The state of the birdnest industry is in a funk. Think this just happen in this field? There are many political warlords jv with unscrupulous business interests to loot from the top. Lynas is a prime example and its the elephant in the room where the gov is behaving as though the elephant does not exist but do not know how to make it disappear.

Crony capitalism is as bad as dogmatic communism; they are both evil and should all go to hell for the sake of the general populace. Malaysia wanted to look east; perhaps it meant the Philippines with Marcos the Great Kleptomaniac as the model? Philippines used to be the country in South Asia with the greatest potential for development but after being robbed blind by its many corrupt leaderships, it has huge percentage of its population living in poverty while a tiny elite became obscenely wealthy. For those who gained their wealth by corruptions or force, the gates of hell is specially widen to receive them for their crimes against humanity.

This post has been edited by philoswiflet: Aug 11 2012, 06:57 PM

I've tried Ultrasonic humidifiers and they are troublesome equipments because of clogging and the blower fan went out or the power supply got problems... now two of my ultras are out of action... I'm tired of seeing them out and the need to do repairs... I think its possible still to make use of one by mixing and matching them into one working equipment... but I'm tired of the unreliability, the frequent breakdowns due to various reasons... and when they are down... and you don't know about it... it will cause humidity to go down drastically... so my love affair with ultras is basically over... do stick with the good old reliable humidifiers... I think the ultras are more expensive and overrated.

Just think, if you are going into battle, would you go with a thoroughly time tested and battle proven firearm or would you go in with a supposedly better and fancy firearm that might not work well such as jam at the critical time when you come face to face with your adversaries?

I think to prevent temp from dropping too low... I think it might help to do so via 2 methods which may have its faults:

1) Make a partition to shield nesting rooms from cold wind; the installing of a big partition should be gradually done to prevent old birds from crashing into it and killing themselves and also make sure it will not hamper new birds from going in. The partition best be movable type so that you can gradually move the partition to close up the space. Fix a few external tweeters at the end of the partition to guide the birds so as not to crash into the partition.

2) Use an autogate to close entrance at night but the autogate should have a few small holes to enable birds to exit and enter in case of power failure or autogate failure.

This post has been edited by philoswiflet: Aug 16 2012, 06:58 AM

Hi tiger,

I guess the placing of a partition is cheap and easy to do but then it will hinder the new or visiting birds from venturing in... so how? Unless you want to use autogate to close and open the movable partition? I'm just throwing out ideas here and not sure it will raise the temp. In China, sometimes they build a wall to prevent cold wind blowing into house during cold or winter season.

In western countries, you can easily get heater that can warm up to a small radius such as a small room; its like a few rods that glow once the switch is on and transmit heat out... don't know whether this type of gadget is practical for your farm or not. Or maybe you can rig a water heater than can go through iron pipe and help to heat up the place?

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Added on August 17, 2012, 7:50 pmFor general notice: Anwar is having a live "borak" session on youtube tonight at 10:30PM

This post has been edited by philoswiflet: Aug 17 2012, 07:50 PM

Pathetic for farmers; a steal for the traders!
Have no idea when things will eventually improve for us poor farmers!
Whatever will be will be, the future not ours to see, queer sera, sera.

This post has been edited by philoswiflet: Aug 23 2012, 03:35 AM

I think buyers are taking advantage of the dismal market to press down the price. Some would quote a reasonable prices over the phone but when they see the nests, they would say only a small portion is liable for the price they quoted earlier and offered a much lower prices for the rest.... The lower the prices they buy, the higher their profits... the market place is a killing field where fairness did not rank high on the agenda.

So far as I understand, the RFID matter was anxiously debated during the 30-8-12 meeting at Putrajaya and at one gut wrenching moment, the whole thing come to the point where the scheduled signing of the agreement might not take place at all... and where that will leave us poor farmers with things continue to be in limbo for god knows how much longer?

So finally, a compromise was arrived at whereby there was a caveat on the RFID matter in which other systems of traceability were proposed besides RFID, this will of course to be negotiate with China counterparts. At least with the signing of the agreement, things can move along even as we work at doing amendment to the agreement. Traceability was generally acknowledged by all and sundry as of critical importance for health and safety reasons; the only differences was the method(s) by which it can be implemented... the method(s) as a matter of necessity, had to be accepted by the consuming and producing parties.

That the requirement for RFID or other system of traceability was only required for processing plants and not at bird houses was a major concession for the majority of swiftlet farmers as otherwise, it would entail extraordinary difficulties as well as expenses. This victory was achieved when several thousands of entrepreneurs; the majority of them farmers, voiced out their disagreements during the national event at Chin Woo stadium not long ago.

Since the die is now cast, do let us see how things will go as a flawed agreement is better than the continuation of the current state of affairs in which depressed prices for bird nests prevailed and two suicides in Malaysia had been reported and said to be related to the prolong slump in this industry. The ministry of agriculture stated that after this agreement went through, they will get on with the issue of raw unclean nests export for which interest the majority of the swiftlet farmers in Malaysia are especially interested in.

This post has been edited by philoswiflet: Sep 6 2012, 07:33 PM

I hope we will all have a great year in 2013 once the storm that had crashed upon us for a whole year had pass with the agreement in place and the negotiation for the raw nests in the near future...

Goodbye to the incredible ill wind that blew,
may our misfortunes gone with the wind...
and may fair fortune in turn greet us with open arms!

Having been in this industry for the past several years; I can understand how sadden you must be over the failed farm. First, there was the initial euphoria and can do spirit... Blessed are those farms that succeeded because those that do not stand as a daily reminder of the promises that had gone sour. I had spend so much time and effort in my effort to resurrect my initially moribund farms that its sometimes strange to look back and see my glaring mistakes.

Now my farms at least have a foundation for them to move upward but still, there are still challenges galore. I had tried many many conceivable ideas and some work but many don't. Sometimes I felt tired and sick of the whole thing especially now when the prices suck. Still I feel good progress is rather slow in coming; not like the geometric progressions that was projected by many in this field- meaning a doubling of nests every year until the farm is full... no such luck...yet! Every single nest come not with ease. Well, there was a time about two years ago when the nest growth shoot up like a rocket... until the magical growth stop after several months.

Hope the difficulties and challenges I encountered which I related here will give you some comfort in that success in this fickle industry is not easy. Good luck to you even as I scratched my head over waiting for the nests to cross the 1,000 mark which might still be somewhere ahead... Good luck to you but you should know that while lady luck plays a part, many other variables factor in this game... location being among the highest criteria, how tall the building (in town), art and science of designing the farm... good quality tools and equipment that are reliable and get the job done... my recommendation- use the Taiwan humidifiers and not the ultras which often broke down one way or another and requires maintenance. There may be good an reliable ultras but my personal experience is not good. Mine are the DIY project using twelve ceramic heads... give me headaches! Again- good luck!

From the shared experiences of two veterans in this field; I can see that I'm not the only one starting to get somewhat fed up and tired of this swiftlet farming which was overpromised and underdelivered. I had really put in so much effort and energy and sweated, injured, and took crazy chances scrambling atop the roof area, climb overly high in the staircase landing (I'd since build a platform there) by tying two wooden ladders together! At least I managed to revive two badly failed farms.... The period when I constantly renovating in a bid to revive the farms was among the most frustrated I ever felt and worried over. Yet, I think the most heart-rending thing is the crashing of the nests in terms of the dismal low prices. If only the price can please go up to $3,000+, there would be smiles again!

In my opinion, these negative views are simply outburst born of frustrations due to the lengthy period of bearish market for nests. Once the prices move up significantly... all farmers with nests to sell will feel lively again. This is normal human psychology in which pessimism breeds more pessimism until depression sets in and hope keeps on diminishing... its like what the US said about the Vietnam war and now, the Afghanistan war in which the US is like caught inside a tunnel with no light at the end...

Let just hope the prices will go up in December and then go up another level once the second agreement on raw unclean nests is sign. I will state here for the record that this industry will surely survive and prosper, only it takes god knows how long....

This post has been edited by philoswiflet: Oct 3 2012, 08:36 PM

Market prices for EBN is still very weak. Just sold a small portion and declined to sell the rest as prices offered are ridiculous. I think it might take several more months before we can see any decent improvement contingent upon the realization of the other agreement for raw unclean nests. This is truly the winter of discontent for swiftlet farmers.

In an ideal world and society, politics should be a form of well rewarded national service in which the best and brightest take the helm and lead the rest into a world in which the interest of the minority is heeded as well as the majority; a world in which the human potentials are unleashed for the benefits not just the individuals alone but for society as a whole.

The weak and needy are help while the strong and gifted are applauded for their success which is not selfish but generous to themselves as well as to society as a whole. To reach for such an ideal society, many destructive and negative forces that try to grab resources at the expenses of others need to be confronted and overcome.

In extreme cases; conscience, human dignity and rights were severely abused and rivers of blood spilled for the avarice and ambitions of a few whom monopolized the rein of powers for evil. The pages of history reported many such creatures.... its not easy but there are brave examples of those who dared to defy the political ogres such as Philippine's Cory Aquino and Burma's Aung San Suu Kyi and the legendary Nelson Mandela...

I remember during the people power uprising in the Philippines during the late 1980s; a spokesman for the people power movement against Marcos observed that many decent people felt politics is dirty and shy away from it only to see the rein of power being usurp by the worse types of men and women... so decent and idealistic people with the aptitude and interest should take part in political life to ensure that society is not held hostage to evildoers that can easily create hell on earth...

There are such people who are ideal political helmsman; among my favorites are people such as George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, Gandhi... some were not saints such as Deng Xioaping but did more than his share of good to redress the sins he had committed... he hold the enviable record for bringing out the most number of people from the bondage of poverty... and it was Gandhi who observed that poverty is the worst form of violence. Gandhi was such a special person who walked an extremely torturous path for the sake of the oppressed... he really walk the talk... he would travel long distance across India via railway in which he insisted riding in 3rd class... along with the multitude of poor... Read the life of Gandhi whenever you feel bad as his life is an inspiration to go on against the harsh challenges you might encounter... ditto for Washington, Lincoln & Teddy Roosevelt... as well as many others...

This post has been edited by philoswiflet: Oct 8 2012, 08:17 PM

Hi xunji,

Thanks for the observations by Cicero whom as I recalled was finally killed for his acid tongue...
Politics as a profession is often denigrated as being the 2nd oldest profession... after prostitution... and many lawyers are also not far behind for their odious reputation for subverting law for their personal gains and any evil masters they serve....

And imagine the combination of both professions into one and we see the horror of horrors... like the arising of Frankenstein's Monster! At least to be a lawyer one need to study and pass exams but there is often no such legal requirement to become a politician.

But in truth, there are conscientious politicians and decent lawyers... even in Malaysia... we have such examples of a politician such as Dr Tan Chee Koon who was known as Mr Opposition... or Dr Lim Chong Eu, a truly great Malaysian leader who worked tireless as Chief Minister of Penang against great odds. As to lawyers, I had a number of unsavory experiences but see how the Bar Council come out to fight for clean election in Malaysia... and my salute to the steely Datuk Ambiga for leading the demonstrations to push for reforms in national general election.

I don't know much about Prime Minister Tun Hussein Onn but his dad-Onn Jaafar was a pioneering politician who founded UMNO but later pushed for an inclusive party for Malaysia; and Tun Hussein Onn himself was a real life war hero in the fight against the Japanese in Malaya being a member of the elite commando unit who parachuted down to fight as a guerrilla under the British forces. I remember reading in a periodical that he observed it was better to be spit in the face rather than to have people urinating over his tomb. He seemed to be the best of Malaysian crop of Prime Minister.

And soon there is on the big silver screen and on DVD: Lincoln the movie by Spielberg who used all his experiences and resources to produce a biographically accurate compelling story of one of the greatest man that ever lived... and this self made, humble, intelligent, shrewd, kindly, moral, courageous man was both a lawyer as well as a politician. Do go and see this man when the movie came up.... he well deserved his gigantic memorial up on Mount Rushmore as did George Washington and Theodore Roosevelt, Mr Thomas Jefferson is in my book, a controversial figure because there is much hypocrisy that I dislike even though he was brilliant and achieved and contributed much to the common storehouse of humanity.

Every lawyer and those who hold political positions should keep a portrait of Lincoln in their office so as to remind them daily of what it means to be a lawyer or a politician; not just make a living or worse, to loot and rob and pervert justice to the highest bidders but to help make a positive differences to not just human society but to the environment and its inhabitants (flora and fauna) as well.

So do make a date with Lincoln.

This post has been edited by philoswiflet: Oct 12 2012, 06:38 AM

Mencius said, "When Heaven is about to confer an important office upon a man, it first embitters his heart in its purpose; it causes him to exert his bones and sinews; it makes his body suffer hunger; it inflicts upon him want and poverty and confounds his undertakings. In this way it stimulates his will, steels his nature and thus makes him capable of accomplishing what he would otherwise be incapable of accomplishing."

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Added on October 13, 2012, 10:45 pmLike what tuckfook and other exponents in this forum mentioned before, I guess the best way forward for you to tackle your sick farm is to go all the way back to the start of this forum in order to study the various postings. As you know, there are also many blogs with archives... not all articles and ideas can be taken at face value but at least you have some ideas to go through. It was like the dark age in the internet in terms of info on swiflet farming several years back... at least now you have substantial amount of material to work with. Read, think, digest and winnowed the wheat from the chaffs... the main thing is to have the correct knowledge and then implement the ideas in practical terms.

Keep a notebook to write down your observations and ideas and implement those ideas that sounds logical and promising. Try to visit other farms if possible and also learn from more experienced farmers. You can of ask in this forum and in fact, many substantial answers were in fact amidst the postings; but a lot have to depend on your own initiatives. So to revive your sick farm, you need to educate yourself which requires work. Write down the essential things and criteria in order to succeed and then write down points to implement your strategies. You need to know what motivates the birds and how they move about and what makes them choose to stay at your farm... try to create ideals conditions in your farm that attract them to come and stay. Survey the equipments and gadgets, not all of them are needed and you need to think carefully about the conditions for success and then the items that are truly required for the running of a successful farm.

Having a great spot is half the battle but I know at least of a farm at a superprime area teeming with birds and yet, the farm only recorded 80+ nests after one year of operation. So the design is of critical importance and so are other matters such as micro climate and the use of sounds and aroma. Read the postings until you can get at the essence of the various matter being discussed; take notes and study the notes to understand what actions is required of you. I understand your frustrations but you need to put in more work if you wish to see your farm being revive. Nothing of value comes easily; valuable aims more often than not require much effort.

This post has been edited by philoswiflet: Oct 13 2012, 10:45 PM

Thanks for the successful seniors for enlightening us with how things will look down the road. I had often heard description of highly successful farms with the analogy of being in the presence of a swarm of bees; meaning the large number of birds inside a farm. One thing a farmer should do as his farm become increasingly populated; dismantle any unnecessary partitions so as to allow smoother flow of birds flying in the farm such as supposedly VIP rooms.

A few years back, I was so unhappy with my farm which is a total failure that I decided to enlarge the outer hole (it used to be a window type) so that it became like a extra large LCD TV... there wasn't much action the first day but the next day, I saw many birds visiting my farm... I was ecstatic but this state of affair did not last long... only for a few tantalizing days... and so it was back to the drawing board for new ideas.... I had so many down days in my career as a swiftlet farmer.... thank god I managed to fight my way into some minor successes... hope to gain greater successes hopefully by next year!

This post has been edited by philoswiflet: Oct 25 2012, 07:15 AM

There are pros and cons to the type of entries... both have their good points and weaknesses. Mine was converted to open roof a few years back and it has been a moderate success after I did many many renovations. Altogether it has been a long five years with the first two years plus wasted.

My channels of learning about this industry is wide and varied... through searching for ideas from the internet and forums; from a useless and expensive course at nesttech back in 2007 which was essentially money down the drain; from engaging the helps of "sifus" whom I paid substantial angpows; from visiting farms whenever I get the chances; from my own thinking and innovations of which many ideas failed miserably; all the tinkering take enormous efforts in terms of work and money. Success in this industry is not easy for me and I'm still doing my best to make my farms become more successful in terms of the number of nests and the quality of the nests.

This post has been edited by philoswiflet: Oct 24 2012, 06:34 AM

50 ml to 1.5 litre of water should be the right ratio when using Fendona. I spray rather sparingly and I don't have much problem with fleas and roaches.
I would clean up the guano periodically and just spray the diluted insecticide about two feet along the wall and a few areas where roaches like to hide... I basically do not spry all over the floor area... my bottle of Fendona lasted me probably two years for two farms. I think you must leave a lot of guano in your farm on the floor... you can always put the guano into large pails with water to keep the aroma strong. Steadfast is another alternative which is cheaper.

This post has been edited by philoswiflet: Oct 24 2012, 07:59 PM

Thanks to Tuckfook for his semi-scholarly lecture on the fauna in bird-farms. Science is not my forte but I did the sensible thing almost by instinct by spraying sparingly two feet along the wall from the ground and not by dispensing insecticide in a farm like the soldiers during WWI when mustard and sarin gases were used in wholesale fashion... I know of people using back pack tanks filled with insecticide which I think is overkill... unless its convenient for servicing many farms that have many floors but then maybe their farms are full capacity and more poison is require... For me, to clean up the guano on the ground is essential for hygiene for the birds and for the humans zoo-keepers.

This post has been edited by philoswiflet: Oct 26 2012, 09:18 PM