Heard about Abidal this morning. Even though hes a rival player, human life is far more important. I wish him the best and hope he can recover to be able to step on the field again

It is a generational thing. Before Xavi, Iniesta, Messi you could say only Pep was at their level. I would hardly consider Ferrer world class. You might as well consider Arbeloa one of our great products then (which he is not obviously). And before Pep...my Barca knowledge isn't the best I admit but I don't know any world class players produced before him. Maybe you should enlighten me.
As far as I know, most of the best players in Barca's history: Kubala, Cruyff, Maradona, Laudrup, Romario, Ronaldo, etc were all bought. If you compare the two clubs' histories in totality you could say that we've produced more homegrown talent actually. You need that ounce of luck to provide you with the group of players who have that initial something special. Stories of Messi and Iniesta crushing teams single handedly in their youth have made their rounds before. After Raul's group, the world class talent just wasn't coming for us but I know for a fact that our upcoming generation has some special talent in there. They're still a little too young to make the grade yet of course so we'll just have to wait and see.

But I agree the difference currently is the difference in attitudes the two clubs take when grooming youngsters to make that transition into the senior team. Madrid just don't know how to get players to step up from the youth system to the first team. And that's where Barca should be commended. It's something I'd like to see being emulated at Madrid.

And Borja will never be the next Guti. The guy is already 26 years old and this is his first real breakout season. Some players peak later but sadly at Madrid we just don't have the patience. But I don't think it's a decision we regret really. Mata on the other hand was just being greedy so no regrets there either.

How is that unfair when Barca were founded before Madrid? The fact we put a system in place earlier just showed that the club did have a commitment to producing its own players at that time.

I think you can consider Messi and Xavi the same generation seeing as they both play in the same team. Pep's team was the original Dream Team.
I think the biggest credit has to go to your scouts. Picking up Messi and Iniesta were the best moves that your club have made in recent history. And the fact that Iniesta was from Albacete and wanted to join Madrid initially just shows luck does play a part some times. His parents didn't like the location of our youth setup and the rest is history.

But frankly to judge Real Madrid's commitment to youth systems based on such a small period in the club's whole history is ridiculous (taking your words: unfair ). We've shown that we can produce world class talent with Raul's group and the Quinta del Buitre before that. If you look at Fergie's Fledgings for example, the fact that Man Utd haven't really produced anyone of note to replace Giggs or Scholes, doesn't means they've lost their commitment to their youth system. The difference really is not as huge as you exaggerated. You need the stars to align so to speak to get world class talent churning out. And a little patience of course (something which Madrid currently lacks but we're seeing a slow change in direction now)

Bojan's situation with Soldado is similar for example. They both scored goals for fun at youth levels but have since struggled to make their mark in the first team. And whereas Bojan is still languishing at your bench, Soldado is carving out a nice little career for himself at Valencia. Bojan is younger of course so it remains to be seen whether he can up his game. Again as I said you need that luck with youngsters sometimes. Some have the mental capacity to play for such a big club like Madrid or Barca, some don't.

Yeah it's a tremendous achievement. And alot of credit should go to Pep I feel. He's made a machine out of you guys.

This post has been edited by verx: May 14 2011, 11:22 AM

LOL you're the one who brought up history 1st not me

You keep claiming it's not a generational thing but the fact is it's only the current Barca side that can actually claim that most of the key players are all from La Masia.
Even during Pep's time it was Laudrup pulling the strings, Stoichkov scoring the goals. Heck after that era Barcelona changed to the Dutch national team. You're going to say La Masia were consistently producing world class talent then as well? If you're going to count the likes of Oleguer or Ferrer as Barca consistently producing then why not admit that the likes of Granero and Arbeloa who have played roles this season as proof that Madrid's youth policy is still working? Because we sold them and bought them later? This is why I say you're exaggerating.
And if you're going to include Pedro (who joined Barca at 17) as part of your youngster graduates then might as well include Higuain and Marcelo as ours as well (both joined at 19, 18 respectively, so not much diff there) since you know we literally groomed them. So is Fabregas a La Masia or Arsenal graduate now?

You make it sound like there is a Messi being produced every generation in Spain alone. If it were the case, Barca wouldn't have needed to bring Messi all the way from Argentina .
We have been producing quality players. La Liga quality yes. Real Madrid quality? I'm not too sure about that. But I agree that Madrid need to be a little more patient. We are already starting to see a change this season with a few cantera players having made their debuts and Morata being promised promotion for next season.

You haven't been in touch? He's already made his CL debut
The boy is still only 17 and he's been helping Castilla to get promoted to Segunda A. He will play 1 more year for Castilla I reckon.

No arguments there

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Added on May 14, 2011, 7:55 pmIt's statements like this that boggle my mind. History has proven otherwise.

This post has been edited by verx: May 14 2011, 07:55 PM

Arbeloa has been getting games. Granero has played a smaller part but he's still only 23. Still abit too early to judge imo. Negredo? Isn't our player and isn't good enough.
And the likes of Pavon and Raul Bravo did get minutes with the senior squad. We prefer to forget about them of course cause they were disasters Kinda reminds me of Oleguer. God I miss him

I don't have a problem with it. Then following that logic Higuain, Marcelo and Gago are our graduates. And Fabregas is an Arsenal graduate

Pedro may not be a world beater but he has tremendous mental capacity which makes him able to play under the pressures of a big club. For every Pedro you have a Bojan or a Gio dos Santos.
I think of all the players we've produced recently, only Mata is probably good enough to play for us. But circumstances didn't fall our way. When a player chooses a bigger contract over playing for the biggest club in the world then you have to question his ambition as well.

Oh and I think we'll be bringing back Callejon so it's not like we've totally abandoned every player that has left us. There's a reason why we include buyback clauses

Ah my bad he is 19 already. But I doubt he'll be anything like Soldado
He is very highly rated but his small size is the factor why he hasn't made the step up yet.

Anyway we could go on and on and we would still never find a middle road. Just agree to disagree then