all his teammates and other grade A state ( province ) players in China are capable of defeating him.

hi, where can play in puchong area on wednesday ?

Anyone tried before DHS PF4? Heard old ppl says it not sensitive to spin, basically any incoming spin also can loop . Most of the time if a rubber lose tackiness it basically dead but tis rubber at its best performance when it lose its tackiness. They also said good for fast loop and sidespin loop . Only cons is really hard to find blade that suit it as its sponge too dead not bouncy enough. The best combination is DHS 032 &04 because the power supply to the rubber wif these blade I would say is unlimited no bottleneck but 032 and 04 is ancient blade which on the brink of extinction. Alternative cheaper one is yinhe n9 but only suitable for continuous looping but not smashing and near table control a bit weak.Hope to hear some reviews.



This post has been edited by ccf1162: May 20 2019, 12:21 PM

Not suggest to purchase.

Why?

this is a new version of the old PF4, never played with this before so cannot comment. BUT if it is similar to the old PF4, then no point spending the money. The old PF4 have average power and a very short life span. Last time I tried with the old PF4, just after few weeks, its dead. Not worth the money even if it is dirt cheap. Once dead, you will not be able to spin and control the ball well with dead rubber because it has not much grip. A good grip is what needed for spin and ball control.

O ,well. I managed tried it out yesterday after long begging and bargaining with one of the old ppl in my training place to bring out his precious DHS 032 + PF4 single sided penhold. Damn the bat is so heavy for single sided penhold weighted I think it's about 150g. Just like the old ppl said fast loop and sidespin loop are so powerful and the speed and spin. Wow , it's just like a whole new world . Even short cut or chop ?[ I don't know what's the technical term for chop at inside table] barely any rubber can compete with PF4. Smashes is terrifying people that everyone is my place start questioning their expensive blade and rubber compare to the old ppl's old 032 that looked like a cheap blade that nobody want to buy. And for 032 it's hard to describe, probably its consist of basswood which provide outstanding control and meranti provide strength and power which makes it like an allround blade suitable lp chopping and sp and smooth. Only cons it's damn heavy. Guess I need to beg that old ppl to lend me his yasaka mark V + stiga ac.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQibuKr0x2c


Great pointers to read serve. It enhanced my serve reading a lot.

This post has been edited by cede1975: May 23 2019, 11:30 AM

Loop is focus on generating spins for dipping arc rather than forward speed.They are slow n super topspin by defination. A dead rubber will never be able to achieve that.

There is a misconception when players go far table and smash the ball at quarter bottom contact point and 'think' what they are doing is loop. It can be done with any kind of rubber even with short pips. But the spin is the crucial difference. You simply cant generate 'more' spin if your top rubber is dead. this is physics.
Just try the dead PF4 on looping slow near table underspin ball and you can verify it easily.

Most Old people style usually uses anti,short pips,long pips. they cant loop, they smash/flat hit. chinese rubber excel on loop/loop drive because of tacky rubber. Dead rubber/anti/pips rubber looping is utter nonsense. They can mimick all they want but end of the day they cant generate the special Arc and table bite of a standard loop.

Forum19 Subang

https://goo.gl/maps/PF2sZC2emz1UQ1fe6

You can try forum19, regular schedule is mon,wed,friday 4-9pm. walk in and ask.

Can't try it because the rubber is still so tacky and chinese rubber is known for its long lasting tackiness so no chance because the old ppl rarely use it. What I can tell u what u call slow loop cannot be achieved by tis rubber because using tis rubber u dun nid to hit to provide forward movement but just focus on generating spin and some forward movement , you will produce fast loop that has low arc and so spinny that ppl can't control the ball . Cons is it's not great at producing slow loop like u said loop backspin. This rubber can fast loop on backspin.


Not sure whether this is komann winning 04 or dhs 04 found from web , that old ppl says that this is the best combination with pf4 no chance to try it because I think Malaysia nobody hv one of it. And someone says 04 blade is komann winning 04. It's too mysterious.

This post has been edited by ccf1162: May 23 2019, 06:52 PM

Forget to say that pf4 everything is about the hitting angle when you loop and swing speed , don't ever hit the ball with all your strength because this rubber doesn't work like that. The ball might go fast if you loop it hard every time but this is not the most powerful one . This rubber is everything about thinking and changing.

I ask that old ppl again about the dead rubber problem. I not sure you ever see old chinese rubber when they age ,they will turn from smooth and shiny surface to little misty and vague with maybe some cracks. This is the best stage , it will turn from hard stiff rubber to soft and comfortable . Maybe you can find this feeling on some of the old ancient chinese rubber and it's surface turned vague

This post has been edited by ccf1162: May 23 2019, 07:53 PM

You guys gotta remember that there's no one only way to play table tennis. I've played against some state players that used dead Chinese rubber. One of the hardest players I've ever played against honestly as receiving serves was a breeze to him. Something like an anti spin rubber honestly.

And yes, in theory, those kind of rubbers aren't very suitable for away from the table loops but how many people are at the level where they can consistently loop at that level? I can very well imagine someone winning the point before it reaches to that extent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZBKZS7ZLCs

simple demo of forehand loop. bear in mind loop/loop drive is not exclusively for far table only.

most amateur cant extinguish loop, loop drive, drive, drive smash and even flat hit. expert flat hitter using anti rubber, pimple or long pimple are hard to beat because you are your own defeat, it is exactly playing against a wall. Once your skills over come it, it is nothing. That is why to be competitive ppl will still use invert rubber as forehand and maybe pimple on backhand. With Invert friction rubber you can manipulate and control spin 'actively'. Spin is the game changing factor in table tennis.

The idea of flat hitter is better than you, does not mean they are good. Means you sucks more. This is a hard fact but also why you dont see flat hitters in world tournament at all. All the worldly technique and equipment are designed for inverted game, there is a reason. If you cant figure out by now your level of play will forever stuck there.

This post has been edited by cede1975: May 24 2019, 09:53 AM

They are using speed glue for the sponge only. The top layer can be 'revive' back with booster.
This is a near extinct art of heavy speed glueing. Chinese traditional inverted rubber are made much harder to 'accommodate' speed glue. With continue application of speed glue multiple times the sponge layer will become softer and springer. The VOlatile Organic compound (VOC) glue will weaken the bond between the top layer and sponge , this is why u see the rubber side peeling off.

In my yonder years of playing tt, Ive seen personally a super thick speed glued black sriver on a jpen during my tertiary days. The kid had to boost the rubber just before every match. And he told me japanese rubber last longer but still only good for at most an hour of play.

fast forward to now. the 5th 6th Xth gen tensile rubber already replaced this messy speed glueing. But you can still get 'water down' speed glue which doesnt do much but stick your rubber. It is a 'placeabo' thingy now. The old guy who uses speedglue for sponge but with dead top rubber is a flathitter without any doubt.
You cant get 'strong' VOC glue nowadays, It is extinct not even from taobao. But folk legend said cow glue can do the job.


Speedglue on sponge is for power, Speed glue/booster on top layer is for tacky spin.That was the basic idea.

Personally i still keep my old 1 ply 9mm hinoki cypress MAx with bryce speed with haifu glue for nostalgia. That bat is over 15 year old...
It still gives the sweet sound click smash whenever i feel like whipping it out.

This post has been edited by cede1975: May 24 2019, 10:14 AM

Every style has it own pros and cons. There is no such thing as smooth rubber two side loop is the most advance style. Every rubber suit different person . Like the main reason I play short pips is my thigh muscle every time cramp when I loop with smooth even I have warm up. There is no flat hitter in tournament? Yeah ,there is, he zhiwen ,mima ito and other Japanese female players but is lesser compared to 20th century. Why? U go n ask liu guoliang because he buried short pips style and chopper in man and turn Chinese team into looping machine.
I think flat hitter is coming back you see Mattias falck from SWE won the second place in WTTC recently. Why people turn to pips because their body condition don't allow them to loop like they used to be.

And 1 thing I have forgotten to say is there is different between looping with Chinese inverted and japanese or European rubber. Using chinese rubber u nid to cover your bat until 30 to 35 degree while European rubber is somewhere 70 to 80 degrees. Just compare waldner loop and guo yue hua loop
Guo yue hua:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju9933ToXtI
Waldner :
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YvsKxHkMde8

1st of all, Falck uses Rakxa X for BH. and much discussions has already been done on his superior 'backhand' style. Dont try to be misleading.

There is no one in their right mind will join a competition in full anti or pimple setup.

And please bear in mind,i said in table tennis SPIN is the decisive factor. without a means to 'counter' spin your opponent you are always at the mercy of being in 'defensive' side. Sure you can say block/punch works too but at close table to block punch u need close to inhuman relfex to pull it off if you are out of position. I dont think your cramp can handle that too. also honestly i bet you can smash pretty hard too with those pimple, yet you said loop is hurting for you? Your technique is wrong. get a coach or watch youtube. look at how pro/coaches loop so effortlessly.

If you are looking for excuses to justify your short pimple style, please be objective. I have seen old man in their 80s still using inverted to drive ala chicken wing style. That is the marvel of new generation tensile rubber + all kinda of futuristic carbon blade.

It is always hard to venture to new experience. That is why strong basics is so important. A lot of amateurs ignore the basics and perceive the game as how they play it. But in reality they got it way way way all wrong. I had this problem too when i changed from cpen/jpen to handshake. In my honest opinion cpen and jpen is the worst-draining stamina, with handshake you've already had attacking advantage on your left side reach. This is the lazy reason i change to handshake and never look back. and following any kind of basics training like learning kungfu. It is never too late.

This post has been edited by cede1975: May 24 2019, 05:17 PM

I mean there no good and bad about any playing style . It's all about how the player perform and his or her fundamental. If you fundamental are great u can even play well with lp . But undeniable there is some advantages with inverted which inverted is more easy to master. Penhold backhand can be very powerful too without rbh , like my famous move is backhand smash. As I say every rubber suits different people, lp is suitable for chop and weird it's may suitable for a person with patience and wish to have many changes of spin. I don't always smash with my forehand because of my thigh injuries even though it's powerful move to end a game, more often I just use ball placement and speed to win a game. What I could say is I dont have the strength to loop already so I turned to sp.
I think “flat hitter ”this term is rather misleading for sp or any antispin rubber. Actually what u said is right everything is about spin. Actually sp forehand drive also provide some topspin to provide arc for the ball land on opponent table. Antispin rubber I never played before but I'm sure it's also about changing of spin to deceive opponent and create opportunity to gain a point. I hope u can understand my point.

For Falck , yeah his frequency of using his backhand is much higher than forehand but I don't know whether you scrutinized his match . U can obviously see those opponent is very unadaptable to his forehand so this is why I said liu guoliang buried sp and lp playing style and isolated player from these style.Chinese should have the most experience to deal with sp so why they are so uncomfortable with sp. I hope there is more playing style like the era of 70s inverted, sp,lp,antispin..

:Falck's coach is a real pro master