increment of nests.

3. Remember that only old birds will remain faithful to your BH and not the new fledged ones and they will leave your BH leaving half built up nests or even after building their first nests in your BH and what you need is to ensure that they do lay eggs and nurse their chicks to fledging. Only after this full cycle can you call these birds your faithful birds and not before then.

Ants eat everything and include birdnests but prefer sweeter thing. Here, we even has a friend who lost a few kilo of nests to the rats even after packing the nests neatly into Styrofoam boxes due to low price and he regreted that he didn't sell and now, he lose even more.

Removing the ants should be easy and one way is to rinse over water and then dry the nests with electric fan.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Dec 8 2011, 01:16 PM

TF my friend,

Very good suggestion to donate to charity in your area so that you maybe safe @ BHs with God's protection as BH is dark inside and many friends have fallen from stairs and afew thru holes. A rather dangerous place and donating to charities is a form of giving back and seeking God's blessing.

For the padi field BHs, I wonder if the place maybe hot on sunny days and cold on rainning days? It's my feeling only as I haven't been to a padi field BH but as by the look of it tell me since there is no tree to block and filter wind, the place must be cold during rainning time and very warm during sunny days cos no tree to cool the air. Air is the natural form of air conditioner, air movement cool the area and stagnant air keep the temperature controlled.

If my predicament is correct, then when building BH in the padi field, one must consider the above by ensuring that the BH is well insulated from the heat and cold. Also, if you want to try producing fruit flies for the birds, it's OK as the swiftlets can see from very far away and fly toward your BH.

The open burning in Indo was what cause the swifltlets to migrate here long ago.

So, m conclusion is that swiftlets never never like smoke and from my experience, there was this one BH next to a restoran and the BH was empty of bird for afew years until the owner of the BH went to see the restoran owner to allow him to move the exhaust outlet of the restoran away from his BH and after that, the birds started coming and staying.

So, my advice ( should be said, suggestion) is do do burning further away from your BH, thus allowing the birds to have confidence to stay and breed in your BH. After your BH is successful, any burning or burglary or anything will not prevent the olc birds from returning home ie your BH.

Coming very near to my 1K postings at V1 to V4, I shall call it a day @ !K posting and let others do the discussion at this forum. Thanks all for all the ears listening to my bird shits story and were patient and kind to me. I shall be always be viewing the posting but will no longer be an active participant here and pls. remember, I ain't migrating to another blog or forum as I love and know this honest sharing forum only and hope that this forum will go on and on one day, we shall be the no.! forum for discussion ever in the net.

100% agreeable with you and TF really put us to shame or at least me..........I don't even have a real control room at all.

Very neat control room for a BH, I would say unless someone can beat this. I have seem control room with 10 amplifiers, multiple timers and more than 3k tweeters for just a 3x30X80 BH but none surprise me with a so neatly arrange control room and he even put my room to shame.

Good work, TF

My neighbor just sold off 6kilo to friends and Chinese men working @ offshore for Rm2500/kg to take back to China. With he recent wave after wave of negative reports on EBN, I just don't know how long this storm will last.

Rumors has it that many are selling very low and no one can blame them cos they are scared and maybe they need the money.


All I can say is


"HAPPY Christmas and A Very Happy New Year to All"........may all your wishes come true.

Hey brother! I got similar idea but slightly different. Turning my incoming BH into a chicken paradise (den) as I got a 5 feets deep pool right in the middle of the BH and I may rent it out to chicken head to rear chicken; the featherless ones. A chicken farm, I would say.

Imagine, having 10 beautiful multinational chicks in bikinis in the pool and clients just pick anyone from the pool.......just let your imagination go wild for a moment to share this scenario cos it's holiday time.

snap it out, my friends and sorry for pulling you all in to my dream...hahahahha ....excuse me for the jokes.

I think it's good to share some jokes during bad time to keep everyone spirit high and happy. God bless you all.

Well, taking about chicks that cannot fly, most of our type of swiftlets have 2 chicks and all you need to do is to see which nest has one chick of similar size.

Failing so, just put the bird into any one and pray that it will survive and some do so at least it got a chance; thanks to you and your kind heart.

From what you written, it's a swiftlet about to fledge and so, any place is OK as the parent birds will hear it's call when they return....and the parent should be able to feed it there and then and in no time, the bird will be able to fly out of the BH.

Just like bats, the parents can distinguish their babies from thousand of others by their cries.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Dec 29 2011, 05:25 PM

LED light, I believe shall be the light of the future as they provide cheap lighting (saving of 80% cost in electric bill) and not hot and lastly, they last over 10 years on normal daily usage. The disadvantage is that these lights are expensive in Malaysia but it's very cheap in China and if cheaply available, I will convert all lighting in the BH with these LEDs to be maintenance free.

I foresee, in future all lighting will use LED and they get brighter and brighter and the price will drop as it very cheap to produce, only set up is expensive.