In Europe most contis are IIRC every 20k... are they just trying to make money or are the conditions here so much tougher?

Anyway, if the Mondeo gets the satnav/radio unit Ford uses, then whoa, awesome. I love that one, might even be better than the RCD510 (or so...) from VW.

Best part of owning those cars is the time you get rid of them...

Ah I see. Europe also has 30+°C, but also -10, while in M'sia the car is baked all the time with lots of humidity. Probably not so good, though I'd expect the extreme temp difference also to cause some wear and tear on the car. Ah well, nothing we change about it.

Our Kangoo service every 10k... Xsara in Europe every 20k, but yeah, different region.

Value for money in the UK doesn't count s... in Malaysia. Otherwise the Dacia Logan MCV could be considered the best value for money... 37k for a brand new 7 seater MPV with 2 airbags and ABS (3 stars EuroNCAP) in Germany. Doesn't count anything here though.

Don't think I have seen one in JB either...

Of course Ford salesmen shouldn't be driving a Toyota, lol.

I don't think you should really care about resale value... how much better can it be when you buy the 2012 model and have to pay 20k more? You think you can get 20k more after a few years? However, if it gets better equipment, such as the satnav (which, as I mentioned before, rocks (used it in the Galaxy. The display was IMHO a bit too dark there though). However the VW has a 30 GB HDD for your music, which is also quite neat. Of course I don't know how good the maps they have for Malaysia are, and how they will update it (and at what cost)), theeeeeen it might be worth it. Just.

True.

Hm. Even then only optional... so expensive extra.

It's not the base spec model at least. DSG will be a costly extra in Europe, and there are less powerful engines. Automatic aircondition usually is an extra with contis, unless they are desperate to sell the car (Volvo C30). Leather of course too, the electric seat should be an option, and when speccing a Galaxy I think the keyless go system was optional too. In Europe you can often pick the Viva edition That's why cars are so cheap. If you buy a 5 series you can pay 50k Euro... but you can easily pay 120k too, if you get a bit crazy with the options (and want the M5).

I think the reason why they don't spec it with a satnav but with everything else (which really makes the contis in M'sia rather comparably priced to Europe, if you go for the same specs, not counting any discounts the dealer might give you) is a lack of Malaysian maps, I guess. This is it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ws5r4uvZ2c The display next to the speedometer is also used for the satnav, so you don't have to look down to the big screen. You can control the satnav through the steering wheel. There is an optional parking camera for the satnav too, you control your phone, MP3 player etc. through it and IIRC also can play off an external hard drive, it will show the album art, play DVDs, control the aircondition, ... something similar to the iDrive system BMW has, so really it's a nice option This is a more extensive demonstration of the thing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXrq-3Q-9r8 (it might be a different one from the one I have used though, and I don't know which one Malaysia will get. The Blaupunkt one is a bit more basic I think, but the interface looks a lot like the one I used... hm).

That's the VW unit, though the demo isn't that extensive (you can also control the automatic aircondition etc. through it). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdX2vKgTx1E&feature=related Again a nice unit, though I do like the Ford one more. More gadgets. The VW might be easier to use... hm.

IMHO the VW is the Camry of Europe. lol. It's playing it safe, it may not offend anyone (so it might look a tad boring). But it certainly is a good car... just not as flamboyant and exciting as the rest.

Oh btw., the Citroen C5 is 189k, and that's the most comfortable option of them all, and it, too, is nicely spec'ed (also a very attractive car, if you ask me). It has the suspension Citroen are famous for, the one that Rolly Royce and Bentley licensed from Citroen because it is so incredibly comfortable. Of course that doesn't make it a sportscar, but with the condition some Malaysian roads are in it might be the car I'd pick (if I could). (I wonder why they installed 18" rims on that car though... I'd go for 15 or 16"). And they didn't bother to update the website to the Malaysian market, which does worry me a bit (they advertise optional features and trim models that you can't get in Malaysia. lol?)

Yeah, they should import the Galaxy instead. Comfy, decent handling and easy to drive (for something of that size), lots of space and very flexible. Loved it.

Haha, maybe they only have 5, so they were sold out? But yeah, sales aren't exactly great. I have to disagree about the looks though, I think it also looks great in reality, including the rear... the Fiesta sedan tries to resemble it, but not very successful to be honest.

I suppose if you can afford the Mondeo you have several other Contis and other imports to choose from, and they are more attractive in terms of resale value and ease of maintenance.

Btw., the 508 is sitting on the same platform as the C5, just with a sporty focus instead of being super smooth like the C5. Probably just a matter of taste.

This post has been edited by kadajawi: Dec 8 2011, 10:09 PM

Usually European cars usually have a rather sporty suspension. If you want that smooooooth ride, try the C5 (it has the hydropneumatik suspension in Malaysia, right?). That's the one that was meant for a smooth comfortable ride, and boy did the XM glide over the road! I've read that PSA tried to differentiate the brothers by making the 508 pretty sporty, while the C5 was meant to be comfortable (hell, Rolls Royce and Bentley used the system, and the S class offers a somewhat similar system... as an option). It's also a better looking car, if you ask me. Getting replacement spheres for the C5's suspension might get a bit harder though, in case they wear out. Not many cars who need them here, but you could import them from Europe (afaik there are also comfort spheres in case you want an even smoother suspension).

Also 18 inchers AFAIK do ruin the ride a bit, because they tyres are also part of the suspension, and there isn't much with a 18"... I guess asking them to mount 16" to try out isn't an option?

Have you considered one of the DSG cars, such as the Passat? (doesn't the Mondeo have it too? Hm...)

Mh... again, I have to disagree. Some german streets are in an absolutely desolate state, many towns are bankrupt and can't afford to repair them. However the highway is usually in good shape. I have seen towns that are in worse shape than what I have seen in Malaysia so far. I was in a town once where no one drove faster than 20 to evade all the potholes...! (They were redoing all the streets though...) Really depends on what area you are in, but you can't generalize. Especially towns are in a bad shape.

Not sure why they are all trying to be as sporty as possible :-/ It doesn't make that much sense nowadays. As if Europeans are always driving on race tracks... -.-

US roads also not good anymore... they don't even have enough money for cops! Some parts of Detroit are without protection at all through cops, AFAIK. (http://streetsblog.net/2011/11/16/the-high-cost-of-cheap-roads/ Look at that photo!)

It's not all bad in Europe... France has excellent highways (damn expensive to drive there), swiss roads also seemed pretty good where I was (drivers bad though, lol). Germany it really depends... some places good, some very bad, whereas in Malaysia it generally seems to tend towards the latter. You wouldn't find a highway with a giant pothole in Germany. In cities though it might happen, though IIRC these potholes aren't as deep and big as they are sometimes in Malaysia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykB4Ek8Maf0 This is in Berlin. Admittedly the holes are all "fixed". Except for this one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd4RsSNVe6U And the last video... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GT3iFk9aFa4

I thought the Camry is rather soft? An uncle drove an old Camry (not sure which one), and my (admittedly bad) memories
were of a rather soft ride. No comparison to a Citroen XM though of course. And of course soft doesn't have to mean it takes bumps well.

Perhaps the reason for the rather stiff rides of contis is that roads can be quite curvy, and the speed limit between towns in Germany is for example 100, sometimes even with very twisty roads (sometimes there are speed limits in that case, sometimes there aren't). The road to the Nordschleife is a dream, weren't it for the cops. You'll want a car that corners well. My Renault 19 was a lot softer than the Citroen Xsara we bought after that, and lets not even mention the Golf IV I learned to drive on. Loved driving "fast" over bumpy roads where those with lowered cars had to drive very slow.

Btw., http://www.gadling.com/2009/04/29/the-wors...e-gadling-tour/ Check out that video from Michigan.

I'd still push you over to Citroen. C5 and C6 are pretty comfortable, though they can also corner. A Galaxy would also strike a decent balance between comfy and good handling, but not available and also not exactly what you are looking for probably (I wonder how it does it... perhaps the car just flattens the road with its weight). But perhaps the Mondeo, based on the same platform IIRC, can handle similarly?

The latest 5 series BMW with the suspension set to comfort is also supposed to take everything nicely. And when you want to speed, set the car to sport.

Oh, btw. I've read that the CKD Renault Kangoo is stiffer than the CBU one... and my CKD certainly feels rather stiff, conti like. What the...?

This post has been edited by kadajawi: Dec 12 2011, 12:35 AM

The A6 is supposed to have a very hard suspension, while the BMW 5 series can do both hard and soft. A4 I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is hard too.

@chuakz: But you might buy the Camry for the soft ride and not resale value, and those who do that should look at the C5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiSwy3APt3g Maybe you remember the test of the C6 vs the 5 series BMW on Top Gear, where they drove on a dirt track.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn_CDmpdxfc Another video of a C5 on a poorly surfaced road, unfortunately the camera wasn't firmly attached to the car.

Yup. And even cheaper than that is Skoda. Though we are talking about a relatively high level here, for all of these cars.

Not ugly and outdated, serious and timeless. It's meant to move business men around, not to be hanging on a poster in a kids bedroom (I'd be really worried if my kid did that, had I one).

But yes, it's not a beauty queen, and that's not the purpose of it. The CC is more of an CLS opponent, albeit a lower class one. It trades in practicality for looks.

Lets not forget the VW Phaeton... pretty thing, though only if you already like the Passat. lol. W12 engine.

Somehow I feel like the latest Passat is a step backwards, the last gen and the one before that were better looking. Actually the CC is a lowered last-gen Passat, isn't it?

Interior... http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...=20101108185641 this is quite good looking, isn't it? Though http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_OIHTbzY7a8I/TOfh...terior_view.jpg isn't bad either.

I guess the Passat is the German Camry equivalent.

This post has been edited by kadajawi: Dec 17 2011, 08:43 PM

If you want a superb suspension please have a look at the Citroen C5, you can't beat that unless you go for cars like the S class with airmatic option etc.

Regular contis are all pretty stiff, though it improves when you drive fast (then it will be reasonably comfortable). And of course when the car has an adaptive suspension with different settings it should also be ok. But alas I don't think you get that option on reasonably priced cars in Malaysia (I believe elsewhere cars like the focus or golf can be ordered with that...?

But won't Toyota do just enough to not look totally dated, so that together with Toyotas reputation and popularity it will sell the car?

Again AFAIK the Malaysian government has the option to say a company tries to sell a car for less than what it is worth, and then they can jack up the price however they like it. So is it really Nazas fault?

The C5 is nearly 190k... it shouldn't be. But obviously someone thinks it is more premium than the competition. But really it is a 508 (same engine etc.), but tuned for comfort rather than sportiness (with arguably the most comfortable suspension system... in the world (ignoring the system developed by BOSE that has never found it's way into regular cars. So look at it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiSwy3APt3g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r82XdAJMrCc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dczypFna-tI&feature=related

Makes them reliable, that's what people here want. Also better profits (skipping on airbags and safety features is not because of reliability, either they hate Malaysians or they just want to make more money).

There is cheap and cheerful. First episode first season of the top gear relaunch, Clarkson reviewed the Berlingo, and I think the Kangoo falls into the same category, even if we have to pay too much for it.

Toyota has good cars and modern tech, but they need competition so they feel the pressure to offer it. Competition is good, also for Toyota fans. Even though I am not a big fan of the Aygo I think Toyota should bring it to Malaysia.

I agree. I drove the Mondeo based Galaxy, the ride was somewhat firm but ultimately very comfortable, especially at higher speeds. Without feeling floaty and dangerous, 180+ km/h felt absolutely safe und unexciting. With a huge van. Inside it felt nice. Premiumish. really a nice car to drive, and with a base price of about 83k RM... (in Germany...)

My Xsara is relatively reliable. But it is not in Malaysia, so getting parts isn't a big issue.

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Added on December 28, 2011, 2:57 pm@turbocharged: The Japanese do have competitive cars. Nissan Qashqai for example. Nissan Micra. All cars they sell in Europe are safe, usually getting 5 stars now. They may not be as refined or advanced, but they make up for that with reliability. Reasonable, even if a bit expensive cars.

There is/was. To name a few: smart fortwo and forfour. BMW Mini. Audi A2, now A1. Mercedes A Class. They all demand a premium though. If you want an Audi, really just buy a Skoda, Seat or VW. It is the same car, just cheaper made/less premium. I remember that when they introduced a new A4 they simply moved their entire plant to Spain and produced the A4 with minimally modified styling there, selling it under the Seat brand for a much lower price.

Now I am very well aware that these cars are not sold here. But perhaps the importers can be convinced... I'd be particularly be interested in the Skoda range. Cheap, elegant, good. What we would need here.

This post has been edited by kadajawi: Dec 28 2011, 02:57 PM

Great, so it will have the same performance as a 1.4 by VW

lol, true. But only if it fails. I wouldn't go for the 170 hp 1.4, that's a bit risky, but the 140 hp one seems well proven. And there are bigger cc engines with the same tech, so performance will be even better. Also can't beat how a turbocharged engine feels when driving it, unless you enjoy revving hard and high.

4 airbags would be extremely disappointing, that's what I expect from an a segment car. In the class of a Camry there must be at least 6 (the competition has them) or 7 airbags and esc.

This post has been edited by kadajawi: Dec 29 2011, 04:35 PM