Like Redshaun, I'm getting tired of reading anti-Torres posts. Ironic since we call Everton, "The Bitters" eh? Who's bitter now? We should spend more time wishing ourselves well than others ill. It's all so hypocritical in my opinion.

Not the best of performances last night but in the end it's 3 points in the bag and given that this is only Sunderland's 4th home loss the whole season, it is some achievement. If Dalglish's track record is anything to go by, we would be 2nd in the table had he been in charge from the beginning of the season. His record since taking over is on par with Arsenal's. Despite some of the negativity I've seen being thrown around in there especially after the losses to West Ham and Braga, there is a lot to be optimistic about.

Were we lucky last night? Lucky to get the penalty? Hell yeah. Kevin Frend got it right and his assistant got it wrong, it was clear as day. Were we lucky to win? Not if you ask me. Sunderland did have a lot of possession but does anyone remember Reina making a save? We created the best chances of the match despite Sunderland having more of the ball. Carroll won everything in the air but his touch on the ground was a little heavy. Possibly a symptom from being out injured for so long. Super bit of work from Suarez. He saw that Mignolet had shifted his body weight to the right anticipation the ball to be played across goal, and instinctively poked the ball in the near post.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Mar 21 2011, 12:00 PM

Well I am a fan of Torres which is exactly why I don't see the need to continue to lambast him.



I wouldn't exactly say that our midfield was "all over the place". I think we played deep and thus invited Sunderland onto us. I also think that whilst they had the possession, we made it difficult for them to muster any attempts on goal, bar the first 15-20 mins. I think Spearing and Lucas provided the back four with sufficient cover. Sunderland only 1 hot shot on target the whole game (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/report?id=293059&cc=4716)

I didn't say posters can't badmouth him. I said I don't agree with it for reasons given earlier. We call Everton "the Bitters" because they're always taking the piss out of us. We laugh when mancs cheer on Rooney, then villify him when he wanted to leave and not cheer him again. So why are now are we doing the same thing? Will it happen again if Reina leaves?

Well fairplay to those who continue to moan about him but do not use, "we are the best fans" in each of their posts. Do continue to give him stick but don't make a big deal out of our opponents when they crucify their players for leaving. The most recent example of this was Rooney's. Are the same posters who knock Torres, the same ones who laughed at the mancs? I don't know the answers and if you want to go out criticising Torres, please go ahead but don't be a hypocrite.

Not saying I won't feel hurt. I'm saying there is no point in being bitter about it. Since you used a "friend" as an example, let me just share that the reason I am still good friend with all my ex's whether they left me, cheated on me or whether I left them is because I don't believe in holding grudges. To answer your questions, I'd be hurt but it doesn't mean that I won't remember all the good times spent together and it doesn't mean I will never forgive, because I will.

To Mr. Digilife who likes that this is a public forum, it is which is why we are allowed to post opposing viewpoints. If I recall, you've been a Liverpool supporter for several years. You've seen players come, and you've seen players go. You should by now understand the Liverpool way of life and if I understand it as well as you do, it doesn't encourage the burning of jerseys when players leave, nor does it teach us to hate. For a guy who was soooo optimistic (albeit blindly) and positive at the start of the season, I'm surprised you condone such negativity.

In the past, fans would applaud rival players if they scored a super goal, or if a keeper made a good save. They would applaud the opposition off if they played well even if it meant they beat us. The Anfield faithful would never boo our own team, but instead sing YNWA at the end of each game, win or lose. I believe in this kind of fan. It blows to see an opposition striker hit a winner at the end of the game, knocking us out of a cup competition, but yet, we give credit where it's due. It blows to see Torres leave, but it's disheartening that we should focus on that instead of what he's contributed whilst he was with us.

Do you see anyone still criticising Torres on RAWK? (http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?board=2.0)

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Mar 21 2011, 03:05 PM

Yup, Owen still gets stick as does McManaman (Bosman transfer) as does Souness (Sun interview) but by the vast majority of Liverpool fans? There is of course a split in opinions, I'm just trying to justify mine. If any posters wants to justify continously bashing Torres, please do so. I've stated my opinions on why I think we should stop. Some of these opinions may not matter, and some of them, posters may not be able to relate to. I have personally never booed Owen, Mcmanaman or Souness. In fact, I don't talk much about their "betrayal". The only former Red I still criticise is El-Hadji Diouf and that's because he is a cheat and lacks ethics. Torres may not have left under the best of circumstances but he did state from day 1 that he was leaving Atletico Madrid for titles. He did promise his fans that he would return to the club. I admire this. All I know is that when I used the words, "Torres" and "You'll Never Walk Alone" in the same sentence, as I'm sure many of you did, it meant that I made a pledge that under whatever circumstances, I will at least endevour to try to remember him in a positive light.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Mar 21 2011, 03:36 PM

Fair enough, I wasn't targetting your post in particular incidentally.

I can't help but feel a little peeved when the first topic I come across in the morning on OUR thread isn't about how our team is doing, but about the Mancs have lost or how Torres still hasn't scored. Noticed I said, TOPIC (i.e. a string of posts on the subject) and not just a single post or two. Do we still need to curse him and hope he never has a successful career? I've noticed so many posters go on about being the best fans, and all we do is curse our rivals? Maybe "best" and "class" don't necessarily go hand-in-hand.

Fans do need to be reminded of the past, good or bad. It's why you will come across a post or two on Owen and McManaman. Few remember Souness' interview with the Sun. I see no reason however for us to continue to hurl daggers at them to the extent we come across as bitter. Like I said earlier, when we go "Torres, YNWA", or "Owen, YNWA", did we really mean it? Doesn't matter if the words YNWA mean anything to them, it should matter to us.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Mar 21 2011, 04:17 PM

Had a peek and although the thread is on Torres, the last few pages are hardly vindictive. More along the ,"ah well, he's gone, time to move on" vibe.

That being said, Anfield has changed. I cited examples earlier of the Kop applauding visiting keepers but this is a thing of the past. Doesn't happen as often anymore. Now, the "patient" fans at Anfield have learned to boo our team as well, something almost unheard off at Anfield. Stadiums in general have also become more quiet. This is due to more and more OOTs/touritsts buying tickets. History and tradition are words destined to be lost if the fans choose to ignore it.

Yes, it's true. Since taking over Dalglish has a record comparable only by Arsenal.

There is no guarantee that the players you mentioned won't leave this season with us already out of the Champions League, and unlikely candidates for the last Europa spot.

I'll be the first to admit that we were shelling out $18 million pounds on Johnson when we had a perfectly capable guy there in the shape of Alvaro Arbeloa. I never really rated Johnson but I must admit that when going forward, he's one of the best fullbacks in the league. I think that the decision to let him go or sell him will be purely a business one. Johnson is approaching his 30's and a player's value drops as he enters his 3rd decade. If a good offer comes along, why not given that we have Kelly in the wings? Yes, it's good to have a backup but when we find a leftback, neither Kelly nor Johnson will be content playing second fiddle. In the meantime, let's just enjoy watching him bombarding runs down the flank. Another reason I feel Dirk Kuyt starts whenever he's fit is because he tracks back to cover for Johnson when the latter is off exploring enemy territory.

Shouldn't matter mate. We are fans of Liverpool Football Club first and foremost right? As Carra always says,"club comes first". Shouldn't matter if big stars like Gerrard can't come. What matters is that we show our support unconditionally.

I don't mind if everyone agrees to it.

The most economical way would be to make our own. Google some examples.

I'd be delighted if Gerrard retires from international footy. Am not a fan of England and I'd hate for him to get injured playing some meaningless friendly when were fighting for points.

Spearing is a product of the academy. We didn't "buy" him. Don't overlook the fact that he is a local lad and former captain of the youth team that won back to back FA Cups. Whilst he isn't on the same level as Gerrard, his passion for the club and the game are invaluable. Is he soft? I've seen him make some hard challenges. Maybe I was watching a different game?

Lest we forget, Hodgson used to play Kyrgiakos up front when we were chasing a goal in the same way Samba is pushed forward for Blackburn during desperate times.

Yes I know what he meant.

Bringing Rafa back will the a step in the wrong direction of you ask me. I've always been very vocal about my opinion on this matter. Forget the credentials. He simply cannot get along with the top brass at any club. It happened at Valencia, it happened here and it happened at Inter Milan. For the record, I think we played efficient football but with the exception of the final third of the 2008/2009 season, I think this we played beautiful football. Our opinions on what "beautiful football" constitutes may differ but I thought we were as interesting to watch as Mourinho's Chelsea, though nowhere near as boring as Houllier's team.

I don't think we need to revisit our argument on Rafa so I'm just going to say that given our current situation, it would not be wise to bring in a man who lost the dressing room. Morale is high at the moment and King Kenny is doing better than expected. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, he has accumulated more points in the time he's been in charge than any other Premier League team bar Arsenal. He also has the respect of the lads. The players look much happier now and I honestly believe that King Kenny is better at getting the best out of his players. Both have a stark contrast in their approach. Whilst Rafa is methodical and overly scientific at times, I won't find it surprising if all Kenny says before the lads step out on the pitch is, "alright lads, just go out there and have a good time". As Shankly once said, "Football is a simple game made complicated by people who should know better".

Incidentally if any of you have not watched The 51st State starring Samuel L. Jackson, Meatloaf and Robert Carlyle who plays a passionate Liverpool fan, go download it. Look for the scene where Carlyle walks into a manc pub

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Added on March 27, 2011, 7:28 pmIt was well publicized that the Pope was a Liverpool fan hence the song about Man Utd going to Rome to see the Pope (http://terracechants.me.uk/chant/1431). Not sure when he started to support the club though. Maybe Rome '84 had something to do with it. Maybe it was divine influence and not Grobbelar's spaghetti legs routine that helped us:)

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Mar 27 2011, 07:28 PM

More on the Carragher - Nani debacle.