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 Are property prices going to up further? V4, nothing's gonna stop us now

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omyfish
post Nov 21 2011, 11:12 AM

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QUOTE(sampool @ Nov 21 2011, 08:37 AM)
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-11-2...r-on-curbs.html

“A lot of the city’s entrepreneurs invested in the property market with the capital they earned from their own business,” Mizuho’s Shen said. “With the tightening of credit, they started to sell off properties.”


Added on November 21, 2011, 8:41 am
as long as the rental can support the monthly bank loan after 10% down payment, it still consider save...  and vise versa.
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Monthly installment for a 700k property with 10% down payment (35 years) is around RM3000 (Not including maintenance fees). How many person can afford the rental there?


Added on November 21, 2011, 11:13 am
QUOTE(katijar @ Nov 21 2011, 11:05 AM)
true story?
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Not true. The rental never go down, only the return ROI is going down.

This post has been edited by omyfish: Nov 21 2011, 11:19 AM
omyfish
post Nov 25 2011, 03:15 PM

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5 years ago:
A fresh grad earning RM1800/month planning to buy a 300k property in future.

Monthly installment for 90% of RM300k loan (35 years) is around RM1250.

He know that he need to have at least RM4200 income per month to get the bank to approve his loan for a 300k property.

So, he work very hard, hoping to get the increment until he achieve the amount of income.

5 years later:
He had achieved RM4200/month income (Not bad right?) . But the same property in the area had increased to RM600k.

Monthly installment for 90% of RM600k loan (35 years) is around RM2500.

Now, he need to have at least RM8300 (net income) to get his loan approved for the same property. sad.gif

5 year later (let say property price keep increasing):....
He achieved RM8400 net income... but this time he need to have RM16800 income to get the property in same area..

.............
.............

This post has been edited by omyfish: Nov 25 2011, 03:17 PM
omyfish
post Nov 25 2011, 03:50 PM

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QUOTE(silverfish1 @ Nov 25 2011, 03:43 PM)
My opinion - he may have 3 options then;
1) Wait for correction-Accept the fact that property have increased unnaturally....
3) Wait for auction property in the same place- Keep his fingers crossed...
3) Go for a substitute property - Buy a cheaper property elsewhere and save the agony once for all. Have more money for other things in life...
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4) Get a wife and share the house loan with her.

omyfish
post Nov 29 2011, 01:43 PM

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QUOTE(subzero7 @ Nov 28 2011, 11:11 PM)
Once there was a little island country. The land of this country was the tiny island itself. The total money in circulation was 2 dollars as there were only two pieces of 1 dollar coins circulating around.
1) There were 3 citizens living on this island country. A owned the land. B and C each owned 1 dollar.
2) B decided to purchase the land from A for 1 dollar. So, now A and C own 1 dollar each while B owned a piece of land that is worth 1 dollar.
- The net asset of the country now = 3 dollars.
3) Now C thought that since there is only one piece of land in the country, and land is non producible asset, its value must definitely go up. So, he borrowed 1 dollar from A, and together with his own 1 dollar, he bought the land from B for 2 dollars.
- A has a loan to C of 1 dollar, so his net asset is 1 dollar.
- B sold his land and got 2 dollars, so his net asset is 2 dollars.
- C owned the piece of land worth 2 dollars but with his 1 dollar debt to A, his net residual asset is 1 dollar.
- Thus, the net asset of the country = 4 dollars.
4) A saw that the land he once owned has risen in value. He regretted having sold it. Luckily, he has a 1 dollar loan to C. He then borrowed 2 dollars from B and acquired the land back from C for 3 dollars. The payment is by 2 dollars cash (which he borrowed) and cancellation of the 1 dollar loan to C. As a result, A now owned a piece of land that is worth 3 dollars. But since he owed B 2 dollars, his net asset is 1 dollar.
- B loaned 2 dollars to A. So his net asset is 2 dollars.
- C now has the 2 coins. His net asset is also 2 dollars.
- The net asset of the country = 5 dollars. A bubble is building up.
(5) B saw that the value of land kept rising. He also wanted to own the land. So he bought the land from A for 4 dollars. The payment is by borrowing 2 dollars from C, and cancellation of his 2 dollars loan to A.
- As a result, A has got his debt cleared and he got the 2 coins. His net asset is 2 dollars.
- B owned a piece of land that is worth 4 dollars, but since he has a debt of 2 dollars with C, his net Asset is 2 dollars.
- C loaned 2 dollars to B, so his net asset is 2 dollars.
- The net asset of the country = 6 dollars; even though, the country has only one piece of land and 2 Dollars in circulation.
(6) Everybody has made money and everybody felt happy and prosperous.
(7) One day an evil wind blew, and an evil thought came to C’s mind. “Hey, what if the land price stop going up, how could B repay my loan. There is only 2 dollars in circulation, and, I think after all the land that B owns is worth at most only 1 dollar, and no more.”
(8) A also thought the same way.
(9) Nobody wanted to buy land anymore.
- So, in the end, A owns the 2 dollar coins, his net asset is 2 dollars.
- B owed C 2 dollars and the land he owned which he thought worth 4 dollars is now 1 dollar. So his net asset is only 1 dollar.
- C has a loan of 2 dollars to B. But it is a bad debt. Although his net asset is still 2 dollars, his heart is palpitating.
- The net asset of the country = 3 dollars again.
(10) So, who has stolen the 3 dollars from the country? Of course, before the bubble burst B thought his land was worth 4 dollars. Actually, right before the collapse, the net asset of the country was 6 dollars on paper. B’s net asset is still 2 dollars, his heart is palpitating.
(11) B had no choice but to declare bankruptcy. C as to relinquish his 2 dollars bad debt to B, but in return he acquired the land which is worth 1 dollar now.
- A owns the 2 coins; his net asset is 2 dollars.
- B is bankrupt; his net asset is 0 dollar. (He lost everything)
- C got no choice but end up with a land worth only 1 dollar
- The net asset of the country is again = 3 dollars.

The story didn't end here...
- C "lelong" the land for 3 dollar coins, and A think it is cheap and take the offer, pay the 2 dollar to C and take 1 dollar loan from C
- But this time, nobody want to buy the land from A.
- A then forced to declare bankruptcy because of not able to repay back the 1 dollar to C.
- The ending is: C take back the land, in the same time holding the 2 dollars and laughing evilly.

This post has been edited by omyfish: Nov 29 2011, 01:44 PM
omyfish
post Dec 1 2011, 01:28 PM

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Just to share..

With RM5Million, this is what you can get in somewhere nearby KLCC:

A unit of 2,906 sf Unfurnished Condominium

user posted image

Source: http://www.propwall.my/classifieds/65930/the-troika-klcc-condominium-for-sale-by-shearn



With RM5Million, this is what you can get in Melaka:

A unit of 23,000 sf Semi-Furnished luxurious bungalow

user posted image

Source: http://www.propwall.my/classifieds/232101/melaka-malaysia-house-for-sale-by-faziah




omyfish
post Dec 27 2011, 11:09 AM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Dec 27 2011, 01:45 AM)
The more people talk about price can crash, the chance of it crash become low.

The crash often come when most people cannot forsee it.

This is always repeating and proven.

Because when more people wary or cautious crash may around the corner, it means those people are out of excessive speculation.
It is always excessive speculation that causing the bubble and lead to crash afterwards.

I will deeply worry if no one talk about crash, and everyone said BBB.
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I'm thinking the other way round.. bubble is caused by excessive speculation, but crash will be happened when people start getting wary and stop the speculation.

omyfish
post Dec 27 2011, 02:02 PM

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QUOTE(R o Y @ Dec 27 2011, 11:23 AM)
When people stop buying, market only stagnates or maybe goes down a little bit because people still have holding power and hope for rebound.

Crash will happen when all around people are getting retrenched, losing their jobs, companies are going bankrupt, stockmarket also falling at the same time. Because prices only crash when there are many forced sales with no buyers.
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hmm.gif So what had happened to China now?

There are a lot of new develop property offering no interest until completion or only pay for the interest before completion.
I guess a lot aunty/uncle are estimating the price will go up once it completed and thought that they can easily find someone else to take over the property or rent it out once the bank started to request them to pay for the real installment fees.

One of my friend just bought a unit of condo cost RM450k+ (with only 5% down payment), and he told me he just need to pay for the interest for the first few year before completion which is quite cheap.
The monthly installment for the condo will be RM2000 after completion, he is not afford to pay that with his current salary, but he estimate his salary will be doubled up when the moment the condo is completed. He said "The price will 100% go up once it completed. If I not buy now, when it completed it will much more expensive."

I just wonder how long and how many person is afford to hold their property when market is stagnate.

This post has been edited by omyfish: Dec 27 2011, 02:44 PM
omyfish
post Dec 27 2011, 03:38 PM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Dec 27 2011, 03:17 PM)
If he can't afford to pay with his salary, how come he can still get loan? This prove that bank has become irresponsible lender. Your friend also act irresponsibly and this of course will lead to downfall of property market.
Nothing to fear if we still have jobs that pay well.
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He got his father to be his guarantor. flex.gif

Maybe he is smarter than us hmm.gif
If the price keep going up, wait until the moment I afford to buy a 450k property, the price may already go up to 600k.
So, paying just a small portion of installment until completion while waiting the income to increase might be a good choice for youngster who still cannot afford the property.
omyfish
post Mar 7 2012, 05:43 PM

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QUOTE(Iceman74 @ Mar 7 2012, 05:05 PM)
heard & see with your own eyes is different thing, unless is flat or using joint name.
If the normal working person can own that many units, he sure hell know how to borrow from banks or he earn mega salary. brows.gif
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The person can persuade the bank to give him the loan by declaring the rental collected every month as his income.
I heard there do have people get 7 figures monthly income just from the rental collected every month.

This is very risky. If economic crisis happened and a lot houses/shops/offices cannot be rented out, the owner will need to fork out his own money to pay for the installment, else the owner will be bankrupt..

My previous house owner got more than 8 houses just in SS2, and a lot of shops and other houses in other location..

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