I spray fendona 2 weeks once when my worker clean the faeces. Otherwise the nests will have kutu on it. You dont spray anything? How often do you clean the faeces?

A forumer bought it early this year for RM65 in Brickfield.
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=48355816

You can't spray Fendona too often, the flea can develop resistance to Fendona. A resistance management planning must be adhere to otherwise the effectiveness of Fendona would be greatly reduced.
Spray once every quarterly to be on the safe side.

Sifu-sifu sekalian,

Do you guys know what are the "certificates' needed to enable a processing plan to be able to 'export' birdnests ?

VHM? GVMP? HACCP? and what is MITI? Whats the different between VHM and GVMP ?

Even the vets people dont know how to reply me maybe i can only ask those counters ciku....

Anyone? I buy you starbucks.. XD

Sifu WW, I started spraying Fendona because some middleman complain my nests too many 'spots' which they say is because the chicks get bitten by fleas and the tiny spots are dried blood spots.

Since I started spraying bi-weekly for past 2 months the fleas have gone down significantly, I have another BH I use as control which I don't spray and that BH has significantly more fleas.

Hi, may I know the flea u all mean here is the tiny red thingy move around inside the nest? My BH got this red color creature moving inside the nest and also some insect flying around my head light when i go into the BH. Are both type of insect can kill by fendona??

is it advisable to clean the BH on a regular basis? mine got a lot of beetles lately.

Insects and Parasites in the BH

There are many insects and parasites, as well as bacteria in any BH and it is these that maintain a balanced mini ecosystem.

On the floor, there are dung beetles that consume the bird shit.

In mid air, there are also many flying insects that are usually hatched from the feces of the birds as the birds often eat insects that are carrying eggs.

There are also other insects like cockroaches that are opportunistic that feed on the remnants of the bird shit.

If one looks carefully, it's like an insect zoo down there, on the floor of your BH.

The birds will naturally carry blood sucking parasites, as do chickens. The greater the population of birds the greater the number of such parasites.

I do not know the life cycle of these parasites but they are natural. An infestation will of course spread to any human entering the BH, similarly with a chicken farm.

There may be a connection between the bird shit on the floor with the hatching of the birds' parasites but no conclusive study has been carried out. In a chicken farm, the birds are sometimes dusted with an insecticide as well as treating the shit on the floor. The similarity in both is that the chickens and swiftlets are both elevated above the shit.

Fendona is a 'Human' safe insecticide as it is approved to be used in areas where food for human consumption is prepared, ie kitchens, restaurants etc. There are many other human safe(by following instructions) insecticides that are by far cheaper. Carbaryl, Sevin is commonly use for this purpose.

Since swiftlets never touch the ground (on purpose) it can be assumed that theses parasites climb up via the walls to infest the birds on the nests, so spraying the walls will kill all the parasites trying to infest theses birds. Continuous regular spraying the floor will destroy the balance as all insects will be killed and this may reduce the 'smell' that the birds are so happy to live with.

If you inspect a nest closely, you'll often see worms/maggots, parasites and eggs on the nests, especially the 2-3 layered nests. These are quite easily removed by first freezing the nests and then blowing them away with compressed air.

I was told about this freezing of nests as well. How long do we pop it into the freezer for? After freezing and blowing it, we need to dry it immediately right ?

Thanks to Tuckfook for his semi-scholarly lecture on the fauna in bird-farms. Science is not my forte but I did the sensible thing almost by instinct by spraying sparingly two feet along the wall from the ground and not by dispensing insecticide in a farm like the soldiers during WWI when mustard and sarin gases were used in wholesale fashion... I know of people using back pack tanks filled with insecticide which I think is overkill... unless its convenient for servicing many farms that have many floors but then maybe their farms are full capacity and more poison is require... For me, to clean up the guano on the ground is essential for hygiene for the birds and for the humans zoo-keepers.

This post has been edited by philoswiflet: Oct 26 2012, 09:18 PM

I find putting the nests in a freezer overnight convenient as I can then work in the early morning and as the sun gets hotter, the 'blown' nests are by then dry. A couple of hours under the fan will usually do the trick if it is an unusually wet morning.

BTW as the nest come out of the freezer, they have to be left a while for them to defrost or they will break up when cleaned with compressed air. Defrosting them inside the plastic bag without exposing them to the air will keep them free from condensation. A little damp nest will not break easily and the debris will not fly very far and be breathed in. You will find a big difference after cleaning with compressed air.

Overnight in the freezer so far has killed all forms of visible life on the nests.

tuckfook,

cleaning nests with air compressor is a new idea to me. May I know what sort of air compressor you use and how much it cost. When I think of air compressors; I normally think of the heavy equipments at tyre shops or workshops but I understand that there are portable models that are more suited and less expensive to bird nest farmers.

How do you avoid bacteria that are harmful to us? I would suggest to take extra precautions when dealing with more birds populated BH where I have experience of upper respiratory tract infections and prone to virus attack thereafter.

Throughout the years, I gained only the knowledge of using, from normal disposable surgical mask to 3M reusable respirator to 100% natural silk reusable before entering into the BH to carry out all routine work.

But I am taking extra precautions now with nasal spray, ear drops filled by home -generated ionic silver solution. Ionic face mask will probably be my future experiment...all for the wise old sayings, prevention is always better than cure.

With regard to maintaining a balanced ecosystem in the BH, I wonder EM should be used more than insecticide in all farms throughout the years. Think of it as our digestive system, we need to keep a balance between good and bad bacteria in check, if you kill all the bad bacteria, can you create a system conducive to the proliferation of good bacteria? or in our BH case, good bacteria/insects which our birds live with?

Cave birds live in a well-balanced ecosystem without guano cleaned entirely but that doesn't mean the same in all man-made farms and as said, it's another variation of the ecosystems.

yea.. was about to ask too wat compressed air? those used by IT techs?

Storing of bird nests in a freezer can cause freezer burn. I was informed that the resultant ebn losses its glossy nature and the ebn is a little grainy when cooked.

How true is this? Maybe some old timers can provide more info.

You can buy a small air compressor for under RM500 or a small professional model for just over RM1k.plus. The pro comp will be difficult to store or move around. Since our usage is small compared to a tyre shop, I think a small direct drive air comp will be sufficient. Some people say that the small compressor does not last as long.

The compressed air is about 100psi and used with the help of an air gun with a small long(6" approx.) reaching nozzle. This will direct the air at whatever you are trying to clean off.

Aim at about 3" away at the shit, shell fragments, some feathers, insects, worms etc. Note that this will be blown all over the place so best not to do it indoors. How you hold the nest will help in the cleaning, I usually hold the cup in my cupped hand. Practice makes perfect.

You might need an additional filter to remove water and oil from the compressed air, sometimes this comes together with the model/brand or add on for about RM60.

Freezing the nest for long periods will cause 'Freezer Burn' which is when the moisture in the nest is drawn off it as well as the freezing causing the texture to be slightly broken up. For sterilization we are freezing only for a short while.

Some bacteria is killed in the process of freezing but I would not count on it, so do wear a face mask! Flash heating to 85 deg. C is better at killing bacteria, and it is accepted by the health authorities.

Tuckfook,

Thanks for sharing the idea of cleaning bird nests with air compressor; now when buyers are picky, any good way to improve the condition of the nests for better prices is always welcome.

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Added on October 28, 2012, 4:23 pmJust a note of caution when it comes to using air compressor. Every so often, one would read in the newspaper of such incident where an unfortunate fellow would become a tragic victim in which his fellow technicians or foremen (when business is lax in the workshop) would gang up on one whom they like to bully and after the victim was overpowered and his trousers taken down; the business end of a hose from an air compressor would be inserted into his rectum for the fun of it... and guess what... the victim's rectum and intestine would be ripped apart by the force of the compressed air.... don't aim it at the face of someone or yourself for the matter as the eyes might be injure by the compressed air... don't play play when it come to any power tools... safety first.

This post has been edited by philoswiflet: Oct 28 2012, 04:23 PM

Yes but when carried out correctly, it produces an award winning fart.

Seriously though, some bacteria and fungi form spores when subjected to cold and breathing in these spores may introduce these to our bodies which will then 'hatch' . Depending on the type of pathogen, we could become seriously ill.

May I suggest.........

Why use compressed air and wouldn't vacuuming ar better idea to try???

I m no expert but common sense tell me that by using using air gun will cause all dirts and what have you in the nests to fly all over the area esp if you are doing the work in the kitchen as most of us do. Better way will be using vacuum cleaner to remove all dirts, pests esp. feathers and what have you in the nests into the dirt bags and you may want to recycle the dirt bag to reuse tiny bits of EBN for own usage. Remember that you are inhaling some of the dirts forced out by the pressure gun.

I am thinking of an idea here to make tweezers with a sucking nozzle to help to raise the feathers while we try to remove the feathers......since friends here are taking about cleaning nests.

What I believe is that there aren't any harmful bacteria in the swiftlets environment which include their shits as have been proven many times by the authorities.........but then shit being shit that many of us have fear for it and too much of these that go into the lung isn't good for health. So far, I haven't been using any form of protection when I was in the BH as I feel more relax not having something over my mouth and that's cause some discomfort when I do my harvesting that many friends have fallen down ladders. Therefore, my concern is that I will always be aware and awake that I would fall down from the ladders......alert all the time.

Just a suggestion only and repeating again that I M no expert in the field.

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Added on October 29, 2012, 1:08 pmBro,

You make it sound like you are entering a danger zone each time you enter the BH..............................

If there is a reason and danger of causing disease caused by the swiftlets or its shit to human race, we all will be chase out of town.....and every BH on agriland will be controlled and regulate by the authorities so not to spread any BH disease to human race. So, please never say that the industry is harmful to human and if so, we @ town will all die before the price do.

From my personal point, I don't know about the rest of you but if I use a mask or respirator, I can't even stay alert in the BH for 30 mins........and without the mask, I practically can stay for more than 4 hours even skipping lunch... but then U is U and I m I lain lain feeling lah. I have been doing so for over 20 years.......

So, don't let raayat think that going into a BH like going to LYNAS factory as BH is practically very safe with exception of stepping on shits, some ammonia and bugs that we can handle. Just imagine if raayat see us going into our BH with gears that make us look more like a spaceman than a cowboy(Birdman); it really become so scary if you get my breeze. If you are those clean or very health conscious people, do employ some labourers to do the dirty jobs of cleaning and harvesting and you wait at the entrance to collect your nests and pay the labourers wages just like the towkeys in our neighboring country or my rich friends from Selangor.

Be happy cos I don't mean to offend anyone here but just to caution the discussion as the raayat and worst if the unhappy authorities may be viewing us as we post............so, happy posting but stay out of danger.........

This post has been edited by West Wing: Oct 29 2012, 06:44 PM

I seldom wear mask (good quality type reusable after washing) when I go to work inside a farm except when it comes to cleaning the guano... I think for health reason, one must use mask to prevent the dusts and bacteria from guano going into our lungs.

I think WW's idea of using vacuum cleaner is a bright idea as most of us already have one and if not, they are much cheaper than air compressor. Its great to have such discussions that result in more than one solutions to a problem.
I believe that some or most vacuum cleaner can switch to become a blower... so one can try blowing or sucking (naughty minds!) and see which action is more effective...

However, I think the air compressor is probably the much more powerful tool.

This post has been edited by philoswiflet: Oct 29 2012, 10:04 PM

The ideal would be to have a vacuum cleaner sucking in the shit as an air compressor dislodges it. Vacuum alone is not powerful enough.

The simplest is to do the blowing in an open field, with the wind from behind your back. A fan blowing in the right direction will also help.

BTW if you do the cleaning soon after it comes out from the freezer, the particles will be damp and will not fly as far. The nest are also not brittle.