Hey bro, "nearly" everything goes up overall with lar, it's called inflation

Hhehe - okok on a more serious note, one may not be too gung ho if one bought pre 1999, stressed or gave up until 2003 gua
Those that slept on it then good lar


This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Sep 2 2011, 03:17 PM

"similar" lar bro - chased high then plonked down... heheh

And the chase continues
Control... control.. (ie. my backside itchy also for gold but as a value buyer kinda fler, cannot scratch lar..)

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Sep 2 2011, 04:19 PM

i chicken shit lar <cluck> <cluck>
visions of feathers all over the floor when (not IF) i get hit

bwhahaha - U need the superdecoder chicken shit ring bro.
In YingWen - it's too dangerous for ME now to get into gold. Maybe a peck or two but certainly not the whole 2 chicken feet

yeah, either the end of the world fighting begins here and/or gold prices worldwide falls (due to sudden glut of above ground gold)?

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Sep 5 2011, 10:23 PM

True true - small drops no feel. However, U sure about the $200-$300 increment in a year? Long term and will never fall like end 1980s to 2002?

True - 2004 is "so old liao" + 2009-2010 spike.

Ever heard of "the more things change, the more things stays the same" + "this time it's different" which is usually followed by "oh oh.. crap"?
Look at gold's spike in 1980s and the subsequent fall and flatline until about 2001-2002. Yeah - different circumstances but prices usually move based on greed/fear right?

History is history to be long forgotten... until it happens again.. and again.. and again.. This time it's different! Which may be right but er.. statistically, i wouldnt bet on it

Just a thought.

BTW, comparing gold to FD is akin to comparing jets and scooters . One's speculative for trading on price/volume movements Vs another is lending $ to the bank "safely" (depending on what safely means to one lar).

And since U posted 5.37% is better than FD, what about bonds and bond funds (averaging 5% to 6%pa compounded)? heheh - okok, i'm being a donkey comparing apples vs bhut jolokias

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Sep 8 2011, 10:33 AM

bro, U should encourage these fellows lar since U bought at nearly all time low, since they're not statistically inclined and think gold's the greatest
Let them chase it higher (and U know what to do lar )
In trading, it's a negative (including brokerage/middle-men costs) sum game, gotta have a someone holding the last bag mar

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Sep 8 2011, 10:32 AM

Yup yup - as long as one has entry & exits planned ahead, it should be good in terms of risk/reward management.
Mind U, most "players" has NO exit plans. Hold until.... eventually one will want to convert one's gold (a portion) to other asset classes for balance right? or one will hold till kingdom comes? May not be U but generally some folks.

Definitely future cannot be predicted.
However if one chases up something that is already in near historical high (either based on inflated or non-inflated gold prices), the statistical risks are more than the rewards as bro Prophetjul stated. He's good hearted and just wanted to share some basis in order to view things from a risk management point of view. In fact, he has all to gain if people keep going gung-ho

Fear and greed
Fear of missing the boat (greed in reality) Vs fear of losing $ - this IMHO is the main driver for gold.
Gold cant be "used" (ie. softest metal) by tom, d*** & harry easily, cant be eaten, cant be planted and grown, cant be used as a physical shelter, needs to be protected from theft, can be "confiscated" or forced sell by Government, etc. Gold's value is based on perception and/or scarcity.
Personally, I'd buy more gold too but based on cheap sale coz i'm looking from the similar point-of-view of bro Prophetjul (probability of gain * amount of gains VS probability of fall * amount of fall).

Bottom line: No right/wrong methodologies, just sharing so that folks go in with eyes open and not barbarian berserker style

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Sep 8 2011, 11:51 AM

From 2 very different point of views, i think we agree that gold similar/acts as cash (dont want to use "money" as a term as can be confused with even gold/silver coinage )?
Thus, although it's another an asset class, it looks to be a storage of value rather than a CREATION of value - it just sits there and "hopefully" goes up in value due to x, y & z variables, just like cash.

Yeah - cash = jack up the printing presses and voila!
Er.. gold's value, like i posted, is its supply/availability. Gotta dig for it (or pan for it ).
BTW, good points on when gold prices will go down.

Pls dont misunderstand, I agree - gold is another invest-able/trade-able asset class. Thus, there is no argument that one can put $ into gold OR other asset classes, other than stodgy old FD. Bro - i'm definitely a proponent of fighting-off the risk that most FD lovers ignore, INFLATION.

er.. i think the compounded pa of gold, according to 2001 to 2010 track record as U put it, can be equaled or beaten by a mixture of other asset classes.
In and by itself, it MAY not be a magic bullet.
01/01/2001 USD274.45/ounce
31/12/2010 USD1,405.50/ounce
That comes up to be approximately 19.90%pa compounded yearly

BTW, dont lar - taking the lowest (2001/2002) and then projecting to the highest heheh. I know gold is an investment / trade worthy asset class, but to just look from bottom to top aint a balanced-view.
eg. of a skewed view, i use one of the Malaysian stocks (pathetic moving stocks compared to US stocks )
Public Bank Bhd
28/10/2008 RM7.420
01/08/2011 RM13.460 (excluding dividends and splits, which will add %pa into the returns if included)
That comes up to be approximately 24%pa+ compounded yearly, excluding dividends in pocket + splits

Heheeh - changgih leh looking from bottom to up only (sounds kinky too ), right bro? In fact, some property bro can even show properties beating the pants off everything else coz it's highly leveraged, especially bought at the "bottom and looking up" (i like the sound of that somehow ),
Not a balanced view mar. Again, i'm not against gold ar - heck i myself am investing in metals and other commodities. Like some other folks that have posted, just trying to share another view for risk management purposes.

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Sep 8 2011, 06:47 PM

Heheh - physical gold a long time ago (ie. about 5 years+/- back) as part of an larger Asset Allocation thinggy

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Sep 9 2011, 08:51 AM

Yup yup, i know and agree with U (already lar) about cash and printing + banking systems generating ghost numbers based on debts/loans/deposits.

It's the "gold is everything - bestest in the world" which i differ in opinion.
If a person is so worried about the collapse of governments and countries' economies cash currencies that one invests/buys only gold and not any other assets, think about the aftermath:
a. If it doesnt happen
oh oh..... totally "sai lang" / "show hand" approach, all eggs in one basket/asset class... and if it shoots up (heaven is a place on earth), if it falls (hell is a place on earth). Just too much of a roller-coaster ride for my old heart heheh.

b. If it does happen
Until things settle down and an exchange rate is set (for whatever is going to the the value of exchange like gold?)
Holy crap! No businesses running, no value exchange other than barter (until things settle down yar)
Er.. anyone wants to trade their 5kg rice for 1gram of gold? 5gms? Please? anyone?
Gas cylinders for 1gram? 2 grams?
ooo.. what about weapons and secured dwelling to protect oneself's family, physical gold/silver/platinum/sea shells/salt cubes and stuff?

Of course that will only last for "awhile" (i'm being sarcastic yar ) until the country/world starts being civilized again, commerce re-starts and we do things better than barter system.

In addition, i wonder what will happen to people that invested in properties & equities? All koyak - no more land, building & businesses?
Of course those who are holding FDs, Bonds and Money Market accounts all koyak lar.
What about those who are "investing" in gold via Gold Accounts? definitely wiped out too as banks collapses?
Seriously bro, if it does happen, gold vs cash vs other asset classes would be one of my last concerns

c. If it semi-happens (ie. hyper inflation and stuff - the usual kaka)
Bad case: price of Gold goes up, government tries to confiscate, down with the government, revolution, etc., leads to (b) above i think
So-so case: Inflation runs rampant, ppl still use cash, gold prices goes up but so does equities that people want/are in demand (eg. food producing companies, plantations, consumer staples, etc). Thus not only gold prices goes up during this time? I'm unsure - touch wood i've not been in a DEPRESSION like in the US 1930s-1940s. Er.. i think neither have any fellows here in the forum


Just a thought. Of course, it's definitely your God given rights to believe solely in gold bro. This is a forum to share point of views and opinions yar

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Sep 9 2011, 02:38 PM

No worries bro - you're passionate. I know where U are coming from

Hey - good survivalist ideas, similar to what i had in mind
Me, hehe - just doing small scale water sustainability (rain-water harvesting & solar boiling) + food & cooking gas stocking (use & replenish) & protection.
Planning for a self-sustaining plot of land + home but currently the $'s weak + dunno how to effectively secure/defend such an open area VS current simple terrace house.

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Sep 10 2011, 05:47 PM

Hehhe - sorry for the off topic shortie bro/sis
It's not an economic thing for me - it's "just in case" .
Anyways, i am using the water for washing and gardening + energy anyhow.
Sorry mod - end of non-gold thinggy - a thousand apologies

Hey, dont lar like that bro Prophetjul - it's called Prosumer (bastardizing the words "professional" & "consumer") of olden direct scamming oops marketing era mar

Eh - not a bad deal leh for risk takers if the scam.. oops, the scheme, IF it's still around for longer than 5 years (like Madoff's),
based on my neophyte assumptions & calculations posted in http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2023951/+115 ("I am preparing for Global Recession, Be cash rich" thread/topic). Of course dont lar re-invest and call the whole village to join in - sure implode one day (but that day may be loooooooooong off or tomorrow )

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Sep 17 2011, 02:41 PM

U have the same fire as i have against CONsultants ,
especially with the "anytime is a good time to buy" with no value approach, plans and methodologies. Perhaps they are right, anytime is a good time... to fill the CONsultants' wallets

Hi PatEagle,
Er.. did i say my words are gospel truths? Like most others, it's just my IMHO .
Your's posts are gospel truths just because Mahatir said something about dinar and newspapers/mags printed SOMETHING about them or related to your stuff? Or coz it's on some online media stuff? I see, that's YOUR definition of gospel truth - sorry, that's your reality, not mine I know how publications and media get their $ and i'm sure most people here do to.

These are gospel truths?
- Genneva sells gold and is not a ponzi scheme, says firm – The Star
- Watch Video: Interview with Genneva Director Tan Liang Keat – TV1¹s Selamat Pagi Malaysia
- Dr. Mahathir galak rakyat simpan emas – Utusan Malaysia
- Apa kata Dr Mahathir tentang Dinar – Berita Harian Metro
- Jongkong Emas Pelaburan Terbaik? – Mingguan Malaysia
- Investing in Gold Pays – OSAiM
Either "paid" publications / online media and associated stuff (gold / dinar)?



BTW, if U had checked the link i posted (http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2023951/+115), i was trying to have a balanced view of your scheme.
Officially, it can be said that it's not an investment company, thus the authorities may not be able to touch it and it's consultants.
I mean, logically looking at it:
a. Consumer buys Stuff at Market Price + about 25% more than market price + sign 6 months
b. Company pays 1.5% per month to consumer
So far looks kosher - stuff is in consumers' hand
if we discount the fact where consumer purposely paid about 25% more than market price to Co
in order to get Co to pay them 1.5%pm.
IMHO, typical of some network / direct selling Co. - still legit gua ignoring sustainability and lopsided risk taken by consumers.

c. Thus i used your website's details to calculate the real returns for 5 years, 3 years, 2 years and 1 year.
As expected, the REAL returns arent as nice IF my calculations are correct, especially within 1 to 3 years.
Concerns i have are:
i) If price of gold goes up, consumer still needs to top up every 6 months the differential.
Pls note that i admit that i may be wrong here as it's totally based on your website's data/info

ii) Thus i assume if price goes down, Company will "top up" consumer - as in pay the differential
Fair enough 2 ways calculation? BTW, i'm just assuming here to be fair BUT the Company may not do so.

iii) Due to item c i.), the effective returns for end of 1 year is NOT 18%pa as U stated. Again, i stand to be corrected since i built the spreadsheets based only on information gleaned from your website

d. My assumption of selling off the physical gold at the end of each 5yr to 1yr simulated period is based on the info posted in forums/websites where IF one sells gold with no worldwide accepted certification, the sell back price would be spot price LESS 10% to 20%.
Again, i stand to be corrected as i'm assuming your Company's issues own certificate and not providing worldwide certification as other physical gold bar sellers.

e. Thus, bottomline - it looks like one needs to hold for at least 5 years to make decent (not crazy 18%pa) profits AND the most dangerous caveat would be nearly EVERYTHING depends on the Company not changing the rules of the game + gold not going down + Company doesnt go down.

I think i've done more than most of your schemes' detractors, going a step further just to see whether IF your scheme is technically viable (again ignoring the stupidity to pay +25% more than market rate). Since U are so into it, correct me with the scans of contracts (aiya blank off the name/account details lar) and come up with your own calculations lar. Please stop me, as U said, "get your facts right and stop spreading misinformation based on assumptions."

Did i say it's a Ponzi scheme? Again read that link - i stated it "gives gold in hand" difference.
Did U read properly and even have Excel or OpenOffice to open the spreadsheets? Er.. U can unZIP the file and use even GoogleDocs online if U dont have those 2 software

Yes, i agree - let's be "responsible netizens" and post facts as much as possible. However, having said that, facts are just one's "reality" until a better proven "reality" shows up, thus, please do share and help correct my personal reality and i think lots of others too, of Genneva gold's scheme. Note - it's the scheme i'm worried about, not U or your Co. or whatever - just like stocks/properties and gold. By itself, no problems - it is the matter of methodology / process that is in question.

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Sep 18 2011, 10:04 AM

MBB & CIMB doesnt provide online trading the last i checked about 3 months ago.

UOB peculiar - when i called them and asked about their Gold a/c, they said that not only have to physically go to a branch BUT also hopefully that branch U go to has not sold out its gold yet. BTW, i was very very firm and specific about gold a/c, not gold bars.

brudder - "right" reason for U may not be right reason for others mar, right or right?

Ah.. another brother who believes in the one and only truth/single reality/right. Of course you're "right"

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Sep 18 2011, 08:36 PM