What is Selvedge (Salvage) denim?

Selvedge denim is a particular type of denim which is produced on vintage shuttle looms which boasts a firm natural edge that does not unravel. The word "selvedge" comes from the phrase "self-edge", the natural edge of a roll of fabric. As applied to denim, it means that which is made on old-style shuttle looms (source: Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denim).

Shuttle looms are antique tools that were outdated by newer technologies in the 1950′s. Jeans today are mostly made on projectile looms which are more cost efficient for manufacturers. But during the mid to late 50's, as a response to increased demand for jeans in the west, American denim manufacturers replaced the old shuttle style looms with modern projectile looms. The new looms produced fabric faster and wider and were a more commercial approach to producing jeans in large quantities.

However, the trade-off was a lower quality and strength of material which was passed on to the end consumer, as well as a less personalized clothing item. As the major players like Levi’s and Lee upgraded their looms in the 1960's, these old-style looms eventually ended up in Japan, where the best selvedge denim is still made today.

For better clarification regarding the differences between the old school shuttle looms and the more commercial projectile looms,



The selvedge edge is usually stitched with colored thread: green, white, brown, yellow, and red (red is the most common). Fabric mills used these colors to differentiate between fabrics.


A silver threaded selvedge, probably from a pair of black Dior Homme 19cms


Beautiful teal and yellow threaded selvedge


Multi-colored selvedge


Red selvegde in Japanese 14oz Denim Uniqlo Selvedge Jeans.
This is the most common type of selvedge you will get to see nowadays. This also represents Levis' trademark selvedge jeans back in the days where the color of the thread (Levis used red) was closely associated with certain brands. The above colored selvedges are extremely rare and almost cannot be obtained in this part of the world.

Selvedge denim is one of the finest denims that can be used in jeans production today and the price indeed reflects that. The weaving process takes longer to complete but achieves a tightly woven, heavier weight fabric that is built to last. In fact, one of the ways to distinguish vintage jeans of the past is by looking for this trademark characteristic (source: http://www.popculturepost.com/2007/05/22/w...elvedge-denim/).

What is Raw denim?

Raw or Dry denim refers to denim which has not been washed after the dying process during production. The indigo which is dyed onto the jeans is presented in a virgin state, hence dry or raw. The process of wear and tear over time when denim is worn, such as stretching at the knee and upper thighs (whiskers), the frequent friction at the bottom of both the denim (near the ankles) due to walking, the creases behind the knees (honeycombs), and any other areas which receive the most stress such as a wallet in a very tight back pocket, will encourage the indigo to fade faster than other general areas of the jeans. This creates very personalized fades, depending on what you keep in your pockets, how you wear your jeans and the activities you do with your jeans on.

After about a year of wearing, without any washes, the first wash will produce something extremely personal to the user. The pair of raw denim, over the months and years of wear, has faded into something beautiful. Your pair of jeans has now become like a close friend. A second skin over your lower body.


My Imperial Dukes in a raw state (source: www.SelfEdge.com)


Dior Homme honeycombs


Heavy cell-phone fadings and some good whiskers (source: MyNudies.com)


The ultimate end look we all strive for.

Now lets have an insight on Japanese denim and why it is revered in the world of indigo.

The Japanese denim industry is revered the world over for its innovativeness and its capability to set trends in the denim industry.
It would be nice to have a look at some facts and figures relating to the Japanese Denim Industry.
Denim Exports : 2006 about 56 million sq mtrs.
2007(till march) about 15 million sq mtrs.
Jeans :80 million pairs (approx) produced in Japan p.a
:20 million pairs(approx) imported p.a
Export markets : China,Hongkong, US, Vietnam and Italy.

Main Denim producing areas in Japan : The Hiroshima perfecture, The Okayama perfecture and the Mihara Area.

DENIM MILLS

KAIHARA DENIM
Produces about 36 million sq mtrs of denim p.a
Exports about 60% of production.
Offer about 600-900 items to buyers every year
Investment since 1970 – about USD 500 million.
More than 300 looms at six mills.
Strengths : Superior cotton mix and unique Dyeing process.
Kaihara has no plans to go overseas for production as they are quite comfortable in Japan…This shows their belief in their own capability to be highly innovative

KURABO INDUSTRIES
Currently focusing very much on Stretch fibres and are looking at
advanced versions of stretch denim by using XLA stretch yarn,Xfit
lycra and T400. This is to take advantage of the Skinny Jeans
fashion that is currently still strong.
Developments 2006-08 : Emphasizing on the Ocean BLue colors under the Ultra Marine
Blue Brand name.
:’Wave’ – A line developed from a specially designed slub yarn .
:’Air Spinner’ – third line that features very soft denim.

NISSHINBO INDUSTRIES
Capacity : About 12 million sq mtrs p.a
Developments : As per the marketing manager of Nisshinbo – ‘Masanharu Tanaka’
the NEW TREND would be a return towards NATURAL LOOKS. This
would mean that innovative looks using Indigo and other yarn
dyeing material.
:Liquid Ammonia Treatment: Nisshinbo is also know for the
development of the liquid ammonia treatment of Denim Fabric. The
denim fabric is dipped in liquid ammonia (about -40 degrees C)
which enables it to regain its original shape , thus giving back
natural softness to the fibre. One of its five ammonia treatment
plant is used for treating Denims.

Other developments in the Japanese denim Industry :
The DUCK TEXTILE CO. has introduced a JERSEY DENIM - a denim made of knit fabric. This fabric looks like woven fabric but has the qualities of the knit fabric.
Another development doing the rounds in the Japanese Denim Industry is the effort to keep the core of the cotton yarn undyed .. Though this normally happens in the Rope Dyeing method, but the effort is to have much more undyed portion through HAND DYEING which will give very good after washing effects…

source: http://denimiscool.wordpress.com/category/japanese-denim/

More content coming up

-Known brands and what each is famous for [Tripleworks - http://blueowlworkshop.blogspot.com/search.../Triple%20Works]
-Lesser known brands.
-Washing discussion.
-Sizing discussion.
-Selected pictures to form our LYN member's fades and fit pics archive.

Link to previous thread, v3 - http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/874917

Denim Wall of Fades 2010 Contest, Jakarta, Indonesia - Click here for sexcitement

This post has been edited by Grimm: Jun 20 2011, 12:26 PM

Uniqlo selvedge jeans can start at MYR 250.
Dior Homme silver selvedge (which are no longer produced) can go up to MYR 1,800.

It really depends on what you're looking for. Asking how much do they cost is really silly. What matters to us, is the qualities of different makes of denim.

But certain makers still do stick to their heritage. I know the more common massed produced ones like Nudies and Uniqlo might not, but when you look at Iron Heart, Sugar Cane, Pure Blue Japan, Studio D'Artisan, Full Count, Samurai, The Flat Head, Momotaro, Triple Works, and various other japanese brands that we are not exposed to.

I really wonder though, how all the shuttle looms ended up in Japan. They bought all of them up from the Americans or what...

they seriously do them in small quantities. Even if you have the dough to order them online, chances are, the stock count would only be 0 or 1 or 2. I have never seen any of them having more than 2 pieces of inventory for their online store. I am rather sure they still do use the vintage looms.

http://blueowlworkshop.blogspot.com/2011/0...to-produce.html

A video as well.

http://blueowlworkshop.blogspot.com/2011/0...edge-denim.html

Moar on selvedge denim

http://www.contextclothing.com/support/selvage_denim.php

Traditionally the denim made on the Shuttle Looms was so narrow that about 3 yards were required to make a jeans. To maximize fabric consumption, the jeans makers used the Selvedge also which can be seen when the Jeans is turned up.The color of the thread in the Selvedge was used to differentiate between fabrics. True vintage jeans can be recognised by the Selvedge thread.

Traditionally, American denim was considered superior. However, the Americans replaced all their Shuttle Looms by faster looms (projectile looms). Many of these looms were bought by Japanese who felt that there was a market for traditional denim. And when the Premium Denim craze began after 2000, many jeans manufacturers introduced jeans made from Shuttle looms and Quality Dyeing.

Quality Dyeing

Quality Dyeing is Indigo Dyeing done using Loop Dyeing machines – which are themselves rare and vintage machines. The rope of cotton yarn goes through a vat of Indigo and then is taken to the ROOF of the factory where it is allowed to oxidize and then brought back to dip. Some companies do as many as 30 DIPS creating a rich blue Indigo character.
Another traditional thing that goes in the process of creating a Traditional Premium Denim is the chain stitch at the leg opening – which gives a thick stitch line at the hem.

Denim produced on shuttle looms is naturally irregular . Accompanied with the additional details in dyeing and stitching, it produces a unique product and as the Jeans age, they produce a unique pattern. Like Fine Wood, Selvage denim will become more beautiful with age and acquire a patina which is impossible to create artificially.
Many of the japanese denim brands are using selvedge denim. The most famous of them WAS Evisu. Their HERITAGE Collection is made entirely of selvedge denim only , produced on 30" looms and dyed by LOOP Dyeing method. With a minimum of 16 dips, they go up to 30 dips . For chainstitching, they use the ‘Union Special Machines’ which are considered to be the ‘ROLLS ROYCE’ of stitching machines in 1950s.

source: http://denimiscool.wordpress.com/category/japanese-denim/

This post has been edited by Grimm: Mar 2 2011, 04:28 PM

The TOYODA shuttle loom

Raws and selvedges are two different things. Check out the explanations on the first post. Although most selvedges were raws, non-selvedge raw jeans are becoming more and more popular.

Examples:

Nudies, Cheap Mondays, Acne, Dr Denim. They prodcue a LOT of batches that are raw (unwashed) but are not selvedge denim and don't have the selvedge strip either.

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Added on March 1, 2011, 8:47 pmYes, they are washed. Purposely broken, beaten, torn and stone washed to death.

This post has been edited by Grimm: Mar 1 2011, 08:47 PM

You talking like some girl just grabbed your nuts. Get a grip mate. Lol. Ask the sales guy to shut up and just get you like 10 pairs and try them on and look at the best fit.

Dior won't be so easily available. They only have a few dior boutiques. Like there's one in Beverly hills i think. And one more somewhere else. That's it.

Yes. It is similar, as it is a straight cut. Grim tim is tapered below the knees.

1. Unsanforized raws will expand after about 40 hours of wear or so.
2. You can wash them any time. The recommended is usually after a minimum of 6 months, some people take it to 2 years plus. But some guys get fabulous fades even with monthly washing, so it doesn't really matter. What matters is you wear it rough and hard. Don't baby your jeans (I always do for the first month then get on with rocking it though )
3. Well, don't fold it after wears. Best to leave it where it drops on the floor so that the creases stay there - and you don't wanna have that weird fold-crease when the indigo runs.
4. Skinny jeans would suit you well, provided you know how to carry it. Like wear something buttoned, not some baggy tee. Wear beautiful shoes. Or just upload how you look and we'll criticize it for u.
5. Boot-cut? With bell-bottoms? Are you serious...

Uniqlo is good, but the only other one I know is Evisu in jusco I think...
You gotta ask the rest.

The ones at the store are folded of course. If not, they'll crease everywhere. Those have not been worn and are in a virgin-like state. Besides, its a practical method of display.

Imperials are in full swing now. Nudies won't be brought out until I've had 10 months with these Dukes. Expect awesome in December!

Is that weekly progression yeh? That's good progress you got there. Keep it up mate

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Added on March 5, 2011, 9:03 pmAnd thanks for sharing.

This post has been edited by Grimm: Mar 5 2011, 09:03 PM

Post pics and we'll help you out. Its the safest way to ID them - coz we own them.

I wonder if anyone's had experience with any Kicking Mule Workshop (KMW) jeans?



source: denimdebate.com

It's an American denim made with Jap selvedge denim. 100% Zimbabwean cotton, white selvedge, reinforced belt hoops, simple denim leather patch and surprisingly... left-hand twill.

Yes it is breathable. I suspect its because they are the organic range. It feels soft and comfortable too.

But the Imperials are really rough and rigid. The pockets are still stupidly tight, but much better than when I first wore it. Had problems getting wallet out for bus ticket >_> that was annoying as hell.

Overpriced bro. I had a browse through the KLCC store when I was back in Msia. They don't have any raws. And even for the washed jeans, the wash is ugly lah. I think my old Giordano jeans also look better.

Lol that's my size. And my, my, what a price. Regular price is $460 on LVR.

Thanks mate! I thought you were gonna show me some overpriced crap

This will cost me 4 days of wages but what the hell *drool*

The one I have is a 30/32. My ideal size would be 29/32 or if I wanted a skinny fit, 28/32.

The 30/32 fits just right, I don't feel any stretch. It comes to a point where it even feels a little loose. But I got it cheap from a forummer here, so I ain't complaining

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Added on March 10, 2011, 8:41 pmBut the Dior is vanity sized, so I have to subtract one/two inches. Plus, it will expand almost as much as APC (so downsize 2 is perfect for me).

This post has been edited by Grimm: Mar 10 2011, 08:41 PM

I'm not really looking for a skinny fit. I think slim looks just fine on me. I can carry the skinny jeans look, but I already have one dirty ol' Levis for that purpose that was before I stumbled upon raws n selvedges.

Anyway there aren't any raws in the 17.5 fit I think. I will do my own tapering if I wanted a 17.5

I PMed immediately after you posted. He told me it was sold within 1 minute. It was a once in a lifetime find kinda like your shoes u got on ebay.

If you ever see a sz 27 or 28, do let us know

I don't lurk there as often

Plenty of pictures on first thread to guide you

First of all, Uniqlo is known for its affordability, that is why it is much cheaper than N&F. And I mean cheap and affordable as cheap and affordable - no other meaning. Money-wise.

People start judging cheap = "cheap" and lower quality. That may be true, I don't know, cause I haven't felt or tried one on before. Second thing is, Uniqlo usually make their jeans with 11-12oz denim, which can't take any beating, it's like wool trousers. You'll have to baby them if you still wanna be wearing that 3 years from now. To have lifetime lasting jeans you need to go for anything like 14oz and above denim from manufacturers that have proven it - SugarCane, IronHeart, TripleWorks and maybe LVC (not sure how well Levis Vintage Clothing do on toughness).

They will be stiff as hell, but will wear in very well. They will take rough wear much better than Uniqlos. One thing about Uniqlos is that they are super thin - for selvedge denim standards. I don't know if they do really go through the hassle of giving it tighter weaves to make it a true strong selvedge denim, because from all accounts I've read, they seem to be damn thin and wears out after 1 year (of almost everyday wear).

But I've never found N&F impressive. I tried two on. Both fits didn't impress me. The quality didn't impress me either. Felt paper thin, but stiff. Thin but stiff wtf.

Cheap Mondays were named the way they were for a reason - to be affordable. They gave people who don't want to drop 500 dollars on jeans, a lifeline.

But after all's said and done, different people go for different stuff. We all earn different dough, some of us are more willing to cough up more dough for shit we think is beautiful to us. Like well, Uniqlos are good for summer-all-year-round Malaysia, so its all good.

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Added on March 13, 2011, 7:05 pmGood shit I found.

http://www.thedenimdoctor.co.uk/3.html

I don't know what hell these people go through. Jeez.. that's crazy to be able to break jeans like that just by wearin it plain n simple. And so many people break their jeans until there was enough demand for someone to go around in a Mini Cooper being a denim doctor. These little things make this world a little weirder and more exciting everyday

This post has been edited by Grimm: Mar 13 2011, 07:09 PM

@kotmj,

Yes, Uniqlo fit is like that. One of the other reasons enthusiasts don't get Uniqlo is because of the fit. A classic (straight) fit is extremely common in the traditional selvedge denim market.

Uniqlo is considered as a newcomer in this segment. And because they have a huge line of clothing items, I honestly don't think they give a poop how good their denim is. I think their Tees and other hipster clothings are more marketable than their jeans.

But after all's said and done, Uniqlo probably offers one of the best jeans you can physically buy in Malaysia. For other makes, you'll have to hope and pray for your parcel's safety.

@tention,

I honestly think Topman's just in for a share of this market. Like, just hopping in purely for the $$. I... don't see the difference between their selvedge jeans and their normal jeans at all.