Dear All,

Recently i want to purchase a additional water heater for my guest room. Budget (below RM300).

I found that most of the water heater is 3.6KW (alpha, joven, panasonic, centon) while 2 brands midea and toshiba 3.8KW.

May i ask
1) It is 3.8kw can heat up the water more faster and water also more hot?
2) Did this 200watt have very significant difference?

Because if same price sure will choose a 3.8kw instead of 3.6kw if the difference is significant

Difference is 5.5% more heat available only. It might not really make so much difference as compared to 3600W.
Slowing down the water flow will make it heat up better.

Else if you are in some cold place like Genting or Kundasang mountain area then can consider the 4800W models but wiring need to upgrade.

This post has been edited by ceo684: Dec 2 2020, 11:39 PM

hi guys, between Deka E800 vs Midea MWH-38P3, which is better?

am looking for affordable DC pump, any other brand suggestion is appreciated too. thanks.

https://www.deka.my/product/e800/

https://www.midea.com/my/product/Small-Appl...nt-Pump-(Black)

If a house has many bathrooms is it better to use storage heater?

This post has been edited by 5p3ak: Dec 6 2020, 09:59 AM

hi i plan to get a water heater with pump and rain shower.
It seems need to purchase separately right?

Previous page read some comparison, i think toshiba DSK38S3MW good enough?

I plan to get 2 heater, 1 for master bathroom and 1 more for 2nd bathroom. Maybe i just get 2 same model will be a good bet? our plan probably we will use the 2nd room more often.

I asked my house contractor to install 20AC from DB, this mean they will put new fuse in db for 20AC ? i add total 4 20AC. .

Rain shower need good (high) water flow to rain properly otherwise you'll just get a miserable drip like prison torture.
OTOH, High water flow will not be able to heat up as well as medium water flow as the water already travel far ahead from the heating element (when its high flow).

Its part of the reason why normally they don't put rain shower as default when selling WH.
There are larger heating element WH (4800W models) if you want to run a rain shower and have it hot.

Ideally should run a new dedicated line from DB for the WH. Ask the electrician to add in 10mA RCD / RCBO (from a reputable brand ABB Hager Schneider). Contractor simply hook up only, I recommend getting a real electrician to look into this if the contractor say noneed one.. wont die one...

These don't cost that much nowadays (95 bucks for schneider with sirim sticker)
https://shopee.com.my/SCHNEIDER-RCBO-25a-2p...1048.2774414891
25A RCBO as per above can do direct replacement for MCB (if u use 4mm or 6mm cable). Else still need 20A MCB if on standard 2.5mm cable as 25A for this cable size is overload.

Why this is important?

To avoid you coming into the news like this https://www.malaymail.com/news/malaysia/202...c-shock/1896447

Standard 2.5mm cable will limit you to 3800W model WH. If you find the water too cold then nothing much you can do.
If you uprate it to 4mm or 6mm it will support 4800W (highlands model) WH.
Cost wise not that much more in terms of material for cable (even if buy loose per meter) but since pulling new line you might wanna consider just buying whole 100m rolls.

This post has been edited by ceo684: Dec 11 2020, 09:01 PM

my floor have water pump from what i know from management office. In additional to play safe the model i considering come with water pump, i think should be sufficient.
My hometown using rubine with the rain shower and its quite ok from my experience, the heating i not sure normally how hot you all use as i saw this mentioned many time.
Normally i only use like 30% of full heat or max 40% (those dialer normally around 3-4) then when pump to rain shower i still didnt feel much heat loss, if yes then i maybe push it to 50%,
I dont think need 4800w model as i dont really take too hot shower.

its didicated just that i think maybe they just hook to any of the db side fuse. those 9 safety feature all useless for current water heater? just wondering.

Coz for pressurised water from condo tank, refresh to new piping by management recently within past 2 years (so can consider our piping is brand new)
With old 3300W heaters I always use 90% heat.
With brand new 3600W heater also around there - 70% heat

No rain shower, all original (new Pana hose and new shower heads). Old heater also using new hoses from last 2 yrs.

do make sure that there is a earth leakage Trip function / button on the water heater . and test that it works to trip the power


SINGAPORE, Dec 12 — An 80-year-old man and his 66-year-old wife died in their flat at Block 120 Ho Ching Road in the Jurong Lakeside district on Thursday.
The police said that they were alerted to a case of unnatural death at 4.15pm and found the couple lying motionless when they arrived at the housing block.
The pair were pronounced dead at the scene by a paramedic.
The couple’s 45-year-old son who had gone to visit them was also in the flat. He was unconscious and taken to Ng Teng Fong General Hospital, but later died in the hospital.

The police said that no foul play is suspected and investigations are ongoing.

Chinese daily Lianhe Wanbao reported that the older man Omar Manan was taking a shower when he fell in the bathroom. His wife Asmah Bujang went in to help him and both were purportedly electrocuted.

When the son Muhamad Ashikin Omar arrived at the flat with his 15-year-old daughter, he tried to save them and was reportedly electrocuted as well.

https://www.malaymail.com/news/singapore/20...son-als/1931245

Difference between ELCB and RCCB
· ELCB is the old name and often refers to voltage operated devices that are no longer available and it is advised you replace them if you find one.
· RCCB or RCD is the new name that specifies current operated (hence the new name to distinguish from voltage operated).
· The new RCCB is best because it will detect any earth fault. The voltage type only detects earth faults that flow back through the main earth wire so this is why they stopped being used.
· The easy way to tell an old voltage operated trip is to look for the main earth wire connected through it.
· RCCB will only have the line and neutral connections.
· ELCB is working based on Earth leakage current. But RCCB is not having sensing or connectivity of Earth, because fundamentally Phase current is equal to the neutral current in single phase. That’s why RCCB can trip when the both currents are deferent and it withstand up to both the currents are same. When both the neutral and phase currents are different that means current is flowing through the Earth.
· RCD does not necessarily require an earth connection itself (it monitors only the live and neutral).In addition it detects current flows to earth even in equipment without an earth of its own.
· This means that an RCD will continue to give shock protection in equipment that has a faulty earth. It is these properties that have made the RCD more popular than its rivals. For example, earth-leakage circuit breakers (ELCBs) were widely used about ten years ago. These devices measured the voltage on the earth conductor; if this voltage was not zero this indicated a current leakage to earth. The problem is that ELCBs need a sound earth connection, as does the equipment it protects. As a result, the use of ELCBs is no longer recommended.
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-differenc...n-ELCB-and-RCCB

We can assume that the ELCB is the brain for the shock protection, and the grounding as the backbone. Therefore, without a functional grounding (Proper Earthing of Electrical System) there is totally no protection against electrical shocks in your house even if You have installed ELCB and its TEST switch show proper result. Looking after the ELCB alone is not enough. The electrical Earthing system must also be in good working order for the shock protection system to work.
https://electrical-engineering-portal.com/w...rent-device-rcd

ST guideline here for WH installation. Statutory requirement under the law for wet floor appliance i.e. WH to be protected with 10mA RCD.

10mA RCD/RCBO from good brands only cost around RM95-RM170 each, cheaper than buying life insurance plan. https://www.st.gov.my/en/contents/publicati...r%20Systems.pdf

This post has been edited by ceo684: Dec 12 2020, 10:17 PM

Agree to your points and adding few points.

Typically all instant water heaters have ELCB (working on voltage based, sometimes current based RCD) but hardly find WH that explicitly mention using RCD.
If your WH has RCD protection then its great, if not you need other methods of protection as ELCB itself is not sufficient.
As mentioned RCD (or RCCB or RCBO) is better way of protecting yourself from electrocution.

You can have RCD in few places for protection when comes to WH.
1) RCD at your WH itself (if your water heater comes with RCD, you need to check)
2) RCD right before your WH (which you install at main board)
3) RCCB at your main incoming power supply at home (this RCD is to protect all your equipment, not just your WH)

If you look at above options, most importantly you need to have (3) at least at your home. Typically rated 100mA (current difference). Means if any current that coming to your home doesnt return back to main with difference of 100mA (means current is leaking to earth), the RCCB will trip to protect you. Regardless of any equipment at your home. Remember current leaking can happen in any equipment, not just WH. So this can be considered as a general protection for your home.

(2) level protection is more specific to WH (if you connect RCD for heater). Typically its rated at 10mA. As you can see, the current difference in this rating is lower. Hence its more sensitive for current difference in case of leakage. It means that even a slight current leak of 10MA it will trip the circuit to protect you. Obviously its much more safer.

Modern homes, it is mandatory to have (3). In new development housing, even (2) is installed.

There was a thread been discussed on this topic. Can refer here...

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2954371/all

How to test it? I bought Panasonic and Toshiba without pump finally as I see the pressure is high enough.. I see their spec mention alot of protection.. Hopefully it works and I have no idea how to test it.. Toshiba DSK38S5MW and Panasonic DH-3RL1

the pana DH has a 15mA ELB trip . as stated in the specs.
ELB have been working for many years . and many old houses still have these at their DB .
todays houses they use the RCCB in lieu.


there is a button on the WH front panel ELB Test .
just press this and the power will trip. mean the leakage test works. do this test once every month .
you are good to GO

not sure about toshiba as i only use/ recommend pana WH .
i only know the pana inside and out .



This post has been edited by Momo33: Dec 13 2020, 12:55 PM

there is alot of wh with elcb but function or not i not sure, and i think not all have the button to test.
earlier want to opt panasonic but my friend is fan of panasonic he tell me his experience leak for 2 wh then he decided switch brand and ask me not to buy..
i still buy 1 to test to avoid all the risk into same brand so i buy toshiba as the design n spec quite nice

ok..
not sure where the water leak from ?
water leak can check and fix easy ... possible the clamps not tight .

but 2 WH leak ... either he karma bad or installed wrong ....or many other reasons.
i have never seen water leak out of the WH box even the cheap ones.

those WH esp the china made ones which claim inbuilt elcb leakage protection my view is dont trust it.
cos you doing it with your life here.
there must be a Test eclb button to test the elb protection .if not dont buy .

the justification is ECLB , RCCB , ROCB all have a test button to confirm the protection works , Right ?

Yeah the important factor of ELCB, the ground wire (earth) must be connected. Some WH do a test and will not operate without connected ground.
ELCB is considered like wearing a car sunshade to fight a fire.
Got some protection la but not foolproof. To run from a fire maybe can la.

Full bomba suit is the RCD.
RCD is the standard now because it always constant monitor if 10.00 A in on live and for 10mA RCCD at least 9.999 A must come out on the neutral else it will consider as fault (something wrong somewhere) and trip. This is because just a little bit of current 50mA = 0.005A can and WILL kill at 230V.

N series?
Someone with Newer N series leak before as reported in this thread too.
I'd recommend the old M series Pana, this one so far so good for me.


ELCB is old method and should not be fully relied on.
China don't have its own SIRIM.. many CN product just manufacturer syok sendiri say certified as CE (not lab tested, syok sendiri claim).. whereas UL, SIRIM, VDE, KEMA KEUR and all the famous famous cert require certified lab testing in order to earn that cert.
Hence if wanna use WH it is still worth that RM95-170 for proper RCD/RCBO for life protection.

This is also why whole house should also use 30mA RCD, as (even how suay) also it won't kill a person. 100mA and 300mA is only for fire protection.

This post has been edited by ceo684: Dec 14 2020, 12:36 AM

Anyone familiar with livinox brand water heater , andora series?
Or should i just stick to pana/toshiba / rubine?

Just stick to the safe brands.

Stick to safe brands better. And make sure your WH is on 10mA RCD/RCBO protected circuit. It is important for life protection and yet cheaper than your insurance plan

This post has been edited by ceo684: Jan 1 2021, 11:21 PM