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 Kursk State Medical University(Russia). Should I?, Really . . . should I?

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TSJayz0118
post Oct 31 2011, 04:12 PM, updated 15y ago

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Hey Lowyat-ers, I'm about to take SPM 2011 and I'm clouded in deciding what to do after it. First of all, my 'cita-cita' is to be a doctor(more specifically a medical specialist but that's a story for another day). I'm not one of 'em kids from a rich family so financially I've got some obstacles or rather, roadblocks ahead of me. Most likely I wouldn't be able to afford universities such as Monash and IMU. I'm not sure about the fee structure of public universities such as USM, UM, etc.

I came across a new option(Kursk State Medical University) at an education fair the other day. Sat down, talked, asked questions, and came to a conclusion that the fee structure is reasonable(far cheaper than Monash) and I'm thinking about it. However, some of my friends had negative responses to the idea of studying medicine in Russia(One even laughed and thought I was joking) rclxub.gif

So, if there are any of you kind Lowyat-ers here who has or knows someone who has experience in this university or even just knowledge regarding studying in Russia, please kindly shed some light on the subject. smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif

AND, if anyone knows(or roughly know) the fee structure of studying medicine in local universities, please do share. whistling.gif
podrunner
post Oct 31 2011, 04:52 PM

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just one of the newer russian mbbs threads, quite a lot has been discussed in other related threads.

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1793046
Makira
post Oct 31 2011, 04:58 PM

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Another road for you is study hard for SPM, get As, then matriks, then IPTA Medicine programme...

If not, take STPM, then good result,may or may not accpeted into medicine, but if possible to get scholarships for medicine......if you want to do it locally....
excel_saga
post Oct 31 2011, 05:13 PM

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My brother studied medicine in russia at RSMU and he graduated working at HKL and he's doing fine. My friend is currently studying at kursk and from all the pictures it looks like she's having fun. And she told me that in kursk, you mostly learn in english if im not mistaken. Dont really know about the fee's though. I guess the only barrier that you have to face is being so far away from everybody else and the language. Obviously locals there do not speak a lot of english or even know any. But when you band together with friends you will meet over there, then everything would be fine of course. Good luck with your SPM and all the best. A doctors life is a hectic one according to my brother tongue.gif

Oh, i also have a friend studying in Indonesia for medicine, maybe you should try and look up Padjadjaran University
limeuu
post Oct 31 2011, 07:32 PM

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do you qualify to study medicine in the first place?.....what is your forecast spm result?.....

http://mmc.gov.my/v1/docs/MINIMUM%20CRITERIA%20V2.pdf

the vast majority of students going to russia goes there because it's cheap, and/or it's easy to get accepted, even with very poor results....

the 2nd reason is now closed, as if you do NOT have the minimum set by mmc, you will be denied registration when you return.....

more than 1/2 of all russian graduates have a LOT of difficulties when they start working as housemans, as they have VERY weak fundamental knowledge, and very weak clinical skills.....
Makira
post Oct 31 2011, 08:04 PM

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Agree with limeuu since our medical field is deteriorating currently...Results are not good, then leave medicine, dont force yourself doing something bad......
TSJayz0118
post Oct 31 2011, 08:10 PM

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Thanks for replying guys. smile.gif

Read some of the other related threads(thanks for the link) and though I don't claim to be very smart it looks like I still qualify limeuu(based on my trial 2 results) though I have no idea about SPM(fingers crossed)

I agree about the whole "goes there because it's cheap" thing since my reason for going there is no different. It seems(okay it's obvious actually) that quite a few users have negative opinions about studying medicine in Russia.

Limeuu, from the other threads, you give me the impression that you're completely against the Russians on this... mind elaborating where and/or what your source is? Don't worry about offending... I'd like it best to know all the positives and negatives(especially the negatives) before making a decision.

Thanks again for the wish excel_saga I'll try my best in SPM. Cheers =D
limeuu
post Oct 31 2011, 08:40 PM

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i am against the commercialisation of medical education, and russia is the epitome of this....their sole purpose for their english language medical programmes (nobody speaks english there, think about it...) is to earn money from foreigners, and since nobody stays back to work, they don't care what quality of 'doctors' they produce....

there is no regard for standards, and thus takes in anybody, including arts students.....it's a corrupt system, where you can buy passes from your teachers.....

the product of this system is obvious when students return and start work....half of them cannot function, and have to be taught all over again like a 1st year medical student....

the mmc guideline is too lax, in my opinion.....the way spm is dumbed down, nobody with less than straight a's should be allowed to take medicine...(the pre-u guideline doesn't work, as many people going to russia just do a 'foundation' somewhere after spm, and they can all be given bbb.....)
TSJayz0118
post Oct 31 2011, 09:13 PM

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What you say does make sense when one thinks about their side of the benefits. And, if the standard of their graduates is bad as you claim, then my desire/hope of going there is pretty much crushed(I'd never let patients trust me if I don't even know for sure what I'm doing whilst treating them). Are you in the medical field btw limeuu?

So, let's see, if I manage to land a spot in matriks(govt) and walk the IPTA path. How would my financial situation differ from the Russian path?

podrunner
post Oct 31 2011, 09:15 PM

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QUOTE(limeuu @ Oct 31 2011, 08:40 PM)

...

the mmc guideline is too lax, in my opinion.....the way spm is dumbed down, nobody with less than straight a's should be allowed to take medicine...(the pre-u guideline doesn't work, as many people going to russia just do a 'foundation' somewhere after spm, and they can all be given bbb.....)
*
There's A+, A and A-. I think you would want to revise that to at least 6A+ (bio, chem, phys, eng, maths, & add maths) and the rest all A. A- is really looking pathetic, and B would be borderline fail to me, if you look at the SPM grading scale 2010 provided in this thread.

spm grading scale


un.deux.trois
post Oct 31 2011, 09:17 PM

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QUOTE(Jayz0118 @ Oct 31 2011, 09:13 PM)
What you say does make sense when one thinks about their side of the benefits. And, if the standard of their graduates is bad as you claim, then my desire/hope of going there is pretty much crushed(I'd never let patients trust me if I don't even know for sure what I'm doing whilst treating them). Are you in the medical field btw limeuu?

So, let's see, if I manage to land a spot in matriks(govt) and walk the IPTA path. How would my financial situation differ from the Russian path?
*
If you can get into a local public medical school, it's far cheaper than going to Russia I think.
limeuu
post Oct 31 2011, 09:18 PM

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QUOTE(Jayz0118 @ Oct 31 2011, 09:13 PM)
What you say does make sense when one thinks about their side of the benefits. And, if the standard of their graduates is bad as you claim, then my desire/hope of going there is pretty much crushed(I'd never let patients trust me if I don't even know for sure what I'm doing whilst treating them). Are you in the medical field btw limeuu?

So, let's see, if I manage to land a spot in matriks(govt) and walk the IPTA path. How would my financial situation differ from the Russian path?
*
ipta, while not the best in the world, is MUCH MUCH better than russia....

ipta is FREE.....almost....you total 5 years fees is less than rm20k....

the problem is getting in....if you do not get matrik.....
Makira
post Oct 31 2011, 09:19 PM

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QUOTE(Jayz0118 @ Oct 31 2011, 09:13 PM)
What you say does make sense when one thinks about their side of the benefits. And, if the standard of their graduates is bad as you claim, then my desire/hope of going there is pretty much crushed(I'd never let patients trust me if I don't even know for sure what I'm doing whilst treating them). Are you in the medical field btw limeuu?

So, let's see, if I manage to land a spot in matriks(govt) and walk the IPTA path. How would my financial situation differ from the Russian path?
*
You pay cheaper fees and get better training and medical education.......
TSJayz0118
post Oct 31 2011, 09:27 PM

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IPTAs are cheaper? really? that'd be good news... man I really suck at this whole general-knowledge thing...

Any recommendations? And, normally what'd the fee structure be like? Actual data would be greatly appreciated, can't find em myself(Yeah, I fail at googling, I know) =)

This post has been edited by Jayz0118: Oct 31 2011, 09:56 PM
limeuu
post Oct 31 2011, 09:49 PM

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QUOTE(Jayz0118 @ Oct 31 2011, 09:27 PM)
IPTAs are cheaper? really? that'd be good news... man I really suck at this whole general-knowledge thing...

Any recommendations? And, normally what'd be the fee structure like? Actual data would be greatly appreciated, can't find em myself
i already told you...... doh.gif

are you sure you want to be a doctor?.....if you can't understand simple things like this.....
TSJayz0118
post Oct 31 2011, 10:01 PM

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QUOTE(limeuu @ Oct 31 2011, 09:49 PM)
i already told you...... doh.gif

are you sure you want to be a doctor?.....if you can't understand simple things like this.....
*
Sorry, you're right. Gotta cut off stupidity completely if I'm ever going to let someone trust me with his/her life.

This post has been edited by Jayz0118: Nov 1 2011, 02:55 PM
Makira
post Oct 31 2011, 10:03 PM

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QUOTE(Jayz0118 @ Oct 31 2011, 09:27 PM)
IPTAs are cheaper? really? that'd be good news... man I really suck at this whole general-knowledge thing...

Any recommendations? And, normally what'd the fee structure be like? Actual data would be greatly appreciated, can't find em myself(Yeah, I fail at googling, I know) =)
*
If you can get into it........now concentrate on SPM, good luck to you.....
TSJayz0118
post Oct 31 2011, 10:06 PM

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Thanks Makira, I will. =)
Huskies
post Oct 31 2011, 10:10 PM

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QUOTE(limeuu @ Oct 31 2011, 08:40 PM)
i am against the commercialisation of medical education, and russia is the epitome of this....their sole purpose for their english language medical programmes (nobody speaks english there, think about it...) is to earn money from foreigners, and since nobody stays back to work, they don't care what quality of 'doctors' they produce....

there is no regard for standards, and thus takes in anybody, including arts students.....it's a corrupt system, where you can buy passes from your teachers.....

the product of this system is obvious when students return and start work....half of them cannot function, and have to be taught all over again like a 1st year medical student....

the mmc guideline is too lax, in my opinion.....the way spm is dumbed down, nobody with less than straight a's should be allowed to take medicine...(the pre-u guideline doesn't work, as many people going to russia just do a 'foundation' somewhere after spm, and they can all be given bbb.....)
*
I came across this very interesting article published in the American Journal of Public Health detailing health care in the Soviet Union and the years after its collapse.

I would like to highlight several excerpts:

"Government leaders placed heavy emphasis on training large numbers of doctors and providing large numbers of hospital beds. In this rush to expand the system, however, the leaders paid little attention to the quality of personnel or facilities. As part of the overall scarcity of consumer goods and services that developed in the Soviet economy, there also developed an elaborate system of stratification in the availability and quality of health care services. The best care was reserved for those of the highest occupation or political rank."

Anyone notice the similarity to our situation? But, wait there's more...

"Although the Soviet Union boasted more physicians and hospital beds (both absolutely and per capita) than any other country, Chazov (Gorbachev’s first health minister) often found their quality to be abysmal, well below world standards. Corruption, including bribery in the admission and graduation of physicians (a shocking proportion of whom could not perform the simplest medical procedures), had permeated the entire system. Largely as a result of the very low salaries they drew, some health personnel demanded large sums of money from patients to provide services they were supposed to provide for free. A shortage of pharmaceuticals and other medical supplies intensified, leading often to gray or black markets. And on top of all this, the system was paralyzed by a suffocating bureaucracy and a command mentality."

"While physicians were plentiful in number before 1992, their typical skill levels were rudimentary by Western standards. With physicians' professional associations outlawed, there was no system to monitor the quality of care. Physicians
worked for salaries less than that of a typical factory worker. Today there still is no effective organization of physicians in Russia, and physicians' attempts to win concessions from the government through organized work stoppages have been largely unsuccessful."

The MMA may not have been outlawed in Malaysia, but they're almost completely useless/helpless in this regard...

"Physicians have nowhere to go; most of them are civil servants, live on patients' tips, and keep quiet."

Now, my guess is that's the fate awaiting Malaysian medical graduates, if it hasn't already begun...

Source: The Current State of Health Care in the Former Soviet Union: Implications for Health Care Policy and Reform by Donald A. Barr, MD, PhD, and Mark G. Field, PhD
podrunner
post Oct 31 2011, 10:25 PM

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Thanks for that Huskies..."abysmal, corruption, tips...." the similarities never cease to amaze!


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