Any one knows of ways to short the gold spot price other than thru forex broker?

I try not to play with leverage cause i am not experienced enough...

as far as i understand most of the forex broker give leverage.

Thks

Thanks ,

but sometime the gold spot or silver spot price does not co relate with USD very well (they might drop together)

Just keep your gold, it will go much much higher by 2012.

As far as i know most investor buy physical for the long term (i.e. 1-2 years at least), Medium term players (3-6 Months) go for gold ETF's, futures or options.

Short term players (daily trading) go for forex or bank's spot gold price trading.

In my opinion the spreads available locally is too high for trading.

There is banks overseas with normal accounts that allows online trading gold spot at RM1-RM2 spread and silver spot at RM.041-RM0.50 spread per gram.

for even better spread perhaps forex?

banks in HK and CHN

also i type too fast on last post the spread for silver is 0.41- (not .041)

try HSBC in HK for paper gold, ETF's and Hang Seng Index.

U only need to stay in HK to be able to invest in US stock mkt or other non HK counters or margin trading.

Unfortunately the trading hours for spot gold in HSBC is 7 am - 12 am, five days week.

for a trading junkie, you need 24 hrs access to catch the up and down flow especially silver where good money can be made from all the up and down.

for shorting gold and silver best go for forex trading, available in SG. I think forex accounts is still the best vehicle cause you can Long and short plus stop loss but must be carefull of margin call.

For forex account recommendation pls go to the forex subforum, there many expert there. Mabye after you get your answer, you can advise me too

Hope that helps.

This post has been edited by 97th Mobile: May 20 2011, 02:56 PM

Well, it is subjective.

Let say i made money in business or working in SG or A gift from relative in SG who bank into my SG account, and i do not intend to bring back the money to malaysia and use it to play forex in singapore.

would that be illegal?

I think you would find a better answer in the forex subforum...

i have been trading paper gold since 06, still feel paper gold is better than physical gold imho cause :

1) guaranteed buyer whenever i want to sell and convert to cash
2) low spread compare with physical gold
3) more money can be made trading than just investing provided you learn to trade

Some lessons i have learn is

-if USD tank then RM will appreciate in value

-Gold can be revalue in price i.e US in the 30's if i remember correctly

-if gold price went parabolic then majority of gold holder will want to sell, when supply more than demand, Buyers will increase the spreads

-What if your physical gold seller close shop or stop buying back?

-known such a company existed in KL selling gold DINAR in 05 and when gold price go up in 08 the company director just close shop and fled overseas, end up the buyer have to sell to normal gold shop for around 60%-50% of the spot price

Maybe some of the physical gold holder can check with those gold shop i.e. poh kong, what kind of buy back rate or spread they are giving for gold coin or bar that is not originally bought from them?

I think for silver bar or silver coin there is even less buyers.

All the above is just my humble opinion, please DYODD

This post has been edited by 97th Mobile: May 26 2011, 12:54 PM

Normally if USD go down in value, other country rich in raw materials i.e. Australia or Canada currencies will go up in value.
another example is RM3.80 exchange to USD 1 few years back, now is roughly RM3.0x exchange to USD 1.

Gold spot price can be revalue or peg up or down by a country just like thier local currencies.
As to why revalue, well too long story try google US great depression or vietnam control gold price or gold revaluation for a better explanation.

for me parabolic means up

as to wondering if supply will be more than demand in the future.
imagine if the house in your area increase value from RM400k to RM1 million within 6 months and 30% of your neighbours put up thier house for sale, would there be so many buyers within a short period of time. Same if you are the gold buyer, when you see so many people want to sell physical gold to you, would negotiate for a better price?

This post has been edited by 97th Mobile: May 26 2011, 03:08 PM

Well do not just look at the RSI to trade or to buy, there is no one perfect indicator.

Agreed with you trading gold is not easy, imho due to the current high price of gold, you should have a least above 100k play the game.

Gold have been in the uptrend since 2001 making it a current 10 years uptrend, so you must know how to play a bull market depending on what stages it is. Should we not have different investment pattern for early, mid and mania phase of a bull market?

I see a lot of forum members going for physical gold purchase, i wonder if it is wise at this period of time. Physical Gold is good during which the country you are living in faces hyperinflation or if your country will be seriously affected by what is happening in the US.

If you have RM1000000 you should be concern with money devaluation, but what if you have RM 10000 or RM 20000? Would not the effect of devaluation be minimal?

I actually will be quite worried for the physical silver holder, wonder how many buyers there are locally? would the spread be good? if sell back internationally what would be the transport and insurance cost? after covering the transport, insurance and buying spread, would be worth it to invest in physical silver?

for me the best investment for RM10,000 to RM1,000,000 in terms of ROI is always as follows 1)Business 2)Property 3)Stocks/Commo/Futures/ETF's.

my first business gave me 90 times return in 6 years, way better than any other investment i know.

just my 1 cents...

Must be my poor old man's EGO ha ha

This post has been edited by 97th Mobile: Jun 17 2011, 01:39 PM

1. If there is no oil, we humans will find alternatives, we always do. Fortunately we still have horses, camels, cows to pull wagons for us. Business will still be here even though it may have evolved to the world changes. It will still be of value because the business will still generate revenue.

2. The argument can be both ways, if there is no oil for the big machines then we will have to revert back to building wooden house? would a brick house then be of better value? Property price does fluctuate but tell me did gold price drop in the 90's? I think everything of value will fluctuate in price due to demand and supply. What i do know is the human population will keep growing unless there is massive famine or war. So the demand for property will always be there, it's just at what price.

3. i think stocks can jatuh also if there is still oil like 1997, 2008 and 1929 (No QE that time), it is just when to buy that matters.

I am not saying that Gold investment is not the way, in fact i too believe it is the current in trend investment since 2001. I am more worry on how long this trend will last. Will i be able to get out in time.

All investment have it's peak, am i ready for the next bull (whatever it may be)

Since my 1 cents is useless, this is my 1/2 cents (should even be more useless ha ha)

1. No need to challenge lah, but you are right petrol price keep on increasing and i will still keep on paying for it until there is no oil or other alternatives then maybe i have to ride donkey or bicycle to work .

2. Our country still have a lot of trees lah, i am just suggesting that brick house would have more value than wooden house.

3. Me not in either camp, i would rate food, water and shelter as the most valuable commodities. if we do not have oil power then we still have steam power, wind power and manual labor power.

4. No comments, anything can happen when society break down.

Just my humble opinion. Now i respect your opinion too, i believe how we think makes us what we are and what we going to be in the future.

faber est quisque fortunae suae




This post has been edited by 97th Mobile: Jun 18 2011, 01:18 PM

Greed is my weakness when it comes to getting out.

Agreed that the gold bull run is still on, the challenge to me is to find the next bull because i plan 5-6 years ahead.

That is how i was taught to invest, buy it when it is low and sell it when it is high and never chase the bull.

I wonder, did you double up or triple up your gold in terms of value over the years?

Did you bet all in into gold?

---

Added on June 18, 2011, 2:12 pmOk, let see life without electricity, no internet, no petrol base cars.... no at lot of things.

So please please enlighten me and teach me, would we revert back to the early industrial age (steam power), Renaissance age or middle ages or post-apocalyptic scenario?

How would you prepare for peak oil, just gold? need any parang to defend yourself, your food and your gold?

This post has been edited by 97th Mobile: Jun 18 2011, 02:30 PM

Agreed with cherroy

I feel that the gold investment entry is too high and the ROI percentage or real money gain per money invested is too low compare with some of my other investment. This opinion may also be due to my limited funds.

That does not mean i don't invest in gold, but i also invest in stocks and properties, which also gives me good return as i tend to look for low entry investment. "Buy low Sell High" that is what all guru's advice he he.

every investment have it's days of boom and bust, in USA the late 90's it's tech stock, in early 2000 period it's property boom. All the boom will make you rich and all the bust will make you cry.

The gold boom started in early 2000, after 7-9 years boom (depending when you count the gold boom start) i started wondering when the party will stop?