U can get the DM602 S3 for RM2000-2100 (or maybe <2k) if you know the right contacts....try HI Way Laser.....they offer better prices than Monsoon.

The MA B2 are good for the price, always a keeper.

The Quad 11L, 12L, Epos M5 etc are actually a notch above the B&W but only your ears will tell & of course the separates matching.

I m using the NADC352CT/Marantz CD7300/Grado SR80/Quad 12L-Epos M12.2 & the classic integrated Pioneer A400(a legend in its time 8-10 years ago - Japanese product, this one is used but in pristine condition...looks almost new to the uninitiated).

If u r used to NADC352 sound, u will find the Pioneer A400 sound a margin on the bright side but more exciting.

Cheers

Perhaps u should also try the wonderful ATC SCM7 (RM3000), a well hidden secret of mini monitors, the sound is simply astoudingly natural with lush mids and surprisingly punchy lows but extension is limited by physical size of the midbass though, extremely suitable for a small study or bed room (if meant for ur living area, please go for the bigger ATC SCM12 but this would be beyond your budget RM6000). ATC is world class mind you, no audio mags worth its salt should criticise ATC speakers much apart from the real plain Jane looks.

Can try out the MA Silver S1 or S2 or the newer RS1 bookshelf, the MA B2 is the bargain of the whole line (tried it & liked it).

Epos, ah the lower profile company that makes great speakers for the moolah, would recommend the M12.2 and for a smaller room the M5, difference in sound is there but not night vs day to justify the almost RM800-1K difference in $$
More cost-effective would be the ELS3, check them out, nearly every audio mag/website has some mention of them.

Quad, don't u just love the glazing finish on these babies, the 11L are no surprise for regular fans of What HiFi S&V, the 12L adds more bass & larger sound stage.

Latest entry, Nbien speakers NX-6 (RM5600) or the smaller siblings sound quite remarkable for the price.

Wharfedale, what else apart from the diamond 9.1 for as low as RM800+ (new)

Mordaunt short (MS), for the MS914 floorstander (~RM1600+)

B&W of course, how to forget these classy ones, the DM602 S3 seems to be the worthy one, money for a big chunk of sound transducer, but this is not shielded mind you(pls don't put them too close to your CRT/TV), this goes head to head in terms of size against the Focal-JM Labs 707S(which is not available in M'sia according to Asia Sound Ltd)......602S3 remain a tried and tested one throughout quite a few years.....I suppose you can't go wrong if u like its sound

JPW 202 bookshelf with a curve(convex) metallic grille, sounds very musical for its RM1500+ price)

Amps(solid state): NAD C352CT/320BEE/Rotel RA-02 or 03(new)/Rotel RA-1062/ Marantz PM7200/Cambridge Audio 640A or wait for the coming 740A($$$)/ Naim (another world class, still affordable)/ Creek A50iR or 5350SE

Sorry...tired need to go for now....the rest are as suggested by others...and Supra cables(I ditched my QED Silver Anniversary some time ago) or the Chord Carnival....but this depends...if your system is laid back...use silver based cables, if it's already bright, use bronze/tin based or coated ones.

Cheers

I get even better than that price...hehehe RM2xxx, well back then, haven't contacted the dealer for yonks these days

Categg, u an ATC fan, if you r seriously interested, maybe can get for RM3000+ a bit (new). PMC DB1+(transmission line) is also very musical (LS3/5A musicality we r talking about here) but that cost a bomb, like RM5000 (RM4800+)...I think ATC would be a better buy, equal or better mids/highs but a bit bass shy (sealed) compared to the PMC DB1+ which is a transmission line = more bass

Some speakers u don't need to buy if u have good rapport with a dealer, just drop by and listen when u feel like it, after work, happy hour, holiday etc....a bit longer into hifi, we all learn how to economize (unless u r into money-printing business)

Hi Fi Choice has good remarks for both amps - Marantz PM7200 and NAD C352, u have to listen for yourself though, objectively, Marantz gives 95 wpc and can be switched to pure Class A mode (there are 2 modes to choose from, Class A might give you a more warm - and some say tube-like sound, others who heard can't tell the difference & I m one of the latter LOL). And the PM7200 cost less. On the other hand, the NAD C352CT runs at 80 wpc and has a less classic facade on the outside - looks like plastic-feel comparatively. Soundwise u have to listen as there are mixed views. WHF rates NAD C352CT as "Integrated Amp of the Year 2004".

If you r planning to get the Marantz CD7300, it might be worth while to consider the PM7200 - guess they look more matching
Do not get the bigger sibling, NAD C372 as this is the "black sheep" of the prestigious NAD line, even WHF ditched it with a 2 or 3 star rating. It does have lots of watts but mostly plain grunts & lacking in SQ. This NAD372 was the worst amp in one group test if I remember correctly.

I personally like the NAD sound a notch better, more natural and musical for tracks I tested.....one thing to note also about the Marantz CD7300 is it seems to play music at a slower pace (alone u won't realize it, but when u A/B with faster CDP like the Cambridge 640C, Rotel etc... it feels more slow-paced...I also read about this on a website- audioenz i believe).

Good Luck, if I were on your budget RM5000, I would get the Epos M5(~RM1600+, sale price), NAD C352(~RM1600 demo), NADC542 CDP (RM1700+) , some Supra cables

There are many combos to mix & match, that's the beauty of hifi line as compared to the studio setup(using active speakers...which have great sound too but at the same time...u can't change the flavour of the sound to macth your system at times)

Good Luck....



This post has been edited by Omegaminx: Aug 19 2005, 09:59 PM

Dsiew: Try Acoustic Arts in City Square for Epos M5, the RM1650+ was promotion price during AV fest, u can try and see if it's still available for that price and hear the setup first b4 buying.

Scotty: I heard this in a colleague's house, the only difference in his setup was the CD player, he was using a NAD521BEE instead but should be quite the same sonics. Regarding the Marantz CD7300, I just dunno why but the 1st impression on listening to it was music sounded tardively slower, just by a bit, especially after switching CDP to a CA640C/Rotel RA-01, at first I thought it was just me but later I read this:
http://www.audioenz.co.nz/2003/marantz_cd7300.shtml
But this is not saying that it slows everything down, in fact, depending on music taste, u might like the slow but melancholic speed.

I agree that AE Evo 3s are a great buy for ~2k+ (forgot about that), so is the Mission 33i(new model has an i=improved) which got a good WHF rating of 5/5. Apparently IAG has bought over Mission as well, making them boss of Quad, Wharfedale, Mission, Audiolab(amps-coming back). So I suppose we'll see lots of similar designs but different labels - hopefully the characteristic sound of each will be retained. Have read good things about PSB/Energy speakers but only tested the Energy C-3s (Mediaplex) but found them too $$ for the sound (aka can get better speakers for their price).

Cheers!

This post has been edited by Omegaminx: Aug 21 2005, 10:57 AM

dsiew: try Desa Home in LYP or Acoustique System in Amcorp for the NAD CDP 542

dsiew, the NADs are all made in China, not sure about the Silverline series, so are the Quads(that's why u get an excellent finish for modest price), Epos too

The B&W on the other hand is still manufactured in UK, that seems to be the philosophy behind the Bower & Wilkins speakers. But just a note, the 602 S3 are not shielded so try not to use them right next/close to your PC monitor, give them some space away from your TV/monitor should be fine. LCD should be fine too

The B&Ws are usually paired with Rotel from the Hifi mags, but hifi is unique so go ahead with whatever ancillaries you think sound great.

Cables: audioquest is so-so for the $$, i would go with supra rondo biwire, some advocate using silver for the HF post & copper for the LF post as silver conducts the best & is detailed/albeit also a bit bright but copper gives the bass some slam but I just use simple Supra/Chord/QED. Nordost Flatline is good but too $$$

If u r gonna buy, better make a good deal of it soon, otherwise u will likely change your picks again next month, trust me, i've been there...LoL

Cheers

This post has been edited by Omegaminx: Aug 28 2005, 05:54 PM

The B&W should be ~2K and the Quad around that price too , maybe a bit more if u r going for the 12L, 11L is much cheaper.

You can get the Supra from Amcorp Mall, Ampang Park, Desa HT LYP, the Chord from Amcorp and your 1 U, search around can't really remember the names, it has been some time

Cheers

I am using the Quad 12L and they do sound transparent provided the front end & source is up to par.

Also using the Epos M12.2 now in its place. The Quads are definately more classy looking, it even has a netting in both the port holes at the back(shine a torch in and u will see what I mean). Other speakers(I mean even high end ones usually allow you to see directly into the tweeter etc.). The Epos are more dynamic and offer ample detail.

If you are using a small room (3x4m) with space constraints or listening near field(PC style), the 11L will suit you more as the sweet spot has a higher chance of crossing in front of you rather than behind.

I drive my speakers with NADC352CT & a Pioneer A400(original, made in Japan, a legend in its time and still going strong). I must also attest to the Wharfedale 9.1, even stereophile rates them quite highly, I think they beat the Primus 150 and looks better with more solid construction. Bear in mind that, the 9.1 sound quite neutral and they don't wow u at first listen - some might even say they sound flat and hazy(I don't but a dealer friend believes so, it's all personal taste I guess).

At ~ half the price of 11L, The 9.1 are a good buy gavlim, try them out for <1k

Cheers!


This post has been edited by Omegaminx: Oct 30 2005, 04:05 PM

Just to add on, I have no comment on Eltax but they don't seem too hot personally.

Other options to consider apart from Quad11L/Wharfedale 9.1
1)Epos M5 or ELS3
2)B&W 602S3
3)Infinity Primus 150
4)Usher S520 (Singaporeans seem to like this a lot)
5)Monitor Audio RS1 or S1/S2

Excellent mini monitors that need a bull to drive, at least solid 100W to do them justice, but sound excellent with audiophile CDs/vocals:
5)Spendor S3/5se or 3/5 ($$$ sweet mids)
6)ATC SCM7 (world class sound but $$$)
7)Harbeth P3-ES2 ($$$)
8)Dynaudio Audience 42/52/52SE (more of all rounder $$$)
9)ProAc Reference 8 or 8 Sig (braging rights $$$)
10)PMC DB1+ (transmission line, good bass, $$$)
11)Stirling or Richard Allen Ls3/5a (classic back in production, only if you listen to lots of vocal and less bass heavy media $$$$!!)

5)-11) would be at least RM4k and above for those with the heart (and wallet) to spend this kinda moolah

Agree htkaki, they r costly, if u care to pair them up with a musical sub ie. the REL/Hsu, they truly sing but of course, whenever the heart wants to get this monitor-sub system for music, the brain will always butt in to remind us that for the same money, we can get excellent floorstanders or high end "used" speakers, so in the end, not many pursue that route as Ringgit/speaker value is just unfavourable.

Some believe that the best "bang for buck" lies in professional arena, ie. the active speakers made by professional companies like ATC/PMC/Dynaudio/Mackie etc. as they do one of the most optimum matching for drivers and internal amps to give one of the top dollar sounds money can buy. Hifi involves ample mixing and matching to get the right sound or perhaps the individual sound that a particular person likes (which is the beauty of hifi but also a drawback simultaneously for some).

Cheers!

Nice to hear that u have a pair of Spendor Ls3/5a.
You can demo the new V2 stirling Ls3/5a at the MBD, City Square and apart from the finish, the bass has improved and the highs are more extended, well the magical midrange is still preserved (not just my opinion, but also several friends who heard them, some who own not one but few pairs of Ls3/5a 11/15 ohms).

Even Ken Kessler and another Ls3/5a buff applauded the new V2 which as u already know, is designed strictly according to BBC specs using the new custom made Scanspeak/Seas drivers (if I remember correctly). They even have a BBC endorsed certificate to acclaim the new V2 as "BBC acknowledged".

I don't know about the the other mini-monitors but I have been swayed a little by the sound of the ATC SCM7, PMC DB1+ and ProAc Tablette 8 Ref Sig. Each hold its own against one another and of course against the ls3/5a but most of the newer monitors seem to have a more fullrange sound and yet maintain an enticing (but different) midrange warmth (Ls3/5a is actually mainly about midrange sweetness as the lows and highs do lose to many new speakers in its class).
But it is always the reference when comparing mini monitor achievements, that's quite a feat I must say this shoe-box size of a speaker has attained cult status among many audiophiles.

Personally, comparing amongst mini monitors, I find the sound of the ATC SCM7 more pleasing and natural than the Harbeth HL-P3ES2. Initially I was expecting the P3ES2 to give the SCM7 the run for its money, but ATC signature sound is simply more pleasing to the ears, I would describe them as accurate but not till an analytically cold extent, yet very musical.

The P3ES2 are however easier to drive and not overly fussy about the amp driving it (in order to sound good). This was supposed to be the Ls3/5a successor (together with Spendor's S3/5) but never really made the mark with many ls3/5a die hard fans. Nevertheless, I do know a few who still prefer the P3 sound over the Ls3/5a but more (many more) who would choose an ls3/5a sound over the P3 in reality. Harbeth's HL Compact 7 however is really that good and doesn't run too far from RM6k+

Personally, I like the ATC sound over my ls3/5a. Epos M12.2 and Quad 12L both give an instantaneous brighter top end that excites for the first song but if u listen to 10 songs or more, the ATC sound grows on you pretty fast & it has better highs and bass than the legendary ls3/5a (IMHO & several friends') without the artificial midbass hump. Best used near field as intended. Drawback: yes, it takes megawatts to bring out the soul of this speaker, minimum if you budget will also be ~80-100W before it can shine, >100 clean watts is ideal, although the ATC website quotes a range from 50-300W, yup it's 300 whopping watts. So I guess the NAD320BEE can't really foot the bill, u need at least the NADC352 or ideally an AVI/McIntosh/Krell/Bryston etc...to maximise its potential....sometimes quite fussy as u can see but that is partially what hifi is all about at times.

Now with the new Stirling version of Ls3/5a V2 out and costing a hefty RM6k ++ for a shoe box-size monitor (but well built indeed), I might have to audition these a few more times to see if they sound better than the ATCs. For that $$$, other contenders enter the field eg. ATC SCM12, Harbeth HL Compact 7(this is nice), Monitor audio GS10/GR10 but then think of the amp and frontend needed to make them shine ....never ending torment on the wallet.....

Cheers

This post has been edited by Omegaminx: Mar 15 2006, 11:31 PM

Yamaha or Denon for that budget would do music and HT pretty good

Mission has been bought over by the Chinese (IAG) and would probably be distributed in future (soon) by CMS Audio (the distro for Quads/Wharfedale now)

BTW, Quad electrostatic has new model
http://www.audioholics.com/ces/CESspeakers/QuadESL2805.php

Only worry is IAG might economize and use similar design cues for all 3 brands.

Hope they won't though....as u can see in some of the Wharfedale designs now where many use Kevlar cones as was used earlier in the prestige Quads. Even when it comes to subwoofers: Quad subs use trilam technology, and the high end Wharfy subs are following suit with trilam cones (SW350 upwards), of course with all the glossy finish reminiscent of Quad 11/12/21/22Ls.

It would be a hard task to maintain each own's identity under one management but I hope they try their best

Cheers

No real budget?

Better fix a budget estimate as decisions to buy are usually based on that 1st

Why not go for Diamond 9.1 and NAD C320BEE/Cambridge 540A V2 for a starting rig?

Diamond 8.2 are cheaper and offer quite good performance for the price but it's phasing out slowly. For a start, try the QEDs(brighter) or the Supra(more neutral), they practically 'can' those Monster cable big time for the price.

OK, not bad indeed RM2k for amp, if you can stretch it a bit more, you can try the NAD C352 (retail RM2980 but can bargain quite a bit to 2k+ but don't expect too much reduction as popular mag reviews and the respect it has garnered have helped push up the price). Other good stereo amps(for hifi only, not AV) to consider include:
Cambridge Azur 640A V2/Cambridge Azur 540A V2
Marantz PM7001 (new version replacing the PM7200 with good reviews)
Marantz PM7200 (still a feat but slowly phasing out, get them b4 they r gone...)
NAD C320BEE (BEE classic) /Rotel RA02(RA03 is better but more $$$).

Some listed above are a fair bit over your budget (give and take RM500).

Regarding speakers(I assume u want only standmounts, or bookshelfs as they used to call it), the diamond 9.1 only sell for ~RM800 generally and some get them for less. But if your budget is 3k for speakers alone, you should do better and spring for something like: Quad 12L/Vienna Acoustics Hadyn/ Epos M12.2/ Epos M5/ Dynaudio 52/ Dali Ikon 2/ Monitor Audio RS1/ B&W DM602 S3/ PSB B25/ Focal JMLabs 707s(but this model might not be brought in yetdue to it being ~same $$ as JMLab's floorstander).

For more cost-conscious but still bang-for-buck speakers, try: Epos ELS3/ Quad 11L/ Monitor Audio B2/Mordaunt Short 902i(pls ask for the 'i' version, not the plain 902)/AE Evo 1/ Dynaudio 42/ Wharfedale Diamond 9.1/ Infinity Primus 150(Asia's version only comes in Beech colour)/ Usher S520(try Singapore maybe?)/ Ascend CBM-170 SE(this u must import from US but reviews are all glowing and share a cult of its own).

Well, one of those should do it for you as they are general all-purpose speakers for common music genres.

Later, if you have more $$$ to burn , there's another list which consist of ATC/ ProAc/ Harbeth/ Spendor/ higher end B&W + Dynaudio/ Ls3/5a etc..

Happy hunting, the best part usually lies in searching for the desired setup, not actually owning them, as once owned, you will search again for more $$$ stuff to buy. Learn to control this addiction/poison, whichever way you prefer to call it

This post has been edited by Omegaminx: Apr 3 2006, 07:09 PM

Yup, the Quads are good although it might not suit everyone, however its finish is easily furniture grade regardless and really score high WAF. Personally, I like the 12L better than the 11L but if you have a sub at hand, go for the 11L. Otherwise the 12L should paint a more complete picture of the music you play in general.

I actually liked the 11L quite a bit too not to mention its glorious reviews then, well that was until I heard them next to the ATCs(both SCM7 and SCM12 are very ugly & plain like an LS3/5a rotated 90 degrees on its vertical axis) for vocal/jazz, the ATCs just have a flavour of their own that obviously surpasses the 11Ls (you don't even have to think which sounds better or analyse the sound, it just naturally sounds more favourable) but of course the ATCs are fugly ducklings in terms of looks.

The Epos (whether M5 or M12.2) are a bit more detailed and sparklish at the top end
cf to Quads but the 11L/12Ls are smoother and most times more natural sounding (some like this character more I suppose). Too much detail doesn't necessarily = musical enjoyment. HT kaki did a nice job too of summing up the price, I would have thought he was a dealer if I hadn't known him better...Lol

Another favourite of all time is the B&W DM602 S3, tonnes of material for the ~2k, look at the size of those standmounts, almost half a floorstander if you ask me
Sounds very spacious given enough space to breathe, great for bigger living areas, but a no-no in small rooms- can sound congested and boom a little in an enclosed environ.

ProAc is beyond ur budget unless u aim for used. The new Studio 110 cost UK GBP700+ but is another award winner. The smaller ones(functioning as mini monitors) like the Reference 8 signature ~RM6k+. They are as $$$ as ATCs, just that ProAc doesn't make active speakers too like ATCs(their active speakers are the real deal, beats even the Wilson WATT/Grand Slamm for some audiophiles). I like ProAc sound too, enough highs-enough lows-very musically engaging. Funny that I read somewhere that ProAcs are coined as poor-man's ATCs as they did try to clone some ATC models in the past (like Proac studio 3 etc) with ATCs own drivers (like a custom job). I certainly find their sound quite different from each other and ProAcs are definately not cheap these days and very much recognised worldwide for their musicality, certainly no more ATC clones by a far cry (although they still use some ATC drivers, mainly in higher range models like the Response Four flagship, and of course modified Scanspeak tweeters + in-house custom casts)

This post has been edited by Omegaminx: Apr 5 2006, 12:47 AM

Yup! especially the Krell KAV-400i integrated which is actually ~ entry level for Krell, wait till you listen to their pre-power combo...

But $$$