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> Teachers Rage at SAPS, Sistem Analysis Peperiksaan Sekolah

Polaris
post Aug 15 2011, 03:11 PM


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Shame on SAPS

I REFER to recent articles on the Sistem Analysis Peperiksaan Sekolah (SAPS) or the web-based school assessment system. The delay in entering the examination data is not the fault of the teachers as I am aware of the problems.

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There are also not enough computers in school and this results in teachers, who like my wife, resort to using the computer with an Internet connection at home. Teachers are not paid allowances for using their personal computers to carry out school work.

Just from observing my wife who is stressed out everytime the system crashes, it is evident that the system is not well designed. Some of the key issues that need to be urgently addressed are:

Insufficient processing capacity

QUOTE
The number of online users is displayed on the login page of the system. When the number of users exceeds several hundred, the system starts to crawl and then crashes.

Some teachers wake up in the early hours of the morning or stay up late at night to complete the data entry, when there are fewer users online. They are obviously tired the following day and are unable to focus on teaching.

The system needs to be upgraded in terms of memory and processing capability, to handle the many thousands of simultaneous users.


System instability

QUOTE
Many times, the data already entered into the system goes missing after a crash and has to be keyed in all over again. My spouse has had that experience no less than four times! Imagine the teachers’ frustration and the time wasted. The system’s database needs to be looked into and replaced with a robust version that can handle high volumes of simultaneous transactions.


No data validation

QUOTE
The software is poorly written and does not validate information during data entry. This means that a simple mistake, for example, leaving the MyKad number of a student blank when an update is attempted, causes the system to crash with a cryptic error message that only an IT professional can understand. This causes the teacher to panic and start all over again.

Let me share with you that all first-year undergraduates in Computer Science are taught how to set up a student database, very similar to what this system is trying to achieve.

It is a great shock that such basic principles of software design such as data validation is not implemented. Changing the programme to validate the data and providing an online message to correct the data before updating will solve this issue.


Lack of security

QUOTE
The login page and subsequent pages are not secured as every web page is presented in “http:”. This means that the data transmitted by these web pages can be intercepted.

It presents a frightening security issue, especially since they are entering personal and sensitive students’ data via unsecured web pages.

At the very least, the site must be equipped with secure web pages, most often denoted by “https:” which encrypts the data, similar to what is being offered by all Internet banking sites (and even Facebook, if you choose the right security options).

I shudder to think of how much of our taxpayers’ money has been invested into this problematic system.

I hope that for the sake of my wife and thousands of other teachers and schoolchildren, the weaknesses of the system can be urgently looked into and corrected.

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Augus7
post Aug 15 2011, 03:15 PM


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hahaha, they started rage dy? about fking time. i just helped my mum key in monkey's result in SAPS. 1 keyboard almost broken by me...
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pikacu
post Aug 15 2011, 03:16 PM


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QUOTE(Augus7 @ Aug 15 2011, 03:15 PM)
hahaha, they started rage dy? about fking time. i just helped my mum key in monkey's result in SAPS. 1 keyboard almost broken by me...
*
+1

similar case
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brian12988
post Aug 15 2011, 03:19 PM


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i wonder which company did it....hmm.gif
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pikacu
post Aug 15 2011, 03:20 PM


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QUOTE(brian12988 @ Aug 15 2011, 03:19 PM)
i wonder which company did it....hmm.gif
*
tricube balaci my best bet
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s0uz1n
post Aug 15 2011, 03:20 PM


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+1

crap and waste of my 24hrs doing data key-in only.. ceh
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pehkay
post Aug 15 2011, 03:22 PM


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+1 typing it ... is hell ... cmon, a data-entry systems has a session timout of less than 5 mins ... what is this? A amateur project? biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by pehkay: Aug 15 2011, 03:22 PM
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MsGaijin
post Aug 15 2011, 03:23 PM


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What Polaris, you not foreveralone?
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TrueFalse
post Aug 15 2011, 03:25 PM


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I thought the system is on trial and after this they will reset all the data back to zero?
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ticke
post Aug 15 2011, 03:25 PM


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kerja separuh hari pun mau complain ka?
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s0uz1n
post Aug 15 2011, 03:36 PM


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wow, lg separuh hari krja tdo ka?
ur wrong bro. lg separuh hari lg la nk buat krja lain,
-> exercise book check, preparing tomorrow lesson material, writing daily lesson report, ----- times how many period lesson got (if tomorrow got 3 period, then everything times 3)
-> plus if got evening activities such as pengakap etc, won't it make the day more hectic?
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pikacu
post Aug 15 2011, 03:39 PM


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QUOTE(TrueFalse @ Aug 15 2011, 03:25 PM)
I thought the system is on trial and after this they will reset all the data back to zero?
*
its live already, all teacher ard msia need to do it
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Forgotten06
post Aug 15 2011, 03:45 PM


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QUOTE(Augus7 @ Aug 15 2011, 03:15 PM)
hahaha, they started rage dy? about fking time. i just helped my mum key in monkey's result in SAPS. 1 keyboard almost broken by me...
*
I feel u bro, me and my mum login at seperate computers to type different class... If server didnt crash then confirm got SQL error doh.gif
Mangkuk betuk SAPS ini
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ZerOne01
post Aug 15 2011, 03:48 PM


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luckily the moment they introduce this I was about to finish my job as guru ganti :3 so I filled it halfway
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billylks
post Aug 15 2011, 03:50 PM


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Ayam slowpoke, what is the system for aaa? From the article it only mentioned teachers needed to key marks, what marks, what exams/tests?
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Sethmaster
post Aug 15 2011, 03:52 PM


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QUOTE(Augus7 @ Aug 15 2011, 03:15 PM)
hahaha, they started rage dy? about fking time. i just helped my mum key in monkey's result in SAPS. 1 keyboard almost broken by me...
*
I feel you bro,

:brohug:
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ne0c0n
post Aug 15 2011, 03:52 PM


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now i know teacher also surf /k/
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samftrmd
post Aug 15 2011, 03:54 PM


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I don't know about schooling, but I heard that in Japan, school teachers have some sort of aids, who are training to be teachers to help them.
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ungka
post Aug 15 2011, 04:25 PM


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QUOTE(ticke @ Aug 15 2011, 03:25 PM)
kerja separuh hari pun mau complain ka?
*
lol'ed it's the most righteous thing to do to speak/comment things that you have no idea of. well done!!
hope you like to become a teacher in malaysia.
OR if you're already a teacher perhaps your passion is doing these clerical job.
or you're those headmasters or high rank person is it?


QUOTE(Forgotten06 @ Aug 15 2011, 03:45 PM)
I feel u bro, me and my mum login at seperate computers to type different class... If server didnt crash then confirm got SQL error doh.gif
Mangkuk betuk SAPS ini
*
i did 70% of that to help my wife too. i saw some php/sql junk on my screen few times.
lol should've capture the screen if i knew this SAPS will be hot topic to brag about.
wonder if data went in correctly.


QUOTE
wow, lg separuh hari krja tdo ka?
ur wrong bro. lg separuh hari lg la nk buat krja lain,
-> exercise book check, preparing tomorrow lesson material, writing daily lesson report, ----- times how many period lesson got (if tomorrow got 3 period, then everything times 3)
-> plus if got evening activities such as pengakap etc, won't it make the day more hectic?
agreed!!
teachers got more stuff to do, in general my wife more busy than me.
even those jon burden follow back home. and weekend too. (atleast i got my weekend peacefully)
no time for house chores. don't simply think teachers work half day goyang kaki half day.
cuti sekolah?? don't be so excited. they may be called back anytime. ask those that going back to school during school holiday.

teachers should be spending time to improve on teaching. so students get the benefits
since teachers were occupied with unnecessary burden, don't blame them if you need to send your kinds for tuition.
bad education management system. and some depends on school teachers will face more unnecessary event like below

imagine how teachers need to do a clerical job instead due to the hired clerical staff refused to do it.(say 'it's not a culture here') <-- not SAPS case. diff situation

***need to remember there are teachers who really passionate about teaching and feel happy about it. but education system (m'sia) ruined it.

***in some better-develop-country, teachers are really focus in teaching and prparing for a better class sessions. this is facts or rather wife's first hand experience.
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woopypooky
post Aug 15 2011, 04:46 PM


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QUOTE(ungka @ Aug 15 2011, 04:25 PM)
teachers got more stuff to do, in general my wife more busy than me.
even those jon burden follow back home. and weekend too. (atleast i got my weekend peacefully)
no time for house chores. don't simply think teachers work half day goyang kaki half day.
cuti sekolah?? don't be so excited. they may be called back anytime. ask those that going back to school during school holiday.

teachers should be spending time to improve on teaching. so students get the benefits
since teachers were occupied with unnecessary burden, don't blame them if you need to send your kinds for tuition.
bad education management system. and some depends on school teachers will face more unnecessary event like below

imagine how teachers need to do a clerical job instead due to the hired clerical staff refused to do it.(say 'it's not a culture here') <-- not SAPS case. diff situation

***need to remember there are teachers who really passionate about teaching and feel happy about it. but education system (m'sia) ruined it.

***in some better-develop-country, teachers are really focus in teaching and prparing for a better class sessions. this is facts or rather wife's first hand experience.
*
nonsense, my brother is gov school teacher and he is free as f uck.

how much times does it take to 'key-in' data actually?

45 students per class will take 30 minutes at most. Unless they are 45 years +++ who dunno use computer lol.

key in names and marks only, how long does it take for 45 names and 45 marks?

This post has been edited by woopypooky: Aug 15 2011, 04:48 PM
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hanieyf
post Aug 15 2011, 04:48 PM


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i wonder how much money was spend for that stupid system ?
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TrueFalse
post Aug 15 2011, 04:50 PM


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QUOTE(hanieyf @ Aug 15 2011, 04:48 PM)
i wonder how much money was spend for that stupid system ?
*
Why did you called it stupid?
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pikacu
post Aug 15 2011, 04:58 PM


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QUOTE(woopypooky @ Aug 15 2011, 04:46 PM)
nonsense, my brother is gov school teacher and he is free as f uck.
*
free as f***? teach retarded gov school can lar. or primary kids ..zzzzzzz

QUOTE(TrueFalse @ Aug 15 2011, 04:50 PM)
Why did you called it stupid?
*
system that can handle <100 users per time, while govt asked all teachers at msia to use it. i dunno what's fit other than "stupid system".
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TrueFalse
post Aug 15 2011, 05:10 PM


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QUOTE(pikacu @ Aug 15 2011, 04:58 PM)
system that can handle <100 users per time, while govt asked all teachers at msia to use it. i dunno what's fit other than "stupid system".
*
He made it sound like the whole project is a stupid waste of money.
I don't see why having server load issues and lack of redundancy is a 'stupid system'.

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pikacu
post Aug 15 2011, 05:14 PM


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QUOTE(TrueFalse @ Aug 15 2011, 05:10 PM)
He made it sound like the whole project is a stupid waste of money.
*
if you have any govt teacher contact (that involves in PMR/SPM paper)...u will find that statement make some sense..

every year new system..


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brian12988
post Aug 15 2011, 05:14 PM


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QUOTE(hanieyf @ Aug 15 2011, 04:48 PM)
i wonder how much money was spend for that stupid system ?
*
not that its a stupid system but the company that did it is stupid... nod.gif
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mumeichan
post Aug 15 2011, 05:15 PM


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Macamla anak murid tu ada berjuta juta org. Sampai seminggu nak masuk data. Cikgu aku kat skola dulu pun tak de komplen.
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TrueFalse
post Aug 15 2011, 05:15 PM


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QUOTE(pikacu @ Aug 15 2011, 05:14 PM)
if you have any govt teacher contact (that involves in PMR/SPM paper)...u will find that statement make some sense..
every year new system..
*
Oh my... they going to use the same system for PMR/SPM papers? shocking.gif
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pikacu
post Aug 15 2011, 05:18 PM


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QUOTE(TrueFalse @ Aug 15 2011, 05:15 PM)
Oh my... they going to use the same system for PMR/SPM papers? shocking.gif
*
not that sure yet, will see when pmr/spm coming later

i think this system maybe use for trials result, don't quote me on this, not too sure yet

This post has been edited by pikacu: Aug 15 2011, 05:19 PM
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jesseclane
post Aug 15 2011, 05:20 PM


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QUOTE(pehkay @ Aug 15 2011, 03:22 PM)
+1 typing it ... is hell ... cmon, a data-entry systems has a session timout of less than 5 mins ... what is this? A amateur project? biggrin.gif
*
I bet uitm student's project tongue.gif
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ichi_24
post Aug 15 2011, 05:26 PM


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oh people think being teacher is easy as f***? wait till you teach secondary school, especially those sbp, technical and vocational school

lagi f*** was given cause my mother former teacher and now lecturer, all student is f**** shit

wth with kids nowadays, totally retard like 1000% more than our generation usually does
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pikacu
post Aug 15 2011, 05:27 PM


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QUOTE(ichi_24 @ Aug 15 2011, 05:26 PM)
oh people think being teacher is easy as f***? wait till you teach secondary school, especially those sbp, technical and vocational school

lagi f*** was given cause my mother former teacher and now lecturer, all student is f**** shit

wth with kids nowadays, totally retard like 1000% more than our generation usually does
*
saya faham perasaan itu abang.

my mom's teacher too. tinggi 5
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hazardcradle
post Aug 15 2011, 05:27 PM


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QUOTE(woopypooky @ Aug 15 2011, 04:46 PM)
nonsense, my brother is gov school teacher and he is free as f uck.

how much times does it take to 'key-in' data actually?

45 students per class will take 30 minutes at most. Unless they are 45 years +++ who dunno use computer lol.

key in names and marks only, how long does it take for 45 names and 45 marks?
*
you try key in la see you rage or not. my sister is a teacher and she has to key-in at midnight to prevent server crash.
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inoitu
post Aug 15 2011, 05:28 PM


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Dont tink the company that did it is stupid, the ones who approved to buy it, is hopeless. Heard the top brass just took others idea and implemented it without much fuss. Expenditure? Mana ada? Simpan sendiri.
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tevez balotelli dzeko
post Aug 15 2011, 06:09 PM


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memang banyak macam cikgu2 nih. ngajar dlm kelas pon cam malas jer. tulis nota suruh org salin. mad.gif

Atau duduk depan kelas dan suruh murid2 buat 'kerja sendiri' tapi 'jgn bising'. rclxub.gif

antara sume kaki dan tangan kerajaan, gaji dier je yg naik, tak tengok dier bising pon.


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ungka
post Aug 15 2011, 07:37 PM


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lol'ed..
some say nonsense.. yet for believing another person's story (brother)

to me such poser got no rights to say such words unless experienced it yourself. for those that didn't face any issue good for you then you're lucky.

bottom line is
as for the title (SAPS), i did verify that the system worth the complaint.

and for those that think teacher is easy job i wold say: (diff topic d, but related)
1. either you know nothing bout that. so get down from your high-horse and stop replying as if you're the 'i-knoe-everything'
2. telling on other people experince (e.g old-fart father/broter/sister) which is about to retire, or don't directly involve in such things perhaps
3. lucky as f**k (can't help using woopypooky's style haha, found it's realy appropriate since it's first use)
4. if you have tendency to still share item #2, check back if your brother/sister/etc is teaching PJ or Seni for example. coz diff subject got diff things going on.
5. and kindly check what type of teacher upon sharing session. (did he/she become a teacher by heart/force/desperate(got no job,last resort)

enough with the list. i believe forumers capable to brain such stuff themselves, especially those that really into forums (a.k.a seniors)
this is no insult but if one really do forum with brain, i expect to see some credible reply, something that depict you're no short-brainer

well something worth to ponder upon:
wisely consider possible situation when throwing some response (if not all) atleast don't just take a brother's/sister's testimony and swallow it as if one got no brain to weigh and conside.
be wise.
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visionary1993
post Aug 15 2011, 07:54 PM


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the guy's brother is just one lazy snob and i believe just like the poster himself. Lazy as F**d!
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ticke
post Aug 15 2011, 08:20 PM


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QUOTE(s0uz1n @ Aug 15 2011, 03:36 PM)
wow, lg separuh hari krja tdo ka?
ur wrong bro. lg separuh hari lg la nk buat krja lain,
-> exercise book check, preparing tomorrow lesson material, writing daily lesson report, ----- times how many period lesson got (if tomorrow got 3 period, then everything times 3)
-> plus if got evening activities such as pengakap etc, won't it make the day more hectic?
*
QUOTE(ungka @ Aug 15 2011, 04:25 PM)
lol'ed it's the most righteous thing to do to speak/comment things that you have no idea of. well done!!
hope you like to become a teacher in malaysia.
OR if you're already a teacher perhaps your passion is doing these clerical job.
or you're those headmasters or high rank person is it?
i did 70% of that to help my wife too. i saw some php/sql junk on my screen few times.
lol should've capture the screen if i knew this SAPS will be hot topic to brag about.
wonder if data went in correctly.
agreed!!
teachers got more stuff to do, in general my wife more busy than me.
even those jon burden follow back home. and weekend too. (atleast i got my weekend peacefully)
no time for house chores. don't simply think teachers work half day goyang kaki half day.
cuti sekolah?? don't be so excited. they may be called back anytime. ask those that going back to school during school holiday.

teachers should be spending time to improve on teaching. so students get the benefits
since teachers were occupied with unnecessary burden, don't blame them if you need to send your kinds for tuition.
bad education management system. and some depends on school teachers will face more unnecessary event like below

imagine how teachers need to do a clerical job instead due to the hired clerical staff refused to do it.(say 'it's not a culture here') <-- not SAPS case. diff situation

***need to remember there are teachers who really passionate about teaching and feel happy about it. but education system (m'sia) ruined it.

***in some better-develop-country, teachers are really focus in teaching and prparing for a better class sessions. this is facts or rather wife's first hand experience.
*
well obviously you're wife is not one of them or your wife simply having a bad time mgmt. how diff. is it from existing writing progress of the student in you report book? It's not like the whole period you will be teaching, and there's time/break in between. got time then, some teachers just prefer to chit chat and waste that precious time. if you know how to teach, you would have planned ahead...not preparing for tomorrow's lesson what not. i do admit system develop for Gov. tends to give f**ked up service, if not most of the time.
as if anyother job doesn't require u to do clerical job from time to time, please...

yet some of them manage to get some time to do private tuition? WT*? how do explains that? a load of b/s. and hello, teachers has most holidays than any other profession. called for a few days? few hours maybe, or one two days. heck sometimes they even enjoy themselves...so, not a bad thing.
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themanwithnoname
post Aug 15 2011, 08:27 PM


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now at schools even got Cikgu Data already sweat.gif
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myasiahobby
post Aug 15 2011, 08:29 PM


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QUOTE(ticke @ Aug 15 2011, 03:25 PM)
kerja separuh hari pun mau complain ka?
*
If u know nothing please be quiet. No one say u r mute if u don't talk.....
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post Aug 15 2011, 08:31 PM


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Selamat berjuang cikgu cikgu semua biggrin.gif
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blackorange
post Aug 15 2011, 08:33 PM


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i write in notepad and copy paste to the system.. easy
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kingster113
post Aug 15 2011, 08:33 PM


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The Ministry should just spend the money on Cloud solution instead. Which is overall cheaper and marginally lower maintenance cost. But oh wait, IT guys in gov dep all sucks and lazy like fark.
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refugeez86
post Aug 15 2011, 08:51 PM


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actually in school already used SAPR16 system to key in marks.. it works fine...

but somehow got i duno who is fuken retard create another new online system...

im not rage if this new system works fine...

oh ya in JB all teacher need to key in marks in SAPS and again key in using SAPR... grr!!
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ungka
post Aug 15 2011, 10:14 PM


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QUOTE(ticke @ Aug 15 2011, 08:20 PM)
well obviously you're wife is not one of them or your wife simply having a bad time mgmt. how diff. is it from existing writing progress of the student in you report book? It's not like the whole period you will be teaching, and there's time/break in between. got time then, some teachers just prefer to chit chat and waste that precious time. if you know how to teach, you would have planned ahead...not preparing for tomorrow's lesson what not. i do admit system develop for Gov. tends to give f**ked up service, if not most of the time.
as if anyother job doesn't require u to do clerical job from time to time, please...
wow! nice
perhaps i would love to agree my wife got bad time management as you say so you could atleast feel better. loléd
again.. how hard you try to jump onto other's shoes, you may not experience the same ( i assume the poster is kind enough to do so)
well, if the intention to read is to reply, given any condition one could be able to simply reply. even no brainer could do.

maybe i will change prepare for tomorrow's lesson to next-week's lesson. still you need time to execute it.
is this not considered plan ahead? loléd

so i would love to see how it's fair to call a bad time mgmt while one is surviving in a school that full of seniority, prejudice, bad-mouthing, lazy bump, etc. that push stuff and orders onto others as they like.
keeping ur underlings busy all the time, unnecessary/unproductive task/matters?

see some have family,kids and personal stuff too. (if i want to exaggerate, say, critical-illness-kid)
even that most of is taken away.. (not 24/7 off course and don't be stupid to assume every single day for the whole year) but it's frequent enough to be bragged upon.

well most important is, this is not everyone/every school. thats why as i mention for those didn't experience it.. kindly get you brain to think do i have rights to say so.


QUOTE
as if another job doesn't require clerical job

well not to say no at all, but again when the clerical job is necessary, it'll minimal and importantly not stupid
if i were to elaborate, repetitive things that inefficient and wasting time.


QUOTE
yet some of them manage to get some time to do private tuition? WT*? how do explains that? a load of b/s. and hello, teachers has most holidays than any other profession. called for a few days? few hours maybe, or one two days. heck sometimes they even enjoy themselves...so, not a bad thing.
*
not in my wife's case. to her if she got time to do tuition, why don't just put all the energy during class.
gov paid to do your job.. yet take it lightly and gain extra outside.
(no hard feeling to those that provide tuition coz i don't say all)
OR is it almost impossible to do so, due to so many distraction and unnecessary items???

like i mention, not all teacher/school experience the same thing.
some may have been lucky to have things run smoothly at their end. well very good then
i'm talking about my wife and her school

and again for a person to do anything during their personal time, that's their personal issue.
i won't be telling on other's since i have no idea on what they've gone thru.
the point is when most of your personal time taken by something that is not supposed to be in the job scope but it is there. the sad part, it's a junk stuff that have little in benefits but consumed the time most.

and a very important key is passion. well i would not say those that do tuition, work halfhearted, or simply don't care (real example: coming to school read motivational book don't care about class dreaming to be success in diff field)
got no passion for teaching.
but their act could at least show.

talking about free time? chit chat.. loléd really should check man.
as i like to repeat that is typical perhaps it's just typical too that you bring that up.
but consider a scenario for one that assigned 30 period per week.
well exercise is on teacher, some give some don't give even if they do give some don't really mark it.
but what's the point then?
if one really want to give enough exercise, mark it in timely manner, well i guess not only chit chat, perhaps don't have rooms to pee loléd

**by right work shouldn't be brought home. (only applicable to me, if one feel otherwise then please do so) my company paid for office hour, no matter how passionate i am, after office hour is personal time. work hard during the given time. but again it's our own choice. but this can't be practice onto my wife, just can't. and somebody so high and mighty say 'bad time mgmt'

again the issue is SAPS, well i just side track with how bad education-system-management being practiced.
please see the word management. concerns is no specialization made and many unnecessary things imposed
(changing system every year etc. those causing redundant stupid task to be done)
it could be at school level/ppd/jpn/kpm etc.







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kaffra
post Aug 15 2011, 10:20 PM


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^too long to read, but looks like mostly putting blame on everyone else and the work atmosphere and nothing wrong on your/yourwifes side.
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alwiser
post Aug 15 2011, 10:20 PM


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My mom is a teacher she said,

SAPS = Saya Amat Pening Sekali
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s0uz1n
post Aug 15 2011, 10:37 PM


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wow. a lot of argument there.
sure, some teacher got lucky and end up with a lot of free time, got nothing to do but chit chat even some got time to do their "part time job". i really agree, its true. but.....
there are also got some teacher who are not that lucky, got to do all the work there is. from teaching to office work.

so, there u are. different teacher experience different situation in different places. so, don't get fired up ok? cheers.

i for one wouldn't mind do extra job, for the sake of my pupils. its just that if they want me to key-in this SAPS, they better had the on9 app running smooth. even now, i'm doing i-Nilam(yet another gov edu on9 app) and it's quite lagging. hmm...
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acam2812
post Aug 15 2011, 10:47 PM


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most of MOE projects are for chronies
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inoitu
post Aug 17 2011, 07:05 PM


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Heard that no courses or training given for that exercise?
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e36.hartge
post Aug 17 2011, 08:24 PM


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QUOTE(kingster113 @ Aug 15 2011, 08:33 PM)
The Ministry should just spend the money on Cloud solution instead. Which is overall cheaper and marginally lower maintenance cost. But oh wait, IT guys in gov dep all sucks and lazy like fark.
*
cloud solution only suitable for non-confidential stuffs

for confidential stuffs, no way cloud solution should be implemented

u got some example of any international top10 companies using cloud solution(sharing computing resources from anonymous PCs)?NO
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