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unknown warrior
post Nov 23 2012, 04:18 PM

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QUOTE(imin @ Nov 23 2012, 03:21 PM)
any comment about this statement?

One Scripture tells me that Jesus is not God because Jesus himself defined who is God and who isn't. Jesus prayed to the Father in John 17:3-"And this is the way to have eternal Life, by knowing you, the Only True God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth". When Jesus already defined who is the Only God, then he has already defined who isn't God, which is everybody else. So, Jesus did say in that scripture that he is not God.
*
This question have been answered.

I'll just repost what I answered to hamballah.

QUOTE(hambaallah @ Nov 18 2012, 01:59 AM)
hi UW, in ur believe u consider jesus a god or god n man?
*
He's both.

Colossians 2:9

For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, (NIV)

For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. (NLT)

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. (KJV)



QUOTE(hambaallah @ Nov 18 2012, 12:56 PM)
god die? that is impossible.
if jesus god how u explain this:
Jesus in Praying to HIS FATHER said: "This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ. John 17: 3. So listen to what the son says when he calls his father THE ONLY TRUE GOD!

Jesus is a servant of God. (Acts 3:13)

I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one "like a son of man" with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, "Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe." Rev 14: 14-15 Here is Jesus is taking orders from another angel ! Can we believe that an angel who orders Christ to harvest the earth is giving orders to God Himself! Or that he would have to tell the omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing) Most High "God the Son" when and how to do anything?
*

Read the whole Bible in it's context. Don't pick one verse to justify

This verse signify Jesus as God.

John 8:58
"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I AM!"

And if you read back John 17:3

Do you see the word there "and Him"? hence signifying Both are on equal ground as God.
Do you see the word there "that they should know you"? hence have eternal life signifying Faith as the pre-requisite NOT through works or self effort.

You are right to say that God cannot die, that is why He is resurrected because the power of God's spirit in Jesus is Life and even death cannot hold Him and is now at the right hand of God the Father, living for evermore.

God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all one. Moslems and the world will have a hard time understanding this trinity. But I just point that as trying to limit God in the box of our human thinking. If you can accept there's nothing impossible for God, then it's also fair for you to accept that God can co-exist in any form He desires. Back in the time of Moses, God came in the form of burning fire. He also came in the form of pillars of cloud to guide the Israelites through the wilderness.

The reason that He died as Man is to represent ALL of us, including the people of your faith that whosoever who believes will have eternal life.
To be a sacrifice so that we need not fall under judgement. Both of our Faith agrees that God is a God of Judgement and Justice, where there is sin, there must be penalty of our sins. That is the Love of God towards his creation, that instead of you dying, God desire that you live through Him. But there is a condition. That you have Faith in Jesus Christ in what He did. May sound easy but when you try, it can be a challenge for some.

Yes Jesus became a servant of God to teach us servitude. If you really want to be a fore front, Great Man in the Kingdom of God, learn to serve others as well. The world teaches, if you're somebody great, others will serve you. But that's not how it is, in the things of the Kingdom of God.
The Scripture says God uses the foolish things of this world to confound the wise, so that NO ONE may boast before God. (1 Corinthians 1:27-29)
God's way is usually the reverse of this world's wisdom.

Jesus was showing an example where He said the first will be the last and the last shall be the first. That takes humility attitude of servant hood.

Unbeknownst to many, Jesus came to serve us as well. This is proven in the scripture when Jesus wanted to wash Peter's feet and Peter response was "No,” said Peter, “you shall never wash my feet.”" (John 13). Jesus responded, “Unless I wash you, you have no part with me.”
Many a times, we are all like Peter. We can never conceive such a great and mighty God would want to do this. That signify God's love for us. and Jesus did say, unless you allow me you will have no part with me signifying to be in God's Ministry.

But you know what? I realize, It takes humility to allow Jesus a God to wash our feet. Many time we want our own glory. We want God to recognize our effort to get his approval but never wanted what He wants to do for us in our life. Man just do not know how to receive in humility unless he has a part of effort in it. And THAT is the greatest problems with the religions of this world. We always want self glorification instead of giving praise and glory to God for what He has done for us.

And this answers in Revelations 14:14-15. It talks about Jesus's servant hood and Trinity. BTW just to expound for your better understanding of the Bible. Many a times from the Book of Genesis all the way to Revelations, God the Father uses Angels to be his spokes person. As in the vision of Daniel, Abraham, The prophet Ezekiel, etc. Angel of God does not act on their own when it comes to God's ministry. They act upon instructions from God the Father.

Even as in the temptation of Satan, after Jesus defeated the Devil, The Angels came and attend and minister to Jesus. Here is one instance, The Angels serve Jesus.

Jesus said in Matthew 26:53
Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?

The Temple of God in Heaven is where God the Father dwells. (Revelation 15:8) The Angels was responding to God the Father's command to inform Jesus his Son to reap the harvest. This proves the Separate personification of God in 3 persons and yet as One. Here is one instance, Jesus taking command from God the Father signifying the distinct of Trinity. Not from Angels.

And if we were to go along with the Islamic line of thought about disproving Jesus as part of Trinity. Here is one thought for you to ponder as well.
If Jesus indeed is not the son of God, How can He be on the same Level of Heaven with the Father appearing in a white cloud and seated on it?

The book of Revelations 14 says Jesus wore a crown of Gold on his head and seated on white cloud. Doesn't that symbolised God?
The very point you try to use in your argument disprove your notion.

I hope this helps you.
imin
post Nov 23 2012, 04:22 PM

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hmmm ok. however it doesn't make sense for jesus to be both. god is a creator. man is a creation. this defies all logic
unknown warrior
post Nov 23 2012, 04:25 PM

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QUOTE(imin @ Nov 23 2012, 04:22 PM)
hmmm ok. however it doesn't make sense for jesus to be both. god is a creator. man is a creation. this defies all logic
*
Since when God can be contained within the boundary of logic?

an omnipotent God who exist outside of time and is above natural elements?


Read this.

God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all one. Moslems and the world will have a hard time understanding this trinity. But I just point that as trying to limit God in the box of our human thinking. If you can accept there's nothing impossible for God, then it's also fair for you to accept that God can co-exist in any form He desires. Back in the time of Moses, God came in the form of burning fire. He also came in the form of pillars of cloud to guide the Israelites through the wilderness.
pehkay
post Nov 23 2012, 04:25 PM

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QUOTE(imin @ Nov 23 2012, 03:21 PM)
any comment about this statement?

One Scripture tells me that Jesus is not God because Jesus himself defined who is God and who isn't. Jesus prayed to the Father in John 17:3-"And this is the way to have eternal Life, by knowing you, the Only True God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth". When Jesus already defined who is the Only God, then he has already defined who isn't God, which is everybody else. So, Jesus did say in that scripture that he is not God.
*
Not being offensive ... do they really read John 17? tongue.gif At least the first 2 verses tongue.gif



Jedi
post Nov 24 2012, 12:54 AM

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QUOTE(imin @ Nov 23 2012, 03:21 PM)
any comment about this statement?

One Scripture tells me that Jesus is not God because Jesus himself defined who is God and who isn't. Jesus prayed to the Father in John 17:3-"And this is the way to have eternal Life, by knowing you, the Only True God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth". When Jesus already defined who is the Only God, then he has already defined who isn't God, which is everybody else. So, Jesus did say in that scripture that he is not God.
*
In addition, (to add up on what Unknown Warrior has said, I will draw the 28th Sunday in Ordinary Time little sermon that I give to my Catholic Christian Fellowship student group (now 35th)

Mk 10:17-30

As Jesus was setting out on a journey, a man ran up,
knelt down before him, and asked him,
"Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
Jesus answered him, "Why do you call me good?

No one is good but God alone.
You know the commandments: You shall not kill;
you shall not commit adultery;
you shall not steal;
you shall not bear false witness;
you shall not defraud;
honor your father and your mother."
He replied and said to him,
"Teacher, all of these I have observed from my youth."
Jesus, looking at him, loved him and said to him,
"You are lacking in one thing.
Go, sell what you have, and give to the poor
and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me."
At that statement his face fell,
and he went away sad, for he had many possessions.

Commentary:

The Gospel reading left much for us to ponder. Let us check the first two lines, the man came up to Jesus. Why Jesus? Why not Bruce Wayne the Batman? Why not Liam Neeson? Ok serious, why not other rabbis or teachers of that time? here are plenty.

hmmm, the moment of our conception, God has placed a longing in our hearts. St Augustine says, 'You have made us for yourself, and our heart is restless until it rests in you.” It is natural for man to seek God. All of our striving for truth and happiness is ultimately a search for the one who supports us absolutely, satisfies us absolutely, and employs us absolutely in his service. A person is not completely himself until he has found God. “Anyone who seeks truth seeks God, whether or not he realizes it” (St. Edith Stein). In this reading, the man is longing for a guide from the Divine Being.

And then he called Jesus GOOD. - He hears within himself the voice of conscience, which urges him to what is good and warns him against what is evil. Anyone who follows this path reasonably finds God. - why on this context? lets look at the following paragraph.

Jesus answered him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. Christ gave a very clever answer. Jesus here rebuking the man for calling Him good and thereby denying His deity? No.

Rather, He is using a penetrating question to push the man to think through the implications of his own words (not just out of respect), to understand the concept of Jesus’ goodness and, most especially, the man’s lack of

goodness. The young ruler "went away sad" (Mark 10:22) because he realized that although he had devoted himself to keeping the commandments, he had failed to keep the first and greatest of the commandments—love the

LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength (Matthew 22:37-38). The man’s riches were of more worth to him than God, and thus he was not "good" in the eyes of God.

Jesus’ fundamental lesson here is that goodness flows not from a man’s deeds, but rather from God Himself. Jesus invites the man to follow Him, the only means of doing good by God’s ultimate standard. Jesus describes to the

young ruler what it means to follow Him—to be willing to give up everything, thus putting God first. When one considers that Jesus is drawing a distinction between man’s standard of goodness and God’s standard, it becomes

clear that following Jesus is good. The command to follow Christ is the definitive proclamation of Christ’s goodness. Thus, by the very standard Jesus is exhorting the young ruler to adopt, Jesus is good. And it necessarily follows

that if Jesus is indeed good by this standard, Jesus is implicitly declaring His deity.


The logic can thus be summarized as follows:
1: Jesus claims only God is good.
2: Jesus claims to be good.
3: Therefore, Jesus claims to be God. <---where the man reasonably finds on his path
, in his quest of longing for Divine Love, he found the Divine Being from whom, Divine Love flows.

Jedi
post Nov 24 2012, 01:01 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Nov 23 2012, 04:25 PM)
Since when God can be contained within the boundary of logic?

an omnipotent God who exist outside of time and is above natural elements?
Read this.

God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all one. Moslems and the world will have a hard time understanding this trinity. But I just point that as trying to limit God in the box of our human thinking. If you can accept there's nothing impossible for God, then it's also fair for you to accept that God can co-exist in any form He desires. Back in the time of Moses, God came in the form of burning fire. He also came in the form of pillars of cloud to guide the Israelites through the wilderness.
*
To follow the Mat 17-30 I posted: this is exactly what Jesus said after the 'rich' guy left, refusing to leave everything behind and follow Jesus.

Jesus looked around and said to his disciples,
"How hard it is for those who have wealth
to enter the kingdom of God!"
The disciples were amazed at his words.
So Jesus again said to them in reply,
"Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God!
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle
than for one who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."
They were exceedingly astonished and said among themselves,
"Then who can be saved?"
Jesus looked at them and said,
"For human beings it is impossible, but not for God.
All things are possible for God."

Peter began to say to him,
"We have given up everything and followed you."
Jesus said, "Amen, I say to you,
there is no one who has given up house or brothers or sisters
or mother or father or children or lands
for my sake and for the sake of the gospel
who will not receive a hundred times more now in this present age:
houses and brothers and sisters
and mothers and children and lands,
with persecutions, and eternal life in the age to come."

the comments for this passage are answered by Unknown Warrior at least 50%, in the part of self-glorification and humility. We always want to fly before we can walk, arent we? But we are actually able to crawl only, and before we fly, we must SERVE - learn to walk. smile.gif

so you see, Christ came down as full God, full man, He is the King, but the King He meants, is not the human King who sits on a humanly throne. This is also why Jews refuse to accept Jesus as the Messiah, because they expected someone more glorious, full of glory u can say, to come to this world and save their nation (from the Romans at that time).
It also has a rumor that Judas betrayed Christ, because Judas was expecting a glorious King, and not Jesus. Hence he accepted the 30 pieces of silver because he lost faith in his teacher.

Jews will nevertheless, see Christ in His full glory on the 2nd coming of Christ which will be their First - during the end of times, and we Christians will see the 2nd coming.

This post has been edited by Jedi: Nov 24 2012, 01:04 AM
Jedi
post Nov 24 2012, 03:42 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Nov 19 2012, 10:20 PM)
The Catholics are still preserving traditions and rituals as in the days of old Testament. That's why you practise sacraments and rituals. But you'll hardly hear this passage of the scripture below, preach in the RCC. - what? we preach the Gospel - 1st reading, 2nd reading, Gospel reading in Masses, albeit only in a ritualistic manner however u may call it

Hebrews 8:6-7
But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises. For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.

Here the Holy Spirit on purpose mention the Covenant of the OT is faulty and has something wrong . You can see the verse above and below.

I have no qualms, Jesus is indeed the new and ever-lasting covenant. The only thing we differ is about Jesus handling the keys of heaven to Peter, and upon this Rock - this giant stumbling rock to RCC n Protestant  vmad.gif that He passed down authority for Church to continue His mission, under the guidance of Holy Spirit. and for you, like you said, only Christ as the covenant, not the authority of Popes - Peter the first - as Vicar of Christ on earth.

Hebrews 8:8
But God found fault with the people and said: "The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.

Hebrews 8:13
By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and ageing will soon disappear

It is link to the verse below where it talks about priest of old representing the people to God. God has made that covenant obsolete.

Hebrews 10:11 says.
Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.

The reason priest need to stand is because they can never rest, for their work is not perfect is will never appease God perfectly. Jesus on the hand as our High Priest sat down at the right hand of God because his sacrifice is perfect and acceptable to God. He does not need to offer to God over and over again just like the priests of old. He sat down indicating his work is a complete finished atonement.

Therefore based on this scripture, Jesus is our High Priest today interceding on our behalf to the Father. Not human priest. Not saints, neither Mary.

We RCCs also agree on this one. Our sacrifices are indeed not worthy. In masses RCC proclaim: May the Lord accept our sacrifices at Your hands, for the praise and glory of His name, for our good, and the good of all His Church.
But, I think when it comes to the matter of eucharist, it is Christ's body. It is not our sacrifice. Hence I am willing to discuss this on another time, to clear this misconception - about Christ, not human. and the priest as Persona Christi when it comes to Eucharist, not human sacrifices like the old Pharisees.


Hebrews 7:26-28

26 For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens; 27 who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men who are weak; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.

The passage here gives the idea that it is fitting that only Jesus becomes our High Priest. The Holy Spirit purposely mention under the Law of the Old Covenant, the 10 commandments and law of Leviticus, Man who becomes Priest to represent us to God, they are called weak. The word weak means not as divine as Jesus.

So to say The saints are full of grace, divine or highly favoured and hence you still need them to practice the traditions of old, you're in essence not putting yourself under the New Covenant but of the Old which is obsolete.
Not supported in scripture,  brother. This is man's reasoning. The Catholics mainly rely on this logic, ]I agree with you. It is not written explicitly. whatever that is not explicit, Christians should not practice. That is your stand am i Right? - at least what protestants think, only obey and take what is biblical. So we will end this discussion bec I hold no theological knowledge (degree) to give a better explanation, but all I can say is, no harm trying. I tried, it works. U try? - it would be like blasphemy for you  sad.gif To God, never is. IMO at least. I give glory to God, and I give thanks to the Saints in heaven who care for the Saints on earth. so bro, its ok smile.gif at least I learn here Protestants do not practice, bec it is not explicitly written, I thought they just know how to bash RCCs with their knowledge of scriptres TBH before this discussion

If my prayer are not answered, I need to pray to the saint as backup or to speed it up. Bro I can fully understand the need for answer to prayer but it must be based on scriptures. This idea of praying to the saints actually denotes that Jesus is NOT the only mediator which is already contradiction. It's very hard to justify 1 Timothy 2:5. You can give 100 solid reasons but it still contradicts the meaning of one mediator. One mediator is one mediator.

Besides, it can sideline to a dangerous heresy. In the sense you put your Faith more on the saint rather on God or Jesus.
The Bible says very clearly

Jeremiah 17:5
This is what the LORD says: "Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who depends on flesh for his strength and whose heart turns away from the LORD.

You cannot deny there's this tendency to revered Apostles and Mary on the same level as Jesus by practising this. Now I didn't use the word worship but you can see how it's very possible to end up as such. That could lead to idolatry.
Well you said this.

"But asking for intercession (1 Timothy 2:1) from live, holy people is very biblical, due to the power they have (James 5:16, 2 Peter 1:4)." - Its my bad, sorry. maybe productive? is a better word.

Yes we are all Forgiven in Christ, justified and righteous by Faith. Not of your works. I can point this on tons of scripture verses that is in line with this.

Therefore your prayer can be akin to prayer of Man righteous as in James 5:16 when you based your righteousness by Faith in the finish work of Christ.

You are THAT righteous man and in turn your prayer is powerful and effective.

The only problem is that, do you have Faith to believe that? Bro, I ask you to pray for me to have this Faith, the wisdom to seek this faith in Lord. I would not say I am a righteous man. But I can say, I want to, and I am trying my very best, to reach this level.At times, I may lose the strength to persevere, only to see through with His grace. you are senior to me by decades of age perhaps - I am 21, so, pray for me smile.gif

If you cannot believe that and need to rely on your obedience or good works to be deemed as a righteous Man, then the foundation of your doctrine is already lost. Your righteousness falls on your works which is of the flesh or self effort. I call that self glorification towards God which is not biblical because the rest of this world's religion work in the same manner.

and I would say judge not, my works, but my Faith. My works, I give glory to God, and I ask strength to do more in His name, and for Him whenever possible, with His strength, within my means. Works of my own flesh, I pray not, I pray to understand than to be understood, to love than to be loved.

And You cannot use the scripture in James where it says Faith without works is dead, because that scripture is use to justify for doing the work of God in the context of Love which of course need action and not just mere empty talks. That's why it says, Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. Faith and action works hand in hand. But the key point in all scripture of the New Covenant is that only our Faith is credited as righteousness.

and if so, we believe in the same thing, and we defend the same faith (RCC and Protestants). The misconception would be: RCC work their way to heaven by their own flesh, but the truth is, we too, give glory and thanks to God, works by His grace.

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toda_III
post Nov 24 2012, 03:46 AM

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Why still v5? 125 pages is the maximum pages set by mod, no?


Added on November 24, 2012, 3:49 amJedi where are you from?

This post has been edited by toda_III: Nov 24 2012, 03:49 AM
Jedi
post Nov 24 2012, 04:00 AM

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Discussion with Unknown Warrior (1st Post)


Protestants:“Good Works have nothing to do with getting into heaven. Faith alone is what gets you into heaven.” (Some) Protestants don't believe in the necessity of good works for salvation (faith alone). Catholics believe that good works are a necessary fruit of one's faith.

Catholics and Orthodox: ''Faith must go hand in hand with works for a Christian, to get into heaven''

Misconception: Some Protestants think that Catholics add beliefs to what is necessary for salvation; Catholics believe that Protestants subtract beliefs as to what is necessary for salvation.

The real confusion which I found out today afterall: works of flesh or works of faith? rclxub.gif



First before we go on, I must say you have right it very clearly yourself, and I agree with 95% of it : by bolding what you wrote (apart from 1 article). I even saved many of it to my additions for future reference and share with people!!. I also conclude that after all that is being justified by others in the name of RCC/Protestant, we actually hold the same belief, unless, the person is adamant and understands the scriptures differently than an ordinary Christian or holds himself superior in interpretation. I will write why I agree on my next post as I plan to also put an article here for our bros n sis to clear this misconception wink.gif

Now to go on to some of your quotes which I really like, thank you for sharing smile.gif must have helped many many people who viewed them : (I will go in retro manner by timeline and at times not in order, to page no 150)

QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Nov 8 2012, 12:31 AM)
user posted image
I want share a revelation why our salvation is justified by faith and not effort in the flesh.
And I thank God, He has foreseen, that faith alone is able and will bring us out far better than our effort will be able to.

Most of us think that when we are fully obedient to God, we are saved from condemnation due to our own mistakes.
Hence deserve to partake Jesus sacrifice at the cross. I believe most Christians will think like this.
As long as I don't lie, don't watch porn, don't doubt, don't curse, don't lust at woman,
don't do this or that <insert whatever don't s >, I'm in a safe zone before God.
God can't judge against me for the things I didn't do.

What we don't sometime realize is that none of us are perfect. Myself included.
I don't think there's anyone on Planet Earth who is able to perfectly control his/her own emotion, thoughts or actions.
There are times we will fall in our journey of a Christian life. So to speak, missed the mark of grace. So what happens then?

I will tell you what happens next. We will feel a distance between us and God.
We will feel we are unworthy to come near to God because we have sinned.
The greater the sin, the greater we distance ourselves.

And Here is the solution : to sin, disconnection from grace. Faith is the answer.

Our effort may fail us from time to time. It takes time to grow and mature in the spirit, doesn't happen over night.
So when you fall from grace, the feeling of guilt and condemnation is there. To rely on effort, might cause a sense of hopelessness.
Under the New Covenant, The Bible have never supported once that we are justified by works for Righteousness but in fact discourage us to look to our works but 100% on Faith.

The Bible says we are transformed by the renewing of our mind, it didn't say by our effort. (Romans 12:2 )
So be transformed by believing. Right believing will lead to right living. Our transformation starts when we think right.

Have Faith in what Jesus has done for us. His sacrifice at the cross for your sins and mine has been finished.
Jesus cried out,"it is finished!" (John 19:30). Your Salvation is complete and finished at the cross, regardless of what you have done.

That is why the Bible says in

Hebrews 9:12
He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.

1 Peter 3:18
For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,

Jesus Sacrifice at the cross for you sins according to Hebrews 9:12 is eternal redemption. Stop for a moment, what is it saying here?
Your Salvation is eternal redemption. You cannot lose your Salvation. When you believe and have Faith in that, your repentance comes effortlessly.
You don't have to force it. The more you are conscious that you've been forgiven for past, current and future sins, your obedience and repentance comes as a fruit of the Holy Spirit! AMEN! Your Salvation is secure and assured.

*
QUOTE
I see All Churches that is Christ centred belongs to God as the head. And God uses different members for different purposes.  - Nov 6 - here, the vine and branch which bro also stated: refer my next post (article)

Galatians 5:6 Nov 3rd
But No, according to this verse in Galatians 5:4, if you try to justify yourself with the Law of the OT, you have fallen away from grace.
But if you read in the book of Romans, our Righteousness is given to us as a gift. (Romans 3:22) So Why are we still trying to earn it?
And all the while, I submit to you, people interpreted that as, oh I must obey in order to be righteous or to get blessings. - Simony
our Faith expressed through Love. Why Love? Because when we walk in love, one it fulfils all the requirement of the Law of OT (Galatians 5:14)


QUOTE
New Covenant Blessings Oct 31st I seriously hope this devotion will set you free. For you to know, it is your Faith that act as the foundation to your blessings. Your works or your obedience has been reassigned to love others.


Start Loving others as how Christ Loves the lost. - Oct 28th The power of loving others keeps you in victory

QUOTE(kendrickkeng @ Nov 21 2012, 05:27 PM)
the excellence of LOVE  thumbup.gif
1 Corinthians 13:4-13 NASB
1 Corinthians 13:4-13 NKJV

13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love. - not faith  cool2.gif 
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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Nov 21 2012, 07:02 PM)
ha, i like this. it talks about the gospel of Jesus grace.

Bible Verses
Luke 2:40 And the little child [Jesus] grew and became strong, being filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was upon Him.
Col. 2:3 In whom [Christ] all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are hidden.

Words of Ministry
Verse 40 says that as the Man-Savior was growing, He was being filled with wisdom. This wisdom, which came from the Savior's deity, was revealed in proportion to the measure of His bodily growth. Verse 40 also tells us that the grace of God was upon Him. As a Man, even Jesus needed the grace of God for His human life. He was filled with wisdom from His deity, and He needed the grace of God for His humanity. As God, the Man-Savior did not need grace. However, as a Man He needed the grace of God. Therefore, we are told in verse 40 that the grace of God was upon Him.

As human beings, we all need God's wisdom and grace. Wisdom is related to the way of doing things, and grace, to the power, the ability, to carry out those things. In our living we first need the way to do a particular thing; then we need the power to do it. Wisdom is the way, and grace is the power. We need wisdom in order to have the proper way. However, wisdom itself is not enough. We also need grace. If we do not have grace, we shall not have the power, strength, or energy to carry out a certain matter in the proper way. But we may have God's wisdom for our way and God's grace for our power, strength, and energy. The Man Jesus lived in God's wisdom and grace. You underlined it yourself.  brows.gif  icon_rolleyes.gif
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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Nov 21 2012, 10:44 PM)
Praying and trusting God while you continue doing your daily work and not worrying about your circumstances IS DOING something in the eyes of God. icon_rolleyes.gif  Not worrying IS pointing your Gun shooting the Bullet at the Devil, spiritually speaking. God will work when you have submissive trust in Him.
Shalom brother.
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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Nov 22 2012, 10:32 AM)
user posted image
How to increase Faith.
In the book of Luke, when the apostle asked Jesus how to increase their Faith, I think the first thing a lot of people
would think is to conjure up more Faith in them. To gather more Faith in oneself is equivalent to increasing Faith. But that's not what our Lord said.

He said, If you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be uprooted and planted in the sea,’ and it will obey you.

Jesus is saying in essence, if you want your Faith to increase, it's not about conjuring Faith in oneself but to issues command to your circumstances.

It's not always about quoting verses or prayer, though of course they are applicable but in this instance, Jesus teaches us to command.

Based on this scripture verse, we are to issue commands to our natural circumstances to change.

For example, if you have a health condition? Command it to be uprooted by it's root and be planted in the sea. Amen.

if you have financial situation, command your debts to be uprooted by it's root and be planted in the sea in Jesus Name.

I believe the reason Why the Holy Spirit mentioned to be up rooted by your roots is because when roots are remove, the whole symptoms are absolved.

God does not want Half Solutions to our problem. He wants total solutions and wholeness. Amen.

I remember a sister once asked me, how to increase Faith?

Well here is your answer. Start commanding!
- Start give water to your mustard seed!

Well you may say, but I have no Faith!

Sister, you just need a mustard seed Faith. It's very Small but it's enough for God to work powerfully in your commands!

Command it and believe it and you shall have it in Jesus Name.

Hope this helps you.

God Bless.
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and by the great jihadist of Christendom notworthy.gif
QUOTE(prophetjul @ Oct 22 2012, 02:58 PM)
There should Not be any PROFIT in doing something for someone we love.

The greatest example is when Jesus died for us. He did not profit from GIivng and OBEying.

This is the greatest love, that someone should lay down his life for another.

Salvic Grace is the gving of salvation inspite of what we are, sinners appointed for wrath.

Obedience is reciprocal to that love shown by God to us. We love because He first loved us.
It is also His grace and power which enables us to OBEY.
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Jedi
post Nov 24 2012, 04:39 AM

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Continuation from 1st:

Protestants:“Good Works have nothing to do with getting into heaven. Faith alone is what gets you into heaven.” (Some) Protestants don't believe in the necessity of good works for salvation (faith alone). Catholics believe that good works are a necessary fruit of one's faith.

Catholics and Orthodox: ''Faith must go hand in hand with works for a Christian, to get into heaven''

Misconception: Some Protestants think that Catholics add beliefs to what is necessary for salvation; Catholics believe that Protestants subtract beliefs as to what is necessary for salvation.

The real confusion which I found out today afterall: works of flesh or works of faith?
rclxub.gif Must be cleared

Before I start, please correct me for my ignorance and forgive me about that. and I do this for the interest of all Christians, not to justify any sides.


Why exists this misconception?

1) The Protestant New Testament contains the same books as the Catholic New Testament. Although Luther showed great hostility to St. James's Epistle because of its doctrine of the necessity of good works and contemptuously called it an "epistle of straw," he clearly saw that he had no more reason for excluding that book than he had for rejecting the other books of the New Testament. The differences between the Protestant and Catholic New Testament arise from changes in specific passages in various books of the New Testament.

2) There are many who have pointed out that Luther added the word, "alone" to Romans 3:28 (you can read one such example in this question) so that the Luther Bible reads:
for we reckon a man to be justified by faith alone without deeds of law
where the Greek reads:
for we reckon a man to be justified by faith without deeds of law

From wiki 'Luther Bible',The word "alone" does not appear in the Greek texts,[9] but Luther defended his translation by maintaining that the adverb "alone" was required both by idiomatic German and the apostle Paul's intended meaning.

Answer: Yes and no. Yes he added it, no it is not the atrocity that it necessarily implies.

Part of Luther's defense of the translation is that inclusion of the word "alone" is more grammatically correct than its exclusion.

His problem, though, is in the interpretation of the verse. If we're being true to the original Greek the passage is better understood, "of the set {faith, works of the law} man is only reconciled by faith."

Causes: Because when he was RCC Monk, He was a faithful person who did all his best to imitate the life of Christ. But he felt that something was missing. He felt that what he did was NOT ENOUGH, that people are still dying,

quarreling etc. Being a theologian and he is a professional theologian when it comes to St Paul's doctrine especially, one day he found new meaning in the Letter to the Romans. (Something like Buddha getting enlightenment)

There, he understood that his actions were in vain because he lacked faith. Then, he started to be more faithful than ever, and he did not care about actions for actions without faith is dead. But he had forgotten this, Faith without

action is equally dead.

I understand Protestants (some, who do not grasp the Scriptures properly or listen to a certain Pastor/anyone alike bashing RCCs) accuse us Catholics of trying to work our way into heaven, as if our works precede our

faith. They have it exactly backwards. Our faith precedes our works. Faith in Jesus and the resultant works go together like fire and heat. You can't have fire without heat, and you cannot have true faith in Jesus Christ without

good works. Jesus cursed the barren fig tree in Matthew 21:19 because it didn't bear fruit. Yes, it was a fig tree with leaves, but a useless fig tree because it didn't do what it was supposed to do - bear fruit.

Good works are the fruit of our faith, according to Paul in Colossians 1:10.

Jewish works of the law, which Paul condemns in Romans 3:28, are not good works.

James 2:24 PLAINLY says - You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Matthew 5:16 commands us all to do good works as a way to let our light shine before men, so as to give glory to God.

In Matthew 25, at the final judgment, only the people who performed good works got into heaven (Matthew 25:31-46). The people who did not were banished into hell. In those verses, Jesus said that whatever we do for the least of our brethren, we do to HIM.

Matthew 7:21 says "Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." (In other words, one has to do the good

works prescribed in Matthew 25:31-46!)

In the book of James, God declares through Scripture that faith without works is dead (James 2:14-17). Who wants dead faith? Dead faith is no faith at all. True faith in Jesus has good works embedded in it. Paul says that

scripture makes you complete by equipping you for every good work (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

Paul also says in Colossians 1:10 that good works are the fruit of our faith;

This is so important because

Jesus cursed the fig tree in Matthew 21:19 because it did not bear any fruit, and in Matthew 7:19 Jesus says that every tree that does not bear good fruit is to be cut down AND THROWN INTO THE FIRE.

Jesus says that we will do greater works than He did (John 14:12). The only useless kind of works are old Jewish works of the law (Galatians 3:10), like circumcision, ritual hand washing, and dietary laws.
These useless works of the law are certainly not good works, which we have to do as a result of our faith in Jesus Christ, and which we were created for (Ephesians 2:10).

Hebrews 10:24 says to stir up one another to "love and good works", which indicates that love and good works GO TOGETHER.

1 Timothy 6:18 says that the rich are to also be rich in good deeds, so that they can attain heaven.

Titus 3:8 says that those who believe in God must do good deeds, because they are excellent and profitable.

Therefore, Catholics, just like Jesus Christ and his apostles, don’t do good works in order to be saved; rather, we do good works because that is what Jesus expects us to do if we truly have faith in Him. Doing good

deeds is the imitation of Christ's life on earth, who raised the dead, healed the crippled, and made the blind see. St. Paul says that there are three things that abide; faith, hope, and love, and THE GREATEST of these is LOVE,

not faith - reminder (1 Corinthians 13:13)
. Faith in Jesus Christ and the resultant good works go together like heat and light from a flame! Pretty hard to separate those two?!


To sum up, echoing what Unknown Warrior shared with brothers and sisters alike here, meaning RCCs and Protestants should hold the same Truth

QUOTE
solution : to sin, disconnection from grace. Faith is the answer.
our Faith expressed through Love. Why Love? Because when we walk in love, one it fulfils all the requirement of the Law of OT (Galatians 5:14)
For you to know, it is your Faith that act as the foundation to your blessings. Your works or your obedience has been reassigned to love others.
Praying and trusting God while you continue doing your daily work and not worrying about your circumstances IS DOING something in the eyes of God.

I remember a sister once asked me, how to increase Faith?
Well here is your answer. Start commanding! - Start give water to your mustard seed!

and by prophetjul: Obedience is reciprocal to that love shown by God to us. - How do you obey? Guess you guys know that answer  nod.gif  (You know what, not Lord club party sex drugs)
So, my dear bros, if Faith is the Door,

Entering the Door (receiving faith), you see God, our Lord Jesus, you go and kneel/hug him etc (JOY and ELATION) = receiving grace

One who opens the door, HOWEVER, may decide to ENTER or NOT TO ENTER.

U may have faith (u open the door), to receive Grace if you truly have faith is another matter. One can proclaim Lord Lord but doing things that is not in the name of the Lord.

Faith + Grace = Fruits, Works of Law Faith



Thank you, for viewing and may God bless you all. and Thank you, Unknown Warrior, for your sharing. God willing, one day, if you ever come to Penang, I shall treat you a big one smile.gif

This post has been edited by Jedi: Nov 24 2012, 04:54 AM
Jedi
post Nov 24 2012, 05:28 AM

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QUOTE(OlgaC4 @ Nov 21 2012, 12:13 PM)
Hello guys need help.

What is the main different between Christian and catholic?

Just for my knowledge. Pastor ask this question and i don't know how to answer also.
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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Nov 21 2012, 04:48 PM)
lol, you summon me, i summon the Holy Spirit for help, because all knowledge of truth comes from Him.
Erm, that link provided by Skydrake pretty much cover the difference.

There are a few things in Catholicism which I know of.

1. They have extra books in the Bible (canons or Apocrypha) which the Protestant discarded due to historical inaccuracies, fables and contradictions like the book of Tobit which emphasize works or self effort which contradict the meaning of grace in the book of Romans.  If interested, Refer http://www.cathtruth.com/catholicbible/cathprot.htm

2. They believe in Prayer of the Saints and to Mary. (Some Protestants think that saints are dead and don't know what's going on down here on earth. Dead in the body = dead in the soul, they think.  Catholics believe that saints are very much alive, know what we are presently enduring, present our prayers to God,  and are equal to the angels.)

3. They consider Mary as the Mother of God, Queen of Heaven's Saint. (Some Protestants see Mary as an ordinary person, just like everyone else. Catholics see Mary as being handpicked by God to be the vessel of God’s Incarnation , the Mother of God who was always full of grace, the New Eve (who reversed Eve's action), a Woman Clothed with the sun who fights satan, and Our Mother.  In other words, like Gabriel said BEFORE the incarnation, The Lord IS WITH Thee!) as Tertullian, Early Church thinker put it: Into a virgin’s soul, in like manner, must be introduced that Word of God which was to raise the fabric of life; so that what had been reduced to ruin by this sex - might be the selfsame sex be recovered to salvation.

He means Eve ^ fall to sin, and Mary (we RCC would say: the New Eve as Christ is the New Adam: vessel for salvation of sin (Genesis 3:15) )


4. They believe Sin can be absolve through confessions to priests.

5. Very Ritualistic and the religious practise like burning of incense, basically it's very religion base as oppose to relationship base. (When you have relationship with your girlfriend/wife, you date her , propose to her and marry her officially, wear nicely, and carry your manners strictly. When it comes to every Sunday (1-2 hours/24x7 hours in 1 week), the only time you date God, when God always think about us and love us, it is also only right that one is  very particular about this/ Having said this, not to say Protestants are not strict or serious with God, but certain, fool around, offer cookies, not listening or respecting to the Pastor, picking up girls, exchanging flirts - Forgive me, for I judged. But..I saw it myself and while I enjoy protestant sermons most of the times, I deplore what those black-sheep followers do. oh well, problem of men, not of God. RCC has problems as well - i.e sleep in church so yeah,  sweat.gif )

6. They believe in a temporary Heaven call purgatory - The Second Book of Maccabees: besides purgatory, and of prayers and sacrifices for the dead (12:39-46) (rejected, not in Protestant Bible, given apocryphal (2nd place) and uninspired in Lutheran, Anglican Bible)

7. They believe the Pope is the supreme Authority in the Body of Christ. (Some Protestants believe in something called "the invisible church", which is a body of believers around the world who truly believe and follow Jesus Christ. The term "invisible church" is not found in the bible.  Catholics are part of a very visible and active worldwide Church.)

8. They believe Salvation need to be attained through works. - Some Protestants don't believe in the necessity of good works for salvation (faith alone).  Catholics believe that good works are a necessary fruit of one's faith.

9. They have laws like Canon law (Catholics), Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC), 10 commandments, papal decrees and orders. (Some Protestants believe that the Bible is self explanatory, a doctrine that is not found in the Bible. Catholic believe that the Church, the creator and originator of the Bible through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, has the authority to properly interpret scripture.) c) Some Protestants believe that the Bible alone is the pillar of truth. Catholics believe The Church is the Pillar of Truth, and the Church uses its Bible like a University uses its textbooks - to teach those hungry for the Word. d) Some Protestants see things as "either/or  - You must love Jesus, but not Mary or the saints.  "Faith alone" and "Scripture alone" are how they view salvation. Catholics certainly believe in loving Jesus, faith and scripture,  but also include the necessities of the Church, Sacred Tradition, the Magesterium, the communion of saints, the sacraments, love, hope, charity, etc.

10. Some Protestants think that every Christian is a priest (the priesthood of believers), and see nothing special about Catholic Priests.  Catholics recognize that Catholic Priests are consecrated (set apart) so that they can give us all the Eucharist and Absolution in the sacrament of confession.

11. Some Protestants believe that any and all statues in a church is idolatry. Catholics know that there were 2 statues of angels on top of the ark of the Covenant which carried the 10 commandments, that Solomon's temple had statues of cherubim in it, and that the Israelites in the desert were cured from snakebites by looking at a statue of a serpent.  It is only a sin if one worships the statue as if it were God, like when the Israelites worshiped the golden calf.

12. Mentality: Sensitivity that is. Some Protestants will give you leaflets to read that explain how they got "saved", and how they think you should also.  When Catholics give Protestants something to read, especially if it talks about the Mother of God, they will never read it, and instead will usually recoil in horror as if the devil was after them. b) Some Protestants love to quote scripture that proves their point of view is correct.  However, they do not like it when Catholics quote scripture back to them that proves the Catholic view is correct. They most likely will get offended at you for trying to evangelize them with scripture and will shut down the conversation when that happens. c) Some Protestants believe that their personal view of scripture is the only right way to interpret scripture (some might say infallible), even when it conflicts with other Protestants' view of scripture. And they will even claim that their personal view is the only correct view, at the same time they claim that no Pope can ever be infallible, because he's just a man.  And this personal interpretation of scripture flies in the face of what Peter said about it in 2 Peter 1:20!

13. From a catholic site, Catholics don't believe that salvation happens until the moment of death, because, as Paul says, it is a race that has to be run until the end. (I still believe that we are all granted Salvation, however to enter heaven directly or through Purgatory depends on our pureness)

14. Some Protestants believe that you have to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior. Catholics consume Jesus - Body, Blood, Soul, & Divinity - in the Eucharist. You can't get any more personal than that. b) Some Protestants believe that the Eucharist is only a memorial or a symbol of Jesus.  Catholics believe that the Eucharist is the physical Body and Blood of Christ, which also forgives sins.

15. Some Protestants like to say that the Catholic Church is evil because of the Inquisition and the Crusades.  They conveniently ignore all of the Catholics killed by Protestant leaders in Ireland and England, as in the Irish Martyrs and the English Martyrs.  And they will never bring up the alleged witches killed by Protestant leaders in Salem Massachusetts.  And then there was Jonestown and Waco.

16. Some Protestants like to accuse the Catholic Church of being anti-science, because of one and only one thing,  the Galileo affair (Galileo was funded by the Catholic Church, and he had not adequately proven his theory of heliocentricity to the Church.  Galileo was wrong about the earth's orbit causing the ocean tides, and he was also wrong about the earth's orbit being a perfect circle).  For the record, the Catholic Church has funded thousands of science projects throughout the centuries, including the huge Vatican Observatory. Gregor Mendel, who discovered genetics, was a Catholic priest.  The only reason any science at all made it through the dark ages was because of the Catholic Church hiding all of the textbooks from the rampaging  and pillaging Huns, Vandals, and Visigoths.  They will accuse the church of being anti science at the same time they deny scientific theories like evolution.

17. Some Protestants love to point out the church scandals with homosexual priests attacking altar boys. They will say "See - This not only proves that celibacy is wrong because it caused these attacks, but it also proves the Catholic Church is evil." However, when Protestant Pastors get caught cheating on their wives, or molesting kids in huge Protestant "compounds" in Waco, TX and other places, they don't refer to them as Protestants, but rather, as cults. They will get real offended when you refer to David Koresh, Tony Alamo, or Jim Jones as "Protestants".

18. Some Protestant pastors feel no guilt whatsoever about making huge salaries. Catholic priests do not make huge salaries.

19. Some Protestants view the Church as a meeting place of believers, for bible reading, singing, fellowship, and preaching, and they are free to pick and choose different churches based on what they personally feel to be true.  Catholics view The Church as a holy meeting place where the Eucharist and the other six sacraments are dispensed by God's priests to give us His sanctifying grace.  The first half of the Mass (prefigured in Malachi 1:11) is the Liturgy of  The Word, the second half is the Liturgy of The Eucharist.

20. Some Protestant Churches believe that you can change the definition of sin  by a simple majority vote of the elders, like with abortion, artificial birth control, and homosexuality.  They do this to be more "relevant" to the modern world.  The Catholic Church does not wish to go along to get along with the world.

21. Some Protestant Churches are pastor based churches, where the congregation loves and believes in the personal beliefs, charisma, and speaking style of their Pastor. Billboards advertising their church may have a huge picture of the pastor on the billboard.  Catholic Churches are Eucharistic-based churches, and the priest is not the main attraction. The Eucharist is.

22. Some Protestants don't really believe in biblical typology, where a person or an event in the Old Testament foreshadows a person or an event in the New Testament. Catholics see this as a primary tool of biblical exegesis.

23. Some Protestants believe that drinking wine is evil. Catholics believe that Jesus changed the water into wine at the wedding feast at Cana, and that this is a good thing. Getting drunk on wine, of course is evil. - Really?

24. Some Protestants believe that the whore of Babylon is the Catholic Church. Catholics believe that it is a city that martyred the saints, like Jerusalem. 

25. Some Protestants believe the Pope is the Antichrist. Catholics believe that the antichrist is anyone who denies that Jesus is the Christ, which would exclude every Pope. - Personally, as much as I believe in Papal Infallibility, There was once a pope who sold his seat because Papal States was bankrupt (forgot his name). That alone is very  doh.gif

26. Some Protestants do not believe in the holiness of relics.  Catholics believe that relics are sacred and have spiritual power.

27. Some Protestants do not believe that grace is administered through the seven sacraments.  Catholics believe that the sacraments are one of God's ways of delivering His grace.

adapted from http://www.catholicbible101.com/catholicprotestant.htm . IT would be a good read and considerably for your Pastor, Olga, but I do not think we should take it seriously and also to judge our brothers, sisters alike.  sad.gif  i.e in worship, some ppl like rock song, some ppl like evergreens, some ppl even like rap songs, but as long as they have the heart and soul to worship God, I see nothing wrong. In fact I really love i.e Hillsongs, Chris Tomlin, Ana Laura etc. and Humans err, that is why all of us need Christ, this I know  icon_rolleyes.gif

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This post has been edited by Jedi: Nov 24 2012, 05:43 AM
unknown warrior
post Nov 24 2012, 12:14 PM

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Fuh Jedi this is really TLBIR

(too long but I read)


lol. Will reply to you later. Got lunch appointment today.

God Bless.
unknown warrior
post Nov 24 2012, 12:19 PM

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QUOTE(skydrake @ Nov 23 2012, 11:47 AM)
downloading..
downloading.. btw its this illegal? LOL!  rclxub.gif
Good day brother alvin,
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honestly I have no proper answer for this.

perhaps someone else can help.

OlgaC4
post Nov 24 2012, 01:40 PM

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QUOTE(Jedi @ Nov 24 2012, 05:28 AM)

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Thanks Bro Jedi
Jedi
post Nov 24 2012, 03:56 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Nov 24 2012, 12:14 PM)
Fuh Jedi this is really TLBIR

(too long but I read)
lol. Will reply to you later. Got lunch appointment today.

God Bless.
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Actually is just Post #3570 that is important, others are all quotes from your examples that I agree smile.gif

hehe, God bless!


on a side note: tell me what do you think of this year's Dec 21,2012 even though it is not the end of times. hmm.gif

My friend was talking with me over the phone for an hour for this issue. He worries much that if Christ comes, he is not ready. acc to my friend, the 3-day darkness of earth (where the sun will be eclipsed - can be scientifically explained) but falls too much coincidentally with Christ dying on the cross. It will happen at 3.21pm (GST?!) - Christ died around this time, and there was total darkness.
3 days, Resurrection. and the Sun will appear again. well he seems to think that after this, is a 'new' period on earth, perhaps a period of more chaos and dark times..
Of course, as Christians we should prepare always regardless of when etc even though it will not be in our lifetime, and also to look optimistically.
Jedi
post Nov 25 2012, 05:25 AM

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QUOTE(OlgaC4 @ Oct 24 2012, 04:16 PM)
Anyway FYI. Satan is very handsome since he is the fallen angle. Since we are Son of Daughter of God, satan is powerless against us.
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This handsome? icon_idea.gif
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


btw, excellent posts about 10 Commandments and although quite a 'drama', it is wonderful to see how arguements bring about stronger relations btw bros n sis and a more fruitful understanding. wub.gif

the Truth indeed sets us free. Christ is the truth, therefore, when we love, we do not break the 10 commandments, that is how we, living images of Christ, should imitate on the life of Christ.

If we love for example, I love Olga. therefore someone asks me to kill Olga but why would I? 'since Olga is a female name I would use 'she' ', in this way, the commandment 'Thou shall not kill' is fulfilled. We are free from the law.

John 8:32
New International Version (NIV)
32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Bro Unknown Warrior wants this idea conveyed basically smile.gif



Alvin330000421
post Nov 25 2012, 04:45 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Nov 23 2012, 05:15 PM)
So is this a fair assessment to say,

until they come and seek your forgiveness,

you still hold grudges against those who hurt you?
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Seek my forgiveness? I have no problem with them. But they seem to have some problems with me.

You see, I visited that youth church, at that time I was looking for a church to settle down after my studies. But it was hard to mix because they were very clickish and the youth pastor distrusted newcomers.

As you have read, the youth pastor was very rude.

I brought this up to one of the youth leaders. You know what he said to me? He told me off that I am a newcomer and that I needed to gain the trust of the rest of them. He told me to stay long like 5 to 10 years and persevere to gain acceptance there. I was thinking like...this is ridiculous. THis is the house of god, the place where we welcome the lesser people because it is these people who will serve the church, not the rich, not the handsome or pretty, nor the influential politicians. So why must i prove myself to gain their trust? THat is ludicrious. If the youth pastor is so distrustful to outsiders, then don't bother starting any ministry or church in the first place, because everything we do is a risk and if we don't trust god and rely on our own discrimination against other people for safety and security, then mind as well close down the church.

Btw, I did ask for a role in the youth ministry but was not granted any.

And so, I went for youth bible study and every time I run into that youth leader who told me that ridiculous statement, you know what? I smile at him...even wave hi to him...he ignored me.

Gosh. Later I ask him why he is like that. Then he made excuses that he is like that, because he is busy from work and thinking a lot of things.

But seriously, if we are to show such blackfaces in front of our brothers and sisters in christ then don't bother to serve. He serves a lot but he don't reflect any kindness at all, thats for sure.

This post has been edited by Alvin330000421: Nov 25 2012, 04:49 PM
unknown warrior
post Nov 25 2012, 10:03 PM

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QUOTE(Jedi @ Nov 24 2012, 03:56 PM)
Actually is just Post #3570 that is important, others are all quotes from your examples that I agree  smile.gif

hehe, God bless!
on a side note: tell me what do you think of this year's Dec 21,2012 even though it is not the end of times.  hmm.gif

My friend was talking with me over the phone for an hour for this issue. He worries much that if Christ comes, he is not ready. acc to my friend, the 3-day darkness of earth (where the sun will be eclipsed - can be scientifically explained) but falls too much coincidentally with Christ dying on the cross. It will happen at 3.21pm (GST?!) - Christ died around this time, and there was total darkness.
3 days, Resurrection. and the Sun will appear again. well he seems to think that after this, is a 'new' period on earth, perhaps a period of more chaos and dark times..
Of course, as Christians we should prepare always regardless of when etc even though it will not be in our lifetime, and also to look optimistically.
*
Before I start. I would like to make one thing clear. BY no means I'm advocating a Non-Obedience doctrine.

Those who claim to love God should walk a lifestyle of obedience to God as a prove of your proclamation.

The Bible says If anyone claim to love God but hates his brother is a liar. (1 John 4:20)
The Bible also says if anyone obediently practise love, Jesus and The Father will come and make their Home in Him. (John 14:23)

This is also one of the multi-facet meaning in this verse

John 4:24
God is spirit, and his worshippers must worship in spirit and in truth. In spirit denotes (John 14:23), In Truth denotes (1 John 4:20)

Now I will start preaching. tongue.gif



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Salvation By Grace Alone.

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

Grace is unearned and unmerited gift of God. A gift, by definition, it's something given to you freely, something you didn't work for.
Of course The Lord's Salvation was not without a cost. It cost Jesus Christ to suffer and sacrifice his life, so that we don't have to.

This verse Romans 11:6, is the strongest prove that Salvation is only by Grace and not of works.

Because Man can turn even obedience into works. Of the Flesh.

Ephesians 2:9 (NIV) Says
not by works, so that no one can boast.

Romans 4:2 (NIV) Says
If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about--but not before God.

2 Timothy 1:9 (NIV) Says
who has saved us and called us to a holy life--not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,

Titus 3:5 (NIV) Says
he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

A lot of Christians are not secured about their Salvation. Just like your Friend who cry in dilemma that He's not ready.
Do you know why? Because they think it's is their act of performance plus their Faith that secures their Salvation.
When they have not performed enough, they tremble in fear. But that is not what Romans 11:6 says.

The Holy Spirit Makes it very clear in

Romans 4:5 (KJV)
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 4:5 (ESV)
And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

The Apostle Paul says in

Philippians 3:9 (NIV)
and become one with him. I no longer count on my own righteousness through obeying the law; rather, I become righteous through faith in Christ. For God's way of making us right with himself depends on faith.

Ephesians 2:8 (NIV) Says
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--

And They always use this quote. Faith without works is dead. Quoting from the Book of James.
Works is the result of Faith. Therefore Salvation is justified by Faith + Works.

My Dear Friends, That Scripture verse is meant for Justification before Man, not God. The Holy Spirit, spoke to me about this revelation, with this part.

Look carefully in James 2:22 & 24. The Starting words in those 2 verses are "You see" Who is this "You"? smile.gif

Yes, they refer to us, Not God. So James is referring to all our brothers and sister, it's not just empty talk but our action that counts, that justify when we say We love our Brothers, that justify when we say We love God. We need to walk our talk.

But you must understand one thing clear, dear Friends, our obedience can never make us righteous. It can never save us even couple with Faith.

Yes. There is no double talk with God.

God gave us the 10 commandment to prove that we cannot save ourselves through performance. The more we try, the more we will Fail, even couple with Faith. It will not work. Do you know why?

Galatians 3:19 (NIV) explains it
Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins. But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised. God gave his law through angels to Moses, who was the mediator between God and the people.

The Law was designed and given to make Man come to the end of himself. To show our sins. Full stop. It was given to let us know, our self effort is pointless and this is so expressed so vividly by Paul in Philippians 3:9. He said I no longer count my own righteousness through obeying the law.

So the question now is, whose obedience matter to God the Father?

Romans 5:19 (NIV) answers it.
For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

It is Jesus's obedience that God the Father literally accepts as righteous. Not yours. not your Friends, Not your Pastors, nor any Priests or Saints.

But when you put your Faith in Jesus's atonement, God the Father imputes Righteousness into your account as a gift.

So tell your friend who felt he has not done enough, to relax. Since when it's his obedience?

No Dear Friends. Only God deserve and gets the Glory. It is Jesus obedience that makes all of us righteous.

So start walking in assurance, that your Salvation is eternal redemption! Amen.

When you have the right foundation and believe, obedience comes naturally as a fruit, it is no longer a root for righteousness.

I hope you will share this to your friend and let the word of God set him free, Amen?

God Bless.


















unknown warrior
post Nov 25 2012, 10:21 PM

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Joined: Jul 2005
QUOTE(Alvin330000421 @ Nov 25 2012, 04:45 PM)
Seek my forgiveness? I have no problem with them. But they seem to have some problems with me.

You see, I visited that youth church, at that time I was looking for a church to settle down after my studies. But it was hard to mix because they were very clickish and the youth pastor distrusted newcomers.

As you have read, the youth pastor was very rude.

I brought this up to one of the youth leaders. You know what he said to me? He told me off that I am a newcomer and that I needed to gain the trust of the rest of them. He told me to stay long like 5 to 10 years and persevere to gain acceptance there. I was thinking like...this is ridiculous. THis is the house of god, the place where we welcome the lesser people because it is these people who will serve the church, not the rich, not the handsome or pretty, nor the influential politicians. So why must i prove myself to gain their trust? THat is ludicrious. If the youth pastor is so distrustful to outsiders, then don't bother starting any ministry or church in the first place, because everything we do is a risk and if we don't trust god and rely on our own discrimination against other people for safety and security, then mind as well close down the church.

Btw, I did ask for a role in the youth ministry but was not granted any.

And so, I went for youth bible study and every time I run into that youth leader who told me that ridiculous statement, you know what? I smile at him...even wave hi to him...he ignored me.

Gosh. Later I ask him why he is like that. Then he made excuses that he is like that, because he is busy from work and thinking a lot of things.

But seriously, if we are to show such blackfaces in front of our brothers and sisters in christ then don't bother to serve. He serves a lot but he don't reflect any kindness at all, thats for sure.
*
Dear Alvin.

If you want my opinion and advise.

Here it is. If you truly believe you no longer have any problem with those who hurt you, ie, that Youth Pastor, etc.

Don't bring up the subject anymore. Don't bring up what they have done to you. Let it go means literally letting go in the sense, if anyone coincidently talk about this subject, refuse to recount the experience again. Just say I've forgiven them in Jesus Name and I have no more pain in Jesus Name.

If you can still recall all the details, perhaps there's a part of you that still feel the pain and hurt. That is subconscious unforgiveness.

It can be used by the Devil to hold you down. Perhaps it could be one of the reason, why your prayers are not answered pertaining to your desire to find a life partner.

It's one of the challenges of living a Christian Life. To forgive the people who hurt you.

And the Devil knows how to use this to attack Christians very well.

I pray that God will open up your heart and I pray you will let it all go in Jesus Name.

God Bless.





skydrake
post Nov 25 2012, 11:50 PM

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Joined: May 2009


QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Nov 24 2012, 12:19 PM)
honestly I have no proper answer for this.

perhaps someone else can help.
*
no worry tongue.gif

QUOTE(Alvin330000421 @ Nov 25 2012, 04:45 PM)
Seek my forgiveness? I have no problem with them. But they seem to have some problems with me.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

*
With this quote above, I really hope that u may take unknown warrior advise as below.

QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Nov 25 2012, 10:21 PM)
Dear Alvin.

If you want my opinion and advise.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

*
Let's put the "subject" away together and let it all go in Jesus Name. And I hope brother alvin can stay in this thread longer too.. so we all together can learn more in coming days. nod.gif

This post has been edited by skydrake: Nov 25 2012, 11:50 PM

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