Good thread. Looking forward to see how the discussion would turn out.

Actually, as long as you achieve what you want to achieve then you are succesful.
A successful person would then be simply categorized as one who constantly achieve their goals.
It has nothing to do with how you feel.


This post has been edited by teongpeng: Feb 17 2011, 11:33 PM

First of all i wasnt talking about happiness. i was talking about the definination of success.

Second of all, contentment IS NOT about achieving goals. Contentment is about having no more goals to achieve.

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Added on February 18, 2011, 9:35 amThus the purpose of this thread. We know that wealth does not lead to happiness. But the question is, can happiness/passion lead to wealth?

This post has been edited by teongpeng: Feb 18 2011, 09:38 AM

This is correct. However as a practitioner of zen, you should also understand that success or achievement arent only revolved around getting a result. Look deeper, the very act of doing, the very act of putting in your best effort, is already a success because the journey is now the the goal. When your goal is just to do your best, and you did your best, you are already succesful in that goal. GUARANTEED.

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Added on February 18, 2011, 9:47 amYou may be content now, but if you have future goals to achieve then you are no longer content. Can you understand this?

You can only be content if your goal is to act, thus when you are in action in the NOW, you are living your goal moment to moment.

If you can only be content based on what you have achieved in the past, then you are living in the past. Thats not zen.

This post has been edited by teongpeng: Feb 18 2011, 09:55 AM

None of that are virtues.

1. Truth is not virtue, being honest is.
2. wholeness is not virtue, wholesome action is.
3. perfection is not virtue, striving to be better is.
4. self-sufficiency is not a virtue, making the effort to be independant is.
5. passion is not a virtue, following your passion is (or could be?)
6. simplicity is not virtue - being simple is.

3. and 4. ofcourse can be summarised as virtue of hardwork and honet effort.

This post has been edited by teongpeng: Feb 18 2011, 10:32 AM

yup i agree its just semantics. I didnt say your content/message is wrong. Just that its important that we clarify certain usage of words so that if we were to have future discussions, we would be talking on the same page.

Stirving for perfection or striving to be better are merely differenct standard in the goal we set for ourselves. The virtue here is hardwork and making an effort, taking initiative etc. Other virtues involved are honesty, courage, faith and steadfast, and to a lesser degree, respect. All these virtues have to be combined and cultivated by the person seeking to better themselves, so as not to give up halfway or being misled into wrong teachings.

Virtues when cultivated, grows. And like plants being watered, it will start to bear fruits (the result of the virtue). So yes, how we cultivate the plant, starting from the seed, determines what quality of fruits we will get.

On your assertion that striving for perfection is better than merely striving to be better,i can see where you are coming from. But like i said this is just the difference in the standard we set for ourselves. In my opinion, striving for perfection, although noble in intent, is very hard to achieve and sometimes we may be dejected by the constant failure to reach a goal too distanct in the future. On the other hand, just wanting to be better than we were before, allows us to achieve successful result with each attempt. Our success can be measured and confirmed sooner. Constant success reinforces our believes and encourages us on our path. Such constant positive reinforcements is also beneficial to our self esteem and this indirectly effects our confidence in other aspects of our lives.

Like right now, i've just taken up running/jogging as a sport. To be perfect in running would mean to be able to win a marathon. But my approach isnt to win any marathon although one day i might. Now i'm just focused on being a better runner month by month. I try not to focus on where i will end up as a runner, instead i just allow my hardwork to bear its own result.

In other words, im more interested to DISCOVER the result, rather than moving towards a certain one. This way, i can never fail.

But alas this is just a matter of different perceptions and approach. We are all different. Do what feels right to you.

This post has been edited by teongpeng: Feb 18 2011, 11:57 AM

what is perfection? do you know where it will end?