I personally do not believe in gloating even if you beat someone. Like I said in a previous post, the only thing worse than a bad loser is a bad winner. Do Liverpool fans also gloat? Yes but it doesn't mean I agree with them. i don't think anyone would disagree when I say I've never ever posted claiming that we are the best. Even when I big up Liverpool fans, it's those whose stories I read about who I admire. I don't claim to be the best because I know I'm not the best.

Before you continue to go thinking I'm being biased do note that in the past I've chastised our own fans for claiming to be "the best fans in the world", I've criticised our own for nonsensical one-liners and I keep telling everyone to refrain from gloating about a win over a rival on their thread. I'm sure I'm not well liked by everyone in our own thread either but the thing is, I don't care. I call it like I see it and if they can't handle it, that's their problem, not mine.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Sep 10 2011, 12:19 PM

He isn't trolling. At least he's articulating his thoughts. Nothing wrong with a little banter/discussion. We talk about not being welcomed on other threads so let's be more hospitable shall we?

In truth, they probably will. The fact that they fielded a team whose average age was 23, and they beat a "top four side" proves that they will be a dominant force for years to come unfortunately. However, this just means that we have to be better and we're heading in the right direction off and on the field.

Stoke have a huge but less than mobile backline. Fielding Carroll would only play into their hands. We should start with Suarez on his own upfront and hope his wizadry on the ball and quick turns will cause discomfort to Stoke's massive backline.

Darn OT but is anyone else watching the Rugby World Cup? Japan came so close to tying the French. Some of those Jap guys are huge. Makes me wonder why our Malaysian lads are still so tiny. Reckon it's to do with the diet. Raw fish is high in protein whilst Nasi Lemak is high in calories and devoid of any nutrition.

Can't say we're playing too poorly but some of the passing from Lucas and Henderson has been pretty dodgy. We're trying to play the ball over Stoke's towering defence which is always tricky if they are playing deep close to the keeper. I reckon that unless things improve in the second half, we'll see the introduction of Bellamy possibly in place of Henderson with Kuyt moving to the right.

The thing I have to say about Carra is that you can hardly peel him off the field. The famous story of him not wanting to leave the field with a broken leg because he didn't want to let the team down is true. Even today, he couldn't bring himself to leave the pitch even for a moment. He was still barking instructions asking for Skrtel to swap places with Lucas as the Brazilian had initially slotted in at centreback as Carra left for treatment.

We did just about everything but score. 20 shots on goal, 70+% of possession, it just wasn't our day. Stoke defended stoutly with the likes of Upson and Shawcross throwing themselves in front of the ball each time we took aim. Henderson could have done better when he found himself one-on-one with Begovic but instead of lobbing the Stoke captain, he opted to pass the ball to him twice. Also Suarez missed an open goal. Still, I take heart in a dominant display away from home against a tough side to beat at home. I thought the handball from Upson was pretty obvious though especially since the referees assistant was well placed to spot it.

Precisely, you don't just throw all your new signings in just because you've read rave reviews about them. Coates has no experience playing in the Premiership and he has probably never heard of Peter Crouch who he would have marked had he started in place of Carra. Always helps to have your defenders learn about the players they have to mark first. Do they have a tendency to go right or left? Do they like to blast it or place it? etc.

Like you I am disappointed but I doubt we'd have fared any better had Carroll started. I actually don't think we got it wrong playing Suarez and Kuyt from the start. Stoke effectively played with 4 centrebacks and against lumbering defenders, you want nippy players who are a little more mobile. We did play high balls but it wasn't for Kuyt or Suarez to attack. I believe the intention was to play the ball over and behind the back four for Kuyt and Suarez to chase down. It's just that when the back four sits deep, there is very little space between them and the keeper. The reason I believe people see this as a failed tactic is simply because we didn't convert our chances. Had we done so, no one would be complaining. It isn't easy playing against a team that plays so deep because space is at a premium.

All in all, I actually think we played a decent game of football.

I do think Henderson has not justified his price tag yet but it's just 4 games into the season and it's too soon to label anyone a flop. Bellamy was a free signing so we didn't spend money. What did he do wrong anyway? He was stuck out on the wing.

Aside from that one mistake, what else did he do wrong in the game? I think Carra deserves more respect than that even if he is getting on a little. He gives nothing less than his best and if we are to blame him for giving a goal away, we could just as easily blame Henderson or Suarez for not converting good opportunities. It's just like how people blame goalkeepers for making a single mistake, not remembering the number of saves they made prior to that, but celebrate one goal from a striker despite him probably having missed 10 chances before that.

Bah ignore them. What matters is that you hold your head high even in defeat. Also, be careful. Read that mamaks are getting hit by thieves recently

Poor guy was only brought on for the last 20 minutes. His asset is pace but by that time, Stoke already had 10 men behind the ball trying not to concede so Bellamy had no space to run into. Also, being stuck on the left wing couldn't have been to his liking.

If you prove you're good enough, you deserve a start, end off. Even the likes of Stevie will have to earn his place in the team. Maybe it's because he epitomises a Liverpool type player to me but I have heaps of respect for our Carra. Fair play if he's getting on a bit but I am somewhat disturbed that some of you talk about discarding him like he's just another name. Heaven forbid that King Kenny should receive the same treatment should we go through a bad patch.

I myself am critical of certain players. I was of Carra long ago when he played in midfield and rightback but Rafa saw what a lot of people didn't, that he would make a good centreback. He has never been known for his passing ability, anyone who has watched him through his entire career like me would know that. When he played defensive midfield for England, opponents would stand off him knowing that passing isn't one of his strengths. Carra has always been known to be a safety first defender. He isn't the most gifted on the ball and he doesn't pretend to be. Wouldn't want him to do a Djimi Traore in front of goal would we? My point is we all already know what he's like. It isn't like he lost the ability to pass over night. He is still very much the same player who put his body on the line to protect our goal in Istanbul. He is still the same player who doesn't go down unless he's really hurt. He is still a fierce and determined competitor. However, he is getting older but this leads me to my next point.

In my opinion, certain players or managers have done so much, they are beyond criticism. If we go through a bad run, will it be fair to criticise King Kenny after all he's done for the club? He is a legend, an immortal and in my books, Carra is a legend as well. I'm sure that he has the grace to step aside when he realises that his presence in the team does more harm than good, such is his love for the club. Yes he makes errors just like any other defender and if he's to be dropped, so be it but let's treat him with the respect he deserves.

Let's put a little perspective on the situation. Like i said earlier, I do admit that Carra is getting on but the way people are talking about him, it's like he's just another player. Have you seen some of the blame that's been placed on him? He's an easy target. What about those who missed guilt edged opportunities to score? Suarez is the flavour of the month and rightly so but he's just as guilty for missing an open opportunity.

Carra has turned 33 and speed was never his main attribute. It's one reason he was moved from rightback to centreback because whenever he played on the right, he wasn't going to be too adventurous knowing very well that he didn't have the pace to track back had we lost possession when he was caught upfield. Sami Hyypia left us at 35 and he never had any pace. He made up for it by reading the game very well. Each year fans would talk about how slow he was but he never was quick to begin with. I don't know if anyone criticised him then but he left a legend and Carra deserves the same if not more. We can continue to focus on his mistake yesterday or look to the times he covered his fellow defenders by running across to make a lunging tackle in games before.

In the end, my biasness towards Carra is very much sentimental and as Liverpool fans, a big reason for supporting the club is based on sentiment. Players have come and gone but Carra has remained. It's the reason I only have his name on my jerseys.

If he's off colour, King Kenny will drop him and rightly so but I reiterate, let's not talk about him as though we don't owe him any gratitude.

In your opinion then, what was wrong with how we played last night? Yes some of our passing went awry but we still created enough chances to have taken the game had we been more clinical in the final third of the pitch. Forget the missed attempts from Suarez and Henderson. How many times did desperate defending from the likes of Shawcross, Upson and Huth foil us? They were throwing themselves in front of the ball when we took aim at goal. The fans were singing Huth's name and Shawcross was named MOM. What does this tell you? I'm no genius but if you couple this with the fact that we dominated possession and had way more shots on goal, it tells me Stoke defended well.

Did King Kenny promise the title this season? Here's where I feel fans delude themselves into thinking the team will challenge each season just because of a couple of new signings. King Kenny hasn't even been in charge for a full season yet. This season has just begun and suddenly some people forget how he salvaged a miserable season for us last term with a string of good results.

Yes we aren't winning all our games but it isn't like we didn't create the chances to have done so. What matters now isn't that we win every game as good as that would be, but that we continue to play well and create chances which we have bar the Sunderland game.

One bad result and it's doom and gloom all over again. Are you telling me you don't see any positives? Young players coming through the ranks. Healthy financial standing. New stadium looming. Expansion into Asian markets. John Henry has said that it will take years to build a successful side and he isn't going for the instant success formula. He's invested in us for the long term. Fans should look to the long term and not put words into the gaffers mouth by claiming we should be going for the title. It's a bonus, not an obligation.

Here's proof that you can be tuned into the same channel but watching a totally different game. When Bellamy and Carroll came on, Stoke were already defending their lead, hence they played deeper, pressed less and invited us on to them. It's football 101 and many teams do this late in the game when they are winning. Therefore it gives you the impression that we pressing them back by playing awesome football.

Precisely. I'm wondering where some people got the impression that we were going for the title this season. Suddenly all of what John Henry said about building a winning team for the long term has been forgotten. If you ask me if I would rather he just spend aimlessly and buy us success, I'd give you an emphatic "no!". I like what Fenway group are doing. We've signed a much more lucrative deal with Standard Chartered and have secured a massive deal with Warrior as kit sponsors. Things are finally moving forward. I just wish that people would look at the bigger picture and have a better understanding of what's going on in the club. For that to happen however, one needs to read even if this stuff seems boring.

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Added on September 11, 2011, 4:06 pmHope you had a good Raya bro. We need to meet up for a game again soon

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Sep 11 2011, 04:06 PM

It's like what I said earlier though, Carra has always hoofed the ball. If he doesn't have the room, he'll hit it out to the side into row Z. You won't find him trying to side step attacking players attempting to put pressure in him. Also, why only single him out? What not pick on the attacking players for missing opportunities as well? It's because he made one error and like keepers, one error is all that's needed for you to be crucified. Suarez can miss 10 opportunities, score a belter and no one would remember the sitters he's missed.

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Added on September 11, 2011, 5:22 pmOf course.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Sep 11 2011, 05:22 PM

Nothing wrong with him being replaced if we have a better option. Knowing Carra (though not personally), he'd be willing to be benched for the betterment of the team. I don't disagree that it gets frustrating when he hoofs the ball but he is limited, we all know that. I don't however agree that he is solely to blame for our defeat last night as some have quite eloquently pointed out.

Ranting and raving eh? Well whatever it takes to sell more copies right? What is more frustrating is people usually only read the headlines without going through the content.

Here's what he said,



How is this a rant? If anything, it's the opposite. He isn't b****in or whining. He's making it clear in no uncertain terms that he will do all that's necessary to protect the interest of the club, by going through proper channels instead of making a public outburst. He did not focus on a particular incident neither did he mention a particular official.