Hi my friends,

I would like to gather some information and opinions here....I and my wife already decided to choose downlight type with built-in choke because of
a) easy to install...can install ourself...
b) save labour cost for installation....one downlight market price for installation around rm4-10..depends on which type to use...
c) future if bulbs burn, can change ourself easily...

but, I heard a lot of people said that with built-in choke, downlight will burn VERY EASILY...they used the terms "VERY EASILY".."VERY FAST"..and "CHANGE BULBS CHANGE UNTIL POOR"....I am very scared.....

Anyone, please give me some valuable helps on this matter...Is it a wise decision to choose downlight with built-in choke?

thanks a lot..

This post has been edited by tiensong: Oct 21 2011, 10:36 AM

That one is choke, not transformer.

One 18watt PL-C is about RM 7 - 9 per bulb, Choke is about RM 5+- depend on brand and quality.

With build in choke/ballast bulb is about 2x the non build in choke price.

From my personal experience the build in choke lifespan are much shorter. You can ask the electric / lighting shop, they can confirm this too.


Build in choke give instant start. Changing bulb is easy.

External choke give flicker start, changing bulb is easy.

Please la my parents house has like 30-40 downlights, change 3 every year. Don't be so gullible and believe what "people"
say easily,

Oops...already changed to choke...

errs...not so understand....build-in choke means do not come with a "white" square things? Only a downlight with a bulb....

This post has been edited by tiensong: Oct 21 2011, 10:37 AM

Yup. Build in is without choke.

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Added on October 21, 2011, 10:46 amAnd I find a good quality downlight reflex much better light than cheap RM 20 downlight.

This post has been edited by weikee: Oct 21 2011, 10:46 AM

So your conclusion is:

Build in choke
- give instant start
- changing bulb is easy
- short lifespan

External choke
- give flicker start
- changing bulb is hard - may need to hire electrician
- long lifespan

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Added on October 21, 2011, 10:51 amExternal choke why so big one but I can't see anything on the build in choke type downlight...where the choke hide?


This post has been edited by tiensong: Oct 21 2011, 10:51 AM

External choke, is not hard to change bulb. Is as easy as build in choke. You need to know if the bulb is pull our or twist out.

Only changing choke is slightly harder. Usually choke can last very long. If you are a DIY person, changing choke is not hard.

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Added on October 21, 2011, 11:05 amBuild in choke/ballast bulb because it use electronic components, choke is mainly coils so is bigger.

And another disadvantage of choke, it sometime generate some hummm noise especially for cheap choke, or aged choke.

This post has been edited by weikee: Oct 21 2011, 11:05 AM

Can let us know?

hhmm.....anyone please share how frequent the bulb burn if using built-in choke downlight? depends on luck?

Comparing my new house master bedroomt (bigger room), when i only switch on 3 downlight is brighter than my current house room switch on 4 downlight.

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Added on October 21, 2011, 11:30 amFrom my personal experience. My room have 4 downlight, with 2 bulbs each. All are external choke. Switch on average 5 to 6 hours per day. I only change one bulb after 6 years of using. And that was only done early this year.

This post has been edited by weikee: Oct 21 2011, 11:30 AM

Depend on brand and how many hour you use perday.

I have CFL type (built in choke) and External choke in my home. The external choke bulb can last 8-9 yrs with average 1/2hr perday ON.

While CFL last about 2yrs with 12hr ON. I using hitachi brand with have longer lifespan compare philip and china 1.

Both are easy to change. Either screw in or plug.

Is choke same as ballast?

Is it the age of the downlight? The reflex will get dull after sometime. Compare new 1.

they called choke as 火牛，am I right?

no 火牛 means built-in choke?

sorry, i am lack of knowledge on electronic...haha

Could be too, but i remember my current room never been that bright (comparing to my new house). Could be my house new downlight reflector are better too.

What is that chinese meaning? "Fire cow"

Actually it call choke ballast. Either short it to choke or ballast whatever. Those bult in is electronic ballast which you don't see a big choke in the bulb case. It just have electronic component.

Yeah. If not too sure just ask is choke = "fire cow"

Oh, I saw some long downlight using PLL light, this one use electronic ballast. Is very bright too.

Fire cow is cantonese...

Care to let us know what brand is the downlight and where to get ?

That can reduce the pcs of downlight instal and save the cost.

I still recommend to put same quantity as plan, but put more independent switch so you can save energy usage by turning on what you need..

Check this link, http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1918768/+260 phoenix69 when to the shop too.

This post has been edited by weikee: Oct 21 2011, 03:06 PM

Hmm....Maybe good to drop in to check. Better visit Pudu or PJ branch?

I wend Pudu.

Any pictures to share the difference between the external and internal choke?

TQ

I talked to one guy (cant recall is Fu or Fong or...) from PJ branch. Just ask me to dropby PJ or Pudu to check out if interest and get better discount + selection...
Will see when I free

Internal Ballast its inside the bulb itself so you can't see,
External Ballast is like a square metal box with wires connected to the bulb holder.

Conclusion from the thread, can i say that it's better with a choke? I'm in the same dilemma now, one shop says it's good and another says it not necessary nowadays.

i was told by a downlight supplier, in future the led will getting more popular, but most led bulb are screw type, they advise me using built-in ballast bulb, after few year then only change.
Below is the link for best LED light bulbs of 2011 review
http://buildaroo.com/news/article/top-led-bulb-upgrades-60/

For my next house I'm gonna skip these stupid down lights altogether.

The all in one piece type is expensive and does konk out more frequently then the external type. But the external type, dem noisy if not correctly installed. Changing bulb also difficult. Cutting holes and aligning the square shape holder is a pain. And they are too dim cause block by the glass cover. Enough of these! There are other simpler ways to light up the house

T5

I agree! Too much hassle lah.

I've gone through it so I know how silly it is to put up how many? Only 6 to 8 down lights .
What's involved?

You need to get wireman to pull wires
You need to make the plaster ceiling
Then you need to cut the holes and each hole cost money to cut
Then you find out the some of the holes are in the same place as the supporting aluminum for the plaster ceiling but no choice, you have to cut them if you want your lights to look even.
Then they still don't align straight. Not easy to align square lights.
Then hire the wireman to install them
They will buzz like crazy and you need to get the plaster ceiling guy to come back and patch up those broken sides cause he cut the hole too big or too small
After all the fuss, they are not even bright. I used up 5 square holders and each has two bulbs of 18watt in my bathroom. Still not bright enough!

Hang two crystal chandelier kau tim or install lights at the edge of the plaster ceiling if you want a clean look

This post has been edited by idoblu: Jan 11 2012, 10:06 PM

My downlights with external ballast have yet to burn a single unit in my usage of over 4 years.
Reason is that downlight means multiple lights being turned on in an enclosed area (inside the plaster ceiling) and heats up the area. I guess the external ballast can withstand the heat while the internal can't.
You'll notice that those internal ballast lights in hanging lamps and wall lamps don't burn out as easily as those in downlights. Less light and more ventilation (less heat).

Moving new house now, got the shop to change the downlights to external ballast too. But heard that the quality of the ballasts have drop too.

What brand of down light you are using? My toilet only have 2 downlight, 2 x 18watt each. Is bright enough for me. Maybe you have a big toilet. Mine is only 6x9, and another is only 9.5' x 4.5'

Chandelier, need high ceiling. My wife like chandelier, unfortunately we don't have such high ceiling. My previous room I have 4 downlight total of 8 bulbs. Only change one bulbs after 7 years of using.

Cutting the square downlight do need some patient, but is not hard.

I bought them from Wong lighting. Where got brand wan?
My ceiling is quite high maybe that's the problem. I much prefer halogen but true that they are hot and makan more electric. But at least it's bright

If really have to use down lights I would go back to round ones. No glass. Got its own reflector. Easy to change bulb.

This post has been edited by idoblu: Jan 11 2012, 10:27 PM

Wong Lighting do sell their own brand, All my downlight are from them, and I find is much better than some lousy china made brand. Can't recall the brand is Emulze something.

Halogen is hot, and the gov is banning it by phases. Europe is phasing it out in few more years.

Anyone got real experience with LED lighting? I bet they are not bright as well

DownLight is the current Trend.
As with all trend it will pass.

Usually when you go to any light shop for D/L, the 1st D/L they offer is YET Plus from China. (including Wong Lightning), so the no brand is actually YET Plus.

Then there is Evenzzo (YET sister brand, same wan)

Then YLI if you ask really hard. Malaysia Brand, Ipoh mali. Pricier

In Wong Lighting , their in-house brand is Eliminuz (weikee's D/L), I think its Taiwan Made.

I heard in Hong Kong, the trend now is LED wall lighting or something like that. Dunno true or not. Downlight is the obsolete trend in HK. Anyone knows of this??

4 ft T8 tube about 3000 lumen
18W CFL about 1000 lumen
7W LED about 400 to 600 lumen

so, need about 6 pcs of 7W LED to match the brightness of 1 pc 4 ft T8 tube.

Good LED lights are too expensive.
By the time you cover the ROI, the technology would have been a couple generations later.

What most shops are selling are sub-quality China-made LED lights.
These are affordably expensive. Not bright enough with bad colour, and I heard that the controller circuit do breakdown.
Not worth it.

So flourescent all the way until LED really stabilizes.

LED driver failing rate are higher too.

There were some measurement made on good quality LED vs poor quality LED, at the same wattage of let say 7W, good one can give as high as 700 lumens while poor one may only give less than 400 lumens. Which the brightness is like 1 good LED bulb = 2 poor LED bulb.

Have you notice that most of the good brand for light never hurry to produce LED light bulb. Eg. GE, philip, osram etc.

While china brand are mushrooming and speedy.

It tell me china brand don't R&D and just mass produce it. They can claim last how many thousand of hr. But no warranty. So it talk kok.

While those good brand will comeout the product later due to time for R&D and don't claim that high spec. But will give you 1-5yrs warranty.

So you either payless throw more rubbish (buy more) for china brand or paymore buy less for good brand. I believe the end result is same. Just hard to cross the initial cost.

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Added on January 12, 2012, 10:41 amIt very hard to measure all this lumens when 10 shop you go, don't no what is lumens. People here corrupt with using watt which is incorrect.

And those saleman know, will hide it cause they know LED don't produce bright enough as T5 or CCFL.

This post has been edited by ozak: Jan 12 2012, 10:41 AM

LED is good, but it still need more research and work to be done.

BTW, anyone use the Philip dimmer and remote bulb? Dam cool

Price is dam hot.

Phillips do have LED lights. It's just that the price is not something you want to pay for.

I remember one forummer buying a Phillips Ledino Hanging Lamp. Not sure if it's just more than 1K or above 2K.

I'm going to buy a single LED wall light for my bedtime reading. Reason is that the light is concentrated and cool. RRP is RM250, I can get it at staff price though, RM180.
The model with 2 LED is priced at RM300.

Ikea is selling a unit similar to what I want too. Priced at RM95 I think.
What I don't like is that the driver is an external unit.

China brand ones, I think I saw before priced at RM85, probably can get it at RM70. Light is not good, even the build is not good.


Edit: I think Ikea's LED might be from Osram.

This post has been edited by xecton: Jan 12 2012, 10:51 AM

Good to use LED is Mag torch light. Battery will last very long, and light can go far far.

One of my friend who work in Lumileds told me good brand do come up with LED light bulb first.

But a few years back in the early stage when the LED light bulb is still very expensive they only target for commercial project, the price of LED light bulb is high because they need to cover their research team. And now when the manufacturing cost of LED light bulb is getting cheaper then only they push it to residential usage.

this LED downlight seems nice with a lot of good review

http://www.homedepot.com/buy/lighting-fans...ck-e-39641.html

It's made by cree but not sure if anything similar here. if yes would like to give one a test as so many good review over the net.

Expensive wor. Last year search this mag led light till HCM vietnam. Selling at RM200 for the AA battery type.

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Added on January 13, 2012, 8:52 amBut cannot find in local.

Using this cree downlight need 2pcs instead of 1 for the CFL. The lumens is only 576.

This post has been edited by ozak: Jan 13 2012, 08:52 AM

Mag itself not cheap also...

I've research LED downlights for my new place, it seems CREE have a good name http://cr6.creeledlighting.com/#/content/pages/8.html but they are very expensive! They are not sold in Malaysia, I got the price from the Hong Kong distributor it was HKD700 per light that's RM280, not practical! I've found a China made one from Shenzhen for USD25 per light using Phillips LED. That seems reasonable and it will bring about savings in the electric bill in the long run. I will pick them up when I visit HK over CNY, make a day trip to Shenzhen.



I've also seen a new shop open in Mid Valley concentrating solely on LED lighting, but most of the stuff there were selling is China made with a heavy mark up! LED is definitely the way forward!

You pay what you get. Once you got your hand on the Shenzhen made LED. Do update us how the performance and long term reliability.

MV, no need go in. Is slaughter house. Go Singapore Sim Lim plaza better.

Our local Municipal are moving towards LED as well. Those who travel along Subang Airport road and KL-Bentong will notice the streetlight has been changed to LED and they do look reliable. Maybe can find out the brand and see if they do produce household DL as well

probably CREE, they seem like the main player in this line. US design but of course made in China!

Thanks for the response.

It seems that there are several versions of cree lights. The one shown above is most probable LR6 variant which is on the higher side of pricing.

the one from home depot in US is the CR6 and some places are selling it for used 25 the lowest after some discount. I hope the LED price will go down at a faster rate than before.

I contacted a friend in the states which is willing to help with the purchase however the shops don't have 220v version as US is using 160v. I even checked with Cree and they said they don't have this at the moment.

I did manage to mail the CEO (unintentionally) and he said he's checking with their LED lighting product team to response but I haven't got any replies yet.

Surprisingly also one of the general manager is actually based in penang. check out the link below.

Soo Ghee Lee, vice president and general manager, Asia Pacific, comes to Cree with more than 25 years of optoelectronics experience, most recently with Avago Technologies where he was vice president and general manager for the solid-state illumination division. He will be responsible for the development of new revenue streams and extension of customer relationships in Asia Pacific. Lee’s appointment is effective January 14, 2008, and he will be based in Penang, Malaysia.

http://www.cree.com/press/press_detail.asp?i=1200317922942

hope can get this here and also at a good price so there's high adaptation rate which will drive down the price even further .

Since 2008. That is 4yeras ago and seems no sign of any cree product here and 220V region. That is slow.

Cree is just setup a factory in china last year.

haha didnt notice the date.. I guess no luck then .. hopefully other manufacturers could bring good quality LED here and the price would go down soon.

The spec you show doesn't look good and efficiency. 350lumens at 10w is low. And a 90deg beam won't wide enough space to brighten.

so you think its not worth buying?

If you just look at the price without consider others, plenty of this kind of led light in here. No need travel that far to get.

For me, I won't buy it. It is just same as those crap china led light.

The Future of LED will be 'brighter'.


from http://www1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/ssl/...ics_whyssl.html

Today I was at Ace Hardware saw a Toshiba LED bulb E27 screw in type. Quite bright but cost about Rm100 each

This post has been edited by idoblu: Jan 14 2012, 05:54 PM

Yes, but isnot bright compare to the older lamp, also don't know which smart azz put white. Is dangerous for white light especially raining and high mist condition.

Actually, there are still finalising on the international standard to classify brightness emitted from LED. I do not know what is behind the theory, it seems the current light meter used to measure brightness is not registering the correct brightness of LED, for example, say a 350lumens of a fluorescent light VS 350lumens of LED light, the LED light might look brighter to our eyes.

Older street light are using 250W SON tube, the LED street light, if i remember correctly, is less than 100W each, u may imagine how much our municipal saving every night.

To compensate for the less brightness, they lowered the street lighting pole and shorter gap from pole to pole.

I did point out the mist issue to the supplier, and they showed sample of the LED light in operation during high mist, i can say the picture are showing the LED is performing good. The photo might be photshopped, but so far, i doesn't seems to have much problem travelling on the subang airport road during heavy downpour, just sometimes, eyes couldn't adjust to the sudden change of colour temperature. Anyhow, LED manufacturer are working on different colour temperature for their product as well.

They should use 4500 or lower k color. I travel along that way daily very bad when medium too heavy rain. There still reason why hela light is still yellow.

The LED light look brighter to our eye is because the led wave lenght travel more straight than cfl or fluroscent. CFL light scatter around and able to bright more area than LED. While LED able to light at narrow degree and more concentrate.

When you check at led light bulb spec, you will be able to see the spec of the LED light angle degree like 90,120 or 160 which is no match to the cfl or fluroscent.

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Added on January 14, 2012, 9:45 pmThis light k color should be well understand by this installer or the authority. Why still fail?

Yellow light wave lenght travel far more than bright color or others color. That is why car still use yellow light. fog light still in yellow.

This post has been edited by ozak: Jan 14 2012, 09:45 PM

LED will not die but it will nor replace all type of light bulb.

so far, LED light are more for ID/decorative lights. Buildings are still depending on CFL and other gas tube to achieve acceptable lux level.

US fed gov still not allow to have LED light in all the dept.

I went to this shop before, they are selling CREE brand LED.

Tcl Electronics (Malaysia) Sdn. Bhd.

Address: 1F/20, Ioi Business Park, Bandar Puchong Jaya, Puchong, Selangor, 47100

Hi, can I get some advise on downlights, chokes


1. Are all downlights now typically built in choke?
eg.
https://www.luminancesys.com/products/phili...-inch-round-17w
https://www.panasonic.com/my/consumer/home-...nnc7586805.html

2. Are external chokes still better (from what I read in this thread, its longer lasting, easier to replace) than built in chokes

3. I couldn't find a LED downlight with external choke, can anyone help recommend? I couldn't find much info googling/lazada-ing on downlights with external choke

4. Any particular brand of downlight I should focus on? Panasonic? Philips? Osram?

Thanks in advance

Cheers!

led lights do not need or have chokes

the choke you refer converts from ac to dc, calleed driver

with external driver
https://shopee.com.my/12W-18W-6-Inch-LED-Re...5731.1062096214


built in
https://shopee.com.my/-Sirim-LED-Downlight-...2252.5810256850


now most new ones are built in to save cost

if you lazy to open the ceiling every time, can opt for e27 bulb type
https://shopee.com.my/%F0%9F%8C%9F-ADJUSTAB...4731.5157364730

OMG...I feel like an idiot now...... TQVM for your info!

may I get an opinion, my new home would have about 50-60 downlights (btw, I'm redoing the whole plaster ceiling):

Should I go for all LED downlights (lazada pricing is about RM19-RM23 for philips-Meson and panasonic) or some other alternative (LED lightbulb or any others which I haven't research yet on what is available at the moment)
If alternative, why? (cheaper lights or installation/electricity/durability/easy of replacing, etc)

Based on what I read, to replace these downlight (https://www.lighting.philips.com.my/consumer/p/recessed-spot-light/5920431H1), I just need to screw the wires in right? Still, it seems "harder" than my current "screw in downlight bulbs"

Cheers!

TQ!

For this particular brand : Philips Meson 17W (https://www.lazada.com.my/products/philips-meson-led-downlight-5-6-13w-17w-led-philips-downlight-59464-59465-59466-59467-i1135416669-s3222830184.html?), is this with external driver or built in?
Is the red circle the driver that comes with the downlight or "something" my electrician has to install for me as part of "installation of lightning point"?





This is what I have currently at my home, just screw in/screw out.
Would you go for this kinda e27 bulb or a LED downlight like Philips meson?

Cheers!

it is up to you really.

the socketable type aka screw in type usually e27 socket are easy to replace. but dont look as beautiful and usually have lesser light output per watt due to the bulb inside a downlight-housing. the led bulbs might have certain limitations like certain downlight housing might not be suitable due to design that is poor in venting out the heat accumulated in the housing.

led downlights(like the philips meson) look better and usually have less glare and sharpness of the light as the light output is spread out over the diameter. a bit harder to replace if dont have the skills or tools. replacement is buying the correct diameter light, TURN OFF THE POWER, pull down the failed light, test the wire terminal with testpen to make sure no power, unscrew the failed light wire, screw in the new light wire, test the light by power on then finally power off the light and push the light into the ceiling hole.

a good quality led light would last many many years without needing replacement. dont get those lousy unbranded crap. those will fail in less than a year.

philips is built in.

driver always comes together with the led light if external driver

https://www.lighting.philips.com.my/consume...light/5920431H1
Philips Meson is built in. so the wires terminate directly to the light fitting. i suggest you ask the electrician to add an external connector so its easier to change in the future.


i am migrating from the one you show back to light bulb type (reverse of yours)
lazy to change the recessed light every now and then (about 2-3 years once). everytime have to open the plaster ceiling that makes my skin itchy. yes i hated plaster ceiling.
i used to buy expensive philips osram, that last for many years but the light level become dim after the first 1 year of use.
end up i now buy the cheapest rm6 18W and rm7 20w versions

e27 means its very easy to change the bulb, just unscrew and change.
drawback is that there is always some gap that ceiling dust may fall down. so for light above your dining table, use the recessed.

This post has been edited by fireballs: May 6 2021, 11:38 PM

TQ slimey and fireball for your input!

guess it's boils down to the user's preference. e27 screw in or recessed.

knowing me, I'll go with e27 for easy replacement, while wifey will be wanting the recessed built in drivers for aesthetic looks...
haiz....another headache of reno, all this small things to look into.

Thanks again!

hi fireballs,

1. may I know where you getting your casing from? I went to 2 light shops today. both shops don't sell it
shopee and lazada can easily find, but I read that there's quite a bit of difference in quality right? (such as the reflector and casing).

2. Gap you mentioned is between the ceiling and the bulb itself? Are the gaps as per the blue and green arrows?


3. Having this sort of casing would require at least 5-6 inches of space above the plaster ceiling?

Thanks!



This post has been edited by vernee26: May 8 2021, 09:22 PM

1. Mine from shopee. Mine is square 6inch.lagi difficult to find. Only 2 3 seller I remember. Led is quite directional so the quality of reflector is less important. The diffuser of the led bulb does most of the job.
2. Gap is at the e27 socket and the reflector cone on top. Compare to the flush lamps that don't have gap lah.
3. Yes. Measure first.

This post has been edited by fireballs: May 8 2021, 11:36 PM