You could start your research by filtering out my previous posts... there are some tips and links to the annual financial statements found in the Public Mutual website in the previous posts.

PM has many funds (maybe too many); no point in knowing the average ROI for all the funds as you're not likely to invest in each and every one of them.

Ratio among the type of funds is normally tied to age of the investor; and also depends on your risk appetite. If a fund goes south when you're young, there's still time to hold and wait for it to recover. If you're in the retirement age group, you don't have that luxury any more; so more bonds, and funds that give annual dividends in the portfolio of funds.

But I don't think linking the ratio to age holds anymore, it is better to balance the portfolio to the financial temperature at all times.

Just my 2 cents.

"The current upfront fee ranges from 5% to 6.5% on the invested amount, except for money from Employees Provident Fund (EPF) to invest in funds (under the EPF Members Investment Scheme) which is capped to 3% since Jan 1, 2008."

"The exit fee may be 1% or higher but much depends on the structure of the fund. The annual management fee ranges from 1% to 1.5% and the trustee fees is from 0.5% to 1%."

One reason I like PM is that it has no exit fee. I don't mind the annual management fee & trustee fees. The only real concern is the high upfront fee (or service charge in PM lingo); and that's the reason why I, as an investor, tries to point out at every opportunity I can get.

As it is, one needs to hold a fund at least 6-7 years to average out the service charge to less than 1%. Feasible for the twenties to early forties age group, but costlier to the mid forties to fifties and above age group.

Thumbs up for EPF for throwing in their weight and capped the service charge to 3%... hope everyone took notice of this, and maybe the market will force the unit trusts houses to lower also their service charges to investments from savings external to EPF.

P.S. with apologies to all hardworking UTCs as the service charge is directly linked to their income... but then again this is a forum for new and old investors for sharing their experiences and thoughts.

This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Jun 17 2012, 02:57 PM

Very easy, you can do it online or other means...

Whether online or otherwise, you will need to indicate how many units of PSF you want to switch out.

The basic calculation is no. of units you have in PSF x the unit price (of PSF) = NAV in ringgits.
Then the NAV is divided by the unit price of PRSF = no. of units in PRSF.

So the final result is the number of units you're holding in PRSF. To know the up-to-date value (in ringgit) you have, multiply the number of units by its latest unit price.

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Generally, what is shown on the fund prices website is yesterday's prices. Today's prices would only be know after the stock markets are closed and Public Mutual would then calculate the funds' unit prices.

In other words, the unit prices of both PSF and PRSF will only be known after 4.00pm, but you do the switching before 4.00pm. If it is later than 4.00pm (which is possible if you do it online), the switching will be based on the next business day prices.

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Correction: there is a switching fee, so after deduction of the fee, you will not get the exact number of units as given in above formula.

(sorry, i tends to forget the switching fee... as gold members, we get some free switchings in a year. )



This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Jun 17 2012, 07:05 PM

Yes, always advisable to be patient... and always look before you leap... but there's also another saying "time is money".

I was feeling lethargic 2 weeks ago, & needed a bit of hype... thus switched some bonds to equity (Public Islamic Opportunities among them). Doing great so far... lol.

Generally governments will prop up the stock markets before an general election to show that the country and economy is doing well under their commands.

So when is the GE13? There could be a mini rally till then... and it seemed to have started.

PS. I could be wrong... and KLSE could tumble this week... then I and .

A fund would be closed when all its shares is fully bought up (or close to that level)... nothing to do with its unit price... I don't think anyone buying into or selling out of the fund will affect the unit price.

Also when the price is lower, it does not necessary means it is performing poorly... it might be lower because of the economic situation in general, but it could also be out-performing its benchmark... an unit split or distribution at its financial year-end could also lower the unit price.

(Just my 2 cents... and trying to sound like an "expert". )

What is UIC?

My switching in and out of a fund will affect its unit price? Really? Please expand...

yes, that's make sense.

there's an old joke... don't recalled it punchline or humor; but it's something like this... An investor was buying into a stock every month and as the stock had steadily increased 6 months straight, he was happy buying it without fail... so at the end of the 6th month, he wanted to sell and harvest the profit. But his stockbroker said there is no buyer. How is this so? The stock price had steadily climbed the past 6 months, he asked. Stockbroker said he was the sole buyer in the stock, and he himself has steadily bid up the price the past 6 months!

thank god PM has millions of units in a fund, and thousands of unit holders buying and selling...

or maybe I'm wrong about PM... should I be scared?

Hi guys,

Here's the situation: a bond fund switched into equity fund (PIOF) 2 weeks ago, and as of yesterday, gained 2.7%. It would be going up a bit today, and KLCI is just 3 points below 1600 at the moment.

Switched out penalty is 0.75%.

Should I lock in the gain and pay the penalty or let it be and allow it to sink when the market goes down?

Will the downside be more than 3%, wiping out all the gain plus much, much more?

Or will the market maintained its level (slightly below or above) for another 2.5 months?... which by then the switch out cost is only RM25.

What's your opinion?

no exit plan la... that's why the panic questions... so just bite the bullet?

what other option to decide? there's 2 other portions still in bonds... throw them in when market goes lower? (afraid to use the word "crash")

any other opinions?

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Added on June 20, 2012, 5:45 pm19/6/2012 PUBLIC SMALLCAP FUND PSMALLCAP 0.7449 -0.0008 -0.11%

in a wall of green... only equity in red...

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Added on June 20, 2012, 5:50 pmbtw what is "exit" plan? How do you set it?


This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Jun 20 2012, 05:50 PM

Thanks for the reply.

Just manage to give it a quick read now, will give a longer reply and tell what my plans will be.

Thanks again.

Cheers.

First of all, thanks again for taking the time...

Now i see what you mean by plans... yeah, the motivation behind the savings... for me, a simple man, just savings for rainy days and retirement. Other needs, I don't put into long term savings - plain FD without high entry cost would better serve those needs. And EPF still has a big bulk of my savings. (And if PM is reading this and waiting to lay a hand on this savings, dream on - until you lower the entry cost. )

Ok, I also have savings in other assets (if I get the meaning of 'Asset Allocation' correctly). So in this category, I seems to be doing fine.

The major problem is my portfolio of PM funds; as mentioned in previous posts. Not in the same situation as yours to have 80-100% in bonds.

I started to raise a batch of fast horses while previously, having only a hardy goat. So without prior understanding, I treated the horses wrongly, letting them run free and wild like the goat. The goat is tame, very hardy, no problem when times were bad, and able to forage on its own. But not the horses, some run really wild, jump over the fence and got lost.

It's only this year, I got the time to tend to them; and now understand that with horses, the most profitable time is when they won a race. Win a race, sell them. Old horses become dog food. So by now, I also found most of them, with all the unsupervised free running, have turned lame as well.

And everyone knows what to do with a lame horse... you shoot it.

So, 3 months ago, I shot one. And another one today. There's still 5 more in the stable. It's too painful to shoot them all at once.

Still, I'm doing my best to balance the portfolio.

Has 3 licensed-to-kill agents in the wing to deploy if the situation turns ugly. (Yes, it's 3, not 2 as wrongly mentioned in above post.) And also 2 moderators, who should be able to negotiate their way out of trouble on their own.

Made 2 agents do fox runs 2 weeks ago. Got into panic mode during the mission, but all is well.

One of the 2 agents made a split run - into Singapore and to a lame horse. Did not complete the fox run, but did a grasshopper hop from Singapore to a safe haven moderator. Also shot dead the lame horse and carry it to another safe haven moderator.

The other agent is still in the PIOF coop, still stealing chicken! I think he will complete the fox run after stealing enough chicken, and return to base. Another grasshopper hop is possible, as I can't afford to have too many agents sleeping in their bases.

Will only know how many chicken I got with the fox runs tomorrow, after the penalty fees and costs are calculated. But I think it will be more productive than allowing the agents to sit on their bums doing nothing.

continue from previous post...

PM is slow in updating the switch transactions, they are still in "Float Transactions"... maybe will only be updated on Monday.

Based on the latest fund prices, the switching out of a bond fund and into an (aggressive) equity fund and back into the bond fund in 14 days, resulted in a gain of 2.83%.

If the switching cost and penalty is 0.25% + 0.75% = 1.00%, the net gain is 1.83%.

(The highest possible net gain is 2.29% if I had switched out a day earlier.)

So this tactical play, which I named as "fox run", gained 1.83% in 14 days, in comparison to a bond fund gaining 0.89% in 106 days.

If this "fox run" is repeated 4-6 times in a year, it would generate 8-12% in a year.

If it is repeated nearly 2 times a month, or 20 times a year, allowing for 50% success, 30% empty-handed breakeven run, and 20% turning into a willy coyote and getting blown away with 1% lost; it will be a "Super Fox" with 16% gain in a year.

This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Jun 22 2012, 07:24 PM

Above was what I wrote last month, situation is almost the same, except the local bourse is at its peak.

Had just made myself a strong cup of coffee, take a sip and deep breath, and shot all the lame horses.

All these china and far east horses are limping and will loose another leg and will never recover & reach home.

So shot all of them, and sold them for dog food, taking a lost of 23k.

Paper or not, a lost is a lost.
(And not to mentioned the opportunity cost if I have had put the money in FD or EPF.)

Can only hope to be more cautious and recover the lost in near future... and with the support and experiences shared in this forum, it should not be too difficult to achieve.

It's all stated in some of my previous posts since I joined this forum... read them carefully and you should be able to figure out all my mistakes I made.

Take a guess... do you think I would be like this if it's 2.3%, and which can easily recover by putting the money back into FD?

Take a look at any of the performance charts for China & Far East funds. It's almost near the bottom of 2008.

The question is whether it's already at the bottom for 2012, or will it go down further to 2008 level, or worse still, beyond that bottom!

Take into account that dark clouds is still looming overhead...

Take a look into the fund prices if you want to make a switch... when the market goes down, all funds except bond & money market funds go down, just differences in the percentage of the drops.


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BTW in hindsight the best time to pull out was April 2011. Would have then trim the lost by 12k. The major mistake I made was assuming that it can crawl back to the peak as like the local bourse.

How high or low the percentage does not really matter when there's plenty of stuff you can do and buy with 23k, but now have to skip.

Don't be too sure with the assessment, their internal economy could be doing well, but if the yuan goes the way like the rupee does, it won't be helping us much.

Secondly, it is the hedge funds and foreign investors (ie. Euro & US) that drives up the market. Will they be betting their funds elsewhere when there are easier pickings back home?

This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Jun 27 2012, 02:42 PM

That's for sure, take the risk, take the lost readily... but why throw money when you can be smarter.

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Added on June 27, 2012, 2:57 pmWhat has your cashing out and timing got to do with the fund closing? Fund closing means it is closed for fresh investment as it has reached the upper limit of its volume and size. It shows that it is a good and popular fund to hold.

The local bourse KLCI is at its peak, if it drops, all local equity funds will drop in tandem. Only the bond and money market funds retain their level.

Smallcap is an aggressive fund. Switch to either a moderate balance fund or a conservative bond fund. Take note of switching costs if any.


This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Jun 27 2012, 02:57 PM

Sorry, didn't get the averaging part in the initial post.

Yeah, too bad you have stopped DDI, as IMHO no one can really have 'perfect' timing to buy (if given a choice to select any day), and the price fluctuation within a month would pales into insignificant in the longer term.

ok, there's suggestions in the previous posts... and I think I can see the difficulty of starting another fund without pulling out of the first fund with limited funds.

Pulblic Islamic Opportunistic is also a small capitalisation fund... its investment holdings is almost similar to Smallcap.

Good news & bad news... good distributions for the 3 funds... all 3 funds closed for fresh investments!

(I think I will put in some fresh funds from EPF on Monday into one of the above funds, even though I had said no more investment into PM...)

Are you trying to start a debate whether distribution increases the NAV of the fund? Please don't... just ended one over at the other thread.

But a good distribution does shows that the fund is showing returns for the year... if you have been holding it for some time like a year or more... it's so much more exciting than holding a dead fund that shows negative returns.

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Added on July 1, 2012, 11:42 amAgree on that not every fund is giving returns. So to balance the news, below are the year-end 30/June PB funds that are not on the distribution list:

PB Singapore Advantage-30 Equity Fund
PB China Asean Equity Fund
PB Asia Equity Fund
PB Euro Pacific Equity Fund



This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Jul 1 2012, 11:42 AM