QUOTE(prophetjul @ Apr 25 2012, 11:40 AM)
What you wrote is decribing yourself
i tried to lead you point by point to shew the problem with your arguemnets
yet you do not see the problem because you see the trees but do not see the doctrinal FOREST
so here it goes again
i showed you: Jesus became poor inspite of whatever reason.
God commends a poor church in smryna and call them RICH!
Faith is pleasing to God. God is pleased with Smryna.
Therefore Smryna has faith.
According to you:
God wants christians to be wealthy.
According to you: if you are not, you misunderstand God about wealth and richess.
My understanding is if you misunderstand God, you have no faith.
So according to you: Smryna misunderstood God. Therefore No Faith.
Hows this pleasing to God?
YET God is pleased with Smryna.
SO
According to you, the conclusion would be
a) Jesus misunderstood God and was wrong because He became poor(forget the consequence)
b) God would be wrong to commend Smryna for their faith becasue they had none! Your exegesis of scripture is STILL full of holes
The word Rich to you seems to all about material wealth.
Yet God calls Smryna RICH in their dire proverty...........Go figure God's REVELATION.
QUOTE(prophetjul @ Apr 19 2012, 08:14 AM)
i guess we better agree to disagree here
since we do comprehend each other!
And i certainly do not have the time to check back when its clear as daylight you wrote those
and yet deny such as
Answered point by point below.
First of all my devotion is open to all.
I don't force anyone to agree with me.
You're the one who got paranoid thinking I'm trying to change the scripture,
but people who have better discernment or comprehension would know I'm not.
You should certainly take the initiative to try read again and again if you think something is amiss.
I don't know if you're the type of reader who rush through impatiently but based on your repeated questions,
I have to assumed you are that type.
Because I've already highlighted the part where
you seeing the result is the
end result of your Faith not the beginning.
You definitely have to see your answered prayers with your eyes unless you're physically blind.
It doesn't get any easier to summarise this, If you're still adamant, use the dictionary and check what's the definition of end result.
Do you know the point God wanted to make when Abraham was commended for his Faith even though He didn't see it happen in his life time (Hebrews 11:29)?
The reason is this, Abraham was commended by God because
He held on believing He'll receive the promise even until his death.
That is the attitude God wants every believer to have. This attitude coincides with what I posted about
2 Corinthians 1:20
For no matter
how many promises God has made,
they are "Yes" in Christ. And so through him the "Amen" is spoken by us to the glory of God..
Matthew 9:29
According to your faith will it be done to youQUOTE(prophetjul @ Apr 19 2012, 08:14 AM)
To summarise since you have taken me on a long and winding journey
You said: God wants you to be wealthy amny time now. (thats a doctrine) - proven with the scriptures above*.
That's not proven....you were stretching and adding onto scriptures to justify prosperity teaching AND Deutronomy is not for you.[/color]
Secondly learn and understand this.
There's nothing wrong with
prosperity teaching as long as you understand
everything you achieved,
every money that you have, every skills, talent and ability, every source of your Life comes from God (John 15:5, Deuteronomy 8:18, Philippians 4:19, etc)
and you
don't seek after it to the point
you lose focus on seeking God.(Matthew 6:33)New Age prosperity teaching by pass the Cross and focus too much on prosperity. That is wrong. I am well aware of what you're tying to point here.
2 Timothy 3:16 says
All Scripture is inspired by
God or God breath in some translation.
It
didn't say only certain part of the Bible or
only the New Testament is. Hebrews 4:12 Says the word of God is
Alive, Living, Active and Powerful.John 6:63 Says the word of God is
Spirit and Life.This means Every Book in the Bible, from Genesis all the way to Revelation is God inspired. Every part of the book would include Deuteronomy.
You can basically meditate the scripture from Genesis and to Revelation and by God's grace, He will speak to you.
I did not stretch or add anything into the scriptures. It says exactly what it is, that God is indeed in favour of prospering you.
Deuteronomy 8:18
But remember the LORD your God, for it is He who gives you the ability to produce
wealth, and so confirms his covenant, which he swore to your forefathers, as it is today
2 Corinthians 8:9
For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, so that you through his poverty might become
rich.
Deuteronomy 28:8
The LORD will send a blessing on your barns and on
everything you put your hand to. The LORD your God will bless you in the land he is giving you.
Deuteronomy 15:10
Give generously to him and do so without a grudging heart; then because of this the LORD your God will bless you in
all your work and in
everything you put your hand to.
Proverbs 3:9–10
Honor the LORD with your wealth, with the firstfruits of all your crops;then your barns will be
filled to overflowing, and your vats
will brim over with new wine.
If you're going to fall back into denial, refer to 2 Timothy 3:16, Hebrews 4:12 and John 6:63.
QUOTE(prophetjul @ Apr 19 2012, 08:14 AM)
i said: God commends both Macedonia and Smryna who were poor, for their faith. - Correct! for their faith, NOT because they were poor.
Jesus became poor. What has Jesus becoming poor has got to do with both Macedonia and Smryna?
QUOTE(prophetjul @ Apr 19 2012, 08:14 AM)
Jesus became poor. Was He wrong to do that since you said those who are poor misunderstands God about prosperity and wealth? *
Jesus understood perfectly. He became poor so that through His sacrifice on the cross, He reconciled us back to God so that our Heavenly Father can reach to us and bless us with every blessing which include Material wealth, that's the meaning of the last part we become Rich.
Read the entire passage.
2 Corinthians 8:9
For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, so that you through his poverty might become rich. QUOTE(prophetjul @ Apr 19 2012, 08:14 AM)
<snip> All about Macedonia and Smryna
Macedonia is made know in the scripture for giving beyond what they have as you can see from the verse below.
This is about their generosity, not their poverty.
Even the NIV translation put the header Generosity in the Bible.
I feel that Macedonia is irrelevant to support your opinion. Look at the word below "I testify". That is the focus.
QUOTE
2 Corinthians 8: 2-3
Out of the most severe trial, their overflowing joy and their extreme poverty welled up in rich generosity. For I testify that they gave as much as they were able, and even beyond their ability.
Smyra is an event in the future yet to happen. The Scripture tells us that they're going through some kind of affliction and their poverty is somehow related. The word Rich according to Barnes Note relates to God's favour and grace. Here if you study the scripture, God is acknowledging their (2) conditions. 1. Affliction 2. Poverty.
According to online dictionary the meaning of commend
to present, mention, or praise as worthy of confidence, notice, kindness, etc.
I believe you're hinting towards praise. But if you study the NIV translation below, Jesus says I know, He did say I praise your poverty. Again, I don't see how you're using this to support your preposition.
QUOTE
In Revelation 2:9
I know your afflictions and your poverty--yet you are rich! I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
So what do you think?
QUOTE(prophetjul @ Apr 19 2012, 08:14 AM)
hint: i am not looking at the reason.i am lookin at your consistncy of arguemnet.
JESUS BECAME POOR.
Irrelevant. Jesus becoming poor has nothing to do with Macedonia and Smryna. As explained above.
QUOTE(prophetjul @ Apr 19 2012, 08:14 AM)
You dont seem to understand what your arguements are getting you into!
Your arguements are basically insinuating Jesus misunderstood God about wealth and prosperity.
by becoming poor to show an example.
If you cant get this, let me show you...in your own words:
i showed you: Jesus became poor inspite of whatever reason.
The "whatever reason" is important because
that is what complete the meaning of 2 Corinthians 8:9. Otherwise you'll be quoting scripture out of context as you so evidently accuse me of.
QUOTE(prophetjul @ Apr 19 2012, 08:14 AM)
Faith is pleasing to God. God is pleased with Smryna.
Therefore Smryna has
faith.
Correct.
QUOTE(prophetjul @ Apr 19 2012, 08:14 AM)
God
commends a poor church in smryna and call them RICH!
I've already explain above, the word commend is not suited because Jesus did not PRAISE (assuming that's what you meant). He
acknowledge their poverty
QUOTE(prophetjul @ Apr 19 2012, 08:14 AM)
According to you: Smryna misunderstand God. Hows this pleasing to God?
According you the conclusion would be
a) Jesus misunderstood God and was wrong to become poor(forget the consequence)
b) God would be wrong to commend Smryna for their faith
This is a matter of misunderstanding principal. Nothing to do with pleasing God.
You quote the part of Jesus being poor out of context. 2 Corinthians 8:9 never even mention about asking you as the believer to be poor and to follow as an example Because there are many things Jesus did by example and He asked us to follow. A good reference would be when He washed the disciple's feet. If we were to agree with your line of reasoning, then by Jesus walking on the water, We should give a try too? Common, have better sense.
Nope God is RIGHT to commend Smyra for their Faith.
QUOTE(prophetjul @ Apr 19 2012, 08:14 AM)
Your exegesis of scripture is full of holes
The word Rich to you seems to all about material wealth.
Yet God calls Smryna RICH in their dire proverty...........Go figure.
Well if you think it's full of holes, I welcome your refuting points with better explanation,
don't just resort to just accusing, saying bad things about me and ask open ended questions which lead readers wondering what you're trying to say.
Already explained above and before and before, you go figure.
QUOTE(prophetjul @ Apr 19 2012, 08:14 AM)
i think i rather err on the side of God and Jesus!
Which you rightly should.
QUOTE(prophetjul @ Apr 19 2012, 08:14 AM)
The other thing about ALL blessings being redeemed in this side of life.
If ALL blessings(incl healing) has been redeemed as you insinuated, then we should have everlasting life
NOW. Do you?
QUOTE
John 6:47 NIV translation
I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life.
Notice the word there
has? It didn't say will have.
Unless you don't believe, then I can't blame you.