Not sure if any distributor picked it up. Torrents la.

I too would have liked to seen Bellamy come on but we had to be careful not to throw caution to the wind given that Fergie had brought on Rooney and Lil Pea, although the former was almost a defensive midfielder. The question would have been who to take off? Downing, Kuyt and Suarez were playing well and Kuyt almost scored from a pinpoint cross courtesy of Downing. Bellamy isn't as defensively sound as Kuyt which makes Suarez the obvious choice to be replaced but I think everyone would agree he had to stay on.

Thing is I feel we still had to give them mancs some respect knowing very well that they are more than capable of scoring late goals, hence the apprehension to bring on anymore attacking minded players.



It's a conundrum really. Prior to Suarez, we relied heavily on Stevie and Torres but it almost can't be helped. If you have your best players on the pitch, why wouldn't you give them the ball as often as possible? Stevie in particular almost demands for the ball each time he's free. I agree however that it's a matter of concern we look so different without Suarez on the pitch.

Let's look beyond our next game for awhile. In fact let's look to our last 10 games of the season. With the exception of Chelsea and possibly Villa, we are up against mid to lower table sides. One can argue that relegation battlers in particular will be playing harder to stay in the Premiership but one could also argue that we'll be potentially fighting for a top four finish. If we can keep pace until March/April, we stand a decent chance. If we do get far in the FA Cup, it means we won't necessarily have to rest players with supposed, 'easier' games during the tail end of the season.

Downing has looked like a decent buy so far. I mean he's hit the post, he's put some crosses in and he's gone off on penetrating runs. The stats however, tell a different story. I read somewhere (can't remember the source at the moment) that he has zero assists thus far.

It's probably because they've decided that Suarez is guilty.Don't know, don't visit anymore. It'll end if it's found he isn't. I think we should discuss every aspect of the club, negative and positive.

You do know that it was a tongue-in-cheek comment, no?



Skrtel did lose Hernandez but that is what happens when you mark space, not players. When players move in between zones, they don't necessarily get picked up by a defender instantly. I think Skrtel was defending his zone. If he were marking a player, I doubt he would be pitted against one of the shortest on the pitch. I hate to say this but if anything Carra lost Welbeck and it was he who first glanced the ball on. It could have fallen anywhere after that.

Suarez is not saint. This isn't exactly the best kept secret in the world. However, neither is Evra but this isn't a court of precedence. We have to look at this incident in isolation and by all means, punish Suarez if the accusations are true. No player is bigger than the club. However, action should be taken against Evra if indeed the accusation are proven to be false. We can't let both of them off the hook. Someone is right and the other, wrong.

Guys, why do you even bother reading the other thread anymore if you know what's being said? I've stopped doing so a long time ago. I mean people can insult us, even me personally, but words mean nothing if no one reads them. We're all here to have a discussion, with people who know how to have a discussion, not those who throw insults around when they can't put up an argument. I only read and post in threads where we can do the former. Before the bias police arrests me, might I add that I've always advocated posting sense even in our own forum, and not resorting to one liner comments. It's a forum, not a chat room.

We were at fault during Heysel, no doubt. Fans had been throwing projectiles at one another prior to the incident and this sparked of a violent retaliation from those in red. Nothing can justify what happened in the end as lives were lost. English teams were banned from Europe thereafter and Everton are still bitter because they would have qualified for Europe had the ban not been imposed. Not something we want to see happen again (Heysel or Everton qualifying for Europe). When we played Juventus in 2005 at Anfield, the Kop held up a mosaic that read Amicizia which means "friendship" in Italian. It was generally well received by the away fans but a small section turned their backs in protest.

As for Hillsborough, we were definitely not at fault. The police packed too many bodies into the Leppings Lane and it was a disaster waiting to happen. It's fantastic to hear that the Hillsborough documents will finally be revealed and hopefully the truth will be out and justice will be done. http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/...sclosed?cc=4716




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Good post by Paul Tomkins if you have the time. It's a little lengthy.

http://tomkinstimes.com/2011/10/rafa-sets-...omkins+Times%29

The latest in the ongoing Suarez vs. Evra saga. http://www.cleansheetsallround.co.uk/2011/...united-defender?

Now before I go on, please don't bother to reply if you're just going to hurl insults at either player. I'm trying to look at this in more detail. The club has demanded that action be taken against Evra for defamation. Man Utd on the other hand have remained silent over the matter so far. I know Evra has spoken to Ferguson about pursuing the matter and I wonder if the club will get behind him soon. Whichever way this case goes, someone will be punished. This incident has received too much publicity and attention for it to just go away.

Character wise, you could build cases against both. Evra has been involved in similar controversies before (though only the Senegal one was a result of a direct accusation from him, and now the Suarez incident of course) but no action has been taken against any of the defendants. Suarez is no stranger to controversy either, with that controversial handball during the World Cup and having bitten an opponent before. This incident has to be taken in isolation however and all evidence should be taken into account. Past behaviour does somewhat indicate the likelyhood someone is to repeat an offence but it isn't conclusive. Just because you killed someone once, it doesn't mean you'll definitely do it again. How likely is it Suarez is racist? When he was at the 2010 World Cup, he became involved in charity work that supported solidarity. Suárez cares about social inequality and in his work he fights against religious, racial and social discrimination - wiki. Anyway the past doesn't define your future and all that's said about the two of them and what happened in the past if moot if there is clear evidence this time round.

At this point however, it seems that the only evidence is on video. Evra has said that Marriner knows what Suarez said but if this we so, he would have been sent off, and Marriner would have reported it, case closed. Not as simple it seems so perhaps Marriner didn't actually hear what was said. He heard what Evra told him. With the number of cameras covering the game, the incident would surely have been caught on video if what Evra says is accurate - that Suarez repeated the word 10 times.

Let's see what happens next.

Don't think it's as simple as that. From the video, it's clear Suarez said something but players do that all the time. It's a matter of whether or not it was racially motivated. Suarez is unique. He's like a colleague who you don't like but respect because he's good at his job. I don't like his on-field antics at times but then he displays a moment of brilliance and you can't help but be in awe.

I said the same darn thing to my friend on Saturday.

Another seed of Einstein's I see. Qualifying for the Champions League is one thing, winning it is another.

We have, 5 times or are you not talking about the Champions League anymore since you brought it up?

I think he's changed topic and is referring to the Premiership now. Happens when you can't go head to head. Anyway, their players are more than welcomed to take their shoes off and hold 19 digits up in the air just as we are entitled to hold up 5. Might get booked for time wasting though.

We have to consider that it's more likely for local products to come through when your club is cash strapped as Everton is. I'm doubtful if either will feature regularly for a top side.

As for taking the piss out of our friendly against Rangers, any organism with some semblance of intellect would have noted the following :-

1) It was a friendly. Why risk injury with a game looming this weekend?
2) It featured mostly fringe players or those returning from injury.
3) It was two clubs coming together to raise funds for two disasters at Hillsborough and Ibrox, not a Champions League match. Anyone who criticises the nature of this match is either ignorant, or disrespecting the lives that were lost, or both.

All things said and done, it isn't even an argument I'd bother getting into. If we had won, they'd have used the same reasons I gave above against us. Always helps to be able to predict the outcome of an argument even before it begins.

I try to use good grammar so mine doesn't deteriorate. Useful to be able to speak and write comprehensible English at work and this is practice, nothing more. Contrary to what you may think I don't sweat buckets trying to structure my sentences properly. Practice.

Funny you should accuse us of being serious and sensitive when your own kin display the very same traits. I've had discussions with the likes of airmood in the past and although we don't agree on a lot of matters, there is a mutual respect. You don't see my calling boxsystem an ass, reason being they articulate their thoughts. How many of youse come in here in inflammatory one liners and how many of us go over? Your lot insult us every day even when we don't have a game on but do you see us responding with useless one liners? The reason I don't post on your thread anymore is because I know I won't get a proper discussion going whether it be down to sensitivity or simple lack of comprehension. If you have weak comprehension of another language, it's not uncommon to misunderstand.

Back to us being sensitive then. How would you expect us to react to insults? With a kiss on the cheek? Your kin come in here, throw insults and expect to be given a pat on the back? If we do slander you, we do it on our thread, not yours, and we have every right to because it is our thread. If you choose to come in and respond, rest assured that we will return the salvo. It's like you said, "banter" or should it only be one way? So you come in here, and make fun of us for not qualifying for the CL. In fact, your post didn't even sound remotely humorous. So what? We're supposed to go, "hahaha good one' in response to that? Don't be hypocritical please. The same thing would happen to any of us here if we did the same on your thread, it's just we choose not to.

Just to add, no, I don't gloat in front of my friends. Other fans can do it if they want but I don't and yes, I do take my football seriously. Deal with it.

Aye at least there were points to debate. Often gets really heated but when we meet on neutral threads we often agreed on footballing matters in general. It's like they say, what happens on the pitch, stays on the pitch.

A tale of missed chances for the second week running. Had we been more clinical, we would be 4 points better off. Squandered some quilt edged chances against the mancs last week and this week, we contrived to smack the post 3 times and missed a total of 29 chances, 9 of them on target. Some credit has to be given to John Ruddy who pulled off at least 2 world class saves from Suarez. Having said that Norwich came out with purpose in the second half and the introduction of Grant Holt made a world of difference as we looked a different team to the one that walked into the tunnel when the half time whistle blew. Carra was given a torrid time by his much larger opponent and found it hard to best him in the air. No surprise that Holt scored from a header. Still, we should have wrapped the game up in the first half.

It was a frustrating result no doubt but I still think there are more positives. We've created more chances in our past two games than our opponents have, as we did against Stoke, but we've failed to convert them into 3 points. I advocate patience. All we can do is to keep creating chances and the goals will eventually come. Keep up the good work Kenny.

After reading several comments I have to stress that in the end, we're still creating more chances than our opponents so I don't see the need for panic. We just aren't putting them away so why are we a laughing stock? When we drop points, your first thoughts shouldn't be about what your friends or other mancs would say, it should be only about what the team could have done better? Who cares what other say or think about us now when we know we are realistically not competing for the title this season? The glass is either half empty or half full. I'm usually pessimistic but given the positives changes over the past year, with new ownership, commercial deals, players, management, etc, I'm optimistic because we're building a solid foundation. One that the mancs have built especially over the past decade. It will take time, deal with it. I think the team did brilliantly in the first half and if we had put away our chances, I'm sure we'd be talking about how well we played which we did. Norwich changed their formation in the 2nd half and we failed to deal with their big centre forwards. I think we played well against the mancs and against Stoke. Unhappy with the results but happy with the team.

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Added on October 23, 2011, 10:02 amWhat's even more frustrating is reading comments that blow hot and cold based purely on emotion. One day happy, one day sad. How can you let your view of the team change in a matter of days? It's a long term relationship and like any relationship, you look to potential and I see a lot of potential based on the positives I mention earlier. You take wins with a pinch of salt and you take dropped points on the chin especially if you're in it for the long haul. Norwich gave even the mancs problems and if they had been more clinical would have had a 2 goal lead at Old Trafford. It was the reverse for us.

I have to echo what redshaun's earlier sentiments. You don't use the team as a tool for bragging. You don't use the team as an instrument to make yourself happy. You should be proud and happy to be supporting Liverpool FC regardless of results on the pitch. I can't understand why fans cannot seem to comprehend that we have just started laying the foundations for a successful future. John Henry is a far better owner than the cowboys were, and we've struck lucrative commercial deals. The results will come in time. All we need to do is to keep trying and we had 29 shots on goal last night. Not for the want of trying.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Oct 23 2011, 10:08 AM

We took a gamble yesterday by fielding an attacking lineup but a calculated one at that. I mean we were at home against a newly promoted side. If you don't go out to attack a team like that who do you go all out against? It almost paid dividend as we dominated proceedings. However we ran the risk of being exposed at the back with no covering midfielder and Norwich exploited this well. If we were to play the tie all over, I would not have changed our intent.

I don't think Skrtel nor Carragher are primary culprits here. Yes, Carra has made a couple of defensive mistakes and Skrtel lacks awareness but have you noticed that each time opponents run at us, it seems they have so much space? If anything, I think we leave Carra and Skrtel exposed on too many occasions. Forget about Holt's goal yesterday. He is as big as a bull and came charging towards the ball. Few defenders would have beaten him to the ball. Error from Reina if anyone and he even flattened Carra in the process. However it wouldn't have mattered as much if we scored.

Now who are we to blame for creating so many chances and not putting them away? I see everyone calling for changes to be made but I believe that you have to play a player to confidence. Who are we to drop? Suarez has missed arguably the most chances out of anyone, so does this mean we drop him? No, because he contributes on other areas and we play him till he regains his sharpness in front of goal because let's face it, he's been missing some pretty decent sitters. However some would disagree as creating chances doesn't seem to matter so long as we don't score. So drop Suarez then. What is the point in twisting and turning and creating chances but not putting them away? My point is that the whole team is creating opportunities and it is only a matter of time before we start putting them away. Does no one see a marked improvement over last season here?