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English Clubs Liverpool Football Club - The Kop Talks 2011, Liverpool 3-1 MU- Suarez+Kuyt Combo!

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Duke Red
post Mar 15 2011, 12:20 PM

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QUOTE(normeck @ Mar 15 2011, 12:12 PM)
i think there is a similarity if you are a Liverpool fans. why dont MyRawk, LSCM, and others club do something together...then we can inject/influenced slowly to get back what Bill Shankly highlighted 'closer together'
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MyRAWK and Liverbirds Malaysia comprise mainly of supporters who do not see eye to eye with the LSCM. It isn't like none of us had wanted to join at some point. Both have members who were from the LSCM but opted out for their own reasons.

The LSCM is the official supporters club of Malaysia and they get all the perks, including funding and they liaise directly with Liverpool FC representatives. I don't think you'll find any of the independent clubs objecting to unity just so long as they are not put under a dictatorship, but a democracy. However as I said earlier, it will take a forward thinking individual with vision to do this.

Do not however make the mistake of thinking that I want to be part of them. I am just disappointed that they don't practice the same values I've learned to respect by virtue of being an LFC supporter. In the end, I'm fine being with likeminded fans even if we are a minority or don't number in the thousands. You don't have to go to church to be a believer.


Added on March 15, 2011, 12:21 pmOn a brighter note, Happy Birthday LFC.

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This post has been edited by Duke Red: Mar 15 2011, 12:21 PM
Duke Red
post Mar 15 2011, 03:42 PM

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QUOTE(kendotnet @ Mar 15 2011, 12:40 PM)
you sir Duke Red, inspire me to be a better liverpool fan.

YNWA
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Glad to hear it. I draw inspiration from reading the stories of other Liverpool fans around the world, going through biographies from current and former players/managers such as the great Bill Shankly, Tommy Smith, Phil Thompson, Robbie Fowler and Jamie Carragher. I find it hard not to be smitten after doing so. I am aware that we all have our own obligations. I've had friends tell me that they don't have the time but then I see them out watching movies, going for drinks and stuff. We all have time, we just have different priorities is all. I personally find time to read when I'm in the toilet smile.gif, or just before going to bed.
Duke Red
post Mar 15 2011, 06:43 PM

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QUOTE(kendotnet @ Mar 15 2011, 05:58 PM)
I have been supporting the great Liverpool for almost 8 years now. But I dont really find the time to read about their history and what a great club Liverpool is. Probably when I started supporting Liverpool I was about 14 years old, a little too young to understand the culture of LFC.

But now once I'm much more matured, I figure that watching football is so much more different if you know the club's history and culture. Its more than just watching Liverpool play on TV, its knowing the history of a particular club that makes a true RED.

I am now inspired to actually take time off to read about Liverpool and its accomplishments.
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Good to hear! Start by reading about Bill Shankly. He played a massive role in giving the club it's current identity.

On Gerrard, I think that Houllier played a huge role. Gerrard used to be a fragile player who was constantly injured. Houllier was paramount in his rehabilitation if you can call it that.
Duke Red
post Mar 16 2011, 11:13 AM

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QUOTE(kamkamparadise @ Mar 15 2011, 09:54 PM)
I'm not very familiar with Gerrard transformation from DM-CM-AM but i think it was Houllier and Rafa that played a huge part in developing Gerrard into what he is now right?
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I'm going to avoid being drawn into Football Manager type discussions when it comes to positions or formations. All I know is that since he made his debut, Gerrard has always been a box-to-box type player. His passion and fire for the club was evident from the moment he stepped on the pitch for the first time as a 17-year old. In fact he was so fuelled with fervor that he was often reckless. His game really matured when he was handed the captaincy at which time the title of "Captain Fantastic" was bestowed upon him. It was an important decision from Gerard Houllier, to strip the popular Sami Hyypia of the captaincy, handing it over to Gerrard. You could therefore say that Houllier played a big role in Gerrard maturing into the footballer he is today.

Gerard Houllier's contribution to the development of Steven Gerrard as a player is often overlooked and as time goes by, is in jeopardy of being forgotten altogether. It was Houllier than gave him his debut. Few people remember how injury prone Gerrard once was. He was blighted by back and groin problems early on and this was attributed to a growth spurt. Houllier had to be cautious not to overplay him whilst he was going through a "rehabilitation" process and eventually, the treatments paid off and Gerrard overcame his problems.

Many say that Gerrard is the player he is today because Rafa shifted him into a more advanced role but it must be remembered that it was Houllier who gave him the captaincy, and it was Houllier that helped him overcome his chronic injury problems. On the issue of how he transformed from a defensive midfielder to attacking midfielder and so on, I only have to say that Gerrard had always played on either half of the pitch. Initially, he filled in for the injured Jamie Redknapp and was even used sparingly on the right wing. After only a couple of years, he was given the freedom to roam. He was and still is in my opinion, the most complete player in the Premiership.
Duke Red
post Mar 16 2011, 11:45 AM

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QUOTE(kamkamparadise @ Mar 16 2011, 11:28 AM)
thanks for the info bro. that should give me enough info on Gerrard. regarding he is the most complete player, i think he might need to improve on his defensive side. yeah, like u've said, i still remember his recklesness in his early teenage days. often got into bookings for some reckless and unneeded tackles. but ever since he transformed into AM and support striker, from my observation, not that he neglected his defensive duties but his defensive ability nowhere as good as he was before. he wasn't that comfortable and reliable when he's at the Liverpool side of the pitch. there's always fear that he might do something reckless i.e the misplace back pass. well, as Man Utd fan, i can describe it as the same feeling as having Scholes playing off the ball chasing opposition midfielder  laugh.gif . but, some part, i agree with you that Gerrard is one of the most complete player to ever grace in EPL. Lampard might banging in goals for fun but his play only limited to attack when Gerrard can do both attack and defence except he sometimes poor in the latter.
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Speaking of Lampard, it still confounds me that the decision to play either him or Gerrard in England's midfield was such a tough one. No disrespect to Lampard but there isn't a doubt in my mind who the better player is overall.

When I say he is the most complete player, I don't mean that he is the best in every position. The fact that he can play in every position alone, indicates the diversity of his ability. People once ridiculed Shebby for suggesting that Gerrard's best position is at rightback. Not that far off if you think about it. He played rightback towards the end of our 2005 epic final against AC Milan. Also I dare to say that at the time, Steven Gerrard would have been one of the best rightbacks in the country. This doesn't mean however that he isn't one of the best where he is now. Pele was once famously quoted as saying that Steven Gerrard would had made the Brazilian national team of old and this is high praise indeed, but not unjustified.

If there is a reason Gerrard doesn't focus as much on the defensive side of things, it's because we've had midfielders that are more than capable of protecting our back four. There was Didi, the Alonso, next came Mascherano and now a new icon is beginning to emerge in the shape of Lucas. Gerrard doesn't drop back as much because he doesn't need to, not because he can't.
Duke Red
post Mar 16 2011, 12:19 PM

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QUOTE(mangifera @ Mar 16 2011, 12:01 PM)
He made lots of blunder with his player signing although they're also few good signing (Riise, Hyypia and Didi Hamann), he's a good manager given the time but not a great one. Houllier being forgotten because of the disastrous signing that he made. Perhaps Anfield's hot seat proof to be too hot for him.


Houllier may have lost the plot towards the end of his tenure but I feel that many overlook his contribution to the club. It has to be said that despite the brand of negative football played, he did manage to win us 5 titles in a single season.

In terms of transfers, there are also notable names like Stephane Henchoz (who we signed from relegated Blackburn), Steve Finnan, Marcus Babbel, Gary McAllister, and Jari Litmanen amongst the names you mentioned.

QUOTE(mangifera @ Mar 16 2011, 12:01 PM)
I hope Daglish not too focus on grooming young players that he forgot Gerrard. He's the kind of player who need attention alot and a good fatherly figure like Daglish could groom Gerrard to be a better player. Oh, how I miss his explosive goal.


Liverpool needs to start preparing for life after Gerrard. Whether he leaves because he wants to fulfill his ambition of winning a Premiership title, or he retires from old age, we do need to start looking for "the next Gerrard". Same goes for Carra.
Duke Red
post Mar 16 2011, 12:52 PM

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QUOTE(mangifera @ Mar 16 2011, 12:41 PM)
How could I forget about Finnan? Man, i'm still bitter when Rafa offload Finnan, Riise and Bellamy. They could still play good roll in Liverpool even by now. Ok, better not crying over spill milk.

Who's next Gerrard? Local lad? How about Martin Kelly, is he good enough to be next Gerrard? Or Jay Spearing is good enough to replace Gerrard? Level aggression and good work attitude, he need more playing time to polish his talent although he's not that young. I prefer Martin Kelly to be next Carra, he's tall and good work attitude but it will be wasting of his pace and ball control ability. Although Carra also playing as midfielder before groom into defender. Perhaps it will be the best for Kelly.
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Players like Gerrard don't come around very often so I doubt we'll see any local lad earning the title anytime soon.

Kelly is a decent fullback and like you, I'd like to see him play at centreback simply because I think he'll cope with pacy forwards much better than any of our current ones. Ability wise, no current player in our squad can replace Gerrard. Spearing has the right attitude and I imagine leadership qualities as well having captained the youth team but he is nowhere near Gerrard in terms of ability.

If you ask me, we need to forget this whole, "next player" talk. For me, it is crucial to maintain a local flavour in the side, in the shape of whoever. We don't need someone with the same amount of ability because the team has shown that we can play without Gerrard in the side. I would rather a team of decent footballers play amazing football than one amazing player, play in a decent side.


Added on March 16, 2011, 1:08 pmYet another example of how being a fan of Liverpool transcends football.

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This post has been edited by Duke Red: Mar 16 2011, 01:08 PM
Duke Red
post Mar 16 2011, 01:35 PM

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QUOTE(kamkamparadise @ Mar 16 2011, 01:26 PM)
i think among those names u've mentioned, maybe Litmanen have the least effect on Liverpool. he did had his moments of brilliance but not too much as far as i can remember.
True but he was to me, a good catch. Amongst Houllier's signings, Litmanen was arguably the most talented having once won European Player of the Year honours. At the time, he was amongst the best players in the Premiership playing in the "hole". The problem is Houllier's tactics did nothing to bring out the best in Jari. Opting for the long ball approach instead of playing short passes on the deck, Litmanen was rendered useless as he quite simply, isn't a target man. What a waste.


Duke Red
post Mar 17 2011, 10:56 AM

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QUOTE(hfi @ Mar 16 2011, 08:13 PM)
If Mellor is/was such a promising talent then how come he didn't even manage to end up at the likes of Bolton or any other mid level club ? He was average at best and we got rid of him because Rafa brought in the likes of Bellamy and Kuyt.
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Right you are. He wasn't even a regular at Preston. I still remember "that" goal against Arsenal but I also remember a bloke who was severely lacking in pace. He is a one-dimensional forward and I'm not surprised he's struggling to secure a regular spot.
Duke Red
post Mar 18 2011, 11:53 AM

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It's only 11:30am but I'm already extremely knackered. Got up at 4am for the match and I've not slept since. I feel like one of those mindless zombies walking around in Walking Dead waiting for my ass to get fragged by one of my bosses.

Let's put things in perspective. It's true we were up against what some may have termed as "inferior opposition" and the tie could quite honestly have gone either way. Both teams were almost equal and in the end, we lost to a penalty. It's evident there is still room for improvement but let us not forget that King Kenny hasn't even been in charge for half a season yet. Still there has been a marked improvement since Hodgson left so there is cause for optimism.
Duke Red
post Mar 18 2011, 01:17 PM

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QUOTE(hellsoldier33 @ Mar 18 2011, 01:03 PM)
if i have the money i would sell 70% of the players. we are just not up to standard so to speak.

first to sell, maxi + cole + lucas

i don't want to expect much from lucas already, i rather get a normal midfielder that could be like essien , or a black midfielder, can tackle and scare the player off ...

lucas just don't 'scare' the players...so they become daring to close down, and our players body so weak, when they appraoch , we find some way to pass and passed wrongly. sigh how many times seen this.
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Huh?

What is your definition of a "normal midfielder"? How is Lucas abnormal? "Black" midfielders to scare players away? What does the colour of your skin have to do with anything? Vinnie Jones, Stig Toefting, Duncan Ferguson, Thomas Gravesen, Terry Butcher and Stuart Pearce are just some examples of tough guys who are white.

Sorry dude but your post makes little sense.
Duke Red
post Mar 18 2011, 02:37 PM

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Kuyt may not be a flashy player but he is one of our most important ones. He may not have the best of touches and he may not be a superb marksman but he works harder than anyone else. What use is this you say? If you look at this morning's game alone, Kuyt was constantly closing down the goalkeeper and the defenders each time they were on the ball, looking to run the clock down. He also gets back to help defend when needed. He is constantly in motion, and defenders cannot switch off against him. If it were me, I'd keep him in the side and I can see why each of our last 3 managers starts him whenever he's fit.
Duke Red
post Mar 19 2011, 08:43 AM

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Respect to Kenny for giving opportunities to everyone. I bear no malice against him naming Maxi or Cole in the side. In all honesty, they may not be the players they once were but they should have been decent against a side like Braga with all due respect. I didn't expect much from either when they came on board. Despite being ever present in the Argentenian national side, Maxi was struggling to get a game at Atletico. Cole could not get into the Chelsea first team and had lost his place in the national side. If you ask me, they are actually playing to expectations despite the media blowing Cole's free transfer out of proportion claiming it could be the coup of the season.

I don't understand the criticism towards Mereiles. Despite not having the best of games against Braga over two legs (do keep in mind the whole team wasn't playing well), he is still in my eyes one of the better midfielders in the Premiership. Remember his intelligent runs and superb linkup play with Suarez against the mancs? To each his own but I think he is Hodgson's best signing.

Johnson has always been a conundrum. Great going forward, suspect at the back. I do however think that he is vital to the current squad. We do not have natural wingers in the side and rely a lot on our fullbacks going forward along the touchline. Without Johnson, we lack penetration on the wings.
Duke Red
post Mar 20 2011, 12:29 PM

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Was watching the Man Utd game with my mates, 5 mancs included whilst playin poker. A bad spill by Jaaskalainen settled it in the end. Bad challenge from Evans but let us not fall into the trap of calling him a dirty player after just 1 example in the manner Carra did. A little rush of blood to the head is all it takes.
Duke Red
post Mar 20 2011, 04:02 PM

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The thing about pointing your finger at someone is that there are three pointing back at yourself. We haven't exactly been playing good football on a consistent basis and Arsenal are 2nd for a reason whilst we are 6th.

I don't share the sentiment that the mancs winning their 19th title doesnt matter. It sucked each of the years I saw them drawing closer to us. While I do agree we shouldnt focus on that, I cannot say I won't feel a thing. I don't speak on behalf of all Liverpool fans but I do know a number personally who will feel it.
Duke Red
post Mar 20 2011, 04:11 PM

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I don't see the need to belittle other teams. Makes us no different from those who constantly belittle us. Makes a mockery of us calling ourselves, "the best fans in the world". I'd rather focus on us doing well but to each his own.

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