Hheeh - simple lor, ask her to show U her PERSONAL investments - results and methodologies.
If she's just a sales agent, straight away she'll clam up

If she does show U hers U may have a good investment agent on your hand OR some other fun Sorry sorry - couldnt help myself there.

Yeah - buying due to price and volume movement is more of trading not investing, right bro Boney?
Ni bukan individual stocks or futures but mutual funds with service charges of 5.5% (heck even FundSupermart = 2%), which is way above stocks & futures contract. How to trade lar

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Added on September 4, 2011, 7:59 amPersonally, i'd fire:
a. 33% of all ammo i've allocated to mutual funds' "value buy" when market stops falling for awhile
b. If it moves down later, i've still 66.66% ammo left to buy value - eg. if it goes down, i'll sit and wait until "straight line" dead market again, and then put in another 33%
c. when market goes up continuously (albeit slowly) for 3 to 6 months, i'll put in another 33%

Chicken shit risk mgt heheh - seen double dips before, dont want to jump in with both feet.
how low is low

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Sep 4 2011, 07:59 AM

Calling out to all newbies and er.. semi-experience mutual fund investors (NOT traders wannabes):
Just a thought to share:

Before U go and invest CASH into mutual funds, why not do EPF to mutual funds first?
Reasons:
1. Lower service charges for equity funds (3% vs 5.5% for PM)
2. Learn and do (active learning). Hey, when U've some skin in the game, U tend to learn better & faster yar
3. Your EPF's going to be sitting there for quite awhile right?
No cash flow impact + FORCED long term thinking

Then as U become a more experienced investor riding mutual funds, U can start thinking about cash investments... into stocks, amanah saham whatever, REITs and of course, mutual funds.

Just a low cash flow impact + active learning + forced long term thinking approach

hheheh - sorry, was up to my eyeballs in Private Messages after doing them worksheets.

Ammo = my slang for "cash in-hand awaiting to buy into specific assets"
my dumbass slang coz:
IF
a. got gun (ie. methodologies)
b. got targets coming into my gun's sight (ie. opportunity)
c. NO AMMO / bullets!
i'll be kicking myself so hard that... my great great great ancestors will feel it

Financial market volatile meh bro Boney? IMHO it's straight forward down down down
coz from my POV (point of view), down can be 5%+ but up (from the down) is 1% to 2%+.
to me, 2% up isnt 2% up from 100% coz fell 5%+ liao. Thus, effectively less than 2%up

Lots of marketing gimmick, especially those investment houses/fund houses puts it like:
2008 fell 48% but ar, 2009 up back 48% thus no problem.
My foot - the climb is LESS than the fall
Fall (100% -48%) + Climb ( (100%-48%) *48%) is still less than 100%

Gold no idea - looks to have reach a plateau - potential risk is way too high for me personally VS rewards.

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Sep 5 2011, 12:54 PM

Maybe, maybe not on the >10yrs horizon timeline.

IMHO and experience, it depends on one's investment methodology / approach.
eg. on like 2001 dips and 2008 crahes, if one does trend investing (in and out based on mid-long term trend), one can make $ within 2 to 3 years and SWITCH back to Bond Funds. I did exactly that with my value/trend capital.

As for my programmatic investments, still chugging along and also making $ overall (note - bond + equities) about 8%pa+/- even in this down market.

However all these take time to learn and test, thus, my recommendation stands for newbies to get their toes wet first by doing EPF to mutual funds, learn and do better

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Sep 5 2011, 01:32 PM

and thus U should have your own tracking spreadsheet yar?
I too was and is still cheesed off with fund houses (not just PM) sending garbage "info" to me - gross returns / lump sum profits/loss, no CAGR per transaction, no CAGR overall, etc. Thus, build your own

I dunno about him (pointing at bro David83) but i'm still buying in based on my programmatic approach (DCA+VCA)
5 years+ plan mar, what to do - follow through and tweak along the way if needed lor

U leh? What's yr plans and approach? Still buying in? Sitting out? Or ???
Share share your views / opinion & methodologies lar. Dont just ask a Q without some reasoning or sharing yr thoughts

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Sep 5 2011, 11:24 PM

Er.. U switched how many units in total ar bro? 3,600+ or 120+ ar?

If U did switch 3,600+, then the answer is staring U in that statement leh - look at the units switched.
Some units were below 90days, some units were after 90days purchase

New "rules" in SWITCHING quite awhile ago


This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Sep 7 2011, 02:01 PM

U sound like a "mutual fund collector" Well, better than a bag or shoe collector for wealth building purposes i guess

Seriously though - what's your plan? aim? entry/exit rules? reasoning to buy previously and now?
If no cohesive plan, then maybe any equity fund do-able via EPF would seem to be good enough.

I'll play the devil's advocate for now - PAGF & PSSF.
Reason: Works well for my own entry & exit rules
+ check out PAGF's 10 & 5 yrs' performance (top 25%tile for PB/PM i think) VS it's 3 to 1yrs' (top 50%tile for PB/PM i think) ending last week.
+ PSSF's 3yrs & 1yrs performance (top 25%tile i think)
I posted these stats earlier somewhere in PM V3 thread - look for it.

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Sep 7 2011, 03:09 PM

My bad - fleshing out Entry & Exit:
Entry - as in DCA, Lump Sum, VCA, Trend following etc
Exit - as in SWITCH from Equity funds, to Bond funds XX% or 100%
WHEN Trend hits xxx, Transaction net profit hits xx%pa or yy% if less than 1 year (abnormally high), etc.

Of course dont lar redeem and then incur another 3% when U go back into Equity funds from EPF

It'll work IF not for the fact that Bond fund's NAV will DEFLATE / DROP the exact value of dividends it shot out.
To add salt to injury, some of these dividends may be taxable.

Good idea on trying to optimize though.

I had some "optimizing" idea on bond / equity funds too waaaay earlier until i found out all the loopholes were closed off. There is a reason why "big biz" hires the smartest ones around

er.. simplifying:
1. U bought at $1 NAV (ignoring 0.25% svc charge) in 2011 1 Jan
2. NAV goes up to $1.10 in exactly 1year in 2012 1 Jan
and dividend declared $0.06 cents per unit
3. 2nd Jan, after ex, NAV will now be $1.10 - $0.06 + whatever growth between 2012 1 Jan to 2012 2 Jan.

Thus, please note that dividends in mutual funds are similar to stocks - when it's paid out, the $ is from the fund (in stocks' case its company's cash), thus it devalues each unit held in the fund.
However, the effect of the distribution of dividends are a bit dis-similar to stocks.
Fund's NAV drops EXACTLY the amount distributed via dividend (then +/- all the other stuff - see below "to complicate matters")
Stocks' price drops based on market's sentiment, heck, sometimes even rises after ex!


To complicate matters, no. 3 is actually
NAV will now be $1.10
- $0.06 dividend distributed
+(whatever growth between 2012 1 Jan to 2012 2 Jan)

-(mgt fees prorated + trustee fees prorated + etc.)
-(whatever transaction cost by bond fund managers' buy/sell between 2012 1 Jan to 2012 2 Jan)

Net Profits /Loss = Current Total Value (NAV * units U are holding) LESS Total cost (ie. $ U paid)

Special software = Calculator and a bit of brain power

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Sep 10 2011, 01:11 PM

er.. also simple mar switching

STEP 1 - The SWITCH out of fund A
(units out * NAV switched = Sales) LESS (units out * average cost per unit)
Thus U know the net profits of "SELLING" off of Fund A's units

STEP 2 - The SWITCH into Fund B
Your cost would be the Sales above. Take this and divide by your units received and you'll have the average cost per unit

NOTE: I'm assuming U know how to use Excel + U do track you re-invested units growth

PS: Added this for your easy visualization


This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Sep 10 2011, 10:28 PM

Not sifu here bro but it is clear on the link U presented itself - "TOTAL RETURNS"

Total Returns = pau kah liao, as in NAV + reinvested dividends and "whatever else" (which i've no idea heheh)
Mind U, i dont think your particular transaction's service charges' are costed into the "start" of the NAV (pls correct me if i'm in lalaland on this).

As far as i know (which aint much ), even if U EMPTY the AGENT field in PMOnline, your current agent still gets a % of the service charges

Worst, if U doing it via PBonline and U must select an existing fund account, FOR SURE your agent for that account will get a % of the service charges.

Best = to work with another agent, ie. fill in form one time, then next time just invest via that new agent/account.

BTW, i'm in no way encouraging U to tell your current agent to bugger off k

Wah bro - like that incur another round of service charges % leh.
Not too good to cut off the nose to spite the face

true but based on trend (mid-long) analysis, one may want to hold on first

er.. bro, just a logic clarification yar:
a. PIttikal NAV, an equity fund mainly buying local stocks (pls correct if i'm in lalaland ar ) down
b. U want to sell AND put into directly into local stocks

Reason:
1. coz stock market also down?
OR
2. you've got some stock picks going against the grain / current bearish trend?
OR
3. other reasons?