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 Merbau Flooring, House Construction

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OhNooy
post Sep 13 2012, 02:40 PM

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In condominium can we install this type of solid wood? Will it be too heavy for high-rise? From what I read here, seems to be much more promising than the "floating" type 12mm laminated wood.

Anyway, currently my rooms have the old parquet (small stick that type). No matter is this solid wood or the "floating" type of wood, shall I remove the old parquet first?
jady
post Sep 18 2012, 12:36 PM

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Hi all,
I wanted to install solid Merbau flooring on ground floor (interlocking type), installed on top of tiles with layer of foam. Is that possible?
Will the layer of foam prevent moisture problem?
Thanks
terencekks
post Sep 9 2013, 11:04 AM

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im supplying Burmese Walnut Timber Flooring, if you are interested, please do not hesitate to ring me up. TQVM!!!
zoe33
post Apr 14 2014, 11:49 AM

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QUOTE(toffeeman @ Apr 6 2011, 05:27 AM)
I posed something a year back:
The Journey - Wood flooring (Enigma of Building Material) Part 1

Based on the building plan, the first floor, ground floor bedroom,lower ground floor and all staircase will be covered with timber flooring. In addition, at least two of the exterior decks will be wooden deck as well. This translates to almost 3000 ++ sq ft of wooden flooring. Timber flooring is expected to add 'softness' to the supposedly cold modern contemporarist structure that envelopes the exterior of the house. Given the extensive use of wood flooring, this is one of the area we have spent researching over the last one or two months. To my surprise, the technicalities, choices available and practical considerations are so extensive in relation to wood flooring. Sometimes, I am thankful I did the research so as to make an informed decision later on, on the contrary at times I also wonder whether I have read too much and got confused along the way. In any case, I attempt to put in perspective the analysis I have made after months of research and also the discussion I had with various suppliers and people who are in the building industry.

Other than species choices, a buyer like me needs to consider types of wood flooring which can be categorised into:

(a) Solid hardwood
(b) Engineered hardwood
© Laminate flooring.

In this case, laminate flooring is not being considered for the current journey at hand.

In addition, I also need to consider pre-finished or on site finished hardwood. Pre finished means the finishing is done at the factory whereas the latter, the finishing will be completed on site after the flooring is fixed in the house.

Finally, the choice of species is key as different wood species bring different grain, colour and durability into the picture.

Solid vs engineered hardwood

A surfing exercise of the internet will reveal millions of references to this perennial issue in wood flooring. Solid or engineered - that is the question.

Note that '+' is for pros and '-' for cons

Solid hardwood

+ Can be resand many times
+ Cheaper to install : Merbau is RM14++ to supply install, whereas engineered wood hovers around RM18-20++
+ Psychologically feel better, as you are perceived to pay for the whole exotic wood plank
+ Full 18mm plank can be obtained
- May have a problem if installed at the lower ground floor
- Buckling and ripping
- Gaps appear in the long run
- Workmanship very dependent on the 'master' on site
- Need to make sure the wood is really really kiln dried otherwise big problem will emerge

Engineered wood

+ 70% more stable than solid hardwood
+ Easier to install
+ Minimum buckling and ripping
+ Can install at lower ground floor with proper waterproof underlay
+ Enviromentally friendly. The sub-surface layers are made from "junk" or "scrap" wood, not the ornamental wood. This approach saves more forests because each tree of the desired ornamental wood can go further than it does with solid wood flooring.
- Can be more expensive than solid hardwood
- Psychologically feel cheated if its more expensive than solid hardwood
- Not nice for staircase as engineered wood normally come in tounge and groove version (T&G)and not the Surfaced Four Side (S4S) version
- Only come in 14mm thickness rather than 18mm
- Limited sanding

What you can see is that there is always a compromise somewhere and one cannot have the cake and eat it in this situation. In this respect,personal priorities will likely to determine the option chosen.

Prefinished vs unfinished flooring

I always thought prefinished is superior as the finishing is likely to be more durable and that is an important consideration as I have a young family with little gals and boys running around. Because sanding and finishing are not required, a pre-finished floor is completed relatively quickly without the dust, noise and fumes that can accompany the on-site finishing process.

The species

We have actually narrowed down to about a number contenders with some dark horses. The contenders are as follows:

Doussie
What we like about Doussie is the grain and the colour. The grain being wavy is unusual and its not too reddish compared to Jatoba.The unique grain feature displays a perfect fit and finish every time, which creates an instant modern, chic environment. As with most exotic species, Doussie will become darker in color and richer looking as the floor ages - something we are looking for. One final strong point is that it is considered a hard species, this selection comes in at a durable 1,770 PSI (pounds per square inch) under the Janka Hardness Ranking.

Walnut
Walnut floors are proving to be so popular because the wood here is actually considered to improve in the way it looks as time passes. The natural veining and curling grain effect of this wood also often give it an individual style that you simply will not get with many other flooring woods. Many walnut floors are laid for their colour depth and richness. One reservation I have is that a slight variation of colour may result in a country rather than a modern contemporary feel hence a risk of mismatch. Also, given its a temperate wood, not sure how would it adapt to the tropical weather in Malaysia.

Belian
This is more for external deck. What interest us to this species is the durability. Its not called ironwood for nothing and apparently it also darkens as it ages. One thing though is that the grain is not exactly very striking.

Merbau
Merbau is the dark horse here as it is easily available in Malaysia and is cost effective given its local nature. Durable and easily adaptable to local environment but could be 'too common' for liking.

Well, currently these are the species we are seriously considering and it may change between now and when we make the final decision
*
what was your final decision and how was the outcome? mind sharing any pictures? thanks.
PangurBan
post Apr 14 2014, 03:48 PM

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All the solid timber places I've asked tell me I'll have to remove my existing parquet floor, redo the concrete slab underneath and let that cure for one month before they can begin to lay a solid timber floor. This is what has put me off having a proper timber floor installed on my first floor and led me to consider laminate cry.gif and engineered wood.

Now Maha Asia Parquet tells me that if my cement subfloor is sound, they can lay the solid timber floor for me on battens without my having to redo the concrete thingy.

I'd appreciate any thoughts comments on this.
mrgoodgood
post Apr 14 2014, 04:00 PM

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QUOTE(PangurBan @ Apr 14 2014, 03:48 PM)
All the solid timber places I've asked tell me I'll have to remove my existing parquet floor, redo the concrete slab underneath and let that cure for one month before they can begin to lay a solid timber floor.  This is what has put me off having a proper timber floor installed on my first floor and led me to consider laminate  cry.gif and engineered wood.

Now Maha Asia Parquet tells me that if my cement subfloor is sound, they can lay the solid timber floor for me on battens without my having to redo the concrete thingy. 

I'd appreciate any thoughts comments on this.
*
I remember talking to a guy at Lumbermart (looks quite senior and experienced, like a boss) during a fair. He actually told me the existing parquet floor can be used to replace the batten, which means you just need to lay the floor board on top of the existing parquet. It makes some sense, because the parquet is also made of hardwood and is already level. The only disadvantage is that there are no space for the wood to 'breath'. I supposed it is the same case as S4S floor boards.
PangurBan
post Apr 14 2014, 04:07 PM

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QUOTE(mrgoodgood @ Apr 14 2014, 04:00 PM)
I remember talking to a guy at Lumbermart (looks quite senior and experienced, like a boss) during a fair. He actually told me the existing parquet floor can be used to replace the batten, which means you just need to lay the floor board on top of the existing parquet. It makes some sense, because the parquet is also made of hardwood and is already level. The only disadvantage is that there are no space for the wood to 'breath'. I supposed it is the same case as S4S floor boards.
*
I wouldn't hire anyone who offers to lay a solid timber floor directly on my existing parquet floor! The point is my parquet tiles are popping out and the whole thing is uneven, and I thought the whole point of laying the timber planks on battens was so that the battens can compensate for any unevenness. Besides, parquet tiles are too thin to drive nails through.
mrgoodgood
post Apr 14 2014, 04:31 PM

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QUOTE(PangurBan @ Apr 14 2014, 04:07 PM)
I wouldn't hire anyone who offers to lay a solid timber floor directly on my existing parquet floor!  The point is my parquet tiles are popping out and the whole thing is uneven, and I thought the whole point of laying the timber planks on battens was so that the battens can compensate for any unevenness.  Besides, parquet tiles are too thin to drive nails through.
*
I'm just repeating that that guy told me. I, too, removed my existing parquet before laying the new battens and flooring. That's the right way to do. But if you have cost/timing concern, well you need to make sacrifices then.

I can't imagine how is your existing parquet floor 'uneven'. It cannot be more uneven than the cement floor after removing the parquets, due to the glue and parquet residue, right?

Also, you say the parquet is too thin to drive nails through? Hmm isn't it easier to drive nails through if it is thin? Cengal batten is 10mm. How thick is your parquet?
PangurBan
post Apr 14 2014, 04:48 PM

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QUOTE(mrgoodgood @ Apr 14 2014, 04:31 PM)
I'm just repeating that that guy told me. I, too, removed my existing parquet before laying the new battens and flooring. That's the right way to do. But if you have cost/timing concern, well you need to make sacrifices then.

I can't imagine how is your existing parquet floor 'uneven'. It cannot be more uneven than the cement floor after removing the parquets, due to the glue and parquet residue, right?

Also, you say the parquet is too thin to drive nails through? Hmm isn't it easier to drive nails through if it is thin? Cengal batten is 10mm. How thick is your parquet?
*
Only one cm? That's thin! I imagine they'd use a staple gun to drive staples at a 45° angle into the groove so they'd be concealed. This would go right through the parquet and hit the cement subfloor. The other thing is, if the parquet pops out so easily, there's nothing to stop them popping out after the timber floor has been laid, and out pops your timber planks as well.

I'm prepared to endure a bit of mess for the floor to be laid properly. What I can't stomach would be to have the concrete floor redone. So you didn't have to have your concrete floor hacked and redone?
mrgoodgood
post Apr 14 2014, 04:57 PM

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QUOTE(PangurBan @ Apr 14 2014, 04:48 PM)
Only one cm?  That's thin!  I imagine they'd use a staple gun to drive staples at a 45° angle into the groove so they'd be concealed.  This would go right through the parquet and hit the cement subfloor.  The other thing is, if the parquet pops out so easily, there's nothing to stop them popping out after the timber floor has been laid, and out pops your timber planks as well.

I'm prepared to endure a bit of mess for the floor to be laid properly.  What I can't stomach would be to have the concrete floor redone.  So you didn't have to have your concrete floor hacked and redone?
*
The timber flooring work is undergoing at my house currently, so a lot of things are still fresh in my mind tongue.gif.

1. They actually glue the 10mm Cengal batten to the floor, and then nail it down using the nail gun, so yes, the nail is driven into the cement subfloor.

2. After that, the timber planks (mine is 18mm) are laid and glued on top of the Cengal batten. Nails are driven at 45 degrees angle into the groove onto the Cengal batten. I'm not sure if the nail can reach the cement subfloor, but I think it doesn't matter.

3. If parquet is used, I don't think it will pop up easily after you lay the timber planks on top, because timber planks are a lot wider and longer. You will need many parquet to pop up simultaneously in order for the timber plank to pop up. Also, remember you will be nailing down the timber planks.

4. Yes, I have my concrete floor hacked, redone, and wait for a month to cure smile.gif.

PangurBan
post Apr 14 2014, 05:13 PM

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QUOTE(mrgoodgood @ Apr 14 2014, 04:57 PM)
The timber flooring work is undergoing at my house currently, so a lot of things are still fresh in my mind tongue.gif.

1. They actually glue the 10mm Cengal batten to the floor, and then nail it down using the nail gun, so yes, the nail is driven into the cement subfloor.

2. After that, the timber planks (mine is 18mm) are laid and glued on top of the Cengal batten. Nails are driven at 45 degrees angle into the groove onto the Cengal batten. I'm not sure if the nail can reach the cement subfloor, but I think it doesn't matter.

3. If parquet is used, I don't think it will pop up easily after you lay the timber planks on top, because timber planks are a lot wider and longer. You will need many parquet to pop up simultaneously in order for the timber plank to pop up. Also, remember you will be nailing down the timber planks.

4. Yes, I have my concrete floor hacked, redone, and wait for a month to cure smile.gif.
*
aiyo rclxub.gif cry.gif

Can gimme more details or not? Talking to Maha Asia Parquet now.

This post has been edited by PangurBan: Apr 14 2014, 05:13 PM
mrgoodgood
post Apr 14 2014, 05:30 PM

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Hmm.. more details.. let's see:

- I did not engage with Maha Asia Parquet because they only have Merbau. But I did enquire before, as well as some other providers. I think most providers will tell you that you need to remove the parquet and redo the cement sub floor, because that's the easiest and safest to work with.

- However, I do believe what the guy from Lumbermart say, because Lumbermart is a trusted brand and I have never heard anyone complain about them before. Also, as I have explained earlier, the function is the same.

- When installing solid timber flooring, there are a number of installation methods. S4S is essentially the same as parquet, except that the planks are larger in size. T&G can be installed with or without batten. If you install without batten, then I think it is glued and nailed down to the cement subfloor too.

- Installation with batten is better, because it gives the underside of the wood more breathing space. Also, if water spills on the floor, at least your wooden flooring won't be submerged in water for a pro-longed period. Any hardwood can be used as batten, the harder the better. Cengal batten is the most common, but I'm not sure why. Maybe it is relatively cheap and sturdy.

- If you hack away the parquet, there will be glue and some wooden residue on the cement subfloor. Also some of the cement will come off together with the parquet. It is not easy to clean it up. The usual method is to level the sub-floor with more cement.

- Once you redo the sub-floor, you need to wait for it to cure. This is important because otherwise the moisture will eat into the wood.

- Once the batten and timber flooring is laid (without skirting), you need to wait for 3 weeks for the wood to settle down. You can paint the first coat of paint now.

- After 3 weeks, the floor will be sanded, polished, and coating will be applied. I recommend water-based, matt coating, as it will be more resistant to scratches. It will still scratch, but not as easy and not so obvious.

Erm... Did I miss anything? Hope this helps. To all other sifu, please feel free to correct me if what I said is wrong. I'm no expert in this...




PangurBan
post Apr 14 2014, 06:27 PM

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Thanks for a detailed reply. Looks like I might have to put my first floor out of action for three months.
PangurBan
post Apr 27 2014, 11:16 AM

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Getting my parquet removed now. Will redo the cement subfloor in one part and just touch up the craters in the rest.
PangurBan
post Apr 27 2014, 01:36 PM

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.

This post has been edited by PangurBan: May 4 2014, 03:01 PM
allyz
post May 4 2014, 12:40 PM

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This forum is certainly informative! May I know if you have any feedback or opinion on S4S versus Tongue & Groove timber flooring system? I noticed there are many offers on S4S timber flooring in homedec.
cuttyflam
post Jun 3 2014, 07:01 PM

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Not sure if this thread is still active. anyway i just call Maha asia parquet and they quoted me this :
Merbau planks 14thk x 71w x 1-4ft L - RM 10psf (for more than 500sqft )
- RM 12psf for less than 500 sqft
upgrade to water based coat - add rm3 psf
upgrade to Bona (??? range) coat - add rm4 psf
underlay cengal - rm3 psf
skirting - 5.50 (3") and 6.50 (4")

How's the price?
is 14mm too thin?
is the water based coat too expensive?

As i m staying in the room currently, can i lay the timber on top of the parquet instead of batten?

thanks!!
weikee
post Jun 3 2014, 07:13 PM

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QUOTE(cuttyflam @ Jun 3 2014, 07:01 PM)
Not sure if this thread is still active. anyway i just call Maha asia parquet and they quoted me this :
Merbau planks 14thk x 71w x 1-4ft L - RM 10psf (for more than 500sqft )
                                                      - RM 12psf for less than 500 sqft
upgrade to water based coat - add rm3 psf
upgrade to Bona (??? range) coat - add rm4 psf
underlay cengal - rm3 psf
skirting - 5.50 (3") and 6.50 (4")

How's the price?
is 14mm too thin?
is the water based coat too expensive?

As i m staying in the room currently, can i lay the timber on top of the parquet instead of batten?

thanks!!
*
Price didn't change much. Batten install method is better. You need to remove the parque and level the floor before putting solid wood.
PangurBan
post Jun 3 2014, 08:42 PM

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They charged me RM20 for 18mm thick planks with chengal battens and water-based finishing for an area less than 500 sq ft. They gave me a choice of laying the planks directly on the parquet, or taking them out first and touching up the cement sub-floor; I chose the latter.

This post has been edited by PangurBan: Jun 3 2014, 08:44 PM
yeeloon8
post Oct 12 2014, 12:21 AM

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Hi peeps, am considering to re-do my existing staircase that comes with my unit..

The current staircase looks like below (taken off from iprop site):
Attached Image

And change it to something like the below with the tread using solid hardwood and riser using cement.
Attached Image
Attached Image

Not sure what the existing wood type is but it seems solid but i was told by my contractor that it the bottom surface of the wood is not smooth and flat should i intend to re-use back on the 'new' concrete/cement staircase. So, am considering on how much does it cost to install hardwood for staircase (23 pieces of it) with each length about 11"x43.5".

I wonder how much would it cost to buy and install... Can someone advice.

Thanks!

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