There is little reason for Sammy to stay other than because of his love for the club. He isn't making headway in his career and I'm sure he's itching to get back into management again. Maybe down a division or two and he wasn't quite ready for the Premiership the last time round. Sammy arguably had more purpose under Rafa and Houllier, neither of which are renowned for their man management abilities. Sammy provided the human touch and played the role of a motivator. The thing is that King Kenny is in pretty much the same mold and thus, Sammy's role has been downsized.

I don't think it's because Kenny isn't a sentimental guy I mean the fact that he is still very much an avid supporter as much as he is a manager puts that notion to rest. Also what he did during Hillsborough made him untouchable in the eyes of Liverpool fans and it was very much driven by sentiment.

The thing about Sammy is as I said in my previous post, his role was effectively undermined the moment we appointed Steve Clarke. I'm sure it's business and not personal and we do have to make sacrifices in the name of progress.

What issue do you have with Sammy Lee? He's been a loyal servant to the club both as a player and as a coach. He loves the club more than anyone. Rafa's deadwood my arse! He was at Liverpool way before Rafa. Get your facts straight.

Again, READ. Sammy Lee was brought back to Anfield in a coaching capacity by Graeme Souness not Rafa Benitez or does your memory not go so far back? He was promoted to first team coach under Gerard Houllier. If you're going to support the club, at least get your facts right even if you have differing opinions.

Your lack of respect and appreciation for someone who is Liverpool through and through is disgusting. What does Sammy Lee's failure as a manager have to do with his ability as a coach? So he's a crap coach is he? Wonder how he survived 5 managers then i.e. Souness, Evans, Houllier, Rafa and Dalglish?

As I said before, even if you don't respect him as a coach, at least respect him as a living legend. If you don't, it just reinforces that point that there are more and more bandwagon jumpers supporting the club when they don't know what it means to support Liverpool Football Club.

He isn't as tactically astute as Steve Clarke and he probably knows it which is why he agreed to leave but I cannot fathom how anyone can be unappreciative of his commitment to the club? The Liverpool fans I know have always appreciated dedication, commitment and passion regardless of talent. Was he great as a player? No but he would run his legs to the ground for our cause. Was he great as a coach or assistant manager? No but you could see from the way he leapt from the bench each time we scored, how much the club means to him. For that alone, he has a special place in all our hearts, well most of our hearts anyway.

No disrespect to Sammy Lee? Did you read your first f***ing post??? Did you show any appreciation at all. Yes, results matter but you make a mockery of the values ingrained at the club. Everyone understands why Dalglish parted company with him but there is no need to undermine his commitment to the club when he was here. I think it's disgraceful that a fan like you does.

No big secret that Souness was crap as a manager but that doesn't change the fact that you were wrong to say "Sammy Lee is Rafa's deadwood".

Are you even going to the Liverpool game here? If you are I look forward to meeting you in person to further discuss your views on the contribution of Liverpool players and staff, past and present.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Jul 1 2011, 03:15 PM

Being a supporter is more than just about wearing a jersey. Anyone with a bit of money can splash on a kit and put it on.

Your lack of appreciation for former players and managers, good or bad is what gives you away. Instead, you value only success and any Liverpool fan would tell you that supporting the club means much more than that but I doubt you'd understand that. Why do you even support the club?

Yes I can say anything about you, I will and I have.

It isn't a sin to want to win things. It is a sin to completely disregard the contributions of such a loyal servant to the club, and label him as "deadwood". Have you read anyone here or any international forum e.g. liverpoolfc.tv / redandwhitekop.co.uk say a single bad thing about Sammy Lee? Ever wonder why? You may belittle his ability as an assistant manager if you want but it isn't merely coincidence that he was Rafa's assistant when we finished 2nd in the league.

A walk down memory lane with our Sammy (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2011/06/29/sammy-lee-s-liverpool-fc-career-in-pictures-100252-28961205/)

Liverpool used to be a club that promotes from within, up until we hired Gerard Houllier but even then he kept the Boot Room tradition by hiring Phil Thompson. With King Kenny back, we can argue that the Boot Room tradition is very much still alive but less so with the departure of Sammy Lee. This mean anything to you?

Good post on Fagan, thanks for that. People talk about Shankly and Paisley all the time, seldom about Smokin Joe. The story about the tickets? That's what makes me love the club. Shankly used to do the same and his predecessors follows suit. This is why it pains me that some fans choose to ignore history. When you do, it comes down purely to winning. It is actually stories like this that keep me going as a fan and I hope to see more posts like these.

I hope you cross them real hard. Dude, there is no free lunch in the world lah. Ever wonder why so many people get scammed of thousands of dollars? Best not to be so gullible but since you don't have anything at stake, no harm in hoping for a miracle I suppose.

No surprise really. I posted sometime back that during a face-to-face session with Steve McMahon, he said that Kewell was not a Liverpool type player. It was during a Champions League game against Barcelona. We had won the first leg in the Nou Camp and were playing the return leg at Anfield. Anxious moments as the match was coming to a close. Instead of focusing on what was happening on the pitch, our Arry was busy texting and that when McMahon lost any semblance of respect for him. Kewell is a greedy git. For some reason I'm not too fond of Aussie footballers i.e. Kewell, Cahill, Neil and Muscat.

I don't buy that King Kenny would be that ruthless especially to a former teammate. Business is business though and Clarke has better credentials but even so, I doubt King Kenny would fire an old friend over the phone is such drastic fashion. Let's just wait for official interviews from the two before jumping to conclusions. The media has always tried to stir up controversy by blowing things out of proportion.

Hmm Keen comes and Sammy Lee reunites with Big Sam?

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Jul 6 2011, 04:02 PM

You can't say that the mancs aren't milking the Asian market for all it's worth. The rest of the 'big four' are doing something and they had to as well. Competition between the clubs is as much off the pitch as it is on it.

I think Liverpool took the first step forward the moment they recognised the need for a commercial director and appointed Ian Ayre. Results aren't instant of course but the fact that they are coming to Malaysia for the first time and have signed a 3 year contract with a local telco signals their intent.

As for OOTs, it isn't as bad as it was before. There is a growing respect for us. Can you blame them for being protective though? Even amongst us, we have fans who don't know about the club's history, it's traditions and values. Being an OOT, I'm disappointed and I can just imagine how it must be for them. If I had a car I really love and had to sell it, I'd want to know it's going to a good owner who will take care of it. I can empathise with them but from experience, they slowly begin to respect you when you can hold a conversation with them. You won't see many random baseless one liners there as you do here.

I'm with Monstar on this one. I do agree that the common stereotype is that Mat Salleh's think they know it all but in the context of Liverpool, they do being from the city and all. In fact, I empathise with them in this case. It pains me that fans don't think it's important to know about our history and yet expect to be treated in the same regard as scousers who are actually from the city. Like Monstar said, if you want respect you have to earn it. When I was in Liverpool for a short visit, I met with fans in pubs and although they were apprehensive when I first told them I was a fan, they warmed to me when they saw I actually knew a fair bit about the club. You can't buy passion and sentiment and that is what makes scousers stand out amongst other fans. It's natural for them to expect the same of any other fan who supports the club. In fact, I'm glad they are apprehensive about OOTs because it makes me want to prove myself by reading and learning about Liverpool. Instead of brushing it off and blaming them for have a holier than thou stance, I choose to use it as inspiration and improve my knowledge of the club. I just wish that more would do the same especially when information is readily available on the net.

We're no different than any other club. Only recently, we've spent less in comparison with teams like Chelsea and Man Utd who either inherited a lot of wealth or capitalised on their fame, gaining a lot of revenue in the process. Players like Rush, Barnes, Dalglish, Saunders, Beardsley, Toshack, Keegan, etc were all bought.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Jul 7 2011, 02:22 PM

Out Of Towner

I agree with everything you've said. You don't claim to be equally as good a fan as scousers just because you bought a few jerseys along the way. Like I said earlier, money can't buy passion.



You can't compare the prices of players now and then. It's common knowledge that the price of players has inflated in recent times because of various factors, and this isn't helped but he fact that you have filthy rich owners throwing money around. Dean Saunders was signed for a then English record of $2.9 million pounds. We also signed Stan Collymore for a record $8.5 million pounds. I don't have to time to go through how much each player cost when during the 80's but we do buy players and very few clubs if any had the financial muscle to go on a spree.



I think we all know where we went wrong but I there are many other reasons why we haven't won the league in that time.



Fine but what is your point?



Who is arguing and who is showing you disrespect? I've never been criticised for being a Liverpool fan even when I posted regularly on .tv and RAWK. Yes, I've seen comments aimed at OOTs but they are becoming far and few in between. Stop asking for respect. If you've earned it, people will give it to you.



Again, where are you getting all these insults from? No I don't consider myself Scouse but I can see why they don't respect foreign fans, especially those who don't take the effort to read about the club's history. I myself have little regard for any fan who doesn't regardless of nationality but I accept that people have their own definition of what it is to be a fan.

I agree but it's frustrating to know that there are a lot of fans who don't care to be educated and when you tell them stuff, they think you're trying to prove that you're better than them. You weren't around at the time but there was a big discussion on what it means to be a fan, a whole thread on it and you'll be surprised at how many fans don't think that history is important at all.

It's like I said earlier, the onus is also in us to make sure we know as much about the club we claim to love and support as much as possible. Why rely on others to spoon feed us when all one has to do is click on the mouse to learn as much as they want. I mean, if you're going to spend hundreds of dollars on merchandise, why not spend a little time on the net to get information for free? Yes, fans should educate other fans but it is still disheartening to know that some people don't take the effort to learn by themselves.

While we're in the topic, let me give you an example of someone who took the effort to become a fan. You've corresponded with Monstar who is now studying in the UK. I don't always agree with his opinions e.g. Rafa and stuff but I myself cannot match his passion. When I first met him, he was 18 or so. I had organised a viewing party for Carlsberg and Liverpool were playing Man Utd. I asked him to come and he came alone to watch the game. Since then he's become an active member of MyRAWK and we've watched many games together. The bloke memorised all our songs (which I myself haven't) and his knowledge of LFC dates back to Shankly. In the short time that I knew him, he gained vast amounts of knowledge and I find myself being envious that he now gets to live in the UK. He is an example of someone who took it upon himself to self-educate. He has my respect and I'm sure he has gotten the respect of Liverpool fans he's met there.

Now that all being said, I know that not everyone has the time and not everyone is as passionate and that's fine. It's like your career though. If you spend more time and effort at work than your colleague, chances are you'll get more recognition. The same applies for being a fan. Respect and recognition will come in due time.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Jul 7 2011, 04:52 PM

Wikipedia is a good free source. It's amazing the amount of information you can find via a google search. Wiki will give you brief historical account of the club.

Books? Most biographies provide good reading material and you get to read stories and accounts from players you won't find online. I just finished reading Tommy Smith's book entitled "Anfield Iron". I've also read Fowler's and Carra's in recent times. I usually won't read a biography unless the player is retired or near retirement which is why I never read the Torres and Gerrard one's although I have them. People gave them to me as gifts. I had a book on Shankly entitled "The Essential Shankly" but I lent it to a friend and he's not given it back yet.

Start online and read about Shankly, Hillsborough and Heysel. If you visit liverpoolfc.tv and redandwhitekop.co.uk, you'll come across some pretty well written posts from senior fans.

Well done.

I said what I said without knowing you so it was unbiased. Anyway it's just my opinion.

You don't only need to remember things you like. Whether or not you feel our history is burdening us is your opinion but nonetheless, I still feel it's important to know. Our history to me is what defines us as a club now. We remember and still talk about past events like Hillsborough because we need to honour the victims and ensure that the fight for justice will continue and their voices will be heard. We still talk about Shankly not just because of what he did but he modeled the club after who he was and you can still see it today. Shankly would give away match tickets to kids who couldn't get their hands on any. Carra paid for a fan's ticket in Istanbul. Shankly has always said that Liverpool is the people's club and until today, the club and players always pay tribute to the 12th man of Anfield. Shankly started the boot room culture and although we broke the tradition of promoting from within, we still see former players take on coaching roles, that is until Sammy left but we have Dalglish at the helm now. I think that remembering the past pays tribute to those who have contributed to the club. I believe that our history is what gives us our identity or we'll just be fans supporting any old football club for the same reason our rivals support their football club.

I also mooted that we should bring Kenny back even when Rafa was still here, and I dreaded the day we appointed Hodgson but I don't see what that has to do with history?