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> Non-muslim not allow to hold event, with muslim?- Selangor

randyhow
post Oct 10 2011, 11:16 PM


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Selangor Sultan backs Jais church raid, no one to be charged

SHAH ALAM, Oct 10 — The Selangor Sultan ruled that the state religious authority’s raid on Damansara Utama Methodist Church (DUMC) on August 3 was legitimate.

But Sultan Sharafuddin Idris Shah said today that although the Selangor Islamic Religious department (Jais) had found evidence of attempts to subvert Muslims, it was “insufficient” for further legal action.

The Ruler said therefore no one would be prosecuted, and Jais will provide counselling to the Muslims who were present in the church during the raid.

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysi...-to-be-charged/
Does this mean Non-Muslim are not allowed to invite any Muslim to any Non-Islam event/dinner/gathering?... or do any Charity to any Muslim?

so muslim kenot go Christmas party, Deepavali celebration, non-muslim's marriage ceremony and funeral?

and muslim kenot accept any charity from non-muslim?

This post has been edited by randyhow: Oct 10 2011, 11:27 PM
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Fei Kei
post Oct 10 2011, 11:21 PM


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QUOTE(randyhow @ Oct 10 2011, 11:16 PM)
Does this mean Non-Muslim are not allowed to invited any Muslim to any Non-Islam event/dinner/gathering?... or do any Charity to any Muslim?

so muslim kenot go Christmas party, Deepavali celebration, non-muslim's marriage ceremony and funeral?

and muslim kenot accept any charity from non-muslim?
*
tis Hypocrite, dont let me get started with Kavita kaur...
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randyhow
post Oct 10 2011, 11:28 PM


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QUOTE(Fei Kei @ Oct 10 2011, 11:21 PM)
tis Hypocrite, dont let me get started with Kavita kaur...
*
who is Kavita Kaur?.. blink.gif
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Fei Kei
post Oct 10 2011, 11:32 PM


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QUOTE(randyhow @ Oct 10 2011, 11:28 PM)
who is Kavita Kaur?.. blink.gif
*
http://www.google.com.my/search?q=%20froli...iw=1024&bih=629

This post has been edited by Fei Kei: Oct 10 2011, 11:33 PM
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randyhow
post Oct 10 2011, 11:50 PM


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QUOTE(Fei Kei @ Oct 10 2011, 11:32 PM)
ooo...okay... anyway he's the ruler of Islam in Selangor,... we non-muslim got nothing to say,... it is just sad we kenot socialize with our muslim friends anymore, since denying his order is a traitor,... else u'll be accuse of proselytizing muslim...
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Mihawk7
post Oct 11 2011, 12:01 AM


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i think the problem is the venue.
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raul88
post Oct 11 2011, 12:11 AM


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For, never will the Jews be pleased with you nor the Christians unless you follow their religion. Say: ' Behold Allah's guidance is the only (true) guidance.'

Al Quran 2:120


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Sophiera
post Oct 11 2011, 12:20 AM


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So much for 1Malaysia. One day we can't even touch Muslim's shoulders because our hands handled 'unclean' stuff.

How to 1Malaysia like this? We can't even talk to them beyond superficial levels. At this rate, Britain and Holland will be more multicultural than us, if not already is.
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randyhow
post Oct 11 2011, 12:21 AM


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QUOTE(Mihawk7 @ Oct 11 2011, 12:01 AM)
i think the problem is the venue.
*
why is that a problem?


Added on October 11, 2011, 12:24 am
QUOTE(raul88 @ Oct 11 2011, 12:11 AM)
For, never will the Jews be pleased with you nor the Christians unless you follow their religion. Say: ' Behold Allah's guidance is the only (true) guidance.'

Al Quran 2:120
*
Is this Quran verse saying "don't friends Jews and Christians"?

This post has been edited by randyhow: Oct 11 2011, 12:24 AM
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jflcorp
post Oct 11 2011, 12:49 AM


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The problems lies not with HRH The Sultan of Selangor. It lies with the evangelistic church who tempts fate with doing such an event. It is the law not to propogate other religions unto a Muslim.

That is the LAW. And it is a Muslim Law by Syariah Code, so it doesn't infringe unto a non Muslim's rights until they break it. HRH the Sultan as the Head of Islam in Selangor cannot just sit down and do nothing. HRH had all the rights and powers to absolve the JAIS officers.

Back to the egoistic church who breached the law, it just proves, certain things are there for a reason. They are lucky they didn't get their license revoked for committing the offense. Why invite Muslims for a religious event, disguised as a charitable dinner? Don't spoil charity by mixing in elements of conversion in them.

As a non Muslim myself, I feel, it serves the damansara church to do their evangelistic work better to keep it amongst themselves. If we don't want to convert then it's our damn right! Why go through all the devious means of masquerading your evangelistic efforts to convert non believers with gifts and charity?


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slimey
post Oct 11 2011, 12:59 AM



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QUOTE(jflcorp @ Oct 11 2011, 12:49 AM)
The problems lies not with HRH The Sultan of Selangor. It lies with the evangelistic church who tempts fate with doing such an event. It is the law not to propogate other religions unto a Muslim.

That is the LAW. And it is a Muslim Law by Syariah Code, so it doesn't infringe unto a non Muslim's rights until they break it. HRH the Sultan as the Head of Islam in Selangor cannot just sit down and do nothing. HRH had all the rights and powers to absolve the JAIS officers.

Back to the egoistic church who breached the law, it just proves, certain things are there for a reason. They are lucky they didn't get their license revoked for committing the offense. Why invite Muslims for a religious event, disguised as a charitable dinner? Don't spoil charity by mixing in elements of conversion in them.

As a non Muslim myself, I feel, it serves the damansara church to do their evangelistic work better to keep it amongst themselves. If we don't want to convert then it's our damn right! Why go through all the devious means of masquerading your evangelistic efforts to convert non believers with gifts and charity?
*
don't jump the gun yet......

1stly......what evidence are there?
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ray123
post Oct 11 2011, 01:41 AM


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Maybe the next hot news piece would be a Christian turning Muslims away from a charity or donation drive. Whatever will they say then?
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dkk
post Oct 11 2011, 02:27 AM


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QUOTE(jflcorp @ Oct 11 2011, 12:49 AM)
The problems lies not with HRH The Sultan of Selangor. It lies with the evangelistic church who tempts fate with doing such an event. It is the law not to propogate other religions unto a Muslim.

That is the LAW. And it is a Muslim Law by Syariah Code, so it doesn't infringe unto a non Muslim's rights until they break it. HRH the Sultan as the Head of Islam in Selangor cannot just sit down and do nothing. HRH had all the rights and powers to absolve the JAIS officers.
Non-Muslims are not subject to Syariah. Unless they break it. Then they are. rclxub.gif
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Hollow21
post Oct 11 2011, 03:36 AM


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QUOTE(jflcorp @ Oct 11 2011, 12:49 AM)
The problems lies not with HRH The Sultan of Selangor. It lies with the evangelistic church who tempts fate with doing such an event. It is the law not to propogate other religions unto a Muslim.

That is the LAW. And it is a Muslim Law by Syariah Code, so it doesn't infringe unto a non Muslim's rights until they break it. HRH the Sultan as the Head of Islam in Selangor cannot just sit down and do nothing. HRH had all the rights and powers to absolve the JAIS officers.
The problem doesn't lie with anyone. The problem is really the LAW. This whole issue is because Islam is practised too strictly in Malaysia and the law has been modified to this effect over many years. There is no freedom of religion practice in Malaysia not for Muslims. This problem of Christians trying to convert Muslims will not occur if Muslims are free to choose their religion. The Christians can sing their hearts out and the Muslims can listen to all they want. Ultimately, the choice of belief belongs to the individual. This choice was never given to Muslims in this country.

I don't even know why Malaysia has this problem of conversion. Indonesia doesn't have a problem. No wonder their country is on a roll while we are still debating issues like this. They are probably laughing at us right now.
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jflcorp
post Oct 11 2011, 06:54 AM


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QUOTE(dkk @ Oct 11 2011, 02:27 AM)
Non-Muslims are not subject to Syariah. Unless they break it. Then they are.  rclxub.gif
*
Don't just read something word for word, then without understanding the whole context raise hell on part of a statement just to satisfy yourself.

In the damansara church case, when those church crusaders encroached and breached the syariah law that nobody can propogate another religion unto a Muslim, they were then subject to the Jais officers enforcing that law on them. Understand?

The problems lies on the defiant church who thought they could just break the law. How holy is that?


Added on October 11, 2011, 6:59 am
QUOTE(Hollow21 @ Oct 11 2011, 03:36 AM)
The problem doesn't lie with anyone.  The problem is really the LAW.  This whole issue is because Islam is practised too strictly in Malaysia and the law has been modified to this effect over many years.  There is no freedom of religion practice in Malaysia not for Muslims.  This problem of Christians trying to convert Muslims will not occur if Muslims are free to choose their religion.  The Christians can sing their hearts out and the Muslims can listen to all they want.  Ultimately, the choice of belief belongs to the individual.  This choice was never given to Muslims in this country. 

I don't even know why Malaysia has this problem of conversion.  Indonesia doesn't have a problem.  No wonder their country is on a roll while we are still debating issues like this.  They are probably laughing at us right now.
*
Why are you christians so pent up about this? Do you think it is your God given right to convert as many people as you can? Yes, it is the law that you cannot convert a Muslim, so what?! Everytime i see some christian from whatever church trying to convert somebody else blindly into their faith.

So because there is this law forbidding you crusaders from converting the Muslims, you all got a hell of an issue? Q

This post has been edited by jflcorp: Oct 11 2011, 06:59 AM
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miloy2k
post Oct 11 2011, 07:12 AM


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N.a. for swk n kelantan afaik.
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jimmyay
post Oct 11 2011, 07:53 AM


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I believe religion is between myself and god. And i don't need human law to justify it.
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prophetjul
post Oct 11 2011, 08:09 AM


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QUOTE(jflcorp @ Oct 11 2011, 12:49 AM)
The problems lies not with HRH The Sultan of Selangor. It lies with the evangelistic church who tempts fate with doing such an event. It is the law not to propogate other religions unto a Muslim.

That is the LAW. And it is a Muslim Law by Syariah Code, so it doesn't infringe unto a non Muslim's rights until they break it. HRH the Sultan as the Head of Islam in Selangor cannot just sit down and do nothing. HRH had all the rights and powers to absolve the JAIS officers.

Back to the egoistic church who breached the law, it just proves, certain things are there for a reason. They are lucky they didn't get their license revoked for committing the offense. Why invite Muslims for a religious event, disguised as a charitable dinner? Don't spoil charity by mixing in elements of conversion in them.

As a non Muslim myself, I feel, it serves the damansara church to do their evangelistic work better to keep it amongst themselves. If we don't want to convert then it's our damn right! Why go through all the devious means of masquerading your evangelistic efforts to convert non believers with gifts and charity?
*
Hiya

In Sabah, many muslims enter churches to attend FUNERAL services to bid their
last respects/farewell to their good friends..............in the services, the gospel is preached
as it is to do with LIFE after. HOW?

Next, christians are to taught to do good irrespective of colour and religion.
How can a christian community turn away anyone who needs help?
Wheres love and mercy? whats devious about showing these?
Are these attributes not above ANY LAW?
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soundsyst64
post Oct 11 2011, 08:49 AM


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Menangisi murtad dan zakat — Mohd Asri Zainul Abidin
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/print/s...-zainul-abidin/
Aug 25, 2011

25 OGOS — Minggu lepas saya dan beberapa orang sahabat pergi menemui salah seorang dari 12 individu yang dikaitkan dengan isu murtad baru-baru ini. Dia seorang janda yang mempunyai tiga orang anak. Usianya masih muda. Latar pendidikannya saya rasa “amat sederhana”. Saya tidak pergi untuk mempersalahkannya kerana pergi ke gereja dan terjebak dalam usaha kristianisasi. Saya pergi untuk membolehkan dia merasakan bahawa masih ramai yang ingin mengambil berat tentangnya. Lebih penting lagi, saya pergi untuk mengetahui apakah yang membawa dia sehingga terpaksa meminta simpati dan bantuan hidup dari pihak gereja.

Sedih

Saya sedih mendengar ceritanya. Menurutnya, dirinya seorang janda yang ditinggalkan suami. Terpaksa menanggung hidup tiga orang anak. Dalam kesempitan hidup yang amat, diminta keluar dari rumah sewa dan tenat mencari sesuap nasi untuk diri dan anak-anak dia pergi merintih di pejabat zakat. Dia tidak dilayan. Bahkan pegawai bertugas dengan tegas memberitahunya peruntukan sudah habis. Rayuannya tidak diendahkan.

Dia keluar berusaha lagi. Dia berjaya mendapatkan surat sokongan ahli politik. Kembali ke pejabat zakat membawa surat tersebut, terus sahaja dia mendapat peruntukan zakat. Peruntukan yang kononnya sudah habis sebelum itu, kembali ada untuknya. Dengan berbekalkan wang zakat itu dia berusaha survive. Dia juga pergi ke bahagian kebajikan masyarakat, juga tidak dilayan.

Dia bekerja untuk meneruskan hidupnya yang sempit. Di tempat kerja, melihatkan keadaannya yang susah dan miskin maka ada rakan sekerja yang beragama kristian mencadangkan untuk dia pergi ke suatu tempat yang mudah dan mesra dalam memberikan bantuan.

Di situlah bermula hubungan dia dengan pihak gereja. Apa tidaknya, dia susah, kehidupan terhimpit dan anak-anak yang masih kecil memerlukan makanan dan perlindungan. Pihak gereja membantu keperluan hidupnya. Diberikan wang serta menziarahi keluarganya. Mereka tidak menjadikan dia peminta sedekah, tetapi mereka menggunakan pendekatan “mesra dan saying”. Hatinya terpaut dengan kehalusan budi.

Walaupun saki baki akidahnya membantah untuk dia menukar agama, tetapi dia tidak dapat menafikan perasaan sayang dan terhutang budi kepada pihak gereja yang berjasa menyelamatkannya. Bagaimana mungkin untuk dia merasai kehebatan Islam di saat penganut yang seagama dengannya tidak memperdulikannya. Bahkan enggan membantunya.

Bagaimana pula dia dapat melihat kesilapan pihak gereja secara lahiriahnya sedangkan ternyata merekalah menolongnya? Orang mungkin berfalsafah dan berceramah secara retorik, namun jiwa insani terpengaruhi dengan apa yang dia rasai. Sakit demam anak-anaknya pihak gereja yang mengambil berat. Makan-minum mereka, pihak gereja yang membiayai. Bahkan keperluan rumah juga diberikan satu persatu.


Tangkap

Menurutnya, dia tidak menukar akidahnya, tetapi dia terus ke gereja membawa anak-anaknya. Anak-anaknya diterapkan ajaran Kristian oleh pihak gereja. Diajar nyanyian keagamaan dan nilai-nilai budi tertentu. Baginya, dilakukan semua itu untuk hidup. Rupanya ramai lagi yang senasib dengannya berada di bawah bantuan pihak gereja.

Sebahagian mereka memang menukar agama kerana kecewa dengan sikap masyarakat Islam dan terpengaruh dengan budi pihak gereja. Menurutnya juga, tiada paksaan dari pihak gereja. Cumanya, pendekatan mereka amat mempengaruhi.

Akhirnya, apabila pihak berkuasa agama mengetahui dia ke gereja, dia ditangkap untuk kali pertama dan beritanya disiarkan dalam akhbar. Menurutnya, sebaik sahaja ditangkap dan beritanya tersiar di media barulah pejabat zakat tergesa-gesa datang ke rumahnya. Begitu juga pihak kebajikan masyarakat. Dia memberitahu kepada pihak zakat bahawa dia ingin membuka taska. Mereka menyuruh dia mendapatkan rumah yang sesuai dan mereka akan bantu. Dia pun mendapatkan sebuah rumah yang mereka setujui yang agak besar dan sudah pasti sewanya agak tinggi.

Malangnya, selepas dia menyewa rumah tersebut, selama tujuh bulan pihak zakat tidak menghulurkan bantuan kepadanya. Terkapai-kapai ketika itu. Pihak gereja jugalah yang datang dan melangsaikan kesempitannya untuk menjelaskan sewa rumah tersebut. Sehinggalah apabila timbul isu, pegawai zakat menghubungi dan meminta agar dia memaklumkan kepada pihak yang bertanya bahawa pegawai zakat memang ada datang.

Ya, selepas itu memanglah pihak zakat memberikan satu jumlah bantuan yang agak besar kepadanya dengan “tukaran” yang tidak dapat saya maklumkan di sini. Semasa pihak berkuasa agama membuat penyiasatan ke atas gereja berkenaan, dia berada dalam gereja berkenaan bersama dengan sejumlah orang Islam yang lain yang senasib dengannya.

Walaupun, kali kedua media menyiarkan dia termasuk dalam senarai murtad dalam peristiwa itu, hakikatnya dia tidak murtad, cumanya ada di situ bersama dengan mereka yang senasib dengannya. Namun, menurutnya memang ada yang murtad.

Alhamdulillah dia masih kekal dengan keislamannya. Semuanya itu kerana desakan hidup. Terus-terang dia sebut “semua untuk wang kerana saya ingin membesarkan anak-anak saya”. Semasa saya menziarahinya — tanpa notis awal — dia baru sahaja selesai menunaikan solat terawih. Menurut dia memang ramai lagi yang terpengaruh dengan usaha kristianisasi yang dilakukan.

Mereka yang banyak terlibat terdiri dari kalangan ibu tunggal yang miskin, saudara baru muslim yang tidak dipedulikan, wanita yang mengandung tanpa suami, pesakit AIDS dan juga Muslim dari Sabah dan Sarawak yang dalam kesusahan.

Apa yang hendak dipelikkan, begitulah tabiat agama yang merasakan mereka berkhidmat untuk Tuhan. Apa yang hendak pelik jika gereja mengajar ajaran Kristian kerana itu memang kerja gereja. Tak mungkin gereja hendak berdakwah kepada Islam.

Namun yang pelik apabila ada negeri yang puluhan individu yang mempunyai Ph.D dan master’s dalam pengajian Islam yang disahkan oleh kerajaan tetapi tidak dibenarkan mengajar Islam di masjid dan menyampaikan Islam kepada orang Islam.

Salah Siapa?

Jika kita ingin melepaskan diri, mudah sahaja, kita letakkan kesalahan ini kesemua di pihak gereja. Kita tuduh merekalah punca segalanya. Kemudian kita buat demonstrasi, kita bakar semangat orang awam untuk bangun menentang gereja yang melakukan aktiviti bantuan dan “dakwah”. Adapun kita yang tidak membantu dan berdakwah ini, tidak perlulah disalahkan. Begitukah kita? Supaya orang dapat melupakan kesilapan kita, kita letakkan segala dosa ke atas orang lain semata.

Cubalah bayangkan jika ada sebuah rumah yang didiami oleh satu keluarga yang besar dan kaya tiba-tiba salah seorang ahli rumah itu lari ke rumah jiran atas atasan tidak diberikan perhatian dan mendapat perlindungan serta makanan. Sementara si jiran sebelah pula menghulurkan bantuan dengan pelbagai tawaran.

Apakah suatu penyelesaian yang tuntas dengan hanya kita mencadangkan agar dibakar rumah jiran, atau ditangkap si jiran atau dihukum si jiran kerana mempengaruhi ahli keluarga kita. Dalam masa yang sama kita, kita tidak persoalkan tanggungjawab kekeluargaan yang kita abaikan selama ini.

Zakat

Saya tidak menafikan usaha-usaha baik pengurusan zakat yang telah pun berjaya dilakukan. Kita tahu, zakat kita banyak. Jika dihimpun seluruh negara, mungkin mencecah lebih satu billion. Itu setiap tahun. Bangunan-bangunan zakat cantik dan indah. Iklan-iklan mengutip zakat juga canggih dan mahal. Gaji-gaji yang terlibat mengurusnya jangan ditanya lagi. Cara membayar zakat juga dipermudahkan dengan pelbagai kaedah dan teknologi. Tiba-tiba si miskin kita terpaksa merintih simpati dari gereja?

Sesetengah pegawai zakat bersifat begitu meterialistik. Berwajah manis jika hadir di depannya pembayar zakat, tapi berwajah suram jika yang hadir itu pemohon zakat. Tiada semangat dakwah dan ukhuwwah Islamiyyah. Pemohonan menjadi sulit dan sukar. Apatahlagi jika mak cik tua yang uzur disuruh mengisi borang. Maka, pemohon zakat bagaikan peminta sedekah.

Sebab itu barangkali ramai fakir yang tidak sanggup ke pejabat zakat. Jika program “Bersamamu” boleh menemui si fakir saban minggu, kenapa pula pihak zakat gagal mengesan mereka. Jika usaha mengutip zakat begitu hebat, alangkah baik dihebatkan juga usaha mencari mereka yang layak menerima zakat. Mencari orang miskin itu penting, bukan menunggu mereka datang. Bukan semua yang miskin sanggup atau dapat datang kepada pihak zakat.

Menurut al-Quran, yang miskin tidak meminta itu lebih patut diutamakan. Firman Allah (maksudnya): “(Pemberian sedekah itu) adalah untuk golongan fakir miskin yang telah menentukan dirinya (dengan menjalankan khidmat atau berjuang) pada jalan Allah (membela Islam), yang tidak berupaya mengembara di muka bumi (untuk berniaga dan sebagainya); orang yang jahil menyangka mereka kaya, kerana mereka menahan diri daripada meminta-minta. Engkau kenal mereka dengan (melihat) tanda-tanda mereka, mereka tidak meminta daripada orang ramai secara mendesak-desak, dan (ketahuilah), apa jua yang kamu belanjakan dari harta yang baik maka sesungguhnya Allah sentiasa mengetahuinya.”( Surah al-Baqarah ayat 273)

Berilah zakat kepada mereka, kerana itu memang hak mereka. Jangan jadikan mereka pengemis di pejabat zakat. Berilah dengan kasih dan perancangan agar mereka keluar dari daerah kemiskinan. Kata Saidina ‘Umar r.a.: “Apabila engkau memberi zakat, kayakanlah mereka”. Kata Ibn Hazm (meninggal 456H): “Apa yang kami tahu tiada sahabah yang berbeza dalam hal ini” (Ibn Hazm, Al-Muhalla 4/280, Beirut: Dar al-Kutub al-‘ilmiyyah).

Bahkan zakat boleh diberikan kepada bukan muslim yang miskin atas peruntukan fakir dan untuk dakwah atas peruntukan muallaf. Lihatlah perbahasan fekah yang lebih luas. Jika zakat berfungsi, bukan muslim akan tertarik dengan Islam. Jika ia tidak berfungsi, yang sudah Islam pun ingin keluar dari Islam!

* Prof Madya Dr Mohd Asri Zainul Abidin adalah ahli akademik dan bekas Mufti Perlis.
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kalandra
post Oct 11 2011, 08:53 AM


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QUOTE(randyhow @ Oct 10 2011, 11:16 PM)
Does this mean Non-Muslim are not allowed to invite any Muslim to any Non-Islam event/dinner/gathering?... or do any Charity to any Muslim?

so muslim kenot go Christmas party, Deepavali celebration, non-muslim's marriage ceremony and funeral?

and muslim kenot accept any charity from non-muslim?
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Strange. Got evidence, but not enough for legal action?

Show the public what are the evidence are then, let the public be the judge.
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