can sell back to me at discount.

dun waste your time . It's a private arrangement between themselves.

despite the correction during that time UOB run out of stock for few months when the price is RM2600 - RM2900+ /oz.
after that when price was RM3300+ plenty of stock.

---

Added on September 8, 2011, 5:29 pmI sort of slightly disagreed with the above argument.

whatever you said about gold is also true about paper /fiat currency.

>>
Gold cant be "used" (ie. softest metal) by tom, d*** & harry easily, cant be eaten, cant be planted and grown, cant be used as a physical shelter, needs to be protected from theft, can be "confiscated" or forced sell by Government, etc. Gold's value is based on perception and/or scarcity.what
>>

The only differences is money can be printed and gold cannot. The more government print $ the more they steal from people. it's an indirect stealing via inflation. the more $ printed, the more development and social program can be implemented at the cost of general inflation to others.

the argument is what if you have extra cash what do U do with it?
- keep in FD, let the indirectly stealing take places.
or invest in gold.

according to 2001 to 2010 track record, can you find a asset class beating gold.
not stock, not property , not etc.

Few ways for gold to go down
a) Very bad monetary contraction, when money suddenly disappeared from the market, tight liquidity. Not enough cash to chase after the goods then gold price will fail.

b) Assets price has to drop to a level of very low as such that it make more sense to sell your gold USD1800/oz for other.
E.g. Double storey house in Puchong at below RM300K.
that means lot of people out of job etc.

c) enormous discovery of new gold. However, we already peak on gold production few years back. South arfica already down.
d) Gold production cost is energy intensive, due to lack of oil in the future . Production cost will triple.
2001 :- gold cost/oz USD250/oz
2010:- USD600 - 700/oz/







This post has been edited by GoldChan: Sep 8 2011, 05:29 PM

>>
BTW, dont lar - taking the lowest (2001/2002) and then projecting to the highest heheh. I know gold is an investment / trade worthy asset class, but to just look from bottom to top aint a balanced-view.
eg. of a skewed view, i use one of the Malaysian stocks (pathetic moving stocks compared to US stocks )
Public Bank Bhd
28/10/2008 RM7.420
>>
1. For stock you have to analyze 100+ stock then come up with 5-6 goods one. FYI, not all people buy Public Bank.

but for gold and silver, there are very few source you can choose from . If you done your homework, you can get from UOb.
THus, the probability of getting a higher return in general is much more greater than stock market & property.

>>
Heheeh - changgih leh looking from bottom to up only (sounds kinky too ), right bro? In fact, some property bro can even show properties beating the pants off everything else coz it's highly leveraged, especially bought at the "bottom and looking up" (i like the sound of that somehow ),
Not a balanced view mar. Again, i'm not against gold ar - heck i myself am investing in metals and other commodities. Like some other folks that have posted, just
>>

2. If you have selected the right area Puchong, Cheras, Kinrara, for property then your investment boom. Otherwise, it may not perform as well as gold.
Wrong Area :- Kajang, Dengkil, Balakong, Cyberjaya, :- slower price growth.
Must also buy and sell at the right time.

Thus for timing and selection point of view, golds beat almost every thing in general.

3. I agree that gold by itself is off no use and value. but the way the money is working now and the iiresponsibility of many governments had left us no choice but to take our position in gold.
Can government afford not to print so much money.
Can politician get elected w/o the nice promise they make to the people. How to fulfill the promise, print more $$ lah. run on deficits.

4. In fiat $, fractional reserve is in play. Thus for every RM100 printed, addition RM450 is created by fractional reserve. (by for ease of calculation RM10)
RM100 printed, RM90 deposited to customer1 bank1, RM10 customer use
bank1 rented out RM80/- to customer2, RM70 deposited into bank customer2 bank2 a/c again, customer2 use up RM10/-
Bank 2 rent out RM60/- ....

100, 90, 80, 70,60,50,40,30,20, 10 = 100 (original) + 450 (extra is created out of thin air).

This does not include the interest factor.

If gold and silver is used, then is full reserve banking. If you have 1000oz of gold, you can only rent out 1000 oz of gold.
Thus, the banker won;t like this, because the more it rent the more $ they get for interest.
That why banker has the best and biggest building in the major cities world.

Thus, the gold and silver price must be suppressed.
In 1980s - 2001s, the price is suppressed via the existing central bank gold sales etc.

QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Sep 8 2011, 06:30 PM)

different view are respected. sometimes, i sound harsh, I apologise up front.

1. It's a question of timing. Many argue whether it is a slow death or quick death.

Quick Death.
Nuclear war. If that the case, then spend most your $ now.

Slow Death.
This one susah.


rite now in Malaysia I think we still have some time as long as no racist riot.
as a peak oil believer, I don;t think much about property and stock. cause I believe they are the first to fail when economy collapse.

http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Survival-Manu...c/dp/9870563457
this book will give you a good picture on how things look like.
but for malaysia U may need to consider that we have malay, chinese and indian. How will each of them interact during crises remain to be seen.

the safest place to be is in Borneo Sarawak deep in the jungle where you grow your own food. iban community

2nd safest place like Sibu, etc. Chinese Community
given the chances if you can let go everything here, and have enough cash to settle down on places with established community all

places like Pahang with small town: Malay community. plant rice, rear itik, ayam, kambing.


problem; land is too expensive to buy.
land takes 3-5 years to stabilizes and start producing enough food.

that the way I see at things.

the rest of the things, no need to consider. There is no oil or any other energy to run it.

for gold, its a question of timing. when to dispose, definitely something to consider in 2012 - 2015.

at a start, for security reason. Terrace or kampung house is the way to go. Thus, one will live with whatever he able to stock. lifespan 1-2 years
important thing is the water supply source. If that issue is addressed, then survival will be based on the amount of food you can stock.
After things is settled, then only land issue.
no plan is a good plan.

it may be a good time now to sell your gold and change to USD. and try to buy back in end of september,. Just my gut feeling only.
I think USD will rise 3.1 to 3.2 max RM3.3 , then gold to fall USD1700+
but all these thing will happen quite quickly one.

it;s a bet lah. I think it will go down mah.

PM is not allowed to drop low during long holiday/break. This is to prevent pre-long cheap sales.
cheap sales only happen a while and time is short and you must execute it quickly.

yah! I got sleepless nite in 2008 when I brought at USD1000+ RM3200+ in Mar 2008 and it drop to USD700+. RM2700++ . in August 2008
RM500/oz differences. few months holding paper lost.

after that, it recovers to RM3500+ I sold off quite a bit then price blump2 goes up to 4K.

that time don;t know how to see technical.

---

Added on September 21, 2011, 11:38 amHi,
Could you share your strategy from 2001 to now. R U doing dollar cost averaging. Every month buy 1 oz etc.
Let us know.
or E.g
2001 :- RM20K
2002 :- RM30K
2003 :- RM40K

how is your trading model? when you take profit ?
etc.



This post has been edited by GoldChan: Sep 21 2011, 11:38 AM

great ! Your strategy almost similar with one of my friend an experienced trader. because you know it early mah.
generally it should look like a diamond shape or pyramid shape.

Let take one example lah.
2002 : 100 oz
2003 : 75 oz
2004 : 50 oz
2005 : 30 oz
2006: 20 oz
2007 : 15 oz
2008 : 10 oz

in case, the price fall from USD1000/- to USD700/- you still make $ cause most of your stock is at low prices.

the rest how about u, if your profolio is less than 15% precious metal and
if you think 2015 :- gold = USD5K/oz.
so now you whack kao kao spread over a period of few month. rather than waiting the price around USD3K/oz.

Now forward to future,
2011 : USD1800/- oz RM100,000 investment
2012 : USD2200/- oz RM60,000 investment
2013 : USD3000/- RM50,0000 investment

suddenly let said new major oil discovery , gold price drop to USD2000/oz. you still won;t cry mah.

U sold off too early.!
I think for next week it will stay in USD1800+
the correct pricing will normally be reflected when the market closed on Saturday and Sunday.
weeksday price are much more manipulated.

depend on which country U going to ok?
even though it is tax free, there is a limit to how many oz u can carry w/o any declaration. I think is about USD20,000. if not mistaken.
varies between countries.
If it is more than that then U need to declare. It for money laundering protection.

UOB out of stock for 1 month.
I think 1stopgold offer the best price. No need to go anywhere else lah.

i learnt in 2006 started with peak oil then followed by financial crisis etc.
only start buying in 2008. procrastinated for 1.5 year
There isn;t much place left to put our $$ in for working class people like me
Either precious metal, 1-2 property to stay, stock -sucks for me,

just looking to buy some land and become a farmer but now many issue got to address .
land too expensive, too far away to maintain now unless resign, then no $$ etc...
whole string of issues.

from all my reading, until 2001 we are starting to run out of oil.
In the period prior to 2001, there are still plenty of oil, so you can focus on growth such as property , stocks, etc.
Economy need oil to grow. period.

No more oil then economy grow will slow down. The only way is to print $$ to support the economy, to keep politician elected, to keep things going until suddenly everything collapse. As long as they print $, gold will go up. Up to maybe USD5000/oz. in 2014-2015
everything sucks, stock, property, etc. Even precious metal sucks especially if you have brought at USD49/oz or USD1900/oz for gold

For gold to go down,
a) some of the printed $$$ must disappeared quickly. To do that while having your government elected etc is almost impossible.
so inflate or die.

or

b) new world order where the elite managed to get together and forum world new currency back by gold SDR
then the cycle repeat itself for another 5-20 years.

c) Or WW3 lah.
food has more value than gold lah.

or sudden appearance of attractive class of investment
d) e.g suddenly double storey house in Bangsar become 300K, you sell all your gold buy bangsar house or
e) Maybank share = RM1.

last 2 mths lah, not last 6 mths

---

Added on October 23, 2011, 4:07 pmwell, here are some pointers for those who wanted to know more

http://www.peakoilandhumanity.com/chapter_choice.htm

http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse

If you are not upset, you don;t understand the problem. In the end, there is only 2 group. Those who believe and those who didn;t.

>There are enough untapped oil for the rest 40-50 years without much problem, just how oil price dictated whether people interested to dig out those >untapped marginal oil field, deep sea one.
a) if this is true, then no 9/11, no iraq war, no libya war, USA won;t bother about IRAN at all.
b) petronas no need to go worldwide looking 4 oil., China will not go worldwide looking 4 oil.
c) China will stop all the coal mining , will not built the biggest hydro and dam all the river.
d) No need to do nucklear in Japan, USA, UK, China. just switch to gas + oil.
e) no need to do tar sand in Canada. as tar sand is
as of now, there is no major oil field found since 2004. peak discovery was in 1967, after Ghawar (saudi arab) no more major oil field bigger than ghawar was found.

current EROEI for deep sea oil is 5:1. That means 5 barrel of oil for one barrel of oil invested in production exclude exploration cost.
Since 1980s, no more new oil refining facilities was developped. if there is oil why not build more refinery.
All major oil companies merged.
Exxon + Mobil. e.g.

The no of oil well drill in USA exceed those in Middle east by a factor of 10x.
nothing can replace oil. period.
Money cannot buy oil in the future.



This post has been edited by GoldChan: Oct 23 2011, 04:07 PM

1. ask the counter personally. I think it was still available 2-3 mths ago as i was there and saw few people buying.
2.canada oil sand.
well its -ve energy lah.
in any oil field , gas is found. but just like some liquid in the balloon. if you poke the balloon the gas will go off 1st. so gas will run off 1st b4 we run out of oil.
So in many oil field, when gas is found there have 2 options.
a) if it not economical, not much gas just burn it.
b) if got pipeline, lot of gas, then capture it and pipe it to LNG infrastructure.

in canada sandoil, they are using the nearby gas from the tarsand, burn it to heat up the sand + oil + water to extract the oil.
Once the gas run out, you still have oil in the sand but U could not extra it. period.
annual production is still very low lah. not justifiable as a resources.

When U C news on finance, politic, etc we tend not to believe the general media.
But when media tell U about some new technology, new oil discovery, people believe it. That is was hope is all about. but for me
my study show me there is not much hope in oil.
U just give me any point I can give you a counter example.

Money = ability to do work = energy.
The way our $ system work today does not factor in the actual energy cost and actual cost to replace the energy.
once the non-renewable energy run out, that it. things will far apart2 very2 fast.

in singapore UOB gold/silver also no online so you can expect they will not online for a long time to come.
they have the best spread and they will keep it that way, until some other banks comes and give a low spread.

what is their rate? share2 lah. How many % over spot?

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Added on November 11, 2011, 10:09 pmif price is so low there is an opportunities to do something on it

This post has been edited by GoldChan: Nov 11 2011, 10:09 PM