Hi, I don't know if lowyat has any other people posting this topic coz I couldn't find it. Can someone tell me the difference between Inspira 2.0 and Lancer GT 2.0 ?? I know the price different == but what about the car specs. Appreciate if you guys can provide me the information I need coz I'm probably getting an Inspira soon.

This post has been edited by Daniel520: Jun 5 2011, 07:04 PM

badge,rims,bodykit,interior trimming,some tuning to the suspension

This post has been edited by ZeneticX: Jun 5 2011, 07:05 PM

That's all ?? the specs remain the same?? How come proton is selling 2.0 at 92k and Lancer around 130k >.> ?? Any idea?

This post has been edited by Daniel520: Jun 5 2011, 07:07 PM

1 is a proton, the other is a mitsubishi.ckd and cbu

Sorry I'm not really good with cars what is CKD and CBU??

local car , imported car.

imported car is being taxed 200% if im not mistaken.

the original price of the lancer gt is somehow around 60k to 70k.

so inspirar is overprice but thanks to our government trying to protect our local industry but lowers our buying power.

I'd go for the Inspira to save $$.

i wouldnt.

proton is still forever a proton.

91k vs 130k.. alot eh.. can buy another Saga FL

Might as well get a KIA/NAZA Forte?

Mindset.

if u can afford to look at 200k+ cars u wouldn't be bothered with proton of coz

Yeah, in the meantime what would you do? Pay the same price for an overpriced B-Segment local CKD Toyota/Honda when you can buy a much better car??

TS: The different suspension is tuned softer for comfort, while Lancer is harder.

Lotus Ride & Handling

Fixed

one u been conned to buy a proton.. another one u been conned to pay for 200% tax

Difference is inspira got cruise control, auto headlight & auto wiper. Rest are more or less the same except for the wheels.

wat is wrong wit proton?

Well honestly I never bought a proton yet. What I know is Proton according to many people has power window problems and also cola tin/milo tin (I watched the Proton Saga BLM/S16 ANCAP crash test not bad at all). Maybe the cars before are quite bad?

Mitsubishi is branded, the proton's logo makes the price cheaper I think? *joke*

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Added on June 5, 2011, 8:08 pmAgree with that

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Added on June 5, 2011, 8:10 pmbro you should think properly, lancer and inspira just 10-15k different. Proton is still a Proton, problem everything*as I know* . anyway just an opinion

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Added on June 5, 2011, 8:11 pmAs I know, the cheaper M.lancer is around 107k MYR bro

This post has been edited by Chia Kenji: Jun 5 2011, 08:11 PM

whats wrong with proton's car? i already have/drive a proton car since Proton SAGA Megavalve, iswara,wira,and now i own a waja and bought a new one, NEO CPS. never regretted for me to own this car. not as much problem as told by other ppl.

Nothing is wrong with Proton bro. I also had a satria neo. Just giving some opinion, if you really spent rm97 k for proton inspira, why don't just get a cheaper mitsubishi lancer which cost rm107k. but the final decision is depends on the person

ckd = complete knock down (means assembled locally in malaysia)
cbu = complete build up (means fully imported)

Since when Inspira is 97k??? Get your facts right. You can get 2.0 Inspira for 90K or less after discount. And Inspira has softer suspension than lancer...perfect as a family sedan for comfort. I dunno what specs is your cheap Lancer....probably less than the 90k Inspira 2.0cc i guess...

actually, i do agree with kahiye

it's not mindset. i went to showroom and start to look and feel the inspira. it just feels like proton. cheap plastic, cheap leather. not sure it's expensive or not but the material did feel cheap

different when i tried out new forte. it feel different. all the leather, plastic and material, everything is seriously is good quality. honestly, even better than my new vios.

can i test drive ur vios? anybody here got forte? anyone can lend their city?

lets compare these cars in real world...write about it n post it here...we blinfolded few public members n ask them about their opinion...

then only we know which 1 is better...

talking like this never ends...

Cant agree more

Or we do blind test on the lancer and inspira too

y not?

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Added on June 5, 2011, 9:10 pmerrr....i reply in wrong thread laa...hahaha....


This post has been edited by Daniel John: Jun 5 2011, 09:10 PM

but still can relate ma. lol

thing is, whether ppl believe or not

I tested all the commonly bought sub 100k cars before so here's my 2 cents. The Inspira is POWERFUL. No doubt about that while the Forte 1.6 is slow (didn't get a chance to test the 2.0 they say no stock). As for difference with Lancer, it's totally not worth your time to consider the Lancer EX (that's the cheaper Lancer) or the GT for that matter coz the Inspira 2.0 is just 99% similar in feel but the difference comes when they are driven. My money would of coz go to the Inspira not only coz it's cheap but it's also refined.

However, I admit that I feel the quality of Inspira is lacking compared to the Forte but the same is also for the Lancer. So basically the build quality for the Forte seems to be better but the driving is meh. City and Vios are just con jobs for unsuspecting victims Fiesta is a nice ride though but that's a different segment already.

My 2 cents

I love your style mate

I swear this one has no sarcasm....ok maybe a bit

This post has been edited by jeff_ckf: Jun 5 2011, 09:20 PM

You means the suspension? I heard Inspira uses Continental Tyres.

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Added on June 5, 2011, 9:47 pmCan't agree more that's why I never choose city or Vios. Between do you know anything about Fiesta?? i actually considered before Fiesta but havent test drive yet. I tested inspira 1.8 coz they dun haf the 2.0 too. Fiesta and Inspira 2.0 the price is about the same right??

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Added on June 5, 2011, 9:47 pmCan't agree more that's why I never choose city or Vios. Between do you know anything about Fiesta?? i actually considered before Fiesta but havent test drive yet. I tested inspira 1.8 coz they dun haf the 2.0 too. Fiesta and Inspira 2.0 the price is about the same right??

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Added on June 5, 2011, 10:40 pmBetween I heard Inspira go max is 250km/h and lancer GT 2.0 can go Max 300km/h is this true anyone can clarify this matter for me? Thanks in advance !~

This post has been edited by Daniel520: Jun 5 2011, 10:40 PM

Inspira 2.0 should be 92k minus some cash rebate now so it should be around 89k or so. The Fiesta 1.6 Hatchback is 82,888. Btw, if you're really buying Inspira I suggest you read the brochure first as you appear to be totally clueless. No offence meant. As for top speed, the 2.0 can get 198 km/h while the fastest is the 1.8 manual is quoted to be 202 km/h. Lancer GT is just an Inspira with a different bodykit and stiffer suspension, how to reach 300? Even the stock Evo X can't reach 300 km/h

big quality difference....dun believe me just open the boot/tyre fenders area and look at the moulding and chassis seals quality....like a kindergarten kid finishing inside the Inspira whereas the Lancer is superb quality finishing.

The different is minimal..Don't listen to any Inspira basher because obviously, they are Proton haters which is always throwing out pointless comment..They don't even have Inspira to make a fair judgement..If you want a value of money, go for Inspira..If you just wanna spend your money to buy brand name, go for Lancer..Up to you..That's your money anyway

Lancer kerb weight about 1358 while Inspira kerb weight about 1335

While for speed

Lancer EX 114/6000 and 99/4250
Inspira (2.0) 110/6000 and 97/4250

Buying Inspira worth for money in Malaysia.

This post has been edited by VerdictReview: Jun 6 2011, 08:25 AM

Two thumbs up bro. And yeah, i might have buy Forte 2.0 as well, but those lanci NAZA saleswoman keep saying no test drive unit...fuiyoh...expect people to buy 97k car with no test drive?? Yeah, the interior maybe not as nice as Forte, but it is decent enough...(and frankly the dashboard design could use more compartment space...)..but it is small matter compares to the overall package.

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Added on June 6, 2011, 8:42 am300km/h??? Get your facts right lar bro...but the Lancer GT does seems to have a slightly higher top speed, maybe a little over 200km/h...mainly due to the Inspira ECU being programmed to cut off at sligltly lower top speed.

Anyway, Malaysia speed limit is 110km/h. How often to you hit 200km/h anyway, unless you do racing everyday? And safety first...no car gonna save you at a collission of 200km/h or more...no matter how many airbags or techs inside...

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Added on June 6, 2011, 8:44 amWhy need to pinjam?? Just go to showroom lar!!!

I've test drove Forte 1.6, Vios, City and Inspira 1.8/2.0 before finally settle for the Inspira.
btw, you can test drive the 2.0 Inspira at many places. If u arund PJ, try to to Mutiara Damansara branch or the Taman Megah (facing LDP) branch to test drive. Sure got. I drove the unit directly from the Showroom to test drive...hahaha..so paiseh...all the people looking at the Inspira have to make way for me. Mutiara Damansara there sure got...just go and ask.

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Added on June 6, 2011, 8:45 amMy Proton Savvy...power window switch spoilt once in 4 years. My old Myvi...power window spoilt twice in 4 years...so??

Cola milo tin?? Try drive a VIVA.

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Added on June 6, 2011, 8:51 amYes, Inspira use CC5 tyres.

Eh...Fiesta got 2.0 meh?? I think that is Ford Focus lar...cheapest RM 11xk.

This post has been edited by Matrix: Jun 6 2011, 08:54 AM

i don't believe you. so i go open the boot/tyre fenders area and look at the moulding and chasis seals quality already, side by side with a lancer gt. omg!!!



so yeah bro, your bro is not believable. Btw, did you OWN any of these car? GT? Inspira or Forte? need to ask you 1 more thing.

I'm not sure, I didnt research Inspira, but all my colleagues seems to be saying INspira is using Proton engine?

@matrix

my plan is to make a shoot out...we gather those cars...from members of this forum...then we gather public...then ask their opinion each of this car...then only we know...what is what...

Hahaha you just made my day dude

Doesnt matter what is the truth, if 70% of potential car buyers out there THINKS Inspira (true or not) is using proton engine means Proton already lost a BIG chunk of potential sales.

Perception >>> Facts.

ps : Thanks for your comment though, very informative.

This post has been edited by MeToo: Jun 6 2011, 11:34 AM

haha..go to www.wikipedia.org

type 4b11

and MOST IMPORTANTLY READ

This post has been edited by ckk125: Jun 6 2011, 11:52 AM

i am driving an 2.0 inspira from 24 dec 2010 until now.

i got ntg more to say. its a nice car. just some suspension problem ( i heard my frenz who driving 1.8 inspira facing the same problem also, and ill send to warranty when 2nd service)

other than tat, its a nice car.

oh yeah. the fact. while i was getting my car tinted, the fella said the windows/screen size is smaller than mitsubitshi's Lancer GT. after compare my car with my another frenz's Lancer GT.

I mean 1.6 fiesta compare with inspira 2.0 ==

the different is.. 1 .. u con by Proton.. 2.. U con even more by government....

What are your suggestions?? there isn't much 80k + car around. Forte, Fiesta, City and Vios? is there any other car?

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Added on June 6, 2011, 1:28 pmOOoo so the suspension malfunction fast?? lol dam so lotus handling made by proton sux ?? lolx == is there any other problems with your inspira >< ??

This post has been edited by Daniel520: Jun 6 2011, 01:28 PM

Ahh I see, you must be descended from the people that said the world is flat. But seriously dude, Columbus already proved it otherwise quite some time ago. Same thing with the Inspira and the so-called Proton engine it uses. But since 70% of the people you know are....not so affluent.....I can understand where you're coming from.

p.s. I can understand admitting a mistake hurts the ego and all but you're just humiliating yourself if you continue rambling

So u suggest TS to get a Vios/City instead of the Inspira?

That should be down to number 2 choice.

Vios and City are overrated cars.

again another one...

lotus handling = absorbers?


i gave up...

it's not all inspira affected by the suspension prob. i guess it is just the first batch.

other? .. no. its an awesome car. 100% more worth than getting a vios/city. u'll love it. trust me (a owner of honda city, toyota vios, toyota unser, myvi, kancil, iswara, saga)

"....not so affluent....."

HAHAHAHHA! You are really trying to convince me that buying Inspira is "AFFLUENT" hahahha!!!

The reason i dont even bother reading up on Inspira is maybe cause I'm driving a 350Z?

PS : To all those Inspira drivers out there, nothing against your car, looks great, just wanan laugh at the joker Jeff there .

This post has been edited by MeToo: Jun 6 2011, 02:17 PM

LoL Okay I will have another test drive this coming saturday on the inspira 2.0 ><~

i sit and driven both car. lancer Gt FL & inspira 2.0

from my point of view. layman view. both car got pro & cons..

interior
- both got leather seat
- both got plastic finishing here and there.. not the wrap PU/leather like prev lancer/Wira
- lancer got better steering finished due to its chrome logo finishes and everywhere else.
-lancer got better interior feeling due to more black / chrome finishes. unlike inspira that nearly everything is dark.
-lancer got better gearknob finishes. due to its coloring scheme.
-lancer got better meter illumination & coloring.
- inspira got simple HU
- lancer got better HU
- inspira got better speaker
-lancer ok la.. not bad but not as good as inspira
- inspira got better air conditioning
- lancer got magnesium gear shifter than proton fiber? feeling shifter.
-inspira got better sound insulation. try to knock both car roof panel. u'll heard the diffrent.
-both got unrealible panel at the pillar ( left & right next to dashboard ). like can be taken off by peeling.

exterior
-lancer bodykit looks aggresive & angry.
-lancer got a big wheelset
-lancer got spoiler
-inspira got small ducktail
-rear reflector finishing at inspira is better looking than lancer
-same door handle finishes.

ride & handling
- inspira goes better on bumpers, super bad road. comfy setup
- inspira whack sharp corner got a bit buang at rear
- lancer more harded suspension, not too great on bumpers & bad road
- more respond and grip on sharp corner.
- pickup, i think lancer a bit slow for a few sec.. most probably the big wheel.
- inspira, accelerate quiet fast from 0 but big tyre profile... feels like motorboat during high speed..


err dunno if lancer got those telescopic steering wheel ?

Usually people say that is because its part of it, == parts that proton change with is accountable to lotus handling.

Hmm.... good write up, seems Lancer not worth the extra $$ then. Might as well get a Inspira and change to aftermarket sports suspension, bodykit, sports rims, heck even gear knobs/steering... still got left over $$.

I don't give a squat if you're driving a prancing horse FXX. You are the type of people that thinks they own the road with an 'expensive' car. Let me tell you what is going on now:

1. You mix with people that thinks the Inspira has a Proton engine (ok not everyone is knowledgeable in engines so I can understand)
2. You tell the people you don't mix with (forummers) about what the people you mix with says which is wrong (ok so you're also not knowledgeable that's understandable too)
3. You expressly mention that facts are NOT important even when presented with one (not so acceptable coz if facts are not important what's the point of discussing?)
4. You do not understand the word affluent and try to boast that you are maybe driving (I doubt that) a japanese car that has nothing to do with the discussion of Proton and Mitsubishi engines on the Inspira

p.s. I'm not even telling you that buying an Inspira is affluent or otherwise. You just made that up somewhere perhaps while driving your 350Z

"You are the type of people that thinks they own the road with an 'expensive' car."

Ooo... jealous? umadbro?


3. Did you present any "facts" to me? Your post was basically "LOL". How does that educate me on the simple question on whether Inspira is using a proton engine or otherwise?

4. This shows YOU do not understand the word u used. Maybe "effluent" would be more suitable for what is flowing out of your mouth

the tweeter located at the side mirror thr.

and air-con, yes. its better than Lancer GT.

after more than 10 times test, compare with my frenz's mitsubitshi lancer GT.

inspira > lancer... in terms of money worthy, special features by proton+lotus

The fact is you did not even bother to do ANY due diligence or even read or inquire at the Proton Inspira thread. And what about your 70% of friends?

Yep I am very jealous of your 350Z coz I am poor

p.s. But my dream car is a Lotus Evora la but 350Z is of course better

Yeap that is what I'm thinking but you have to finish the 3 years warranty before you can do so.

- inspira got better speaker (inspira doesn't even have a tweeter on front speaker, that is better?)
- inspira got better air conditioning (how do u test the aircon ???)

my layman replies
- i put a loud "mosh metal" band cd and listen... got sound came out infront.... yup no tweeter.. no need tweeter if you already have good soundproofing...
actually -.. the sound came out is really good for my ears. perhaps i never set the audio tuning ( rock, hall, classis ) at lancer..

for the aircond... just turn the knob at 25 and also half at the coldness.. feels inspira much more cooler..
might be subjective due to outside weather. i have not test both car at the same time.

but, hey.. its my layman test.. i dont have a thermometer to test.. possible lancer much cooler too ? i dunno.

Dude, just chill it lah. My First post I already admitted I didnt research Inspira before i asked, why should I? Wasnt looking to buy another car anytime soon.

Anyway, some colleague was discussing and the question was raised, and no... none even considered an Inspira cause they were under the impression its using Proton engine. That should how bad proton marketing is. Good marketing should create such a good impression/perception of their product that they can even sell sugar water (Coke anyone?).

Edit : Oh as for dream car, make it a reality lah, its always more fun then dreaming and I'll even race your toyota engine lotus.. just let me know

This post has been edited by MeToo: Jun 6 2011, 02:50 PM

i believe in inspira broucher stated clearly that inspira use mivec engine, mivec is definitely mitsubishi engine, not proton's

LoL emm when I test drive 1.8 inspira the salesperson said that Proton only assemble the parts and ofcourse the engine is already assembled when mitsubishi send it to malaysia. That is what the sales person said. I believe is really a real mivec engine~

This post has been edited by Daniel520: Jun 6 2011, 02:54 PM

Well, just for sharing purposes, a female colleague of mine actually knows what the Inspira "rebadge" deal is all about (instead of the usual bashing of copycat, backward move bla bla bla) and she also knows about the financial implication this would be for Proton as compared to having a complete built from scratch unit. I have to admit I am impress with her knowledge and she's not even a car junkie and she's mighty young too.

Nothing is wrong with Proton's marketing though I am unhappy with their usage of suppliers linked to people with vested interest in the government.

Peace

MeeToo, just go to http://www.protoninspira.com/, then select any variant on the opening page. there you'll find this :

1.8L MIVEC engine
exhilarating performance always

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Added on June 6, 2011, 2:55 pm+1

This post has been edited by evoHahn: Jun 6 2011, 02:55 PM

well it could be a mivec engine, but Mitsubishi / Proton press statement also said there are 40% local parts. The question then is how much of these 40% are in the drivetrain? I won't argue on this as this is the 'grey' area, which no one will have answers.

Mivec is just a term, like CVT. Whether it's made by Mitsubishi Japan or local assemble is the bigger question. And for the 40% local parts, has Proton improved on their QC substantially to make sure those parts are up to standard?

and for the 60% which is not locally assemble, are these parts from other country or from Mitsubishi? if the 60% is from China, then there is another problem.

The real arguement is back to how much of mitsubishi parts or equivalent standard is there in Inspira? unless someone has an answer to that, else we all can argue for months with no conclusion.

Aiseh.. then proton very fail in this case. Cause if peopel already think its a proton engine, they wont even go get the broucher/research ip on it. Since it's using Mitsu engine, I think at 30~40k discount, its an extremely good deal.

I think they meant the 60% is from mitsubishi but where mitsubishi get their supply? >.> Supply mitsubishi get from is on the other side of story. 40% local parts probably as stated the Lotus handling and the body kit they added and changed a few design on. Lancer GT using wad type of headlights??? From what I know Inspira using normal headlights.

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Added on June 6, 2011, 3:17 pmUsually people who think Inspira is proton engine are people who don't plan to buy a car at all <.< if a consumer plan to buy a 80k + car all cars in that range will be considered and of course they will test drive eventually take brochues. Smart consumers always goes for the best deal.

This post has been edited by Daniel520: Jun 6 2011, 03:18 PM

My suggestion is.. whatever it is... you are going to get con... so.. choose the one con u less....

erm...lancer GT uses outer space headlights with parking sensor plus ultra HID built in.

come on, they are the same, both are made by stanley

Stanley make my Toyota's headlamp too... reliable..

Yes the 60% is same supplier with mitsu or not is questionable.

As i said, how much of Inspira has parts equivalent or better than mitsubishi? Then that will answer all this question on the price. Btw, Lancer got higher tax because it's CBU.

Inferior product + higher profit margin OR better product + higher tax. Smart guys get it. Do you get it?

please lah...there are many places to read about inspira

the drivetrain plus ECU comes directly from mitsu, without any tampering by proton

CVT = a different type of transmission, MIVEC = variable valve timing. which part is the same?

again, there are plenty of info in the inspira thread, most of them are from japan.

This post has been edited by ckk125: Jun 6 2011, 03:25 PM

what I think is... the one who go for Mistu Lancer here in Malaysia now are really not that smart...

The sales guy said Inspira using normal yellow light coz xenon/HID lights are too bright.

imo, the drive train is lock stock & barrel from Mitsu. I dont think Proton wanna invest in putting up an assembly facility just to assemble MIVEC engines, because i read at paul tan's blog that Proton invest very minimal in coming up with Inspira.

Its the same with my Savvy, i dont think Savvy's engine is assemble locally.

lancer has halogen reflector headlights as well.

unless they changed to projector.

oh ya..regarding headlights,even the 2010 inspira has autoheadlamps.

only the 2011 lancer has it.

hmm I'm not sure if they have changed it >< and yes inspira 2.0 has auto headlamps. I think only inspira 2.0 has it.

i'm sure you READ about the different engine spec, a lot is guessing ECU was programmed differently, no one can actually confirm.

I'm sure you can READ that i say MIVEC is a TERM. CVT is also a TERM. It doesn't say who manufacture it. It will looks damn good if Proton can print on their brochure, our Engine and Transmission Made by Mitsubishi or Japan, which they didn't. Again as I said, I won't go into arguement on these grey area. I can't prove it, so as you and a lot of other people.

Lotus Handling sounds good, manufactured by Lotus? LOL, it's a term, don't get too excited about it.

Unless you put in more solid facts, there is no point arguing.

LoL yea and temporary some people said that the suspension has problems which makes me think that I need to change those suspension once the 3 years warranty are off. and feed back from layman he said when u are turning at sharp corners Inspira seems like going to buang for lancer it has better grip. Inspira accelerates faster though >.> that's what they say. I would like to hear more feedbacks from Inspira Users

This post has been edited by Daniel520: Jun 6 2011, 03:47 PM

READ, where 4b11 is made in Shiga Plant

wikipedia hard to READ?

Since when the engine spec is different? have a look at mitsu lancer singapore. proton also involved there?

the ECU is of different coding as compared to lancer, but it is still by mitsu.

READ the inspira thread. READ

The Mitsubishi 4B1 engine is a range of all-alloy straight-4 engines built at Mitsubishi's Japanese "World Engine" powertrain plant in Shiga on the basis of the Global Engine Manufacturing Alliance (GEMA).[1][2][3] Although the basic designs of the various engines are the same, their exact specifications are individually tailored for each partner (Chrysler, Mitsubishi, and Hyundai). The cylinder block and other basic structural parts of the engine were jointly developed by the GEMA companies, but the intake and exhaust manifolds, the cylinder head’s intake and exhaust ports, and other elements related to engine tuning were independently developed by Mitsubishi.[1]

4B11
[edit] Specifications
Engine type Inline 4 cylinder DOHC 16v, MIVEC
Displacement 2.0 L (1,998 cc)
Bore 86 mm
Stroke 86 mm
Compression ratio 10:1
Fuel system ECI multiple
Peak power 108-114 kW (147-155 PS) at 6,000 rpm
Peak torque 198 N·m (146 ft·lbf) at 4,250 rpm
[edit] Applications

2007 Mitsubishi Lancer
2009 Mitsubishi Outlander (Facelift Europe)
2010 Proton Inspira 2.0P

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Added on June 6, 2011, 4:07 pmdont need to think.

the reason is that feel like buang is the higher profile tyres and the soft set up by proton

no doubt the lancer has more outright grip, but the inspira is much more predictable and comfortable.

it was written in most reviews that the lancer is too tail sensitive.

http://www.mitsubishicars.com.sg/cars/lanc...lspecifications



This post has been edited by ckk125: Jun 6 2011, 04:11 PM

then i blame it on mitsubishi malaysia for the over spec for making things look good.

http://mitsubishi-motors.com.my/lancer-2-gt-specification/

Engine
Code 4B11
Type DOHC MIVEC 2.0-litre (16-valve)
Displacement (cc) 1,998
Max. output (EEC Net) – kW(PS) / rpm 114 (155) / 6,000
Max. torque (EEC Net) – N-m(kg-m) / rpm 199 (20.3) / 4,250

well ya 4 extra kW, and 2 extra N.m is nothing and I'm not gonna make a fuss out of it if you want to argue that it's not gonna make much different practically, but the fact is the spec IS different or is Mitsubishi Malaysia over spec?

Btw, you really make my day I had a great laugh. I was really amazed by your quote from WiKi and the amount you READ and argue other doesn't READ enough. You quote from all around the world, when you could easily get Mitsu Malaysia vs Inspira. Straight forward comparison. Not sure why you are not doing that, or maybe you realise you know it's different, and hopefully I didn't READ enough

It is about sharing.

you really make my day.

i was amazed by your ignorance

This post has been edited by ckk125: Jun 6 2011, 04:37 PM