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> How to declare the property as Bumi lot?!

kennen wong
post Sep 20 2011, 08:48 PM


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Dear all sifu,

I have a query on the bumi lot. How are we going to differentiate the bumi lot with non-bumi?!

What should it be for the following case

A) a property unit reserved by the developer for bumi
B) a property belong to a Chinese, but sell if off to Malay, then next buyer buy the property, does it consider bumi too?!

Pls Help me to clarify this, thanks ^^

Kennen
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kelvyn
post Sep 20 2011, 09:47 PM


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If the property was previously owned by a non-bumi and then sold to a bumi, It is still considered as NON- BUMI lot.
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kenny yew
post Sep 20 2011, 10:23 PM


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Some case is if the house owner are bumi then consider a bumi lot already ,but can sell to non bumi or not must depend on bumi quota..

But some lawyer said whatever case also can be transfer as long as not a bumi reserve lot .
How do urs think??
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clanzkiller
post Sep 20 2011, 10:24 PM


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QUOTE(kennen wong @ Sep 20 2011, 08:48 PM)
Dear all sifu,

I have a query on the bumi lot. How are we going to differentiate the bumi lot with non-bumi?!

What should it be for the following case

A) a property unit reserved by the developer for bumi
B) a property belong to a Chinese, but sell if off to Malay, then next buyer buy the property, does it consider bumi too?!

Pls Help me to clarify this, thanks ^^

Kennen
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A: true
B: false

Additional info for u. If those bumiputra who bought a property from developer which entitle for bumiputra discount, the unit is still a non bumi lot. No restriction on which floor/unit number.
However, If the unit is mainly reserved for bumi only, there is a particular floor/unit for then, and if they choose not to buy those reserved floor/unit and decided to choose other non bumi lot, therefore they will pay what a non bumi paid and no bumi discount.
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kennen wong
post Sep 20 2011, 10:48 PM


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So, which means if the buyer (Malay) not choose to take the advantage of bumi discount to buy the property, he can then sell the property off under non-bumi title, is that what u r trying to say.....

How can we really check on this by what the buyer (Malay) saying?!


Thanks for all sifus advice ^^
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kh8668
post Sep 20 2011, 11:33 PM


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I think the most important the BUMI words not to endorse on your title will do. LOL
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clanzkiller
post Sep 21 2011, 12:37 AM


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QUOTE(kennen wong @ Sep 20 2011, 10:48 PM)
So, which means if the buyer (Malay) not choose to take the advantage of bumi discount to buy the property, he can then sell the property off under non-bumi title, is that what u r trying to say.....

How can we really check on this by what the buyer (Malay) saying?!
Thanks for all sifus advice ^^
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Nonononono wrong...
You're gettin yourself confused lol. I'll make a simple example..

Developer ABC launch a project. Consist of lot 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9. And they reserved 6,7,8,9 as bumi reserve lot, which certainly selling lower than 1,2,3,4,5. Maybe calculated like 1-5 rm100,000. While 6-9 rm100,000 - 7% bumi = rm93,000.
- if a non bumi would like to buy the property, he/she can only buy lot 1-5.
- if a bumi would like to buy, he/she can choose from 1-9. But, if he/she choose 1-5, he/she wil pay rm100,000. If he/she choose 6-9, she pay rm93,000. And for lot 6-9, a special bumi stamped will be seen on the title once obtain.

Developer CDE launch project. Lot 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9. But there is no bumi reserved lot. Price at rm100,000.
- if non bumi buy, rm100,000 for lot 1-9.
- if bumi buy, and entitle for 5-10% discount for lot 1-9. Depends on which lot he/she choose. vary from developer. But, the unit won't have any special stamped stated it is bumi reserved lot.
- however, due to Malaysia law, there is some developer applied bumi quota instead of a fixed bumi reserved lot. Bumi quota of 10% we assumed. Total 9 units, so is 0.9 after 10% applied. We round it up to 1. So, by the end of the day, it is compulsory that 1 unit must be own by bumi. Assumed he/she is the last bumi vendor, and if unfortunately that the bumi vendor wanted to sell his/her lot even there is no special stamped or indication of bumi reserved, he/she couldn't sell to non bumi. Or he/she could just wait for a new bumi buyer to buy his/her unit, or other non-bumi unit then only he/she can sell peacefully. I think this only apply when the property is still under master title. I'm not sure whether if the individual/strata title has been obtain, the quota will still apply or not.
Correct me if I'm wrong. Learning in process smile.gif
Keyword here is ' bumi reserved lot' and 'bumi discount'.

This post has been edited by clanzkiller: Sep 21 2011, 12:44 AM
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yiwee
post Sep 21 2011, 12:49 AM


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Clanzkiller is correct. A bumi lot can either be a unit specifically allocated as such ie only for bumipitra purchasers or grouped under a bumi quota.
If it's bumi qouta and developer has sufficient units owned by bumiputra purchasers then developer need not include that unit under it's "bumi lot" quota. A check with the developer will reveal the information required.

It is true to say this merely applies to properties held under a master title. If individual or strata titles are issued, this allocation or reservation generally does not apply as the land offices do not have record s of which title is isn't bumi lots.

FYI this should not be confused with properties subject to restriction in interest in that consent of the state authorities must first be obtained prior to sale. This does not define the property as 'bumi lots', merely a restriction in the transference of the particular property. So a non bumi can purchase this sort of properties from a bumi owner, although inpractise it's rather difficult to get the approval. So I guess the effect is the same???


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leongal
post Sep 21 2011, 09:57 AM


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whether it is a bumi lot or not, it is only known to the owner and the developer
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Lord_Ashe
post Sep 21 2011, 10:01 AM


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Wow this is really an informative thread. I am only now facing the effects of not knowing my condo is a bumi lot...
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M2K2Land
post Sep 21 2011, 11:55 AM


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QUOTE(kh8668 @ Sep 20 2011, 11:33 PM)
I think the most important the BUMI words not to endorse on your title will do. LOL
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Just curious, is this stated in S&P or Master title or ? How to know weather the lot is BUMI or Non-Bumi?
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leongal
post Sep 21 2011, 12:29 PM


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QUOTE(M2K2Land @ Sep 21 2011, 11:55 AM)
Just curious, is this stated in S&P or Master title or ? How to know weather the lot is BUMI or Non-Bumi?
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you have to ask the developer; it is not stated in the title
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kh8668
post Sep 21 2011, 12:29 PM


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QUOTE(M2K2Land @ Sep 21 2011, 11:55 AM)
Just curious, is this stated in S&P or Master title or ? How to know weather the lot is BUMI or Non-Bumi?
*
normally it endorses into land title. However, I have still not yet seen the strata title got endorsement, but i think should have if the strata unit is bumi lot.

If the lawyer kind enough, it will stated in the SPA also. No? Lawyer can give feedback?
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Fazab
post Sep 21 2011, 12:42 PM


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Last time went with friend (she is bumi, buying house) was like this :

After signing S&P, developer ask her to also sign a letter saying that she is bumi and her unit will be registered as bumi lot.
Developer will then submit her letter (and also from other bumi buyers) to the Land Office, who will then mark these lots as bumi lots.
Developer does really pinpoint which lot is bumi lot before sales. After sold to bumi (got 7% discount) then only declare.
They also say they need 10% quota only. Once 10% of the lots have been sold to bumi, no more discount, everything else is non-bumi lot.

If she do not sign the letter, no discount, as her lot will then be non-bumi lot.

Status is not declare in the S&P. maybe title got later


Added on September 21, 2011, 12:43 pm
QUOTE(Fazab @ Sep 21 2011, 12:42 PM)
Last time went with friend (she is bumi, buying house) was like this :

After signing S&P, developer ask her to also sign a letter saying that she is bumi and her unit will be registered as bumi lot.
Developer will then submit her letter (and also from other bumi buyers) to the Land Office, who will then mark these lots as bumi lots.
Developer does really pinpoint which lot is bumi lot before sales. After sold to bumi (got 7% discount) then only declare.
They also say they need 10% quota only. Once 10% of the lots have been sold to bumi, no more discount, everything else is non-bumi lot.

If she do not sign the letter, no discount, as her lot will then be non-bumi lot.

Status is not declare in the S&P. maybe title got later
*
Oh, forgot. You can actually check the S&P, since the sales price quoted will now be 7% less.

Sorry, sorry.


Added on September 21, 2011, 12:45 pmSorry, only works if you know the original sale price.

(Just had heavy lunch, a bit slow in the brain)

This post has been edited by Fazab: Sep 21 2011, 12:45 PM
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Suicidal Guy
post Sep 21 2011, 01:16 PM


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MY CASE:

Bought subsale from bumi. The bumi bought from non-bumi (first owner non-bumi, second owner bumi). By right, this is non-bumi lot right? But tittle is still under master. When i buy, the strata title is out and advised by lawyer that need to transfer to individual (to the bumi) first before transferring to me. After transfer name to the bumi, land office said it is bumi lot. Have to go through few times appeal before getting consent to transfer to my name. I signed SnP last year Oct. Now still pending.

My humble advice: Better avoid buying from bumi even it is not bumi lot.
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clanzkiller
post Sep 21 2011, 04:32 PM


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QUOTE(kh8668 @ Sep 21 2011, 12:29 PM)
normally it endorses into land title. However, I have still not yet seen the strata title got endorsement, but i think should have if the strata unit is bumi lot.

If the lawyer kind enough, it will stated in the SPA also. No? Lawyer can give feedback?
*
If you bought from developer, the SPA couldn't be amend due to the reason they have to follow the standard HDA.
However for subsale, i'm not quite sure, need someone experience to enlighten this. sorry.

QUOTE(Fazab @ Sep 21 2011, 12:42 PM)
Last time went with friend (she is bumi, buying house) was like this :

After signing S&P, developer ask her to also sign a letter saying that she is bumi and her unit will be registered as bumi lot.
Developer will then submit her letter (and also from other bumi buyers) to the Land Office, who will then mark these lots as bumi lots.
Developer does really pinpoint which lot is bumi lot before sales. After sold to bumi (got 7% discount) then only declare.
They also say they need 10% quota only. Once 10% of the lots have been sold to bumi, no more discount, everything else is non-bumi lot.

If she do not sign the letter, no discount, as her lot will then be non-bumi lot.

Status is not declare in the S&P. maybe title got later


Added on September 21, 2011, 12:43 pm
Oh, forgot. You can actually check the S&P, since the sales price quoted will now be 7% less.

Sorry, sorry.


Added on September 21, 2011, 12:45 pmSorry, only works if you know the original sale price.

(Just had heavy lunch, a bit slow in the brain)
*
Yes that is the way, for a bumi buyer who purchased property through developer, they will need to sign a letter indicate that they got the bumi discount and the purchased price will be lower. But the percentage is not fix, it could be 5-10%. This only apply if it is a bumi quota situation.

However, if a reserved bumi lot, and the bumi purchaser purchased a bumi-lot, then is a fix 7% discount. But if the bumi purhaser bought those non-bumi lot, the purchaser will not get any discount at all.

This can be distinguish as if you look at the brochure of the developer, most of it printed on the bottom of last page. It will stated information such as license, advertising license, land status, price, size, etc etc. Information only available once they got their Advertising Permit, which meant OFFICIAL launch. While those pre-register or soft launch or private preview, some written but mostly are not.
If you see something like *5/6/7/8/9/10% discount to bumiputra, then it falls under bumi quota.

However, if for Bumi Reserved Lot, normally they will listed somewhere in between their brochure, something like *Bumi Lot Available. And the discount % is fixed at 7% if not mistaken.

I believed, that nowadays most of the condo/apart/multi-level office/soho developer are using bumi quota as it has no restriction to bumi buyer, bumi purchaser can choose any unit number they like and just apply a discount fixed by the developer when purchasing. For landed property, i believed they still practicing bumi reserved lot.

This post has been edited by clanzkiller: Sep 21 2011, 04:40 PM
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kennen wong
post Sep 22 2011, 12:13 AM


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Thanks all Sifus for your detailed explanation, very helpful to me, give me a cleared picture on this bumi lot. Thanks guys ^^


Suicidal guy, for your case, if we really want to buy from the second owner (Bumi),
do u think we can get the title to have a lawyer to check if it is transferable b4 confimation of the order, would this be more safe?!

Thanks!
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clanzkiller
post Sep 22 2011, 02:05 AM


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QUOTE(Suicidal Guy @ Sep 21 2011, 01:16 PM)
MY CASE:

Bought subsale from bumi. The bumi bought from non-bumi (first owner non-bumi, second owner bumi). By right, this is non-bumi lot right? yes as it is not a bumi reserved lot, but may fall under bumi quota of that particular property

But tittle is still under master. When i buy, the strata title is out and advised by lawyer that need to transfer to individual (to the bumi) first before transferring to me. when the day you placed your deposit, and engaged lawyer to draft spa and doa, was the title already issued, or still in process, or just going to apply with no payment made yet?
1.If already issued, then it falls under bumi quota thus you have to try luck hoping the quota of that entire property is more than 10%, if equivalent, then time consuming wil be alot.
2. If stil in process, then you can ask your lawyer to do some work with the dev to do a direct transfer to your name. And so, it will be like you bought from developer instead of other individual party.
3.If just going to apply, then even easy, enquire to do a direct transfer also like no.2.
But bare in mind that no.2 and no.3 may required more money to do so.


After transfer name to the bumi, land office said it is bumi lot. Have to go through few times appeal before getting consent to transfer to my name. I signed SnP last year Oct. Now still pending.
replied above no.1.. Time consuming. If I'm not mistaken, they are actually waiting a bumi buyer to purchase other non bumi unit so it will make the qouta back to 10%.

My humble advice: Better avoid buying from bumi even it is not bumi lot.
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juststayreal
post Sep 22 2011, 03:37 AM


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QUOTE(kelvyn @ Sep 20 2011, 09:47 PM)
If the property was previously owned by a non-bumi and then sold to a bumi, It is still considered as NON- BUMI lot.
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you'r wrong
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UFO-ET
post Sep 22 2011, 05:47 AM


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QUOTE(juststayreal @ Sep 22 2011, 03:37 AM)
you'r wrong
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My understanding

Bumi-Lot (Freehold/Leasehold)
1st owner - Bumi
2nd owner - must be Bumi

_________________________________________

Non-Bumi Lot (Freehold)
1st owner - Bumi
2nd owner - can be Bumi or non-bumi
3rd owner - can be Bumi or non-bumi

or

Non-Bumi Lot (Freehold)
1st owner - non-Bumi
2nd owner - if sell Bumi
3nd owner - can be Bumi or non-bumi

_________________________________________

Non-Bumi Lot (Leasehold)
1st owner - Bumi
2nd owner - must be Bumi

or

Non-Bumi Lot (Leasehold)
1st owner - non-Bumi
2nd owner - if sell Bumi
3nd owner - must be Bumi

This post has been edited by UFO-ET: Sep 22 2011, 05:48 AM
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clanzkiller
post Sep 22 2011, 04:14 PM


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QUOTE(UFO-ET @ Sep 22 2011, 05:47 AM)
My understanding

Bumi-Lot (Freehold/Leasehold)
1st owner - Bumi
2nd owner - must be Bumi

_________________________________________

Non-Bumi Lot (Freehold)
1st owner - Bumi
2nd owner - can be Bumi or non-bumi
3rd owner - can be Bumi or non-bumi

or

Non-Bumi Lot (Freehold)
1st owner - non-Bumi
2nd owner - if sell Bumi
3nd owner - can be Bumi or non-bumi

_________________________________________

Non-Bumi Lot (Leasehold)
1st owner - Bumi
2nd owner - must be Bumi

or

Non-Bumi Lot (Leasehold)
1st owner - non-Bumi
2nd owner - if sell Bumi
3nd owner - must be Bumi
*
Lol bro, not must la...stil can one...what u need is time & money only. Malaysia boleh maaa smile.gif
Unless is a Bumi Reserved Lot, whereby still can transfer to non-bumi, but chances very very very low only.
If the house really cheap + nice + worth + feel, then the one last option, use company name to purchase smile.gif.


Added on September 22, 2011, 4:19 pmHere you go folks..

http://ritzlyn.blogspot.com/2008/11/bumi-l...bumi-quota.html


Added on September 22, 2011, 4:24 pmAnother good one,

http://www.propertywtf.com.my/post4635.html

This post has been edited by clanzkiller: Sep 22 2011, 04:24 PM
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Suicidal Guy
post Sep 22 2011, 05:02 PM


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QUOTE(kennen wong @ Sep 22 2011, 12:13 AM)
Thanks all Sifus for your detailed explanation, very helpful to me, give me a cleared picture on this bumi lot. Thanks guys ^^
Suicidal guy, for your case, if we really want to buy from the second owner (Bumi),
do u think we can get the title to have a lawyer to check if it is transferable b4 confimation of the order, would this be more safe?!

Thanks!
*
For my case, the lawyer already check with developer that the unit is indeed non-bumi and got a letter from developer stating that transfer of name is not a problem. But when it goes to land office, the story changed.

Better don't buy from bumi. Anything might happen..
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UFO-ET
post Sep 22 2011, 05:15 PM


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QUOTE(clanzkiller @ Sep 22 2011, 04:14 PM)
Lol bro, not must la...stil can one...what u need is time & money only. Malaysia boleh maaa smile.gif
Unless is a Bumi Reserved Lot, whereby still can transfer to non-bumi, but chances very very very low only.
If the house really cheap + nice + worth + feel, then the one last option, use company name to purchase smile.gif.


Added on September 22, 2011, 4:19 pmHere you go folks..

http://ritzlyn.blogspot.com/2008/11/bumi-l...bumi-quota.html


Added on September 22, 2011, 4:24 pmAnother good one,

http://www.propertywtf.com.my/post4635.html
*
When we give advice, we kenot advise the back door way.

I know some lawyers do help bumi-lot owners transfer to non-bumi. It can be done, appeal, appeal, $$ kau tim
I experienced that before, not all the time success too. cool2.gif
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clanzkiller
post Sep 22 2011, 05:19 PM


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hhahaha yeah you're right!

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juststayreal
post Sep 29 2011, 06:49 AM


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QUOTE(UFO-ET @ Sep 22 2011, 05:47 AM)
My understanding

Bumi-Lot (Freehold/Leasehold)
1st owner - Bumi
2nd owner - must be Bumi

_________________________________________

Non-Bumi Lot (Freehold)
1st owner - Bumi
2nd owner - can be Bumi or non-bumi
3rd owner - can be Bumi or non-bumi

or

Non-Bumi Lot (Freehold)
1st owner - non-Bumi
2nd owner - if sell Bumi
3nd owner - can be Bumi or non-bumi

_________________________________________

Non-Bumi Lot (Leasehold)
1st owner - Bumi
2nd owner - must be Bumi

or

Non-Bumi Lot (Leasehold)
1st owner - non-Bumi
2nd owner - if sell Bumi
3nd owner - must be Bumi
*
In fact, there is no need to make things complicated by differentiate leasehold and freehold because our "Great" government won't lease his land to you,coz had reserved to his cronies. so we only talk about freehold land here. assume that you want to buy a freehold, you must check which state your land based at, because Malay majority state use land rule that benefit their own people, there is a specific term but I forgot what its called, the term will impliedly (even no need to express out) applied to the signed document regarding transaction of land between you and another, then if you(if you're a chinese or indian) sell your land to a Malay, the term will automatically obligate the new owner to sell only to Malay and not other race anymore in the future.

And the state I mention including Terengganu, Kelantan, Kedah, Pahang and some more.
I knew because one of my relative is landlord himself and he teach me about this.
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