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> Why Govt don't want our students to go to Russia., The Story~ the developments~ the results (Serious Talk)

CyberSetan
post Jun 25 2011, 03:51 PM, updated 8y ago

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Just some interesting read to spice-up the day~ smile.gif

QUOTE(mines786 @ Dec 15 2010, 04:48 PM)
Why need to stop these universities? They are cheap because sponsored by their government and their studies are one of the best and very strict.
*
You obviously have not been following the developments/news/situations regarding medical education in Malaysia.
Do read the following, some of them I have put in a chronological order:


In the beginning.....

QUOTE
Sunday May 16, 2004

Russian medical options

BY KAREN CHAPMAN

WHEN it comes to studying medicine, Russia is probably not the first destination that comes to mind. Most students would cite the United Kingdom or even Australia as their top choice.

But before you dismiss Russia on grounds that you simply couldn't possibly master the Russian language or withstand those absolutely freezing temperatures, think again! Studying medicine in Russia might just turn out to be the best option for you if your financial resources are limited.

More and more Malaysians today are looking at Russia for a medical degree. Abdullah Mohd Salleh will tell you that studying medicine in Russia is not without its advantages His daughter, a fourth year medical student in Moscow Medical Academy, is not only under the tutelage of some of the finest doctors in the world but has also picked up the Russian language and is actively involved in student life....

Full Text: http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...5&sec=education (From May 2004)



» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «



» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «



Then...

QUOTE
Sunday November 9, 2008

From Russia with love


Story and photos by JACKSON CHUNG

A student gives his take on the “highs” and “lows” of studying and living in Russia.

IN the last couple of years, Russia has become a hotbed for young Malaysians who wish to pursue a career in medicine. Why? Plain and simple — its tuition fees are particularly low.

Four years ago, I was among 180 Malaysian students who entered the Russian State Medical University (RSMU) in Moscow, referred to as the Second Medical University by the locals. Although I was a freshman in a foreign university surrounded by people who spoke a language I’d only heard in movies, I was still excited to be here.

Since then, I have seen the true Russia which can be exciting to some, and not as interesting to others.

In my few years in Moscow, I’ve taken notice of Russians and their general way of life. If you were to ask me what I dislike most, I’d say it is their attitude.

Most Muscovites are terse, cold and glum, and they hardly smile. I suppose friendliness is not instilled in their culture, and that did not make me feel welcome.

Russia is a country with a lot of red tape. Most of the jobs in Moscow are still labour-intensive, which make the procedures even lengthier.

The attitude towards work here doesn’t help, either: working hours are short and employees seem to take tea breaks whenever they want!

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Full Text: http://thestar.com.my/education/story.asp?...4&sec=education (From Nov 2008)



Then comes....

Product of the System (POTS) Blog : Ukrainian CPR, Russian Life Support and the Boris Yeltsin Classification of Heart Failure


QUOTE
resuscitated a corpse today. Needless to say, I failed.

I pumped air and fluids and drugs into a man who was already dead.

Ahmad (not his real name) was stiff as a log by the time I was referred to him, more of a cadaver than a human being in distress.

It was not difficult to see why.

The first house officer was breaking his ribs instead of pumping his heart.

His counterpart had no experience in setting an intravenous cannula ever before.

The third of the trio simply stood by – an idle spectator in the midst of chaos. He should have brought some popcorn with him instead of a stethoscope.

The three had one thing in common – they graduated from medical schools in Ukraine and Russia.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


For full text - click the links below




PART- 1 : http://unwantedcitizen.blogspot.com/2009/0...upport-and.html
PART- 2 : http://unwantedcitizen.blogspot.com/2009/0...ort-and_24.html
PART- 3 : http://unwantedcitizen.blogspot.com/2009/0...ort-and_27.html
PART- 4: http://unwantedcitizen.blogspot.com/2009/0...upport-and.html
PART- 5: http://unwantedcitizen.blogspot.com/2009/0...upport-and.html

...and from the Malaysian Medical Resources:


QUOTE
Concern over Russia and Ukraine Med Schools

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «




and very recently:


QUOTE
Sunday December 12, 2010

Cleaning house

By RICHARD LIM and LOH FOON FONG
educate@thestar.com.my

Concerns persist regarding the quality of medical graduates and the Government is preparing a number of initiatives to finetune the system.

HOW hard is it to tell the difference between a sleeping patient and a cyanosed one who is on course to meet his maker?

Observing the simple rise and fall of one’s chest would be a good start. Checking for a pulse would be another and observing that the patient has turned blue is an absolute must.

However, the obvious did not happen in the case of one Pak Abu, who was deemed to be sleeping by house officers.

Fortunately, an observant doctor on his last rounds came into the picture and Pak Abu was resuscitated.

The three house officers in charge, who graduated from Russian and Ukrainian universities, were reprimanded for negligence, and things went from bad to worse when it was discovered that they did not know the basics of resuscitation or what an oxygen face mask was.

Full Text: http://thestar.com.my/education/story.asp?...4&sec=education






You see the development over the years...?

brows.gif brows.gif brows.gif

This post has been edited by CyberSetan: Jun 25 2011, 08:25 PM
johnkia
post Jun 25 2011, 03:56 PM

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my fren just went to russia for medical course sponsored by gov
CyberSetan
post Jun 25 2011, 03:57 PM

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QUOTE(johnkia @ Jun 25 2011, 03:56 PM)
my fren just went to russia for medical course sponsored by gov
*
Gomen contradicting itself? laugh.gif
lycaphim
post Jun 25 2011, 04:03 PM

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Neighbour's son went to Ukraine. Just as he came back the government de-recognized the university so he had to pass that test to become a doctor again, lol.
puppeto4
post Jun 25 2011, 04:08 PM

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So they started sending the students to Russia in mid 2000s and only after the first batch graduated that they realized the damages?
CyberSetan
post Jun 25 2011, 04:11 PM

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QUOTE(puppeto4 @ Jun 25 2011, 04:08 PM)
So they started sending the students to Russia in mid 2000s and only after the first batch graduated that they realized the damages?
*
Apparently so... poor judgment on Gomen's part... very cheap~! send first, think later~
super_evil_alien
post Jun 25 2011, 04:12 PM

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Some sked the students will return as KG agent
CyberSetan
post Jun 25 2011, 05:28 PM

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QUOTE(super_evil_alien @ Jun 25 2011, 04:12 PM)
Some sked the students will return as KG agent
*
Govt don't want poor performing students to kill Malaysians later when come back as "Dr"
StationMonkey
post Jun 25 2011, 05:36 PM

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My ex schoolmate studying med in russia.

See? Malaysians are so obsessed with oversea education till they don't even know about the uni qualities and stuff.
fix24311
post Jun 25 2011, 06:42 PM

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you forgot to quote this ts:
QUOTE
They were particularly concerned with medical graduates from Russia, Ukraine, Indonesia and India, whom they said lacked core knowledge and basic expertise in treating patients
http://thestar.com.my/education/story.asp?...4&sec=education

brows.gif brows.gif brows.gif

This post has been edited by fix24311: Jun 25 2011, 06:43 PM
hack3line
post Jun 25 2011, 06:51 PM

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medic i dunno who r the best in Malaysia.

but for nursing, my personal opinion, i think it is Twintech Damansara.
user posted image
kaffra
post Jun 25 2011, 06:55 PM

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stop all the sponsorships and offer better facilities in local Us. parents that want to send overseas can do so with a special govt loan.
RoyMcAvoy
post Jun 25 2011, 07:14 PM

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QUOTE(hack3line @ Jun 25 2011, 06:51 PM)
medic i dunno who r the best in Malaysia.

but for nursing, my personal opinion, i think it is Twintech Damansara.
user posted image
*
you must be joking or trolling...
FrostLance
post Jun 25 2011, 07:17 PM

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lol..russian/indonesian is pretty bad. Their HO's here are making so much problem. simple basic things also dunno..
I dont blame them. One of the russian HOs from Novgorod said 5 years in russia no clinical training at all..
FrostLance
post Jun 25 2011, 07:18 PM

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QUOTE(hack3line @ Jun 25 2011, 06:51 PM)
medic i dunno who r the best in Malaysia.

but for nursing, my personal opinion, i think it is Twintech Damansara.
user posted image
*
the best medic in malaysia still

IPTA - UM, UKM
IPTS - only IMU
hack3line
post Jun 25 2011, 07:24 PM

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QUOTE(RoyMcAvoy @ Jun 25 2011, 07:14 PM)
you must be joking or trolling...
*
because last time i was hospitalized.. i rike twintech nurse students so cute! blush.gif

and their female lecturer so friendly and can explain about antibiotic function in 2 straight hours in front of my bed without even refer to a book.. so pro.
iipohbee
post Jun 25 2011, 07:26 PM

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QUOTE(hack3line @ Jun 25 2011, 07:24 PM)
because last time i was hospitalized.. i rike twintech nurse students so cute!  blush.gif

and their female lecturer so friendly and can explain about antibiotic function in 2 straight hours in front of my bed without even refer to a book.. so pro.
*
Bleh pandai cakap saje.
Dia masuk jurusan salah patut jadi sales rep instead of nurse. cool2.gif
iipohbee
post Jun 25 2011, 07:28 PM

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QUOTE(CyberSetan @ Jun 25 2011, 03:51 PM)
Just some interesting read to spice-up the day~  smile.gif
You obviously have not been following the developments/news/situations regarding medical education in Malaysia.

...and from the Malaysian Medical Resources:
[/spoiler]
and very recently:
You see the development over the years...?

brows.gif  brows.gif  brows.gif
*
You forgot to mention Cairo University that's where the new Al Qaeda chief after Osama graduated from as a surgeon.

How many students Malaysia sent to Cairo University in Egypt every year?
rd33
post Jun 25 2011, 07:29 PM

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QUOTE(iipohbee @ Jun 25 2011, 07:28 PM)
You forgot to mention Cairo University that's where the new Al Qaeda chief after Osama graduated from as a surgeon.

How many students Malaysia sent to Cairo University in Egypt every year?
*
1 - 2. Maybe. Lol
izzizahari
post Jun 25 2011, 07:30 PM

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when ur working, u will see uni means nothing, yes, maybe their knowledge abit lacking compred to ireland, uk etc2... but main factor is attitude towards learning... why they become a doctor in 1st place
Styrroyds
post Jun 25 2011, 07:31 PM

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interesting read.

thanks TS
iipohbee
post Jun 25 2011, 07:34 PM

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QUOTE(rd33 @ Jun 25 2011, 07:29 PM)
1 - 2. Maybe. Lol
*
You sure?

How come so many flew back during the last Egypt riot event? hmm.gif
izzizahari
post Jun 25 2011, 07:39 PM

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i think the problem is parent are pushing their child to go for medic as its a sure shot career.

problem is when the child expect doctor life is awesome shiat like house or er, when the reality is, well......

be it from what uni, everyone will not know how to take abg, insert branula, proper cpr, pleural tap... all need practice and experience

if the HO is delusional with house, the he is doomed..
Styrroyds
post Jun 25 2011, 07:41 PM

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QUOTE(izzizahari @ Jun 25 2011, 07:39 PM)
i think the problem is parent are pushing their child to go for medic as its a sure shot career.

problem is when the child expect doctor life is awesome shiat like house or er, when the reality is, well......

be it from what uni, everyone will not know how to take abg, insert branula, proper cpr, pleural tap... all need practice and experience

if the HO is delusional with house, the he is doomed..
*
goes with anything actually

a lot of dumbfarks i know wanna study forensic science because they thought life is slick like in CSI

Zoom, zoom, zoom a little more... that's your murderer!
skater_noob922
post Jun 25 2011, 07:51 PM

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i wanna study computer coz i think u code code then voila..
can hack nasa and bom singapore
CyberSetan
post Jun 25 2011, 07:56 PM

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QUOTE(fix24311 @ Jun 25 2011, 06:42 PM)
you forgot to quote this ts:

brows.gif  brows.gif  brows.gif
*
You should listen to what the former Director General of health has to say first about India:


» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


"...emphasis on clinical training..." - Tan Sri Dr.Ismail Merican

this is some of the things learned in the 2nd year.~

That is why its better to send the students to India compared to Russia/Ukraine~
if they have more $$$ - UK/AUS/US~

This post has been edited by CyberSetan: Jun 25 2011, 08:05 PM
izzizahari
post Jun 25 2011, 08:04 PM

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nice to see how u performance compared to russian grad when u work since u downgrade them....

we brother should not downgrade each other. apatah lagi masih blom grad pun ptuih.
iipohbee
post Jun 25 2011, 08:09 PM

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QUOTE(Styrroyds @ Jun 25 2011, 07:41 PM)
goes with anything actually

a lot of dumbfarks i know wanna study forensic science because they thought life is slick like in CSI

Zoom, zoom, zoom a little more... that's your murderer!
*
Business courses are one of the most popular subjects now.

How come only a very few emerge successful when they graduate?

For everything there're sure to be winners and losers.


CyberSetan
post Jun 25 2011, 08:17 PM

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QUOTE(izzizahari @ Jun 25 2011, 08:04 PM)
nice to see how u performance compared to russian grad when u work since u downgrade them....

we brother should not downgrade each other. apatah lagi masih blom grad pun ptuih.
*
It is not me who is downgrading Russian graduates - read the first page carefully and assess the development over the years. Read everything there.
See how our Malaysian health care system evaluate them. See how our Malaysian doctors see and evaluate them.

It was a big mistake for the govt to send hundreds of JPA/MARA scholars to Russia/Ukraine to do medicine in the first place...
The Govt have failed to assess the quality of education there - as a result they are blaming the students for being incompetent instead of blaming itself for foolishly sending them there.

Now they've realized this mistake and have started sending future medical students elsewhere instead. They are sending some of the students to India and even set-up a USM branch in India to cater for Malaysian medical students...

This post has been edited by CyberSetan: Jun 25 2011, 08:52 PM
FrostLance
post Jun 25 2011, 09:40 PM

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QUOTE(izzizahari @ Jun 25 2011, 08:04 PM)
nice to see how u performance compared to russian grad when u work since u downgrade them....

we brother should not downgrade each other. apatah lagi masih blom grad pun ptuih.
*
You should see reports from MMC before backing them up. We have tons of incompetents right now. Those HOs couldnt even differentiate a sleeping patient and a cyanosis one.
I dont blame the students, the one needed blaming is the mushrooming of agents sending them to russian/indonesia university.. Most who are in russia ARE NOT EVEN EXPOSED TO CLINICAL TRAINING throughout the 5 years.


About attitude, your right about it, the thing is, most of them ive seen do not have these "want to learn" attitude. I dont mind their lack of knowledge, but most of them attitude so bad, see many of them.
http://pagalavan.com/2011/06/19/future-of-...lthcare-part-1/

This is whats currently happening now, and most of them are with these attitudes

QUOTE
# case 1

patient in hypovolemia with hypotension..

MO: pls do fluid resuscitation..

HO doesn’t know what fluid resuscitation is, and malu (shy shy la) to ask the MO.. but he remembers resuscitation is something to do with CPR (cadiopulmonary resuscitation).. so he performs chest compression in a CONSCIOUS patient, causing respiratory distress to the patient, and the patient is looking at him in one kind.. and the smokes come out from the MO’s head..

deserved for HO paling tukul award.. (this HO graduated from Russia, recipient of scholarship from a famous local body)..

# case 2

vital signs stable on a dead body..

the HO did his evening round in the acute bay.. one of the patients was intubated due to head injury.. the family members told him the body became stiff 2 hours ago.. but the monitor still showing pulse rate (patient on ionotropes).. so he documented “patient GCS remains poor, vital signs stable, continue the same management”.. huh..????? how to become a doctor even he/she can’t even differentiate between LIFE and DEATH..????? why do they want to spend the parents and tax payers money to study medicine but the medical knowledge is lousier than a layman..?????

deserved for HO otak ketam award.. (again, this is another HO graduated from Russia)..

# case 3

for MO to resus patient..

i was attending a patient in the female surgical ward..

suddenly another patient in the same ward collapsed and desaturated.. the nurses were shouting and called the surgical house officer who was sitting at the counter doing nothing at that time to attend the patient.. he walked slowly to the bed of that patient but did not examine the patient, he just pointed his finger toward me “neh, doktor dekat sana”.. huh????? what type of houseman is this..????? asking a MO to attend a collapsed patient without examining and doing the initial resuscitation works..?????

deserved for HO ubi kentang award.. (this HO graduated from a local public university, one of the three oldest medical schools in this country)..

# case 4

for MO to insert branula..

during my housemanship time in 2006, when we have problem in inserting a branula, we NEVER called our MO for help (except for neonates).. we would call our senior houseman (most of the time, the captain) to help us to insert the branula.. during my second housemanship posting, i started to insert the femoral line and i did my toes amputation for diabetic patients ALONE while my MO was sleeping the whole night.. i did my first peritoneal dialysis together with my houseman friends without the presence of our MO when i was in the medical posting.. but now, what types of procedures that a houseman can perform..???

recently, during my busy oncall day, suddenly the nurse called me up “doktor, tolong insert branula, houseman dah cuba 2 kali tapi tak dapat”.. huh??? why can’t the houseman call me directly if he/she cannot get the line?? just left the patient and ordered the nurse to call me..?? what tpye of attitude is this..?? no responsibility at all.. when i went to see the patient, i found the vein of the patient was BIGGER than the vein on the manikin..!!!!! how could the HO fail to insert a line into such a huge vein..?????

deserved for HO kurang asam garam award.. (this HO also graduated from a local public university)..

# case 5

in the past, we houseman worked like lembu and donkey.. there was no time for us to sit and rest.. the MO just sat over the counter and monitored what we were doing.. we used to offer ourselves to assist the MO in doing any bedside procedures..

nowadays, the house officers are sitting over the counter and “observing” the MO doing their job.. no greetings, no offer, no initiative to learn..

deserved for HO kurang upaya fizikal award..

# case 6

houseman manja..

a female houseman is a little bit slow in doing her job and her medical knowledge is very poor.. but she likes to come to work late, and goes back home early.. every morning during the ward round, one of the surgeons likes to ask her a lot of questions to test her medical knowlege.. and most of the time she can’t answer.. one day, suddenly the surgeon receives a phone call when he is doing surgery “i’m the mother of @#$%, please stop asking my daughter any questions, or i will make a complain to the state health director..” huh?? like this also can arr..???

deserved for HO lampin pasti tak bocor award.. (this HO graduated from a local private medical school)..
You should read more about our current situations and about these overflooding of HO's from indonesia/russia and how it is affecting our healthcare system.

This post has been edited by FrostLance: Jun 25 2011, 09:42 PM
CyberSetan
post Jun 26 2011, 02:03 PM

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QUOTE(FrostLance @ Jun 25 2011, 09:40 PM)
You should see reports from MMC before backing them up. We have tons of incompetents right now. Those HOs couldnt even differentiate a sleeping patient and a cyanosis one.
I dont blame the students, the one needed blaming is the mushrooming of agents sending them to russian/indonesia university.. Most who are in russia ARE NOT EVEN EXPOSED TO CLINICAL TRAINING throughout the 5 years.

About attitude, your right about it, the thing is, most of them ive seen do not have these "want to learn" attitude. I dont mind their lack of knowledge, but most of them attitude so bad, see many of them.
http://pagalavan.com/2011/06/19/future-of-...lthcare-part-1/

This is whats currently happening now, and most of them are with these attitudes
You should read more about our current situations and about these overflooding of HO's from indonesia/russia and how it is affecting our healthcare system.
*
He apparently is not up to date or didn't even bother to know matters such as this. I've been observing this since 2004, way back when I did my BSc.
During that time, sending students to Ukraine and Russia for medicine was quite popular, little do the parents and Govt know what the consequences will be.

That (the highlighted part) is among the problems faced by the students there,,,, this has been mentioned before in the past, not only be the students themselves but also by some Malaysian medical doctors blog~

Back then, when Ukraine's CSMU medical program was de-recognized by MMC, there was an uproar with many blaming the Govt of limiting the chances of the Malaysian Indians from becoming doctors in Malaysia. This is because there was a large number of self-funded Indian medical students studying there.

There were issues raised about the CSMU - for example, they were accepting non-science students and academically poor students into their medical program....

when I started my training in Likas hospital lab in Sabah in 2007, many of the Russian / Ukrainian medical students are seen doing their elective there as well. This makes me wonder why would they want to do elective postings in Malaysia instead of Russia/Ukraine, when the DG of health (Tan Sri Dr.Ismail Merican) is opposed to such idea....

Perhaps the Russian/Ukrainian patients doesn't want foreigners touching them? - who knows... if so... how will one learn medicine properly?

This post has been edited by CyberSetan: Jun 26 2011, 02:32 PM
[F]atalit[Y]
post Jun 26 2011, 02:23 PM

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Come back and shout 1Malaysia, while they reply with For Mother Russia! Bang bang
izzizahari
post Jun 26 2011, 02:49 PM

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u may call me not updated, but i worked with them, be it from aus or ukraine.

i have JPA sponsored sister in russia.

im from local uni.

all the same.

what differentiate is attitude.

all local uni, jpa scholar, the standard is quite the same as, as they are pre-selected. (most kaki bangku, nerd, law abiding citizen, full attendance during schooling etc2...)

but all others using pama, result may vary.

when u worked, u will see many/majority is from indo or russia/ukraine, as its the cheapest. no wonder if problematic they produce so many, even not surprising as some just go as they got the money.

i stood frozen during my 1st cpr though i done it during my studies many time on manikin(got cert from kkm) and some patient(after pt is dead)

an aussie grad stood frozen with me during that same cpr.

its a ukraine grad who intubate and coordinate the show... albeit he is 2nd poster and me and the aussie is just in our 2week.

just my advise to u, good or bad the person is his choice, little to do with uni. (then all dr in russia and ukraine is crap)

housemenship is a time to learn, consolidate ur knowledge.

everybody will make a mistake, everybody will not know everything, everybody need to learn to improve.


Muhammad Nur Hanief
post Jun 26 2011, 02:53 PM

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Go Russia cari ayam oni. What for?

Here oso got Russian ayam liao!
hyperx
post Jun 26 2011, 05:09 PM

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QUOTE(izzizahari @ Jun 25 2011, 07:39 PM)
i think the problem is parent are pushing their child to go for medic as its a sure shot career.

problem is when the child expect doctor life is awesome shiat like house or er, when the reality is, well......

be it from what uni, everyone will not know how to take abg, insert branula, proper cpr (tambah sket, dekat real patient), pleural tap... all need practice and experience

if the HO is delusional with house, the he is doomed..
*
wah, zaman aku medical student, aku buat sumer ni kot. setahu aku sumer ni basic je lol, and sumer medical student patut tahu buat

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