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TSbraindeath
post Sep 4 2011, 09:17 PM, updated 10y ago

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do any of you really know how did israel 1st began to occupy palestine?

google it and stuff but dont really understand it
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mezzi-quan
post Sep 4 2011, 09:23 PM

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the jews escaped the holoucast in europe, then landed on palestine........then they settled in palestine n created israel
n00b13
post Sep 4 2011, 09:34 PM

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Not really hard to understand. From what I know, it goes like this:

1) When WW2 ended, the full extent of the Holocaust was revealed - 6 million Jews murdered.
2) The Zionist movement started which basically says: "Us Jews must have our own country! That's the only way to prevent something like the Holocaust from happening again."
3) The rest of the world felt really bad for the Jews. Everyone starts nudging each other saying "dei, help them lar."
4) The British decide to give the Zionists some land to form their own country. They had colonized Palestine at the time, so they said "guise, you want onnot?" And since Palestine was the holy land to the Jews, of course they said "DO WANT."
5) Except that there were already Palestinians there who were not happy to be colonized by the British, and they were lagi not happy that suddenly the Jews came and set up their own country there.
6) So the Palestinians were like "OI KENOT LIDDAT THIS IS OUR HOME"
7) And the Jews were like "NO THIS IS ISRAEL NOW YOU TAK SUKA YOU KELUAR"
8) And the British were like "gtg kthxbai"


kmrdeva
post Sep 4 2011, 09:46 PM

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QUOTE(n00b13 @ Sep 4 2011, 09:34 PM)
Not really hard to understand. From what I know, it goes like this:

1) When WW2 ended, the full extent of the Holocaust was revealed - 6 million Jews murdered.
2) The Zionist movement started which basically says: "Us Jews must have our own country! That's the only way to prevent something like the Holocaust from happening again."
3) The rest of the world felt really bad for the Jews. Everyone starts nudging each other saying "dei, help them lar."
4) The British decide to give the Zionists some land to form their own country. They had colonized Palestine at the time, so they said "guise, you want onnot?" And since Palestine was the holy land to the Jews, of course they said "DO WANT."
5) Except that there were already Palestinians there who were not happy to be colonized by the British, and they were lagi not happy that suddenly the Jews came and set up their own country there.
6) So the Palestinians were like "OI KENOT LIDDAT THIS IS OUR HOME"
7) And the Jews were like "NO THIS IS ISRAEL NOW YOU TAK SUKA YOU KELUAR"
8) And the British were like "gtg kthxbai"
*
Nicely summarised and very accurate too, I think. biggrin.gif

Except for one thing, there was no such thing as a Palestine country when the Jew fellas came up with the Israel proposal.
n00b13
post Sep 4 2011, 09:54 PM

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QUOTE(kmrdeva @ Sep 4 2011, 09:46 PM)
Nicely summarised and very accurate too, I think. biggrin.gif

Except for one thing, there was no such thing as a Palestine country when the Jew fellas came up with the Israel proposal.
I'm just waiting for someone to dispute point no. 1. biggrin.gif
dkk
post Sep 4 2011, 11:15 PM

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QUOTE(kmrdeva @ Sep 4 2011, 09:46 PM)
Nicely summarised and very accurate too, I think. biggrin.gif

Except for one thing, there was no such thing as a Palestine country when the Jew fellas came up with the Israel proposal.
So very right you are. But there were people there already in 1920-1945. Now they are called Palestinians and self identify as such. That Palestine did or did not exist as a political entity in 1945 is besides the point. Todays' Palestinians did not just spontaneously appear out of nowhere. They need somewhere to live.

The biggest problem I find with Israel is they wanted the land, but not the people there.

BTW: I'm in favour of the one state solution.
ALeUNe
post Sep 4 2011, 11:17 PM

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QUOTE(braindeath @ Sep 4 2011, 09:17 PM)
do any of you really know how did israel 1st began to occupy palestine?

google it and stuff but dont really understand it
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Jews live there since thousand years ago.
dkk
post Sep 4 2011, 11:27 PM

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QUOTE(n00b13 @ Sep 4 2011, 09:34 PM)
4) The British decide to give the Zionists some land to form their own country. They had colonized Palestine at the time, so they said "guise, you want onnot?" And since Palestine was the holy land to the Jews, of course they said "DO WANT."
5) Except that there were already Palestinians there who were not happy to be colonized by the British, and they were lagi not happy that suddenly the Jews came and set up their own country there.
6) So the Palestinians were like "OI KENOT LIDDAT THIS IS OUR HOME"
7) And the Jews were like "NO THIS IS ISRAEL NOW YOU TAK SUKA YOU KELUAR"
8) And the British were like "gtg kthxbai"
I think the British did deserve a bit of credit for resisting the zionists who were the terrorists pre-1945. Not too much. They could have done a better job. But for (4) it's more of the Zionists taking, rather than the British giving it to them.


Added on September 4, 2011, 11:29 pm
QUOTE(ALeUNe @ Sep 4 2011, 11:17 PM)
Jews live there since thousand years ago.
A thousand years ago, there was a Christian state there, with Jerusalem as it's capital.

This post has been edited by dkk: Sep 4 2011, 11:29 PM
kmrdeva
post Sep 4 2011, 11:45 PM

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QUOTE(dkk @ Sep 4 2011, 11:15 PM)
The biggest problem I find with Israel is they wanted the land, but not the people there.

BTW: I'm in favour of the one state solution.
*
Israel has a fairly large arab population who seem to be fine being Israeli citizens.

The Palestinian thing is a political issue mired with centuries of ethnic, religious hatred mixed with greed for power.

KatiePelly
post Sep 4 2011, 11:48 PM

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QUOTE(ALeUNe @ Sep 4 2011, 11:17 PM)
Jews live there since thousand years ago.
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Yeah, the arguments for this conflict goes way back. I think Jews are claiming that the palestinian land actually belonged to jews eons ago, and palestinians are the pendatangs.
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post Sep 4 2011, 11:54 PM

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And millions of years ago dinasaurs rome the lands. Its always hard to determine who "came first". Don't have to look far, just look at our own country.
dkk
post Sep 4 2011, 11:55 PM

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QUOTE(kmrdeva @ Sep 4 2011, 11:45 PM)
Israel has a fairly large arab population who seem to be fine being Israeli citizens.

The Palestinian thing is a political issue mired with centuries of ethnic, religious hatred mixed with greed for power.
Israel should just annex the West Bank and give citizenship to the entire population there.

Gaza too. Or else Egypt should take it back. Or it becomes an independent country. As it is now, it's just one big giant prison. Is Israel just trying to make more pepole who hate them?
kmrdeva
post Sep 5 2011, 12:04 AM

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QUOTE(dkk @ Sep 4 2011, 11:55 PM)
Israel should just annex the West Bank and give citizenship to the entire population there.

Gaza too. Or else Egypt should take it back. Or it becomes an independent country. As it is now, it's just one big giant prison. Is Israel just trying to make more pepole who hate them?
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Haters will hate no matter what Israel does.

IMHO, the neighbouring Arab nations are not interested in any solution that involves an expansion of Israel's borders or the creation of an actual independent nation of Palestine.
n00b13
post Sep 5 2011, 12:09 AM

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QUOTE(dkk @ Sep 4 2011, 11:27 PM)
I think the British did deserve a bit of credit for resisting the zionists who were the terrorists pre-1945.
hmm.gif That's a very biased view of the events. There was civil strife at that time, but you definitely can't blame it all on the Jews.


Added on September 5, 2011, 12:11 am
QUOTE(kmrdeva @ Sep 5 2011, 12:04 AM)
Haters will hate no matter what Israel does.
And no matter what the rest of the world does, Israel will say "f*** you guys, we survived the Holocaust, we won't let anybody mess with us again."

And as long as they maintain this attitude, there will never be peace there. sad.gif

This post has been edited by n00b13: Sep 5 2011, 12:11 AM
murzark
post Sep 5 2011, 12:18 AM

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I have a feeling Israel wouldn't act like giant pricks if they knew they couldn't snap their fingers and have the USA cut them a check or send them some killer weapons tech.

Of course one thing you have to give them credit for is their skills in propaganda. I mean nobody in power dares say shit about Israel for fear of being labeled a Nazi loving antisemitic. Doesn't matter if their policies make things ever worse, or what they do to the Arabs(Palestinians), you say a word you'll be called antisemitic before you even set the mike down. Gotta give them credit where credit is due, and they are damned good at playing that card.
bellion
post Sep 5 2011, 12:28 AM

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QUOTE(murzark @ Sep 5 2011, 12:18 AM)
I have a feeling Israel wouldn't act like giant pricks if they knew they couldn't snap their fingers and have the USA cut them a check or send them some killer weapons tech.

Of course one thing you have to give them credit for is their skills in propaganda. I mean nobody in power dares say shit about Israel for fear of being labeled a Nazi loving antisemitic. Doesn't matter if their policies make things ever worse, or what they do to the Arabs(Palestinians), you say a word you'll be called antisemitic before you even set the mike down. Gotta give them credit where credit is due, and they are damned good at playing that card.
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There's plenty being said and done towards Israel and anti-semitism is the least of their concerns.

You are barking up the wrong tree.
dkk
post Sep 5 2011, 12:42 AM

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QUOTE(n00b13 @ Sep 5 2011, 12:09 AM)
hmm.gif  That's a very biased view of the events. There was
The *WERE* the terrorists. The point is not to put the blame solely on the zionists.

After Israel was set up, they quit being terrorists. The were incorporated into the IDF. Some become politicians.

A while later, we had Palestinian terrorists. Many were absorbed into the PA. But the Palestinian state did not form completely. It's stuck in limbo, like a baby that's born only halfway.

If there was a real Palestinian state today, there would be no Hamas. They would be in the army of Palestine. Hesbollah exists because there is no strong government in Lebanon.


ALeUNe
post Sep 5 2011, 12:45 AM

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QUOTE(KatiePelly @ Sep 4 2011, 11:48 PM)
Yeah, the arguments for this conflict goes way back.  I think Jews are claiming that the palestinian land actually belonged to jews eons ago, and palestinians are the pendatangs.
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In fact no, Palestinians have been living there for thousand of years as well.
Both Palestinians and Jews could be co-existed.

However, the arab boys chose to have gang-bang wars.
Many thanks to their religion too. It is justifiable to whack the jews according to the religion.

So, the high-rank arabs made the decision. The religion justified it. Palestinians pay the price. It is the aftermath we see now.


Added on September 5, 2011, 12:47 am
QUOTE(n00b13 @ Sep 5 2011, 12:09 AM)
And no matter what the rest of the world does, Israel will say "f*** you guys, we survived the Holocaust, we won't let anybody mess with us again."

And as long as they maintain this attitude, there will never be peace there.  sad.gif
*
After so many gang-bang wars, it is really difficult to convince them to put down their guns.
If you are in the shoes of Jews, would you still believe in the Arabs? Will you believe Arabs will not blast your siblings into pieces?


Added on September 5, 2011, 12:48 am
QUOTE(dkk @ Sep 5 2011, 12:42 AM)
If there was a real Palestinian state today, there would be no Hamas. They would be in the army of Palestine. Hesbollah exists because there is no strong government in Lebanon.
*
They had the chance to set up the Palestinian state years ago. That was before the gang-bang wars.

This post has been edited by ALeUNe: Sep 5 2011, 01:04 AM
dkk
post Sep 5 2011, 12:50 AM

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QUOTE(n00b13 @ Sep 5 2011, 12:09 AM)
And no matter what the rest of the world does, Israel will say "f*** you guys, we survived the Holocaust, we won't let anybody mess with us again."

And as long as they maintain this attitude, there will never be peace there.  sad.gif
That assumes Israel will always win. There is another possible end-scenario. The day may come when Israel is weaker, and the surrounding Arab states are stronger.

ALeUNe
post Sep 5 2011, 12:54 AM

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QUOTE(dkk @ Sep 5 2011, 12:50 AM)
That assumes Israel will always win. There is another possible end-scenario. The day may come when Israel is weaker, and the surrounding Arab states are stronger.
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We'll have a nuclear war then, I suppose.
US have hundreds of nuclear war head planted across Europe (including Mediterranean areas).


This post has been edited by ALeUNe: Sep 5 2011, 01:03 AM

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