To drive a 600 ohm headphone using E9K is a bit overrated it
Even driving a 250ohm dt880 to me, it's merely pass the listenable stage if compare to its full potential.
But again, it is very subjective. as long as you are happy with it

And Ya, NO EQ
If someone really like to alter the sound so much, get yourself a tube amp or dac and start tube rolling. Get the bass and treble or whatever sound signature you want.
And also play with cables, interconnects, adapters, receptacles, change fuse and what so ever. Do it in a more natural way.

This post has been edited by liquidgal: Aug 31 2014, 02:44 AM

"Volume Control on DAC itself". Most of the DAC will have fixed volume for line out. Volume control is usually for the build in headphone amp or pre-amp.
I guess your Edifier should be an active speaker. M20 and M50 is also active speaker with volume control. So why do you still need volume control on DAC?
Some speaker with only build in power amp, so they need DAC with pre-amp function for volume control purpose. But if you add in pre-amp to speaker that already has build pre-amp and power amp, it will be double amping. If you really don't mind, you can still try it out though.

For your budget, you can consider Aune X1 Pro. It's a desktop DAC with build in headphone amp and comes with pre-amp function. It somehow meet your requirement on the volume control on dac but I don't recommend using with active speaker that already has build in pre-amp. It's more to DAC, the headphone amp is more like a complimentary function, to drive big cans like HD600, still not bad.
It's the cheapest Dac that I found so far that can natively decode DSD. It has 3 input, usb input, coaxial and optical which allows you to connect to computer, tv, cd player or other digital device that has the 3 output mentioned.
Sound signature wise, slightly warm and clean. Overall sound signature is better than its little brother Aune T1 mk2. But if you prefer warmer sound, then you can also consider T1 MK2.

http://pub.hifidiy.net/index.php?m=content...&catid=189&id=2

If you have budget slightly over RM1K, can also consider Matrix new mini i DAC. It is warm and analogue sound dac with strong and full music body.


Below RM1K, options for tube amp is very limited. So far the options in Malaysia that I know of, bravo ocean and little dot mk3. I recommend ocean with tube rolling than little dot mk3.
If you really want a tube amp for he400, I do suggest to up your budget a little bit to RM1K+. Can consider Musical Paradise MP301 MK3. It has build in speaker amp and headphone amp. The sound quality is quite decent and is almost impossible for you to find another tube amp with both speaker amp and headphone amp at this price.
Sound signature wise, it's tube-ish and sweet sound, more to mids and treble, not a thick sound amp.

hmm, I guess it's more like a problem of your computer sound card or speakers. DAC line out usually won't be too loud and not likely to have channel imbalance.
Double amping is only when you switch on the pre amp function. Using DAC only won't be double amping.
Actually next time when you are choosing DAC, can check out whether the unit is more to dac or amp. In the market, most of the dac comes with headphone amp. Sometimes headphone amp is just like a complimentary which you can just ignore it if you don't need it.

Take Yulong DA8 for example, the RM4K dac is really good at DAC. Many buy it for speakers as well. The build in amp, can't even drive hd600 well.
Pure DAC nowadays is rare, though you can still find it in the market. But if limit your options to pure dac, you will miss out lots of good DACs.

Spec is really needed to confirm whether the amp is suitable for your speaker actually.
If your speaker is 8ohm and sensitivity is at least 87db, and can up budget a little bit to slightly over RM1K, Musical Paradise MP301 MK3 is really a good option. If your speaker is 4ohm, sensitivity is best to be at least <no spam links>.
It's a tube speaker amp that comes with headphone amp. Though it's more to speaker amp but the headphone is also quite good. For the price, is really hard for you to find another similar tube amp.

If your budget must be below RM1K, can try Aune X2 speaker amp with bluetooth (RM4XX), or Topping T60 RM6XX. Again, has to check your speaker spec first to see if they match.
Heard that bravo audio is going to release new tube amp for speaker in these 2 months time but not sure about the price and specifications yet.

HD580 was the flagship in the past before the release of hd600, hd650 and hd800. It won't be easier to drive than hd600 and hd650. This headphone has very high potential. It definitely worth for using pure desktop amp around RM2-3K to drive it.
Around RM500+, to get a listenable sound quality, you can consider Aune T1 MK2 Tube DAC with solid state headphone amp. It's more to DAC but the build in amp also not bad, much stronger than MK1. I tested it with hd600 and hd650, the sound is slightly warm, tube-ish with good surrounding, sound stage and details are quite decent for the price.

If you can up your budget to RM800+-900, can consider Audio-GD NFB-15. It's a solid state dac cum amp. Both dac and amp is equally strong. I have tested several audio-gd products. They have very strong output power and driving ability.

Can check out the spec for NFB-15.
http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/N.../NFB15.32EN.htm
Output power -Only for headphone.
3500mW/25 ohm
1800mW/50 ohm
900mW/100 ohm
300mW/300 ohm
150mW/600 ohm

I also tested it with HD600. It really surprise me a lot with the price. Hardly believe the sound is from a RM900 dac cum amp. The sound is with strong music body, slightly thick and dark, solid, steady and accurate sound. NFB-15 is using dac chip WM8741, the sound is more musical than ES9018 (NFB 11). NFB11 is more technical sound.

Another good thing, Audio-GD is famous of being generous in using good materials for production and the design of the inner structure is very complex.
Check out the inner look of the device:

Actually both the dac and amp that you are using is quite bottle neck for HD800. It's a very good headphone but not easy to drive and play well. This headphone, a lot of headfi-ers use dac and amp that are double or triple of the price of the headphone, and not necessary get a good sound.

For now, if you have limited budget, you can try to upgrade your amp first. Schiit Lyr is a quite decent choice. I auditioned Lyr 1 before, it is very powerful, with strong dynamic and punchy. I believe Lyr 2 will have a good performance as well.
For budget around RM2K+, you can consider Audio-GD Precision 1. It has very strong output power, sound signature is slightly dark, steady, and accurate with strong music body. Sound is thicker than Lyr. It also comes with integrated amp for speaker.

Can check out the specs for Precision 1:
Output for speakers
90W @ 8ohm
170W @ 4ohm

Output for headphone
( High volume mode)
　
22W @ 25 ohm
16W @ 40 ohm
7000mW @ 100 ohm
2300mW @ 300 ohm
1150mW @ 600 ohm
　
To me, the amp at this range pairing with HD800 is not bad. But there is still room for improvement. I won't say they fully unleash the potential.
A better choice that known as a good combo with HD800 would be Woo Audio WA22. Singapore AV One should have demo unit for it. Of course there are still a lot of good amps that you can consider in the future like RSA and so on.

This really depends on your budget and whether going for desktop or portable. HD650 definitely needs amp to drive.

For budget portable amp, can consider Cayin C5.
Its sound signature is warm, musical with strong music body which makes it sound very 3D. It gives you good surrounding and warm ambient like a tube amp. Sound stage is quite wide open. Very accurate sounding and close to live sound to me. Driving power is quite strong which able to drive HD650 to a healthy stage.

Budget desktop amp, can consider Bravo Ocean. With stock tube, the sound is a little too aggressive, forward and a bit rough. I do suggest for upgrading to vintage tubes. The difference is day and night to me. Sound signature wise, it's very typical US sound with strong punch and dynamic, might be a bit dry and bright for certain headphones, but it's a good pair with Sennheiser.

For mid range, can consider La figaro 332S and La figaro 339.
La Figaro 339 is so far the amp with the widest sound stage that I have ever auditioned.
Very good matching with Sennheiser. The amps were being designed using Sennehiser as reference headphones.
Sound wise, warm and tube-ish, good surrounding, strong dynamic and music body. Technicality strong in terms of details, separation and positioning. They have very high potential for upgrade when changing cables and tube rolling.

339 has much larger sound stage than 332S, details richer, cleaner and brighter, stronger output power which pairs well with hd800 as well. 332S wise has smaller sound stage, mids thicker, more punchy bass, and overall more focus.
339 is more like a panoramic photo which you can see a full view clearly, 332S wise is more like a close up photo which cover smaller area but more focus and the imaging is more outstanding.


Budget desktop amp, can consider Bravo Ocean. With stock tube, the sound is a little too aggressive, forward and a bit rough. I do suggest for upgrading to vintage tubes. The difference is day and night to me. Sound signature wise, it's very typical US sound with strong punch and dynamic, might be a bit dry and bright for certain headphones. This can be adjusted through tube rolling.


I actually recommend you to get Aune T1 or a better DAC first instead. Even if you upgrade in the future, pairing with pure amp that is RM1K+ to RM2K, you won't find Aune T1 bottleneck. It's more to DAC though the amp is already not bad especially on MK2.
DAC determines the quality of the sound signal that you feed the amp and headphones. UD100 is quite entry level for DAC. C5 no doubt can help to improve the sound quality but the potential will be restricted if the source is not good enough.
Since both of your headphone and IEM are not very hard to drive, I do recommend focus on your DAC first. Can also upgrade for a better headphone in the future.
Besides that, Cayin C5 won't help for your speaker. It's a headphone amp. You need a DAC to connect to your active speaker.


For beyer COP, I do expect the sound won't be too good if driving using E07K. COP no doubt is a portable headphone with low impedance. You can easily get the volume, but you need to amp it to get a good sound. Not really that hard to drive but at least a more proper amp.
If not drive well, COP will sound a bit muddy, music body not very solid, mids very empty, bass very loose. I suggest getting an amp or dac/amp that is with good surrounding, full and rich in mids.
If have chance, can try this combo Aune T1 MK2 + Cayin C5 + COP. Best sounding COP that I have ever heard, at least to my favour. Of course higher range desktop amp can give it higher performance. But I'm talking about the timbre, they match perfectly. COP is crystal clear with very good details, wide open with warm ambient and very good surrounding. Music body is strong and full.

Cayin C6 is a portable DAC cum amp. Usually the DAC part is stronger for portable DAC cum amp and DAP.
Cayin C5 is definitely much stronger at the amp part as compare to C6.

As a portable unit, C5 does a good job in driving big cans at this price range. The sound is quite healthy and enjoyable.
The performance could be better if using desktop amp.
I suggest you to keep your Cayin C5 and pair it with a DAC. Any other amps that with lower performance may not give you the pleasant sound as DT880 is really not easy to drive well.

This headphone is really not easy to handle and drive well. I do suggest you to up budget a little bit and get Aune T1 MK2 tube DAC cum amp. It's more to DAC, the build in amp is also not bad pairing with big cans.
To release the potential of your headphone, you can consider keeping the Aune T1 and upgrade to RM1K+ desktop amp in the future such as Matrix M stage, Laigaro 332S, Aune S2, Musical Pradise MP301 MK3 and so on. You won't find it (T1) bottleneck even pairing with RM2K+ amp.

There are lots of options depending on your budget. Just grab at least an audio level DAC or dap. Entry level gadget such as Fiio X1, E07K, E18, Audio quest dragonfly, Aune T1 mk2 and so on.

I actually suggest you to change player instead of buying an amp. Fiio X1 is indeed not bad, it's quite England sound to me, focus more on the mids, not so much expansion on treble and bass. It does have bass but loosen and not solid type. I also audition TTPOD whole series before. They are good IEMs which good clarity and with good bass. They are not hard to drive. If you want to maintain the sound signature and get bass out of it, I suggest you to go for Fiio X3 instead.

Yulong DA8 is actually more on DAC. The build in amp can't really drive headphone like HD600 or K701. Even a RM500+ Cayin C5 portable amp is better than it. So I don't suggest using it as a DAC cum amp.

But it is indeed a very good DAC. It has balance line out for DAC. To get the whole potential out of it, you should pair it with a decent desktop amp.
If you want a full balance system, then can get a full balance amp. But that might be over your budget.

One of the best combinations I have for HD600 is Yulong DA8 + Lafigaro 339 with upgraded tubes. (total budget around RM7K, excluding upgraded power cord, usb cable, rca cable and receptacles). Lafigaro amp is single ended, but with widest sound stage that I ever heard even compare to higher range amp. It has the typical tube amp sound, warm and rich with good ambience, with good dynamic as well. HD600 sounds very open, detailed, and musical, which makes lafigaro stands out from the rest for HD600.

You can also consider getting their brothers, D200 + Lafigaro 332S. D200 also has balance output and support DSD.
Yulong D200 is more direct sounding and have strong punch at bass compare to DA8. DA8 has wider sound stage, smoother and more musical. Both are clean, neutral, refined, airy.
Other DAC at around the same range, you can also consider Aune S16 with use the latest DAC chip AK4495S from AKM and Matrix mini i pro.
S16 has a stronger build in amp among the rest and can last for a while as a DAC cum amp. But still can't compare to a pure amp.
Matrix mini i pro wise, has very analogue sound, smooth and more on the mids.

If you prefer a DAC cum amp with balance system, I suggest you to consider Audio-GD NFB28. All the models of Audio-GD with ES9018 DAC chip supports DSD, so you can check them out. Audio-GD always has very strong output power for headphones.

It's thick with slightly dark background, sound stage is moderately wide but with good depth, accurate with good punch. What I like Audio-GDs the most is that, music becomes so lively, every single track is like listening to a live concert which makes it so special from the others. I was confused and getting headache when trying to mix and match for my Master 9. My doubt is all resolved until I manage to audition Master 7 + Master 9 combo. So REAL!
It's not a perfect system that emphasize on every technical parts of the sound. But it's definitely a system with strong character, special, charming and so musical.
That doesn't mean it doesn't have good details or separation. It just doesn't push them to your face.

This post has been edited by liquidgal: Feb 17 2015, 10:44 AM

Thanks ya.

Specs is always for reference only. Even if it can give you volume, doesn't mean it can really drive. The build in amp of da8 is just a complimentary. Main character is the dac.
But if you want to spend your budget on getting a good dac first, you can consider using da8 as dac and x1 pro as amp for the mean time. Both build in amp are not strong, x1 pro amp should be slightly stronger.
You can compare yourself for these 2 gadgets.

Aune s16 is indeed pretty good but it is around the same range with d200.

For strong driving power, smooth and musical sound, I recommend you to go for Aune B1 class a descrete amp. The sound signature is warm, refined and clean, smoother and very analogue sound.

The 2 c5 and e12 is more to the bright side and thinner music body. Cayin c5 should hav3 stronger driving power than e12. Jds c5 wise, I'm not so sure. O2 wise is darker treble which might not benefit HD650 that has dark treble.

All depends on what kind of sound that you like. You may want to audition them before making decision.

Cayin c5 is good for your budget and requirement. It's clean, warm, to the bright side and direct sound.
If you can up your budget a bit and prefer a richer sound, I suggest you to go for Aune b1.

First of all, depends on which part is more important to you.
Also you are using the headphone amp to drive which headphone? Do you need a strong amp or just a normal headphone amp?

There are a lot of DAC with headphone amp and Pre amp. But depending on your budget, sound signature that you prefer and music genre that you listen to.
Budget one like Aune x1 pro DSD. Higher range matrix new mini I, mini I pro and so on.

They support DSD decoding, but doesn't mean that you must use it to play DSD files only. Many buy them only for playing flac actually.
Also high resoution doesn't make the dac better than other DAC that doesn't support.
Just like Musical Paradise MP-D1 MK2 which doesn't support DSD is a much better DAC than Aune X1 pro DSD.
But anyway, since you are confident with ODAC, can go ahead to try it ya.

For these two headphones, if you plan to go for portable, can really consider Cayin C5. It's more to the warm and bright side with strong driving power. Tested with most of the big cans and able to drive to a listenable stage.
If you can up your budget a little bit more, can consider Aune B1 class A discrete component amp. It's very analogue sound, smooth, warm, and musical. Overall performance is better than C5, able to drive the headphones openly with good dynamic. Its reference headphone is Sennheiser HD650. So not really a problem for driving big cans. Of course we can't expect it to compare with the pure desktop amp at the same price range.

For desktop amp, can consider Bravo Ocean tube amp. Cheap and with strong output power. Stock tube is a bit rough, forward and aggressive though. Can consider upgrading the tube to some vintage one. Recommend RCA 5963.

If can top up to 500+ can consider Fiio E18. Support otg (android).
Driving power not very strong but enough for low impendance headphones and iem.

Not sure how much is your budget and whether you are looking for portable dac amp or desktop unit is fine.

For entry level usb dac amp, can consider Fiio E10K.
Slightly higher range desktop unit, can consider Aune T1 MK2. It's a tube DAC with build in amp. You can still change the tube to adjust the sound signature and improve the quality of DAC.

For portable dac amp wise, can check out Fiio E17K & E18 if you wish to connect to phone. E17k is not officially support android though. Needs to download app