Hi guys, I’d like to share my experiences so far. This forum has really helped me a lot, so it is time to give a little back.

Apologies for the long-windedness, but maybe you guys can benefit from this, or can share with me some valuable insights as well. A lot of hard work went into finding out things, and to prepare this post, so be kind, ya?

My house is a 2-storey corner lot in Bukit Jelutong, Shah Alam. LA is ~ 4000sf, existing B/U 3200sf. Extension is done to the back, side and front (partial) for both floors as well as redo the fencing. A lot of internal walls will also be knocked down and new ones put up since I'm shifting master bedroom to the back and the two smaller rooms at the back to the front, while adding a big activity/guest room as well as a balcony. Needless to say. a lot of toilets will be moved, and one new toilet added. Not sure how much floor space I will be adding, by it is going to be above 5000sf after reno. So there's a lot of reno, and a lot of things to learn and most importantly, to share!

Like any sane normal person, I have budget constraints. I decided to do the job on a part by part basis, instead of having to suddenly pay a big down-payment when only very little of the job is being done at the 1st few months. So let's say total job is around RM300k, from civil to plumbing to electrical to plaster ceiling to tiling, fittings, etc, down-payment would be about a staggering RM60k!!! Furthermore, you will still need to find someone you can trust not to run away with the money.

But breaking it down, with civil part about 100k on its own, the down-payment will be around RM20k, instead of RM60k if I were to award whole. It is easier to manage financially, but more time-consuming.

Here is where I can give some advice/experience, and I have sectioned them according to scope. I have reserved the next few posts for this purpose to edit when I have some new information, since it is now only the beginning of my own renovation journey.

A. Design

I did most of the design myself, as getting a good design from designers you need to be willing to pay a premium and sometimes, even though it is a good design idea, it might not suit your personal needs for the long term.
To give myself an idea of how the house will look like after renovation, as well as to see what spaces I will have once the renovation is done, I used a 3D visualization free-ware called Google Sketchup 8. You can download it from here:

http://sketchup.google.com/

It is software that is easy to learn and it is very useful for planning what you want. I drew my house up from a blank page, and tweaked the renovation I wanted several times (very easy to pull down walls, pull up new walls, move walls, move doors, windows, etc) until I can settle on what I want. Below is an example of an “almost final” product (with 1st floor roof taken off):



The good thing about the software is that you can also download from Google Sketchup’s massive online repository a fair number of things other users have created and uploaded. If you looked closely at the picture, you will see I’ve downloaded a 2007 Honda Accord 3D model to use in estimating parking spaces. Other things you can download are lamps, fans, WCs, taps, plants, and practically everything else, including whole other houses created by other users!

This post has been edited by vincentjaya: Jun 16 2011, 11:40 AM

B. MBSA Application

Initially, I went myself to the MBSA 8th floor counter, as I read somewhere that the owner must go personally to fill in the forms. I was told by the friendly staff there that it is the case for intermediate terrace houses, as owners can just pay RM25 for a booklet (which list fees to pay, and has all the rules), fill in the renovation type, and get it approved without even having to have drawings signed by architects and structural designs by engineers.

I’m not sure about other majlis, but MBSA is very efficient and can approve pretty quickly if everything is in order and according to the rules. Please note that sometimes, even the front counter people can’t tell you accurately what you can and cannot do, as generally they are new and won’t have enough experience yet.

You need someone who has had a lot of experience with the rules, who can tell you little things that you might not know, i.e. a way to have the edge of your front porch roof 6’ from the front gate, when the normal setback is 10’ in most cases, or the possibility of leaving as little as 5’ setback on the side, when the ruling clearly states 20’ (provided you’re willing to ‘rayu’ (appeal) and wait).

In my case, I follow all the rules, so no need for special appeal, but if your design is special, then I think there are maybe other things to learn to your advantage and benefit.

I was fortunate to have browsed the Setia Alam forum (http://forum.setiaalam.net), and got a good recommendation for a draughtsman (getting original plan, to do your renovation drawing, as well as getting the required signatures) from there. I must warn though, that he is a very busy man and may take some time getting the drawings done, but once it is done, approval is super-fast! Be patient and you will benefit. You can call him at 0123876104 (En Amin). He’s a very friendly fellow and can give a lot of good advice. He also does for other majlis. You can mention my name (Jaya) but I’m not sure if you can get any discount from that.

1. Rules

In my case, since my house is a corner lot, I had to get the whole set of drawings and design calculations done, so it is a little bit more complicated. The rules are very straightforward (AFAIK) in Shah Alam.

For a corner lot (different from end-lots), the setbacks are:
1) 20’ from front gate to the front face of your house wall (excluding the car porch area).
2) 10’ from front gate to the roof edge of your car porch. This can be reduced to 6' if the design of the roof slopes down either side instead of towards the front gate. However, whether this design is accepted or not depends on whether existing facades on either side of your house permits (i.e. you're not permitted to change the general facade of your house to be different from your neighbours'!!!)
3) 20’ from boundary of side fencing to face of side wall of building.
4) 10’ from boundary of side fencing to roof edge of terrace (if there are any for your afternoon tea)
5) 1’ from boundary of back fencing to the back wall. Note: This requirement can be reduced to 0 feet if using concrete gutter at the back.

For an intermediate terrace, the rules are even simpler
1) 20’ from front gate to the front face of your house wall (excluding the car porch area).
2) 10’ from front gate to the roof edge of your car porch.
3) 1’ from boundary of back fencing to the back wall. Note: This requirement can be reduced to 0 feet if using concrete gutter at the back.

2. Required Documents

1) copy of your CF
2) latest cukai pintu receipt
3) 1 copy of S&P
4) 1 copy of IC
5) Picture of your house before renovation (front and back pics and side if corner or end lot) stick to a piece of A4 paper – make sure the house number is shown very clearly.
6) Consent letter for renovations works signed by your neighbour(s), and including the owners of the house at the back for corner lot if your renovation is beyond the setback ruling (kawasan anjakan).

3. Fees

For intermediate terrace, Pay (generally)
i) MBSA RM700 for front ground floor reno,
ii) MBSA RM700 for front 1st floor reno, and so on for 2nd floor, etc
iii) MBSA RM700 for back ground floor reno,
iv) MBSA RM700 for back 1st floor reno, and so on for 2nd floor, etc
v) Alam Flora RM1000 for the trash container.

Out of each of the RM700, RM200 is processing fee; RM500 is refundable if your end product follows the rules.

For corner lot, Pay (I can go more detail for this):

1. Yuran Pelan:
Ground floor: RM3.5 per 9m2 of floor space, minimum RM35 must pay
1st floor: RM3 per 9m2 of floor space, minimum RM30 must pay
2nd floor and so on: RM2.5 per 9m2 of floor space, minimum RM25 must pay for each floor.

2. Sanitary fittings:
Water closet, shower, long bath, urinal, bidet, water tub: RM5 per unit, minimum RM25 must pay
Basin, Sink, Tap: RM2 per unit, minimum RM25 must pay

3. Perubahan Garisan
i) Hadapan = RM18
ii) Tegak Jalan = RM18

4. Swimming Pool = RM25 per 9m2
5. New Drain = RM25
6. New Culvert Entrance = RM25
7. New Fence = RM25
8. Yuran Pindaan Pelan = RM60
9. Deposit = RM500 (Can refund)
10. Permit meletak bahan binaan = RM324
11. Deposit for the permit above = RM200 (Can refund)
12. Bayaran Permit Bangunan Sementara RM250
13. Alam Flora RM1000

My total fees paid for this process were:

MBSA Account: RM1520
MBSA Deposit Account: RM700 (refundable)
Alam Flora: RM1000
Architect + Structural Calculation Report : RM3500

Out of the RM1000 to Alam Flora, RM270 definitely gone for the 1st 3 ton container, and more if you ask for 7 ton container. 1st 14 days of rental is already included in the RM270, but if you leave it there beyond 14 days, every day you have to pay extra RM7 (for 3 ton container) or RM15 (for 7 ton container). Most people just call for the requisite first tong, and after that get reno contractor to supply, so like I said, 1st RM270 of the RM1000 deposit is definitely gone, the rest can refund.

This post has been edited by vincentjaya: Jun 16 2011, 11:42 AM

C. Civil/Structural

I have awarded the structural portion to LNS Renovation & Construction Sdn Bhd. Their website is: www.LNS2u.com.

They aren’t expensive, but the selling point for me then was the track record and the responsiveness and the chief is a friendly chap.

I can’t advise yet on the quality of work and service as it is in progress right now. The workers are Indons. My contractor says he has already tried several different workers i.e. Indons, Bangladeshi, Nepalese, even Chinese from China, and he still think Indonesians have the better skill-set for construction work, while Nepalese though very hardworking, just aren't skillful enough. I think I can agree with that because I've seen some Bangladeshi & Nepalese workmanship before. Of course we know local Chinese better but also more expensive right??? Hopefully, with the new Indon crew, momentum will pick up and I hope to be able to report back in a month’s time on this. I should be able to post some hopefully nice pictures for you by then.

This post has been edited by vincentjaya: Jun 16 2011, 12:09 PM

D. Aluminium+Glass Windows and Doors

Currently, I have placed a deposit with Sunway Aluminium (http://www.sunwayaluminium.com.my). It looked good at the Homedec show so I booked (last year). Glass is laminated glass 6.38mm and aluminium thickness is 1.6mm. Price for the different series ranged from RM60/sqft to RM110/sqft. When I booked, there was a clause stating 10% discount on total price.

Still can't tell you guys about actual installed quality as reno still in structural phase right now. Will post detailed pictures of the finish when it is up, I promise!

Any other good quality ones out there, pls advise. Thanks.

This post has been edited by vincentjaya: May 31 2011, 12:14 AM

E. Plumbing/Sanitary

Based on my checks on the net, and conversation with plumbers and others who have done their reno homework:

Available options for cold water are PVC, PE (Poly-Ethelene), ABS, Copper, GI, SS304, SS316, and SS316L (hehe).
Available options for hot water are PB (Poly-Butene), Copper, SS304, SS316, and SS316L (don't laugh).

I think most of the pros and cons of each are on the internet, so no need to repeat here. I would welcome some prices on each of the above (per length, labour, etc). Also, here are a collection of the additional bits and pieces of information on the net (very messy I know):

1. If going for PVC, insist only on grade 7 with SIRIM OAS Cert and with Syabas certificate (if in Selangor).

2. In Malaysia, many plumbers use Buteline (Malaysia) Sdn Bhd products, so if you need more information on their products, and want to check whether plumber providing you the right one, go to http://www.buteline.com/my/ (wah, free advertisement). So most of the poly- piping using clamping method (no glue), should be healthier right?

3. My friend installed copper piping for both cold and hot water supply. Result: Noisy in the toilet when water is flowing. And when stop, there is sometimes a hammering sound and sometimes a shuddering sound. The term for it is called water hammer effect - a pressure wave running along the pipe. Look it up on wikipedia for more detailed description. Maybe it is an installation problem. Maybe it is the pipe size, or even the pressure rating. or close too quickly, there are quite a number of reasons. Worse is maybe using fake copper (heard about this but is this a myth?), which in the long run, due to the pressure and water hammer effect, can cause leaks or even bursting. I think the problem is not the copper piping, but the plumber!

4. Make sure to check for leaks after installation of piping (both for supply and discharge). How to check for supply leaks? One simple way is to shut all outlets tightly, then take down (better still is to take a photo) the meter reading at night. If it has moved from its reading in the morning, even a mere milimetre, then there is a leak somewhere. Forget about using the pump method as it can only detect bigger leaks. As for good way to check for leaks in discharge piping, I'm waiting for ideas. Any good ideas?

5. I've heard people having low water pressure supply. They then go out and get themselves a pump to increase the pressure. After a few years, the supply pressure drop again. So they called Syabas in and within a day, they cleared the problem from the water main to the meter, and water pressure shot up back to normal and the owners of the house suddenly realized that they never needed the pump in the first place after all - the problem was clogging in the supply line from the main to the meter all these while! Additionally, Syabas supply pressure to each and every home should be enough for 5 storey building, so if your house supply is very slow, call Syabas (or other supplier elsewhere) and they will fix it. No need to buy a pump to pump up to tangki!

This post has been edited by vincentjaya: May 30 2011, 11:14 PM

F. Tiling
Left blank for now

This post has been edited by vincentjaya: May 30 2011, 08:12 PM

G. Electrical
Left blank for now

H. Plaster Ceiling
Left blank for now

I. Painting
Left blank for now

J. Cabinetry
Left blank for now

K. Grill Gate Alarm

Left blank for now

This post has been edited by vincentjaya: May 31 2011, 12:53 PM

wow... very good info indeed..
im waiting for you next input....
thanx jaya... i learn a lot from u

Hey, just had to give something back.

A good info sharing page,I m going to start my Reno this week,hope to get some scatch from u..tq bro!

Great! Will keep tract this topic...

This should be sticky.

Your info is not only about renovation but recommendation and headup advise for those blindfolded person like me

Great job, and keep posting.

Dear VincentJaya, very helpful. Keep it up!

good job thanks

I heard PVC pipe maker informed that
if contractor use too much glue on the
joint. It will have crack in a period of time.
Anyone knows y?

Nice sketch up of the house. Very professional look.
Any before pictures?
Started hacking yet?
Good luck with your renovation

This post has been edited by phoenix69: Jun 18 2011, 12:13 AM

Good luck on your renovation too! Since we're both doing reno at the moment, there are definitely some ideas/info/experience we can share, mate. I'd deffo keep an eye on your updates.

The sketch is using Sketchup, and it is in 3D (can turn around anyway you want to see how it looks like from other angles. If you haven't tried it, should download (it's free) and try. I'm not professional but the software very professional!

Unfortunately I did not take any before pictures indoors, I do have the external ones which I will put up once I get my pictures folder in order (can't seem to find it at the moment!).

At the moment though, partial (partial so that house still secure) hacking done, ground floor footing, ground floor beam, some pillars, and fencing (complete tear down and rebuild!) is being worked on. I will be putting up pictures when I can get it in some order.

Cheers!

This post has been edited by vincentjaya: Jun 18 2011, 09:16 PM

Hi there,

Are you managing your renovation by yourself..

If yes, I suggest your to get ready your plumber and electrical sub-contractor soonest possible..

Thanks for the advise, mate. I've just given my civil contractor the plumbing work. As for electrical, I'm still looking... hopefully settle by end of this month.

Cheers!

Good to hear that...

For common piping works, I suggest to go for ABS (reliable and cost effective)... If you have more budget, then go for original SS304 or SS316 pipe...

Looking forward to your renovation updates.
Keep it up, we can help each other avoid mistakes and most importantly, get the best mileage from our budget.

thanks sharing ..

hi vincent,

May i know how's LNS Renovation & construction's service ? Any other good contractors do share? thanks!

nice sharing

Hi Vincent,

Can you please share info on the rules and fees for end lot? Just so happened that mine is an end lot.

Thank you.

wow thanks for the info jaya
really helps a lot

nice sketchup

how the renovated house look alike now?

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Added on October 16, 2012, 3:05 pmhow the renovated house look alike now?

This post has been edited by Yamma: Oct 16 2012, 03:05 PM

no updates?