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 The Great Tiling WM Adventure + Some Wireless Stuf, Hosted by G-17

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TSfarkinid
post Mar 2 2011, 03:58 PM, updated 15y ago

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Ok guys, I've decided that enough is enough and my ubuntu login is broken. I can't even get to my login screen. The background just appears and then nothing happens. The mouse, sound, everything is working but nothing is showing (except for the background).

So, I guess im going to uninstall GDM and go with scrot. Or maybe icewm. Stupid ubuntu updates. Broke my laptop.

This post has been edited by farkinid: Jul 14 2011, 12:21 AM
powerwoot
post Mar 2 2011, 04:10 PM

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lol! 1st question, why ubuntu? when there are still lotsa super duper distros out there.
TSfarkinid
post Mar 2 2011, 04:31 PM

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Err... because ubuntu is install friendly. Minimal configurations etc. This is a work laptop and I have tons of sensitive data inside it. I think i installed ubuntu 9.10 the moment it came out... slightly over a year ago i think.

It seemed fine. Who knew that a year plus later they'd break my laptop
G-17
post Mar 3 2011, 12:22 AM

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@Farkinid
Did you try reinstalling GDM first?
Also, while in a TTY, what does gdmstart tell you?

Also, if you're the only user on the computer, the basic startx should suffice.
If you're willing to try it, just uninstall or disable gdm, then creat a ~/.xinitrc and put this line in it;
CODE
exec ck-launch-session gnome-session

then you can start it manually each time you boot with "startx"

I'm not on Ubuntu/Gnome, nor do I use GDM, but maybe the Ubuntu forums has threads about GDM-related problems, or maybe there's some PPA somewhere with a fixed/updated version of GDM?
Eventless
post Mar 3 2011, 09:00 AM

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It is probably a good time to update to a more recent version of ubuntu since 9.10 will no longer receive support after April 2011. If you don't want to do upgrades so often, try using the LTS version of ubuntu. The most recent one is 10.04 LTS which is supported until 2013 for desktop or 2015 for server.
TSfarkinid
post Mar 3 2011, 09:10 AM

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Hey G-17.

Its more than just the GDM. After 1 update the GDM doesn't work, Gnome Desktop Environment's applets have errors AND to top it off, my video drivers stopped working. After many hours of troubleshooting I have now uninstalled GDM and GDE.

I've tried moving from fglrx to mesa but I think the kernel is still pointing to the proprietary drivers. Currently my boot error is as follows :-
CODE
(EE) open /dev/fb0: No such file or directory
(EE) AIGLX error: dlopen of /usr/libdri/r600_dri.so failed (/usr/lib/dri/r600_dri.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory)
(EE) AIGLX: reverting to software rendering


For the record, my drivers shouldn't be the r600. It should be RS880. I am so confused rclxub.gif
Eventless
post Mar 3 2011, 10:42 AM

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It is possible that your xorg.conf file is still referring to the fglrx driver. Try reconfiguring the xorg to use a different driver. Vesa should work in most cases.
CODE

sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg

TSfarkinid
post Mar 3 2011, 11:50 AM

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QUOTE(Eventless @ Mar 3 2011, 10:42 AM)
It is possible that your xorg.conf file is still referring to the fglrx driver. Try reconfiguring the xorg to use a different driver. Vesa should work in most cases.
CODE

sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg

*
Yup, thats what I thought in the 1st place. so I completely re-wrote the xorg.conf to use vesa. Result, the current set of errors you see. Before this, it was a different set of errors.

I've even tried to use Envy to fix the issue. But I get a different set of errors.
Eventless
post Mar 3 2011, 12:57 PM

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What did you update before this problem occurred? Was it the kernel? Is it possible that you don't have the ATI drivers installed for the new kernel? Did you use Envy before that?

Like I've said before, it is probably a good time to upgrade the ubuntu that you are using to a more recent version. Hopefully the upgrade will fix the problem that you are having. Do a backup before hand.
TSfarkinid
post Mar 3 2011, 01:02 PM

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QUOTE(Eventless @ Mar 3 2011, 12:57 PM)
What did you update before this problem occurred? Was it the kernel? Is it possible that you don't have the ATI drivers installed for the new kernel? Did you use Envy before that?

Like I've said before, it is probably a good time to upgrade the ubuntu that you are using to a more recent version. Hopefully the upgrade will fix the problem that you are having. Do a backup before hand.
*
Mmmmm, I can't remember what the upgrade was. I know I was kinda busy on another computer and just let the upgrade run. I don't think its the kernel either but I can't be too sure. I've never used Envy before.

Looks like a friggin reinstall is in order. Only 1 issue now, how to backup my thunderbird mails? Exporting them out to eml doesn't save the attachments. Also, I have problems loading thunderbird now. I'm more worried about the attachments than anything else.
Eventless
post Mar 3 2011, 01:56 PM

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This should give you some idea on how to backup thunderbird.

This post has been edited by Eventless: Mar 3 2011, 02:31 PM
TSfarkinid
post Mar 3 2011, 02:53 PM

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Thanks man. I'll read that. Also, any suggestions for a distro to use? I'm starting to get hooked on the scrotwm
Eventless
post Mar 3 2011, 03:16 PM

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Just try to upgrade your ubuntu and see whether that fixes your problem or not. With any luck, your problem will be solved and all your data would still be. Just make a backup of your home directory before doing the upgrade just to be sure. Reinstall if that doesn't work.

If your home folder is on a different partition, don't format it. Reuse it. Either create a user with the same username or different one. If you create a different one, copy all the files from the previous user into the new user's home folder. You may need to be root to do this. Set the user and group ownership of all the files and directory in the home directory to that of the current user. Even if you recreate a user with the same name, the uid and guid maybe different so you still need to reset the user and group ownership of the files and directories in the user's home folder.

Not too sure about other distros so can't help there.
TSfarkinid
post Mar 4 2011, 09:44 AM

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Oh just after I made the decision to move distro, I decided to lshw my lappy and I found this
CODE
*-display UNCLAIMED


The reason for my errors is that its not loading my drivers. I think I'll try another round with xorg.conf before giving up. TAK PUAS HATI!!! vmad.gif
G-17
post Mar 4 2011, 11:55 AM

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@farkinid
Sorry I wasn't here (too much work) and sorry for misunderstanding you're earlier question. I thought it was just GDM. If I had know it was more serious, I'd have checked in here more often.

It would be good if you remembered what it is you updated. Might have helped narrow it down earlier. It's most probably Xorg-related.

What specs are your computer? fglrx is ATI, right? (sorry, never used that card before, so I'm unfamiliar)If that's the case, I think the problem might stem from either ATI or Xorg devs always moving certain models of cards from main to legacy, though I could be mistaken here. for ATI, this might help = http://wiki.x.org/wiki/radeonhd

If you haven't moved distro or upgraded to a more recent Ubuntu yet, you could post your xorg.conf and your /etc/X11/XF86Config here, to help us understand what goes on in your system normally. I think "Screen" section on either might give some clues, based on the last error message you posted.

BTW, I didn't know you used ScrotWM. If you're looking for another distro, you could do a minimal Ubuntu (mini.iso or command-line install from alternate iso) and just add what you need, or maybe a Debian netinstall of Squeeze (and upgrade your sources to Testing if desired), or Crunchbang (good community, relatively light distro) if you want Apt. Other options are Arch or Crux if you can find the time (though they're not the "install and forget" types and require a bit of care).

One note if you plan to upgrade your existing install. I think for Ubuntu yu can only upgrade to the next version (10.04 in your case) each time. so if you plan to get the latest version (11.04), you'll need to download each iso and upgrade version by version. It'd be better to just save your configs and home folder in an ext-HDD and do a clean install of whatever version/distro you desire.

I'll check back in later after I get home from work.
TSfarkinid
post Mar 4 2011, 12:13 PM

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QUOTE(G-17 @ Mar 4 2011, 11:55 AM)
@farkinid
Sorry I wasn't here (too much work) and sorry for misunderstanding you're earlier question. I thought it was just GDM. If I had know it was more serious, I'd have checked in here more often.

It would be good if you remembered what it is you updated. Might have helped narrow it down earlier. It's most probably Xorg-related.

What specs are your computer? fglrx is ATI, right? (sorry, never used that card before, so I'm unfamiliar)If that's the case, I think the problem might stem from either ATI or Xorg devs always moving certain models of cards from main to legacy, though I could be mistaken here. for ATI, this might help = http://wiki.x.org/wiki/radeonhd

If you haven't moved distro or upgraded to a more recent Ubuntu yet, you could post your xorg.conf and your /etc/X11/XF86Config here, to help us understand what goes on in your system normally.  I think "Screen" section on either might give some clues, based on the last error message you posted.

BTW, I didn't know you used ScrotWM. If you're looking for another distro, you could do a minimal Ubuntu (mini.iso or command-line install from alternate iso) and just add what you need, or maybe a Debian netinstall of Squeeze (and upgrade your sources to Testing if desired), or Crunchbang (good community, relatively light distro) if you want Apt. Other options are Arch or Crux if you can find the time (though they're not the "install and forget" types and require a bit of care).

One note if you plan to upgrade your existing install. I think for Ubuntu yu can only upgrade to the next version (10.04 in your case) each time. so if you plan to get the latest version (11.04), you'll need to download each iso and upgrade version by version. It'd be better to just save your configs and home folder in an ext-HDD and do a clean install of whatever version/distro you desire.

I'll check back in later after I get home from work.
*
Thanks for the assist guys (Eventless and G-17). To be honest, the only reason I want to fix it is to understand what went wrong. Whether or not I manage to fix it, I've decided to move to a different distro. Ubuntu has been great while it lasted but I am getting better progress on Debian and our own SimpleLinux (although slax still confuses the crap out of me).

As for ScrotWM, I only started when my GDM + GDE + drivers broke. Decided its time for a new adventure in Linux (eventhough my iptables transparent firewall isn't ready). So far I'm really liking Scrot + dwm although I haven't really found the line that separates the two. And I still haven't figured out how to customize it.

Distro-wise, I want to move to something that will is just install + 1st configuration and then forget. This lappy has waaaaay to much sensitive data. I like the idea of Debian or Crunchbang. I've been looking at both (also i haz preference for apt).

My comp (very long. beware):
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

G-17
post Mar 4 2011, 07:44 PM

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That's your lshw output isn't it, dear?
Do you have a /etc/X11/XF86Config file? If yes, could you post the contents as well, or that of an equivalent xorg.conf if you have one.

This might be risky, but you could add a Debian mirror to your sources list, and have it point to its unstable branch, and then upgrade your xorg and video drivers, but it could break everything further, so I advice against it, but it is an option. I'm not quite sure how Ubuntu configures Apt these days, but you might have to do some apt-pinning if you do upgrade xorg via Debian Unstable sources, since it might default back to downgrading the Ubuntu 9.10 version on the next update/upgrade.

Also, it looks like a AMD-Turion laptop with an ATI gfx chipset that shares your physical memory. If that's true, than you initial attempt at getting the mesa stack working would have obviously failed since mesa is for Intel chipsets, which your laptop's motherboard most probably does not have. AMD systems usually don't have any Intel graphics/wireless/controller chipsets on board, whether desktop or laptop, as far as I know.


QUOTE(farkinid @ Mar 4 2011, 12:13 PM)
As for ScrotWM, I only started when my GDM + GDE + drivers broke. Decided its time for a new adventure in Linux (eventhough my iptables transparent firewall isn't ready). So far I'm really liking Scrot + dwm although I haven't really found the line that separates the two. And I still haven't figured out how to customize it.
I think howtoforge has/had some good articles on iptables... you might want to check em out in future.

I think I once posted a 'template' scrotwm.conf file somewhere on these forums, which members liek Acid_RuleZ sorta liked (I hope). I could help you make a simple one as a starting point if you want. Also have some old DWM config.h files, though these were for very specialized behavious, so I doubt a DWM-virgin would find wm useful. I could also cook-up a template DWM config for you, but it might take some time, as I've been a bit out of touch with it.

ScrotWM and DWM have a similar feel to them, but Scrot (imho) is much more sensible. It's also a tad faster (noticeable only on old hardware prolly, I doubt there'll be a difference on a modern multi-core processor) and doesn't require you to recompile everytime you change the config file like you need to for DWM. They're both written in C mostly, but Scrot is configured in plain human syntax (English), while DWM is configured in C. DWM has been around longer, so it's better on the stability front, and there are a lot of patches available that give specialized tiling layouts like a spiralled or Fibonacci sequence inspired view. There are also special forks of it like the Dwm-Sprinkles mod. I personally prefer ScrotWM for my tiling (I was a long time DWM user, even contributed patches directly to Suckless) these days, since it's all I need. I might be a tad biased, since ScrotWM is originally BSD based, and I'm a long time user of Free and Open BSD. BSD apps tend to be higher quality than Linux projects, in my experience. Just compare BSD manuals next to Linux man pages side-by-side and you'll understand.

Other tilers you might want to look at are Musca (another favourite of mine), Xmonad (if you like Haskell), WMFS (window manager from scratch), AwesomeWM (awfulWM in my opinion, but lots of people like it), Wmii (DWM's big sister) and Subtle (requires Ruby)

I wouldn't recommend you install a tiling WM and use it as your primary, since there's usually a learning curve involved. A perfect compromise would be a lightweight stacking/floating WM like Openbox or Fluxbox, or if you want a DE then maybe Xfce, and then a tilingWM that doesn't require a lot of dependencies, like DWM, Wmii or ScrotWM...and then you switch between them via GDM, Slim or xinitrc, depending on what work you wanna do.



QUOTE
Distro-wise, I want to move to something that will is just install + 1st configuration and then forget. This lappy has waaaaay to much sensitive data. I like the idea of Debian or Crunchbang. I've been looking at both (also i haz preference for apt).
If it's Debian, I personally do a netinstall or start from GRML, but that might not be your thing.

If it's apt, Crunchbang (either the Openbox or Xfce version) might be a good fit for you. It should have most codecs out of the box, plus it has an awesome "CB-Welcome-Script" that runs the first time you boot into it after a HD install, where it asks you if you want additional apps/libs/daemons like, O.Office, samba, dev-tools...etc. Plus, it defaults to Squeeze which is more reliable than most things. You can upgrade to testing or Sid later to make it a rolling-release, at the expense of some stability.

Another good candidate would be Linux Mint Debian (LMDE) which is based on Debian Testing. It's your typical Mint Gnome environment in terms of feel, which most Ubuntu users will find familiar, I think.

Only thing I'm a bit worried about with regards to your hardware and Debian is your ATI gfx chipset. I can't say I'm that familiar with ATI, but some people have had problems with various cards. I guess it's sorta like dying your hair ... you won't know until you try for yourself.

This post has been edited by G-17: Mar 4 2011, 07:52 PM
TSfarkinid
post Mar 5 2011, 01:02 AM

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Yup, thats my lshw. Its the simplest way to give details on laptop. I've decided to move on and not try and fix the laptop because I need it for work. If it weren't for that fact, I'll be stuck on it the whole weekend trying to figure out what went wrong.

As for iptables, I think I understand iptables. The problem is that I'm making a very specialized kind of firewall. Its more like a firewall + NAT + packet sniffer (for wireless network) + capture portal + optional radius server. There is another part to this but I don't really wanna talk about it publicly yet. If you do wanna know, I'll gladly PM you. This will help me be evil around my neighbourhood.

Regarding Scrot, yes pls on the example scrot.conf file. I'm about to format my laptop now as I type this. Procrastinating a little because I've got my doubts. Gonna do a Debian Netinst. I wonder how this is gonna work out. I've never done this sort of install before. Lets hope for the best blush.gif

Edit: Dammit, I shouldn't have chosen SG as mirror. I forgot their connection keeps dying out for some reason. AND its slow.... boo NUS, I expected more from you.

This post has been edited by farkinid: Mar 5 2011, 01:42 AM
G-17
post Mar 5 2011, 01:54 AM

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@Farkinid
Check post #122 of this page. I included a scrotwm.conf and a couple more there.
Read what's typed out in that post carefully, since it requires you to download some stuff.

As for Debian,
The netinstall will ask what kind of install you want, and you can select an environment if desired (shouldn't be too long if your Unifi gives the speed it advertised) or you can install to command-line only (base system) and then add what you need. If you take the latter route, first thing you'll have to do is edit your sources.list to enable non-free and contrib repos. Basically just modify every source to have "main" "contrib" and "non-free" ... sorta like this if you're on Squeeze;

CODE
## Official Debian Repositories:
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free
# deb-src http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free
deb http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates main
# deb-src http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates main


and apt-get update/upgrade

If you want testing or unstable, just replace the "squeeze" with "testing" or "unstable" ... won't be as rock-solid as Squeeze, obviously, but Debian Testing is still much more stable than 99% of distros out there.

Then (again, if you installed the base system only) you'll need to install xorg (or xserver-xorg) and your preferred DE or WM. I'm not sure if Xterm comes included in a base install, but you should install it (it can serve as a backup terminal if nothing else). Install drivers if required (your Atheros Wifi should work out of the box... I think) and wicd / wicd-curses to get wireless working. You can then create a file called .xinitrc (https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Xinitrc) to startX, or just install GDM if you're more comfy with that. Then additional stuff (like urxvt, terminus, a file manager like thunar or pcmanfm, conky if desired, htop).

It should be pretty straightforward if you're just taking a standard Debian route. I doubt you'll wanna do advanced symlinking and scripting this soon into your install.

Hope this helps.

P.S ... Sorry for any typos you find. It's Friday night / Saturday morning and I just got back from some moderate drinking =P
TSfarkinid
post Mar 5 2011, 02:36 AM

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QUOTE(G-17 @ Mar 5 2011, 01:54 AM)
@Farkinid
Check post #122 of this page. I included a scrotwm.conf and a couple more there.
Read what's typed out in that post carefully, since it requires you to download some stuff.

As for Debian,
The netinstall will ask what kind of install you want, and you can select an environment if desired (shouldn't be too long if your Unifi gives the speed it advertised) or you can install to command-line only (base system) and then add what you need. If you take the latter route, first thing you'll have to do is edit your sources.list to enable non-free and contrib repos. Basically just modify every source to have  "main" "contrib" and "non-free" ... sorta like this if you're on Squeeze;

CODE
## Official Debian Repositories:
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free
# deb-src http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free
deb http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates main
# deb-src http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates main


and apt-get update/upgrade

If you want testing or unstable, just replace the "squeeze" with "testing" or "unstable" ... won't be as rock-solid as Squeeze, obviously, but Debian Testing is still much more stable than 99% of distros out there.

Then (again, if you installed the base system only) you'll need to install xorg (or xserver-xorg) and your preferred DE or WM. I'm not sure if Xterm comes included in a base install, but you should install it (it can serve as a backup terminal if nothing else). Install drivers if required (your Atheros Wifi should work out of the box... I think) and wicd / wicd-curses to get wireless working. You can then create a file called .xinitrc (https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Xinitrc) to startX, or just install GDM if you're more comfy with that. Then additional stuff (like urxvt, terminus, a file manager like thunar or pcmanfm, conky if desired, htop).

It should be pretty straightforward if you're just taking a standard Debian route. I doubt you'll wanna do advanced symlinking and scripting this soon into your install.

Hope this helps.

P.S ... Sorry for any typos you find. It's Friday night / Saturday morning and I just got back from some moderate drinking =P
*
Fuah, so late still awake.

I already got past the installation. Lets see what I've done so far :-
  1. x-server = installed
  2. WM = ScrotWM (installed)
  3. Graphical Login = SLIM (can't find it yet)
  4. file manager = Midnight Commander (installed YEEEEaaaaah)
  5. wireless = down (dunno how to set this up yet)
Thats pretty much as far as I have gotten. Oh also.. just installed sudo

Oh also, 1 more thing... I don't know why but everytime i press backspace too much, i get an annoying buzz from my speakers. How do i kill that?

This post has been edited by farkinid: Mar 5 2011, 02:39 AM

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