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Science How to explain gravity?, I still can't understand it

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TSrockstar_
post Sep 27 2011, 08:54 PM, updated 15y ago

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General definition from Wikipedia:

Gravitation, or gravity, is a natural phenomenon by which physical bodies attract with a force proportional to their mass. In everyday life, gravitation is most familiar as the agent that gives weight to objects with mass and causes them to fall to the ground when dropped. Gravitation causes dispersed matter to coalesce, and coalesced matter to remain intact, thus accounting for the existence of the Earth, the Sun, and most of the macroscopic objects in the universe. Gravitation is responsible for keeping the Earth and the other planets in their orbits around the Sun; for keeping the Moon in its orbit around the Earth; for the formation of tides; for natural convection, by which fluid flow occurs under the influence of a density gradient and gravity; for heating the interiors of forming stars and planets to very high temperatures; and for various other phenomena observed on Earth.


Based on Newton's Law of Gravity:

Newton's law of universal gravitation states that every point mass in the universe attracts every other point mass with a force that is directly proportional to the product of their masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them.


And later Einstein produce his General Relativity theory:

According to general relativity, the observed gravitational attraction between masses results from their warping of space and time.


So based on Newton's law, gravity is a force that pull one object to another. contradict to Newton's law, einstein stated that gravity is a phenomenon of spacetime curvature.. Newton's Law is proven by experiment but Einstein's General Relativity still remains a theory..

my questions are how to explain gravity accurately? is there any experiment to prove how gravity works? how can an object produce gravity? thanks..
3dassets
post Sep 27 2011, 09:33 PM

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I read about it like 20 years ago and don't remember the details or never doubt something I can't understand. The way I remember, all element no matter how small is floating in a medium of space we don't know what it is and simply inertial / null medium / force... until identify.

Energy of burning star / sun pushes particles and when collide with another will generate gravity and attract more particles into planets over time, gravity is not permanent and will subside, Mars is thought to have gravity like Earth.


dkk
post Sep 28 2011, 02:11 AM

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QUOTE(rockstar_ @ Sep 27 2011, 08:54 PM)
So based on Newton's law, gravity is a force that pull one object to another. contradict to Newton's law, einstein stated that gravity is a phenomenon of spacetime curvature.. Newton's Law is proven by experiment but Einstein's General Relativity still remains a theory..
Different does not necessarily mean contradict. As the saying goes, "there's more than one way to skin a cat".

But yes there are differences between newtonian gravitation and general relativity.

But let's tackle the most important part first. First of all, you need to understand what is a scientific theory. That you use the phrase "still remains a theory" implies that you believe a theory is somehow less widely accepted than a ... (what?). A theory is a widely accept explanation of an observation. There is nothing that is stronger than a theory.

A hypothesis is an untested explanation that is not yet widely accepted. Perhaps this is what you had in mind.

Unfortunately, there is no certainty in science. All theories are provisional, to be temporarily accepted, until a better one comes along.

Actually, general relativity fits better with observational data than newtonian gravitation. All scientist today accepts general relativity as more accurate. But it is also more complex. For slower speeds, much below c (the speed of light in vacumn), the predictions of general relativity and newtonian gravitation converges. Therefore, we use newton's law for calculations, when it is adequate, and because calculations is much easier.

QUOTE
my questions are how to explain gravity accurately? is there any experiment to prove how gravity works? how can an object produce gravity? thanks..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tests_of_general_relativity

Do we have a physicist here who can better answer this question?
peace230
post Sep 29 2011, 02:31 PM

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For me, planet create gravity like an dynamo.

The dynamo in your basikal.

Force cannot be destroy, but can be transform/tranfer.

OK. let say, a planet will gravity/(call gravity power) start pusing until his end. then letup...boom, in a small pieces & flow in space. (we call it dust). Then, due to the masive explosion, enegy isolate far far away to separate part.

So, when the gravity power begin to assembly, it take a million light years.
After assemble, it will automatic suck the dusk arround. The size of the planet depand of the Gravity power. Then new born Planet asemble & start to pusing pusing......

this process repeat & repeat. ...

Curios?????

Who first put the enegy (gravity Power) & dust in the dimesional Call Universal. hmm.gif hmm.gif hmm.gif

Also the same quote:

A mystery of unanswered questions…..
Who are we? Where do we come from?
Where are we going? How do we know. What we think we know?
Why do we believe anything at all?

Countless questions in search of an answer……..
An answer that will give rise to a new question…..
And the next answer will give rise to the next question and so on….
But, in the end, isn't it always the same question?
And always the same answer?

TSrockstar_
post Sep 29 2011, 10:51 PM

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QUOTE(3dassets @ Sep 27 2011, 09:33 PM)
I read about it like 20 years ago and don't remember the details or never doubt something I can't understand. The way I remember, all element no matter how small is floating in a medium of space we don't know what it is and simply inertial / null medium / force... until identify.

Energy of burning star / sun pushes particles and when collide with another will generate gravity and attract more particles into planets over time, gravity is not permanent and will subside, Mars is thought to have gravity like Earth.
*
QUOTE(dkk @ Sep 28 2011, 02:11 AM)
Different does not necessarily mean contradict. As the saying goes, "there's more than one way to skin a cat".

But yes there are differences between newtonian gravitation and general relativity.

But let's tackle the most important part first. First of all, you need to understand what is a scientific theory. That you use the phrase "still remains a theory" implies that you believe a theory is somehow less widely accepted than a ... (what?). A theory is a widely accept explanation of an observation. There is nothing that is stronger than a theory.

A hypothesis is an untested explanation that is not yet widely accepted. Perhaps this is what you had in mind.

Unfortunately, there is no certainty in science. All theories are provisional, to be temporarily accepted, until a better one comes along.

Actually, general relativity fits better with observational data than newtonian gravitation. All scientist today accepts general relativity as more accurate. But it is also more complex. For slower speeds, much below c (the speed of light in vacumn), the predictions of general relativity and newtonian gravitation converges. Therefore, we use newton's law for calculations, when it is adequate, and because calculations is much easier.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tests_of_general_relativity

Do we have a physicist here who can better answer this question?
*
QUOTE(peace230 @ Sep 29 2011, 02:31 PM)
For me, planet create gravity like an dynamo.

The dynamo in your basikal.

Force cannot be destroy, but can be transform/tranfer.

OK. let say, a planet will gravity/(call gravity power) start pusing until his end. then letup...boom, in a small pieces & flow in space. (we call it dust). Then, due to the masive explosion, enegy isolate far far away to separate part.

So, when the gravity power begin to assembly, it take a million light years.
After assemble, it will automatic suck the dusk arround. The size of the planet depand of the Gravity power. Then new born Planet asemble & start to pusing pusing......

this process repeat & repeat. ...

Curios?????

Who first put the enegy (gravity Power) & dust in the dimesional Call Universal.  hmm.gif  hmm.gif  hmm.gif

Also the same quote:

A mystery of unanswered questions…..
Who are we? Where do we come from?
Where are we going? How do we know. What we think we know?
Why do we believe anything at all?

Countless questions in search of an answer……..
An answer that will give rise to a new question…..
And the next answer will give rise to the next question and so on….
But, in the end, isn't it always the same question?
And always the same answer?

*
Yes in theory we can explain it. but can we conduct an experiment on it to prove it? can we produce our own gravity? how can earth crust generate gravity? is it the heat? is it the intense pressure? if gravity is generated by heat and pressure, can we imitate the same process thus create our own gravity? i googled also about black hole and neutron star.. it stated that black hole's gravity is so strong even a light cannot escape.. light as we know it is an electromagnetic radiation with no mass at all.. it is an energy, a series of photons.. how can gravity pull something that has no mass? Newton is proven wrong here..
dkk
post Sep 30 2011, 12:30 AM

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QUOTE(peace230 @ Sep 29 2011, 02:31 PM)
For me, planet create gravity like an dynamo.
The dynamo in your basikal.
Force cannot be destroy, but can be transform/tranfer.
Doesn't quite fit. The dynamo does not create gravity. It generates electricity which is "energy". Gravity is not energy but is a force.

QUOTE
OK. let say, a planet will gravity/(call gravity power) start pusing until his end. then letup...boom, in a small pieces & flow in space. (we call it dust). Then, due to the masive explosion, enegy isolate far far away to separate part.

So, when the gravity power begin to assembly, it take a million light years.
After assemble, it will automatic suck the dusk arround. The size of the planet depand of the Gravity power. Then new born Planet asemble & start to pusing pusing......

this process repeat & repeat. ...
Unless the pieces fly off faster than escape velocity. Then they will never come back.

Ignoring that, there is a flaw in this scenario. What is causing the planet to spin up faster and faster until the pieces fly off?


peace230
post Sep 30 2011, 09:10 AM

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Dynamo concept: i saw a japanese who rotate th dynamo, when the dynamo charge enough, Then, his sambung the dynamo to the mini motor, cos the motor rotate, while the motor rotate the dynamo, dynamo create electric & made the motor move.....but can't hold for longer as the dynamo still in improvement....

Other concept like this: user posted image

First, u need to "Move" it. Then the object will continue move & move. BUt both product will end for sure, Bcos of the gravity in earth, that pull/suck the ernegy.

Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it. - Newton first Law.

Apply this concept: Unival Got force that pull/push, or can it be said comsume (backhole) & assembly at some place. This may make the planet assembly, move, & die.

Like a SUN, will die for one day, Bcos it maybe use the dynamo concept to regenerate the power it self, but when his burning (heat force create light that lighten other planet) his Light/force consume by the planet or unival. Slow slow die when all energy running out.

Of cos...all r based on teori (imaginative + logical).

Still the same curios Problem: who r the first ppl to rotate the dynamo??????? hmm.gif hmm.gif hmm.gif

This post has been edited by peace230: Sep 30 2011, 09:11 AM
Eventless
post Sep 30 2011, 09:51 AM

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QUOTE(rockstar_ @ Sep 27 2011, 08:54 PM)
Based on Newton's Law of Gravity:

Newton's law of universal gravitation states that every point mass in the universe attracts every other point mass with a force that is directly proportional to the product of their masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them.


And later Einstein produce his General Relativity theory:

According to general relativity, the observed gravitational attraction between masses results from their warping of space and time.

*
There's no contradiction between Newton's Law and Einstein' s General Relativity theory. Newton does not say how gravity is produced. He only says how it works on bodies with mass. His law describes the part in bold in Einstein's theory above. Einstein's theory explains where gravity comes from.

QUOTE(rockstar_ @ Sep 29 2011, 10:51 PM)
Yes in theory we can explain it. but can we conduct an experiment on it to prove it? can we produce our own gravity? how can earth crust generate gravity? is it the heat? is it the intense pressure? if gravity is generated by heat and pressure, can we imitate the same process thus create our own gravity? i googled also about black hole and neutron star.. it stated that black hole's gravity is so strong even a light cannot escape.. light as we know it is an electromagnetic radiation with no mass at all.. it is an energy, a series of photons.. how can gravity pull something that has no mass? Newton is proven wrong here..
*
Gravity exists as long as you have bodies with mass in a system. The formula given by Newton only specifies mass and distance as the variables that affect the force of gravity. If Newton's law does not work, we wouldn't be able to put satellites in geostationary orbit.

Photons has both the characteristics of a wave and a particle. Newton's law is still valid.
TSrockstar_
post Sep 30 2011, 11:31 AM

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QUOTE(Eventless @ Sep 30 2011, 09:51 AM)
There's no contradiction between Newton's Law and Einstein' s General Relativity theory. Newton does not say how gravity is produced. He only says how it works on bodies with mass. His law describes the part in bold in Einstein's theory above. Einstein's theory explains where gravity comes from.
Gravity exists as long as you have bodies with mass in a system. The formula given by Newton only specifies mass and distance as the variables that affect the force of gravity. If Newton's law does not work, we wouldn't be able to put satellites in geostationary orbit.

Photons has both the characteristics of a wave and a particle. Newton's law is still valid.
*
now i get it.. this is what happen if we don't pay attention on physic class.. i totally forgot about wave-particle duality.. sorry sir Newton.. so this answer my question about how light cannot escape a black hole or technically a very strong gravity..
dkk
post Sep 30 2011, 07:28 PM

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QUOTE
Dynamo concept: i saw a japanese who rotate th dynamo, when the dynamo charge enough, Then, his sambung the dynamo to the mini motor, cos the motor rotate, while the motor rotate the dynamo, dynamo create electric & made the motor move.....but can't hold for longer as the dynamo still in improvement....
Reminds my of the Steorn Orbo guys

QUOTE(peace230 @ Sep 30 2011, 09:10 AM)
Other concept like this: user posted image
There's another one here

user posted image

Only $3.99 at
http://www.officeplayground.com/Newtons-Cr...-inch-P160.aspx
smile.gif

The description of the product has a note that says
"Please note, the balls do not swing indefinitely and eventually stop."

chiiupe
post Oct 23 2011, 03:19 PM

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QUOTE(rockstar_ @ Sep 29 2011, 10:51 PM)
Yes in theory we can explain it. but can we conduct an experiment on it to prove it? can we produce our own gravity? how can earth crust generate gravity? is it the heat? is it the intense pressure? if gravity is generated by heat and pressure, can we imitate the same process thus create our own gravity? i googled also about black hole and neutron star.. it stated that black hole's gravity is so strong even a light cannot escape.. light as we know it is an electromagnetic radiation with no mass at all.. it is an energy, a series of photons.. how can gravity pull something that has no mass? Newton is proven wrong here..
*
What you should be focusing on are the keywords 'graviton' and 'bosons', both from a branch of physics called particle physics.

EDIT: Other paragraphs are better off removed since I need to fact-check them more thoroughly

This post has been edited by chiiupe: Oct 24 2011, 05:07 PM
dkk
post Oct 23 2011, 10:23 PM

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"... Nonetheless, LHC researchers still believe they will either have found the Higgs by the end of next year or confirmed that it does not exist in the form proposed by the current theory of subatomic particles and their interactions, called the Standard Model.
...
According to Cern, Atlas and CMS have excluded the existence of a Higgs over most of the mass region 145 to 466 GeV with 95% certainty."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14596367


chiiupe
post Oct 24 2011, 04:52 PM

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QUOTE(dkk @ Oct 23 2011, 10:23 PM)
"... Nonetheless, LHC researchers still believe they will either have found the Higgs by the end of next year or confirmed that it does not exist in the form proposed by the current theory of subatomic particles and their interactions, called the Standard Model.
...
According to Cern, Atlas and CMS have excluded the existence of a Higgs over most of the mass region 145 to 466 GeV with 95% certainty."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14596367
*
Can't wait for their results, exciting times we're in
studilicious
post Dec 6 2011, 03:27 PM

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Tell me again why some people think that the swinging bob balls will not stop?
bobby1988
post Jan 16 2012, 10:40 AM

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Gravity is simply distortion of mass in space. How to prove it ?

Apparatus:
5 human (A, B, C, D and E)
1 bowling ball
1 tennis ball
I piece of rectangular cloth, says 1.5m by 1.5m

Procedure:
1. Human A, B, C and D hold the cloth diagonally as tense as possible.
2. Place the bowling ball on to the cloth.
3. Human E then rolled the tennis ball on the cloth at any direction possible.
4. Observe the result

Results and discussions:
1. The cloth represents the space.
2. Bowling ball represents the earth (mass)
3. Tennis ball represents a particular , comets, moon anything with mass.
4. No matter which direction you threw the tennis ball, it will spiral down to the bowling ball (earth)
5. Note that the cloth only represents one space direction, says, x-direction, and we have another 3 axes. I hope you get the idea here.

Conclusion:
Gravity is simply distortion of mass in space.

I dont understand how hard is it to explain.

If you cant explain something simply, you don't understand it. by Einstein.

This post has been edited by khinfai: Jan 16 2012, 10:42 AM
SUSWintersuN
post Jan 16 2012, 11:12 AM

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Gravity can be explained by:

When you throw something up it will natural come down to ground

Thing in air will come down to ground. Nothing can suspend in air without help from other factors
IvanWong1989
post Jan 20 2012, 07:28 PM

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Gravity is distortions created by mass in the fabric of our universe.. which to us will mean ''space''...


now.. that is a theory... a theory is one that matches our observations most.. science is never stagnant...

if someday someone found out another theory that says oh gravity is just tiny little aliens that we can't see trying to pull use together... if that model fits our observations.. so be it.. that's the new theory. hahaha


for now .. einstein's theory holds true...

the post about the bowling ball best explains gravity.




about newton's laws...

it is accurate if speed involved is much much lesss than speed of light.. so we can USE it.

in summary.. gravity exists in EVERY mass... you .. me... the computer ur sitting infrnt off.. the mosquito that just flew pass u... haha...

the difference is in it's MAGNITUDE.
SUSDeadlocks
post Jan 22 2012, 01:32 AM

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Gravity has a problem:

Sources:

http://profmattstrassler.com/articles-and-...rarchy-problem/
http://library.thinkquest.org/27930/forces.htm
http://www.cracked.com/article_19668_6-sci...ce-physics.html

QUOTE
There's a certain order to the world. Mice get eaten by wolves, motorcyclists get demolished by 18-wheelers and gravity presides over the whole crazy parade, keeping it stuck to the ground like a boss. Understanding where forces rank compared with one another allows us to predict and explain all the different ways in which they will interact. The problem is that gravity, the one force that's involved in just about every interaction that happens here on Earth, is kind of all over the map.

When you look at it up close, gravity is decidedly on the mouse side of the hierarchy. Rub a balloon on your wool sweater (nice sweater, nerd) and pass it over a piece of paper. The tiny electromagnetic charge your sweater transferred to the balloon will lift the paper off the table, overcoming the Earth's gravitational pull. That's the same gravitational pull that tethers the moon in orbit around Earth. Up close, gravity gets its ass handed to it by a bond that's about as strong as worn-out Velcro. But over a distance of 234,000 miles, it acts like the chain on a mace being swung around the head of a planet-sized Viking.

This is what's known as the Higgs mass hierarchy problem. Gravity has a tendency to wreak havoc on scientific hierarchies because the closer you look at it, the more likely it is to disappear. It's predictable when you take a step back and watch it yank things out of midair, but on closer inspection, it completely vanishes. In fact, at the realm of particle physics, gravity is 10 ^ 32 times weaker than the second weakest force.

The Earth's mass is 5.97 x 10 ^ 24 kilograms, which allows it to generate the supremely powerful and inescapable force that has held you on the surface of the Earth since you popped out of your mom. The fact that the stray electricity hanging out on your sweater could counteract it makes as much sense as a starving African child being able to bench-press a skyscraper.


This post has been edited by Deadlocks: Jan 22 2012, 01:34 AM
SUSslimey
post Jan 22 2012, 02:14 AM


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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Jan 22 2012, 01:32 AM)
yup.......the problem is with people assume they know a lot but in fact they don't know what they are talking about
Adryan
post Jan 22 2012, 02:35 AM

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Pardon me for my Physics (been along time since I last learnt it) but I think everything that has mass, has a gravitational pull.

Just some are stronger than others and that's why everything isn't floating because they are pulled to the earth.

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