Ahhh Unc WW,
Lousy timing to go into semi retirement
Some more... for no better reason than reaching 1K posting?
You are eligible for a short rest if someone steals your keyboard and no other reason

Everyone (including your good self) agrees that 's opportunity in a crisis...
Just thought that folks will during the lull go for experimenting, testing and renovation.
All can be conducted with only half the concern for opportunity cost...the price of EBN being what it is now.
Your guidance is more relevant now when they go tinkering with their BHs.
A plus if the end results in more birds and nest ; the worst case.. learn what not to do

How do u get it down to 12V (I presume the motor is 12V DC)?

Unc WW,
Can you please elaborate a little on this 'Mchip'?

My current knowledge from news on this forum is that the relevant Chinese authorities have come to our shore to be shown samples of raw EBN and was to subsequently to work with our MOH towards an agreeable standard.
No news after their visit and now you are saying our MOH has started issuing this Mchippy thing and export has resumed?

(Yes I am aware that it is our MOH that is not issuing their certs that is holding up export and the local Chinese embassy has clarified that the Chinese govt has NEVER banned EBN imports)
p.s. MOH = Ministry of Health.

OK thks, now I can guess what this Mchip is.....
If not mistaken it's a pre-existing requirement even before this fiasco broke out.
This cert is from the DVS (not under MOH) that certifies the source of the exported product ie FROM MALAYSIA.

Post fiasco.....there is an additional cert from the MOH that certifies the yet to be agreed PPM... after you have passed the requirement with sample sent to MOH certified labs.

You are quite right. The additional MOH certification is a requirement for export to China.
At the PutraJaya dialog MOH officials stressed where DVS (Ministry of Agriculture and Agro Based Industry) and MOH scope lies. For direct consumption stuff ie food (dont want to get into any debate here...just regurgitating what I can recall) MOH is the "competent authority".

As it stand 'responsibility for quality' are with the exporters...they are the ones having to get all these certs.
Unless I have misunderstood.

Thks. Got all inspirational while chewing my finger nails off.
Jingle ..initial idea is shd be along the sounds of a upbeat typical taoist funeral chant to fit the current atmosphere surrounding the EBN biz.
Trade mark Kermit registered

My ver is CLEARLY more cynical

IMHO From the beginning 'processed EBN' was the focus of all their effort.
The dialog certainly was!
Just go back and relook at the Traceability website...
http://www.dlm.gov.my/birdnest/product.asp
LIke I have shared (my spider sense) after the PutrJaya dialog...this trecability thing will be forced down our throats
Anyone or all of the ministry involved (MOA, MOH, maybe even 1 more if you want to split hair...clue.. packaged product!!!) MAY or CAN easily make the Traceability as a prerequisite to obtain their certification.
When that happens all raw EBN will have to go to a processing plant !!!.
We have already seen that quite a few processing plants were already granted licenses when the requirements were first announced many moons ago. So there must be even more licensed since then..now that's being proactive
Tells alot doesnt it?
Now we hear the assoc is blaming the govt agencies?
Please...give the agencies more credit.. they do not for 1 minute sound or look like fools to me..they all seem to know their job.
Just 'outsiders' getting in their way of doing a good job.

TeeVee3/4 interpretation...
You see arrr..the Chinese govt ahhh will not accept the NaNO2 content in RAW EBN...so....
we have to beg them to accept the level in processed EBN...we so clever..we took our guests out..many hours of taking them makan here and there and some more lah!!! So much hard work lah!!
They say maybe they can look into accepting the processed EBN content lah!!! also no gurantee la!
(The last statement allow them to gostan mah!!!)

KUALA LUMPUR: Starting this year, local companies exporting swiftlet nests to China are required to obtain three quality certifications before their products will be allowed to enter the republic, according to Agriculture and Agro-based Industry Minister Datuk Seri Noh Omar.

Bird's nest exporters need 3 quality certifications to enter China

Maybe you missed this other piece.....

"The minister said the company which obtained the three quality certifications would be allowed to use the "1Malaysia Best" brand on their swiftlet nest products, but they also had to identify a strategic partner in China to ease the trade and monitoring process.

"Their partners in China will also be required to promote swiftlet nest products bearing the brand of '1Malaysia Best' as the ones having the best quality and safe for consumption," he said."

All,
Before we start discussing this into different directions, lets straighten out some facts and here I mean the Star report which was a press conference by the minister of the lead agency ie DVS....in the Star report ..if reported accurately there is NO mention of the Mchip (Unc WW no offence intended)
Only these...
1)Veterinary Health Mark (VHM) certificate (which I thk is paper cert)
2)Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) certificate issued by the Malaysian Communication and Multimedia Commission (MCMC) (this is a chip...a sticker-like chip)
3)health certificate issued by the Health Ministry (presumably a paper cert)

My understanding of their purposes from the PutraJaya dialog...
1)Veterinary Health Mark (VHM) - is to certify it's origin ie from Malaysia
2)Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) certificate - part of the Traceability system...(I know, this by implication can serve the purpose of 1 above).
3)health certificate issued by the Health Ministry - certifies that it is whatever they eventually agree to xx PPM)
(1 Chip/Cert rules them ALL )

The press report further quoted the minister that if one gets all the 3 certs for a particular consignment (my own interpretation) then that consignment can be exported
AND that consignment is qualified to use the 1MalaysiaBest logo
BUT you have to get a Chinese partner over there (where this is going..your guess is as good as mine)

TeeVee3/4 preporter...
Wah like that one ah
I thot u buy GPS tracker (dun know wat this is), put cert and sticker ALL otomatik become clean and the Chinese govt also happy
But but.. you mean I have to clean it to a particular PPM, submit sample.. pay for analysis then go buy cert and sticker ah?
Oh I forgot... to qualify to clean I must go get certification as a processor also lah.
Oh yes, must get processor license (yes, you have to go for a course) from MOH also..
Aiya.. some more must register here and there also must beg and also pay local majlis for premise license and business license
Like that I think I turn my farm into a backyard rare earth processing plant easier lah

PS 1 more important note
If you DO NOT wish to go thru all the above small small poor farmers can opt for just option 2 only (ie get the damn GPS tracker, buy the chip and box and surrender the rest to the processor and face the consequences)

This post has been edited by Cergau: Jan 17 2012, 12:33 PM

Couldn't agree more...
Now compare the report on my earlier post and this one ....here.....
There's a world of difference between them isn't there???
Just incase the report gets archived and becomes unavailable online...

BEIJING: China recognises the presence of natural nitrite in bird's nest and will lift the import ban on the products from Malaysia after determining a permissible level, Health Minister Datuk Seri Liow Tiong Lai said.
He said the Chinese authorities understood that the presence of nitrite was a natural occurrence when swiflets were raised.
“We reached a very important consensus today after we explained to them why there is natural nitrite in our bird's nest.
“We agreed that there should be no nitrite additive in Malaysian bird's nest exports to China during the production process.
“But the Chinese authorities will allow the presence of natural nitrite in the product,” he said after meeting Chinese health officials here yesterday.
Liow said both sides had set up a working committee comprising food specialists and experts with immediate effect, to determine the permissible level of nitrite in bird's nest products.
The committee will be headed by the ministry's food safety and quality division senior director Noraini Mohd Othman and two Chinese officials from relevant agencies.
“The committee started work today and Noraini will stay in China to discuss how we will work out the details and the timetable for nitrite standards,” Liow added.
He had led a delegation of officials and bird's nest exporters to China to discuss the issue with the Chinese authorities following reports of fake Malaysian bird's nest.
Federation of Malaysia Bird's Nest Associations president Datuk Paduka Beh Heng Seong said Malaysian bird's nest exporters would adhere to the nitrite standards as long as the permissible level was reasonable.
“We have assured the Chinese authorities that we will further improve the quality of our products and restore Chinese consumers' confidence in Malaysian bird's nest,” he said.

My reading of the above implies
China has no problem with our raw nests with naturally occurring levels so long NOT ADDED in during processing; only the downstream products remain a concern (in red)
Maybe both the ministers are not from 2 different countries? How come same matter but 2 different conclusions?
PS sorry s/b.... Maybe both the ministers are from 2 different countries?

This post has been edited by Cergau: Jan 17 2012, 04:05 PM

Hi CK,
Last you were here you were abt to go look for a tall building to take a flight...you still here means u grew wings ah?
U now can also cling to NP to build nest also?

Nice of you to drop by for the EBN funeral service.
The chanting monks sounded like this to me .....
Ohhm Asa ToMa
Saga Maya
Asa Toma Sakit Mata
(Translated as below...yes I can selectively remember sanskrit)

Surrender not to em scoundrels
EBN may still reach the shores of the middle kingdom
By path of least resistance

Just occured to that fatman...read what he said .......here......

BTW anyone in for a GROUPON effort for a submarine? or a fleet of them?
We can safely operate them until a license/certification is required by some other ministry OR
until they successfully make those Navy ones operate properly OR
until the Malaysian Maritime Enforcement Agency planes can operate

Dun be so harsh on yourself, do you really think you could have STOPPED any of this from happening?
You have said many times...it's greed...it's the scoundrels' parents who failed.
For the new year I hope they all choke on their duit haram.

Robbery FYI....You can be accurately targeted by use of an RFID reader.
This is the 'data confidentiality' issue with the use of RFID which I think the govt will try cover their arse with a new legislation sometime later.
How nice if all RM500 bills have RFID embedded in them...I wanna to take up a new profession!
Imagine the headlines... robbery suspect shot dead by xxxxx errrr... holding an RFID reader
....errr which was mistaken for a fat gun.
Of course samurai sword was also found in the car!!!

Guys, my apologies..I suggested GROUPON as a joke to buy submarine ...not to sell.
But since sifu CK mentioned selling, it also caught my interest...did some reading.. this to share...
There's ton to read but I thk 2 statements frm their FAQ very well describes it.

What is Groupon?
Each day, Groupon features unbeatable deals on the best stuff to do, see, eat, and buy in your city. By promising businesses a minimum number of customers, we secure discounts you won't find anywhere else. We call it "collective buying power"! We also feature Groupon Now!™, which offers deals to be used immediately after purchase.
Groupon negotiates huge discounts—usually 50-90% off—with popular businesses. We send the deals to thousands of subscribers in our free daily email, and we send the businesses a ton of new customers. That's the Groupon magic.

After all the fat man says 3 certs for export
1KG per tourist to prevent smuggling
That implies 1kg per carry on is not considered exporting

PS CK pls dun call me sifu,
Like I say I no sifu,I tipu...
U know I dun hv a BH..I stay around in the hope 1 of u rich sifus will donate 1 to me someday

PS2 anyone.....is the Perhilitan export fee still in place?

Unc WW,
DVS is under Ministry of Agriculture and Ago Ind.
The inclusion of additional ministry is not abt their performance, it's about jurisdiction.
Health matters (PPM?) cannot go under MOA so we have MOH in the pic now.
As to the 1stopcentre ...(my joke abt 1 cert/chip rules them all?)
It's feasible & w/o any of the ministry or depts losing their face-time nor their job and still yet appear to customers like us as a 1stopcentre. It can all be done through any computer.
Of course if 'PERMANDUH/DRIVER' is coordinating this, it will probably cost a billion no less.

I agree, but this is merely to survive. Very important nevertheless.
Some have already shared...are the Chinese consumers still buying?
Things will only recover when their confidence returns.
If koloh's observations are accurate..then they are still buying but bureaucrats on both sides are hindering the trade for their mutual benefit. As such the current local price for raw EBN is artificial and distorted.
How to fix? I dun know! My unsolicited humble observation is this...
If u wish to do something yrself.. I would advocate responding to any negative mainland Chinese report (past and current) with bare facts like (there is no need to spin at all)
1)NANO2 in EBN occurs naturally
2)is soluble in water and is reduced with prewashing
3)no one eats it in the raw form anyway..if they do it's the wrong way to enjoy EBN's natural goodness
Folks appreciate transparency and honesty and DO NOT underestimate the power of the net.

Pls go check if what was reported in our local media on the above points are picked by the Chinese media there.
If none, it smells doesn't it?. Then all the more we should bombard them with the facts in their alternative media.
Sadly I dont do Chinese So you chaps who can got to do it.
Choking on their APs I hope

Yes, it's not a monopoly...IT'S A CARTEL which is equally bad or worse since there's hints of conflict of interest.
was thinking the same thing...since there are hints of conflict of interest and presumably will thwart such efforts and the only people we can legally remove are the politicians...SO??????? you know I know when the time comes
We have tried shouting for a long time to no avail...so get people who are not deaf!!!!! and genuinely care for the ordinary folks.

Unc WW,
What baffles me is this ...
How does he think he can export to China (my presumption since u mention 3 certs) when they have not even finalised the acceptable PPM?
All this uncertainties certainly breeds many more 'consultants'.

And if you were to reflect on some of the recent press conferences by that minister it gets even more mind boggling
His statement seem to imply that once the processors get all 3 certs, it's good for a period.
How can that be when each harvest and from diff BH will be different?
The MOH cert certifies the EBN....... NOT the processing plant!!!!
eg below
The minister said the company which obtained the three quality certifications would be allowed to use the "1Malaysia Best" brand on their swiftlet nest products, but they also had to identify a strategic partner in China to ease the trade and monitoring process.

While we labour a way out of the pit ... the big timers are shoveling away the very earth we stand on
Robber-baron Socialism to the Che Det Consensus.

I can't take any more bad news for the week.

Yes, CK, there's where I humbly think one can break the perceived stranglehold.
More exporters, more competition, fairer pricing!

The main issue is PPM, once that is known and you can achieve it, theoretically there shdn't be an issue of MOH issuing you the cert. BUT BEWARE..as I recall at the PutraJaya dialog, MOH seems to be pushing for certified processing plants. This need to be clarified.
My point of contention is ...
the issue is purity of the EBN.
If you can clean it to their agreed PPM (and lab tested to certify it) on your own w/o going to the 'certified processors' what's the value addition of being certified?
OK being certified you get the 1MalaysiBest logo, so what what if one doesnt want that logo, some more can be faked!!
As per your prev post it then calls into question the need for RFID, GPS and other nonsense!

I still stand by my assertion in V3 (I think) over the use of RFID... that EBN can be 'disassembled' and subsequently reassembled...so what the heck is a label on a box? It doesn't even attach to the EBN to prevent disassembly!!!!!
I agree with that chap who challenged the RFID thing at PutrJaya, RFID may not be a fit for EBN, maybe fit for other stuff eg maybe a branded tyre to avoid fakes cos' you can't disassemble a tyre and put it back to look the same. Even if you can it will not be economically viable.

And.. another of your friend say...
"If you want change how can you keep doing the same thing the same way over and over and still expect to see different results?"
It's also another definition for insanity!!

Uncle WW,
When an 8 foot tall hairy guy bulging with muscles tells you your breath stinks..
Would one respond to his face..."your mother's breath also stinks what???"

His mother's and one's stink does not make it NOT stink.
One would have failed to resolve the issue and still get bashed up as a bonus

If they tangle with the USA and win what is Malaysia to them?
We cannot talk as equals!!
We grovel and beg!!!!!
Unless you have something to bargain with...what ...the twin towers?

This post has been edited by Cergau: Jan 19 2012, 08:29 PM

It's a movie!!!
Seriously I agree; there are plenty of exceptions in life.
But not in this case.


Yes I do recall this story shared on this forum awhile back and I applauded you for it then.
And I applaud you here again.

Unc WW,
Of course we can take the case to the WTO or maybe World Court (dun know if China is a signatory or not) Do you want to?
What exactly is your complain? What injustice has been thrown at you.
That China customs has stopped all EBN exports from us w/o reason thus unfair?
Remember ....the local China Embassy Trade rep has explained in the press... China has NEVER banned EBN from Malaysia. They have merely returned EBN that has cancer causing NaNO2.
Yes you can plead, our std 30PPM, and UN agency xxxPPM. Yeah so what, neither of these are binding on China.
Plenty of samples tested for more than 30PPM, so that doesn't help either.

It was more a case of our govt (MOH) insisting that we must obtain a cert certifying the NaNO2 content which is still to be agreed upon. So....who is stopping export. Technically our MOH!!!!
But taken as a whole it's Chicken and Egg isn't it?

My apologies for my bad example with the bad-breath example.
What I meant to say was...2 wrongs dun make 1 right
"You claim we send EBN with NaNO2 to you BUT you also send preserved stuff with NaNO2 to me what?"
Is it OK to cont sending cancer causing agent to each other?...NO, but cannot eliminate....we agree on a level not toxic according to current science.

Other than a bad way to start a negotiation, we are not in a position to tit-for-tat.
Who loses more when both countries each ban the stuff in question?
See?.... we do not have equal bargaining power in this case.
That's why we ended up fixing only EBN but not the preserved food stuff.

Or Maybe China feel like displaying some cynical humanity & offer to fix all the preserved stuff to a agreeable content but wishes to deal with this ALL as a package (after all you complain abt the preserves stuff in the same breath). You wanna wait??????
See the error...it was almost committed officially in the press.......here.....

“China wants zero part per million (PPM) content. The blood nests have been recorded to have up to 2,000 PPM and our white nests have around 30 to 80 PPM. However, there are also products from China which have around 300 PPM.

“A small amount of nitrate isn’t dangerous because it can be found in pickles, sausages and other salted meats,” said Abdul Aziz.

But I do not know if this complain abt their preserved stuff was official lodged with the Chinese...if so.. die some more lah!!!

Most can guess the scene when the dust settles...
1)EBN requires more lab sampling for purity and additional cleaning if required and thus more costs
2)Tolls, more non-value adding bureaucracy & cartel pricing in place
3)Long road to rebuild consumer confidence and ex-farm price

How sad... what I feared during the Wild Life Conservation Bill 2010 fiasco
Has I think now come to pass ...my words then ....here....
"For those of you who continue to think that there's no sense in folks wanting to sink the boat they are in with you....
Think again, harder this time....to milk the golden goose, you don't kill it, you merely threatened it.
Not all are supposed to die, most are just wounded sufficiently to recover to crawl back into your rightful place.
Else there is nothing to milk."
I still hope I was and am mistaken alas, right or wrong the end result remain the same.

Customer is always right anyway
They insisted on RED ones, so some went through additional effort to give them red
Now they don't want red, no problem...
Ring! ring! Wai? yes.arrr. yes...sorry bad reception, say again!! how many tons white ?

Wishing all of you who celebrate 'Gong Xi Fa Cai'
And those who don't, have a pleasant holiday