We all know that:
Nitrates (NO3) are naturally occurring compounds that are created when plants break down nitrogen. When Bacteria attack nitrates and breakdown into nitrites.
Nitrates naturally found in green leafy vegetables and root vegetables. Drinking water also have nitrates and meat for the table also have nitrate or nitrite.
To prevent poisoning and bacteria growth, we used nitrites and food without nitrites may contain bacteria or poison that are harmful to man so ever thought of that birdnest without nitrites can kill??
So, if food products and birdnest product stated that “without Nitrites” be safe or not to take cos Nitrite can be easily wash away but some of the poison and bacteria are not so friendly.
So, I need to ask the expert here, to buy birdnests without nitrites and worried about bacteria and poison or to buy birdnests with nitrite and rinse and dilute it; which is better?
Still, I can’t understand the present crisis is all about of something that has been eaten for centuries and suddenly becoming unsafe for consumption and have you ever heard of anyone dying of nitrites from eating birdnests and what’s if someone die of eating nitritefree birdnest due to bacteria or poisoning; would it start a new round of trouble for the birdnests?
I maybe stupid but 1+1=2, that I know and how come I still don’t understand?

Coming to export problem………China insist on the chip reference on all EBN exported to China but 90% of these nests are illegally exported anyway. The chip are to trace the source of the nests and will the chip help. Answer is “NO” cos even with chip on the BH will not always mean that the nests are from the BH. Middlemen buying the nests may has one BH and buying from other BHs without chip will be cheaper and just by using his chip, he can export the nests. So, what for the chip and I heard that it’s the Health Department requirement of the Chip and not the V Department . How the Health Department becoming interested in EBN and my guess must be the money? If EBN only worth RM100/Kg then no authority wound be interested in EBN at all.

Just last week, the valuation Department Officers came to visit me and ask about how many Kilo of nests can be collected per year for the building. If I am not mistaken, the new Assessment Fee will go up according to the value of the nests and no more due to the location or rental received like before.
Good Gracious, as if we have no problem at hand and more and more Government Departments will be visiting us soon and you can mark my words.

Coming to License for BHs, so far no many States adopt the GP1 and allow the BHs to stay legally but some districts do imposed temporary Licenses to BHs to stay.

Why the temporary Licenses and the excuse is that they haven't come out with the GP1. So, as long as they don't issue you licenses, they will still be collecting temporary license fee and these temporary licenses aren't cheap either; Pekan charges RM600 per floor and if you have 3F, you pay Rm1800 just for temporary license and many BHs that didn't pay are still around.

So, to pay or not to pay. Not paying may find your BHs demolish but so far after 3 years of paying temporary license, no news or sign about the real license and what is the reason for the issuing of temporary license or just a Majlis way to get money.

Hi, TF,

Tiger hunters and oil palm thieves are two different group of people.; Tiger hunters are rich men as they own gun and they don't go for oil palm which are for the poorer group who had spend all on car or motorcycle but can't afford the high petrol these days...but wanna show off to GF.

But the idea of fake tiger is just for experiment cos the newspaper said that it worked for the guy who used the method to scare off monkeys so I just wanted to know if it really work and if someone here did try out and work. So, why not cos it's cheap, environment friendly and no animal ( mind you that many of these predators are protected species also) will need to be killed to save our fortune and future.

Many here must have seen dead owls, snakes and others on high voltage electrical fence surrounding the BH...but the main predator(M) haven't been seen dead.

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Added on March 31, 2012, 2:09 pmI have seen and encountered shrews. Few years ago, there was a shrew in my shop and we trapped it with a cage mouse trap. Now, a mini market next to my shop has shrews.

Thing that I found out was shrew moves fast and straight like a train and I believe that shrew must be almost blind and they move fast but able to avoid corners only at the last second so catching one, you must be very fast............yes! if I am not mistaken, I did used burned cooked fish head as bait.


This post has been edited by West Wing: Mar 31 2012, 02:09 PM

Sorry, I did phone up a Dato on the matter on export as all are aware of it now and that is our PM was in China and the Chinese part has agreed to 30ppm and make it into a standard and will incooperate into Law...and we may be able to export in during one month time.

The only matter is that all nests exported shall be processed nests and no longer unprocessed nests and the Dato told me that in his view, this is the better solution and Malaysian shall control our own future in EBN.

All I can do is to cross my fingers and hope for the best. After all, many buyers are underwater nests into China anyway............. Only if the authorities make it easier to become a legal exporter for the nests.

And ...if it's the truth and confirmed so, then there will be no processing plant in China and the Chinese in the trade may want to buy processing buz or JV here to process nests to send back to China...hope I did get this right?

This post has been edited by West Wing: Apr 2 2012, 01:06 PM

Yes, I too concur with you that wetness do cause nitrite level to increase and all processed or not are ship wet to prevent breakage. So, how to solve this or are we going to add preventive chemical into the nests?

More than a year ago, I was in China and a EBN processing factory owner told me that he can help me to take my nests to China from Malaysia but at least, 50KG and he will deliver to anywhere in Guangzhou processed and at the same weight....without any fee or service charges.

I was surprised and asked him how he make his money, he will take off my hand in Malaysia dry nests and would give me same amount of processed wet nests in China with all certifications and documents if required.
I still believe that he must have exchange the nests inorder to make profit as we must also take into account for losses from cleaning nests...or that he must have added additional weight to the nests.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Apr 5 2012, 04:58 PM

Most of methods in discussion are for other industry and none suitable for EBN cleaning.......

like ultrasonic, mainly for small items and used extensively in electronics manufacturing of ICs and LEDs for cleaning materials before bonding. They use ultrasonic with cleaning chemical like freon to clean material to ensure proper bonding of silicon chip on to the metal.

Here, we need the nests to remain the same shape less feathers, dirt and Ns...more easier said than done. I tried ultrasonic and many other method but none seem to be 100% cleaned and now, we also need to remove nitrites. Todate, the best way that I find is to break up the nests and then reassemble it back, then you get almost perfectly nests free from feathers. Agrred with you that !00% featherless nests can only be obtain by making nests into cake form unless you want to use hydrogen peroxide to bleach the nests...but then the nests will smell different from the original nests.

That's my finding and hope other do have better way to clean nests 100% without destroying its shape.

Not much nests in the market now or else, buyers won't come almost weekly looking for EBN. They are desperate for nests but not willing to offer high price but profit must be good otherwise, they wouldn't be coming weekly cos not as if time and petrol are Free...........

One buyer came to see me 3 times on the same day as I wasn't at home and I need to tell him that I don't have any nest as I just sold off my nests just to not let him disturb my peace.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Apr 7 2012, 03:58 PM

Totally agree with you. Give credit when needed and criticized the wrong.

Of all the Govt. leader, I truly believe that PM is the only one that have our BHs at heart without personal agenda. So far, I am right about PM and BHs and I hope that he remain our leader and friendly toward this industry. I ready don't much care about his advisers on this industry cos if they did right, we won't be still suffering now.......

Yeah..........same as the cow buz, buying up complex in Singapore with the intention of making Malaysia, the biggest exporter in beef in Asia, maybe.....even thought the company has only the ability to provide less than 10% for Malaysia.....Yeah, like buying up NASA with the intention of putting Malaysia Flag on Mar ........... reason, buying up NASA cos it is cheaper to buy now then later............but in 100 year, when we really can, all NASA has are all scape metal.

Only stupid people will buy it......and the greatest grand master of it is DM. Anyway, CHinese saying " Listening make the Balls happy" my opinion only!

For fellow with alot of nests, 2K or 4K don't cause any hardship as when you are successful, 1K per KG already profitable but why are we make to earn less but if it's GOD work; we understand but if it's human greed, that's we are against!

More than 50% of BH owners are below par having lesser than 1K nests and creating so much difficulties and trouble for them really hurt and kill them and me @ heart, too. For me, it's not the money, but the sad feeling for our poor fellow brothers in difficulties cause by greedy men and that's what make me mad and furious.

Don't build anymore BH for Goodness sake unless the Government really and honestly support us.......if interested, buy up already buildup BHs and many BHs are for sales and they are really cheap..........don't need to get into the trouble like me. After one year and the BH still not ready and anyway, I am in no hurry as it will hurt me more if it's not successful and worst, if it's successful and letting others make more than me on my nests.

Many BH owners came and talk about lacking of nests here and in Indo, the biggest producer of EBN ......... blaming on weather, Climate changes and new BHs at agriland. Coming to shortage of new birds, have you ever wonder if no one is breeding swiftlets, where got new bird???? Do we really think that swiftlets really are from heaven????

I swear that I breed swiftlets and never have destroyed a swiftlet's egg or chick intentionally. Can anyone here can swear the same? Some do but the most don't and we, the minority owners unselfishly share our birds with the larger number of BHs.

So, we experiencing lesser nests and now, we experiencing worst trouble in lower price and very selective buying by the buyers. Double blow at the most sensitive part, I would say.

When can we enjoy Double happiness; increment of nests and also price!

Here susah, there susah so let talk about something not susah.

Can someone here answer the following Questions?

1. When does a swiftlet start laying egg?

2. How many years can a swiftlet live isn't very important but how long can a swiftlet lay eggs?

3. Will the old female swiftlets unproductive ( we men always have Vgra to help,don't we and still strong even till 90+) ........ still return to BH....no. 3 is just a joke and you may not answer it.

A little of the past which I share…….
When I first started swiftlets ranching, the population of swiftlets at cave were getting lesser and lesser………..gone are the millions that we once knew. As we started the BH concept for swiftlets although swiftlets were at town years before we begin BH ranching. The swiftlets were building nests in old shop houses and even the shop owners didn’t know then that those were edible nests and the owners tried so hard to get rid of the swiftlets because of the shit these birds laid usually in the shop upper floor but these stubborn swiftlets still returned (Remembered that I have said that we move, swiftlets never move that the example). Most Chinese allowed Swallow to stay then because the swallows shit at the five foot way as Swallow bring Good Luck according to Chinese belief but never take kindly to swiftlets as the swiftlet always shit in the shop itself. I remembered that one person took some nests to a Chinese medical shop but was told that these nests were of no value and my friend fed the nests to the dogs and the dogs also didn’t like the nests. Then, even medical shop owner didn’t know that these were the same as cave nests that they sold in their shop….which they called “Golden Swiftlets Nests”. To old Chinese, Swiftlets are the same like Swallows as Yen; only golden Yen or Grass Yen. Olden days, they even refer to Swiftlets as Hai Yen "Sea Swiftlet" and Birdnests as Hai yen Wao.

When we found that these nests are very valuable, everyone started to protect the swiftlets from harm and once, I told a friend that we treat the swiftlets better than our wife and children but then, cannot blame us cos they are the swiftlets Alias Choy San Yeh that bring us wealth. Some even added Air Condition, fountain and high security system to the BH but only to find out that the swiftlet didn’t like Air Con.
With the protection, came the huge increment of swiftlets and in just one BH, 10 nests became hundreds and then thousands but it lasted for many years until problem started again as human greed follow buyers best quote that is the market demand quality white nests and farmers are starting to throw away eggs and chicks and if these continue, or we are already experiencing it; we shall see a huge reduction of swiftlets soon ….as old birds die out without any new generation of swiftlets to replenish. Before, we see at least 3 folds in the increment of nests per year and now, where have all the swiftlets gone……..to heaven as Chinese believe that they are from heaven. Well, we can always blame it on everything but ourself.
With the latest requirement in PPM, worst will happen to the population of swiftlets and all ranchers will be require to only produce quality white nests as nitrate or nitrite originate from birds shits and now, swiftlets must be trained to shit outside of the birdhouse and that chicks must learn to ensure no residue shit in nests otherwise, all chicks and eggs must be discarded and remove from the nests to get to the present quality required by the buyers..
As a sanctuary provider for swiftlets, I maybe among the firsts to be in the trade but certainly, I shall be the first to be out of the trade………………. Unless, my BHs be categorize differently from the rest and must be under the wildlife department that no harm should come to the protected species……..including the destruction of chicks and eggs.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Apr 14 2012, 04:47 PM

Sometime, I really wonder if I did talk too much or rather, over concerned about the future of BHs @ town.

For the past few months, I have been trying hard to convince the YB's secretary that the YB must and should have a dialog with us, the BHs owners on the future of Bhs @ town. I gave many reasons on why he should see us and no one know how hard I tried to convince the secretary to hold this dialog.

Reason is that I told her that the BH owners would vote for the opposition not because they are pro opposition but that the BH owners are scare that the BN will demolish the BHs once the election is over.

I wanted assurance from the horse mouth that no such thing would happen to the BHs @ town. When the YB called for a dialog, I wasn't inform but on the eve of the meeting, I was informed by a BN leader that the meeting has been cancelled due to the YB unable to attend.

Hey, Why wasn't I inform of the meeting and also all the members; reason is because the Committee don't want me there as they don't want the YB to be offended..all because I talk too much!!!!!!!

I helped to get the YB to have the meeting with us and yet I was to be excluded!!!! Walau! ini pun boleh!!! A Club that I started but now think that I meddle too much in the affair of the trade but leaving it all to them may kill us all for their "wait and see" altitude. I want to see if Fire start at their BH doors and how are they going to prevent the burning of BHs @ town...I mean demolishing of BHs @ town. Agriland BHs should have no worry but must concern with the licensing fee and condition requirement which I find very unpractical and absurd.

Oh GOD...I am giving up for good and wouldn't get involve in the Swifltet matter again even they pay me well to do it again. No problem if my BHs @ town demolish cos all go too to TBT......or all swiftlets to Holland.

So, for you elsewhere, never just leave the decision to your Association's BOD, ensure that they take decision and action to protect your BHs now and not to wait until all become a Law and then, you cry and blame the Association but remember, you elected the BODs, if they fail,change the leader. We have members here talking the same," Since we elected the BOD, let them take care of us".........remember, it's your future that they are gambling and not their's only.

As always, I may talk too much, listen only to those you think are correct and ignore those you think wrong.

Let me say what I think are correct.

1. More than 90% of Local Authorities are against the industry @ town.
2. Reasons
a. Blame it on the sound disturbance
b. Raayat complaints usually on the loud sound, day and night.
c. The most importance of all, personal agendas like buying huge land to build swiftlets parks. For this reason, the authorities cooperate with big guys to buy up cheap govt. land under "JV" and build BHs for sale. No birds? what better way is to get the birds from the source i.e the town which are pioneer in the industry and therefore, having the most of birds.

Consultants advice the local government to kill all BHs at town to populate the BHs at swiftlets parks. Also, by destroying all Bhs at towns will force the BHs owners to buy BHs at swiftlets parks. Killing 2 birds with one stone. Bright idea but the consultants never told the gmen that by destroying the BH @ town doesn't mean that the birds will fly to the nearest swiftlet park. These birds may either stay put or they may just fly away far even to Thailand or Indonesia. To destroy BHs@town is simple cos there are certainly many reasons for it and we, BHs assisted them in many ways like blasting the sound, days and nights as if we own the whole town..... Alas, we have state MB proudly proclaimed that our state shall be the best Swiftlet region in Malaysia by approving many swiftlets parks all over. Where to get the birds??? Definitely, must from you and me.

You all remember that one well known Consultant even boosted that he is able and can assured that the birds move. Words don't mean anything but deed do. Research well in it and proven your theory right and correct before you teach others of your ways, not preaching your ideas and let others be fools to try them for you and when fail, who suffer? The IQ low guys who just follow like sheep and pay for the experiment. Apology if hurt cos I didn't mentioned anyone in particular here.

3. The authorities think that BHs are making alot of money and they all get greedy and want a share of it. Tax this and that on BH owners but why not also tax the Banks, Gold shop and so many that make even more. All because they have the reasons and excuses to do so on us.........and even agriland BHs won't be spare either and I wonder why. Why not also raise taxes on chicken, goat and cow owners plus presently many millionaires from Oil Palm. These industries even get Gmen grants, incentives and even free land. We only ask the Gmen to let us have freedom and that's not much to ask.

“Just as treasures are uncovered from the earth, so virtue appears from good deeds, and wisdom appears from a pure and peaceful mind. To walk safely through the maze of human life, one needs the light of wisdom and the guidance of virtue.”

“Teach this triple truth to all: A generous heart, kind speech, and a life of service and compassion are the things which renew humanity.”

Qoutes from Buddha

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Added on April 17, 2012, 12:30 pm{once i approach a farmer n questioned him what he did is wrong, he ask me, so, since u are so compassionate with beings....are u a full vegetarian?..u eat meats or not? u eat eggs or not? ohh....u eat??....so, u are selectively compassionate is it? the birds show u the money so u show humane with them n chicken eggs or meats don't show the money n u can eat them n feel good about it?
i shut my mouth....he is right.) Quote CHANK.

My friend, He is very wrong as chicken, goats or cows are breed for table and even egg but the all eggs have no life meaning not fertilized. So, I can proudly proclaim that my birdnests are halal and can be consume by all inrespective of religions. Can others? One Buddhist follower did came to talk to me on this matter and why I certified that my nests can be consume by true Buddhist as all bird nests contain no life. I told him that although, birdnests contain no life but during harvesting, they took away life then that nests can never be consume by pious men who truly believe in their belief. I can say so as I harvested my own nests and surely can assured that my nests harvested without destroying any life; thus Halal and safe for consumption. Also, my processed nests are assured 100% pure from any impurities, bleeching and additives, harmful or otherwise.

Here, in BH, we don't breed the swiftlets and even feeding them and so, we just provide them with a safe sanctuary to breed. For that purpose, we demand very high service charges. Swiftlets do not require our BHs to live but they only use the BHs for breeding. Their home are in the sky and for that only reason, they need a safe haven for their offsprings unless the swiftlet find a way lay eggs in the cloud. Then, swiftlets will have no use of us and they will no longer need legs.

In our unwritten agreement with swiftlets, we are to provide them with a safe place to breed and in return, we have their used nests for our services.

SOS ( Save Our Swiftlets)

Yours Faithfully,
SSP


This post has been edited by West Wing: Apr 17 2012, 12:30 PM

All the authorities need is to supervise and educate the processing plants. Let the processing plant/buyers compulsory registering the source of EBN if required.....in their log book.

Why RFID Chips.....wasteful and useless..in near future, these Chips will be white Elephant as usual. If no choice and must buy, can we buy our own Chip from China cos maybe @ 5% of the price, I guess.

In the Pre-Election Fever, some many NGOs have been approached by political parties to hold sponsored gathering and why our NGO swiftlets Associations have been left out?

Are you kidding? The Association will find so difficult to obtain the 3 certificates in order to export and many have tried hard even engaging experts/professional in the field and spend tens of thousands and still await on final approval after a year. I have a suggestion that one of us or the Association JV with influential mainland Chinese to buy nests and process and only thru this way, we can bypass our present Gmen requirements.

If they want to control and they will find many reasons for doing so and prevent you from doing so ..........we are not talking about hundreds, thousands but millions ringgits of profit here and possible Billions if all goes well with their plans............

Like in everything that make huge profit, they will try to get. Ask Sugar King on why he gave up suger Buz then and now, what the price after he gave up the Sugar Buz here...........it's all about who is in power.

And you think the present Opposition will be different; you are dreaming cos only from a boiling pot not into the fire but into another pot going to boil......giving sometime to relax only. Some will console oneself that at least, we have the extra off time to heal the wound.......before we again will be hit right left and up down.

He must be trying to be funny or ..........as Free thing including seminars are never Free. Why everyone now are harvesting nests faster than the birds can put the eggs in so that the nest will remain white........later, it will turn slightly brownish or if you prefer to call it yellowish. Later, it will become brownish and worth less than half the price of the white.

Expose the nests to sun , the white nests will turn to brownish or reddish if the the nests are initially slightly pinkish. How to determine if your nests are pinkish, just direct your light on the nest in your BH and if the reflection is pinkish, then the nest will become reddish if expose to sunlight for some time.

If you preserve a nest well like I did with some of the first time nests for remembrances (more than 15 years), they turn to slightly yellowish but very brittle cos it's so dry...but they never become Golden. If they do, I shall be very much richer.

From experience, very clean and white nests will only become yellowish if preserve well but never golden. I tried for 15 years but maybe a hundred years, who know cos by then you and I are all gone.

Hope you find my information well.

Those who were @ Trg official Opening of the Perladang EBN Buying Centre will regret that they went as I did. After spending afew min there I left the room cos its full of bird shit and politic.

I went into their buying office and saw some nests on the table and asked how much is a Kg for the nests. The man told me that it's all depend on the quality and immediately, I took one pc of a very white less feather bigger nest and asked him what was the price per Kg for that nest.

Oh, he said that that's Grade B ( To me it's Grade A but not Super) and only Rm1600/Kg. If like that, most of your nests will fall below Rm1600 and your white round cup may only get you around Rm1200 and my corners......no more than Rm800/Kg.

So, please help to prevent these guys from successfully getting the monopoly of buying nests otherwise, your nests may not worth a Rm1K soon. One more buyer is good but if the intention is to allow them to have full monopoly of securing our nests.........over our dead bodies.

Sell to buyer as one buyer just came to see me and offer Rm2500 for AB nests.....but I am still not selling but will consider Rm2800.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Apr 23 2012, 06:25 PM

I forget that Coolandy, you were there and did sit thru the whole political show.....At the later stage, did you shouted "BN Boleh!!!" Hahahaa as I wasn't there; I went out just less than 15 mins there and went to KT town for some air and return an hour later for fellowship tea.

I noticed that there are so many Bumi BH owners, at least in Trg. but many are quite new to the industry. At the tea break, I hardly can find a place to sit and I did sat among a table of Bumi BH owners and after introducing each others, we have a discussion like good friends on BH management and knowledge on BH. Gradually, they were all listening to me and asking me questions instead and afew invited me to go to their BHs nearby but I forcefully declined their invitation as I was with my fellow BH owners and need to return back home after the tea. I found that these men are quite new to the industry from their line of questionings but their BHs results are truly wonderful.

If you tell me that there are no new birds, you are surprised that they have wonderful tales and one told me that his only BH is only 3 months old and having over 15 nests. On day one, there were over 100 birds flying in and out of his BH; must be a good location or very good bird sound or "Baby cry" sound that had such wonderful effect and result at the present time. Maybe, we must be looking at the wrong place to invest or wrong sound or ?????????