http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmcO4G6I0jA

http://www.wowprogress.com/

I wonder if it's possible for Malaysian guilds to be top contenders for world firsts?
Take Paragon for example. Paragon is a 100% Finnish guild and is largely unknown during Ensidia's reign of glory.
And out of nowhere, they are now the top raiding guild in the world.

Another good example would be Stars from TW WoW, they are currently among the top 5 raiding guilds in the world. They were largely unknown before their claim to fame with Yogg+0.

I've played in EU guilds before, and I have mentioned before that their discipline and dedication are second to none. They make us work for our raid spots and whip us till our backs break (literally, not to mention that I'm both angry and thankful for the impression they have left on me)

But I would like to know from you guys. What do you think? What makes these guilds tick? Can malaysian guilds do the same?

This is PVE, not like PVP where extremely good latencies actually do matter. So, please do not include the reasons 'because of high server latency' or 'streamyx sux' in your replies.

Discuss.

This post has been edited by gaeria84: Jan 24 2011, 10:32 PM

can i ask the what is the sacrifice need to be done if u want to be teh best raiding guild?

from my humble opinion,

1. malaysian dont have such discipline
2. we too dramatic
3. we give up too easily
4. we like politics more than kick ass dps
5. we compare too much
6. we dont share loots
7. its every nigga for themselves among malaysian

No sacrifice needed. Hardcore guilds do not raid as much as you think. They only put their feet to the pedal when new content is released. Other days, they raid like any normal guild.

From what I have seen, most guilds are too dependant on boss guides, preferring to wait for boss guides and strategies to be posted on mmo sites rather than wipe countlessly on the first few days of new content.

u need scarifice la..in terms of playing time

1. you hardly find malaysian wow players, because malaysian usually dont play p2p games.
2. WoW is too hard for them, so they prefer dota because it is so f***en easy by just faceroll the 4 spells in da keyboard (e.g. team KS,see how they became so famous in worldwide but sadly the homeground smm grand final got pawned by the china team, 1st china 2nd china 3rd china 4th china)
3. even if u so lucky recruited malaysian, their attitude and discipline no where difference compare to dota players, 99% of dota players love to rage at each other same goes to wow they will eventually rage at guildmates who looted their items.

cannot.. too much real life responsibilities to look after rather than chasing for first kills... Unless my dad strike $100million lottery then maybe :>

It's silly to attempt to be a top guild regardless of who you are. It's like getting Realm Firsts while leveling. At 3:00 AM you click "PLAY" as fast as you can, blaze through all the levels and get beat by the 10 other players who got SSDs, a better processor, and a better internet connection than you. Raiding is the same - it's all about efficiency, coordination, and even where you live is an advantage.

Since you're in Malaysia, I'll point out some things about your location:

You live in the GMT+8 time zone in Malaysia, the same time zone as Western Australia.

So, let's say Europe and America get Patch 4.1 at the same time one day apart (US first, then EU) (this is assuming you plan to form the guild on an Oceanic server). Server time in Oceania is (I assume) the same, or probably GMT+9 (assuming the servers are set to Darwin time) or GMT+10 (assuming servers are set to Sydney time). Assuming maintenance starts at 10:00 AM EST (which means 11:00 PM Malay time) and ends at approximately 7:00 PM EST (because Blizzard is infamous for procrastinating server availability during major content patches) (meaning 8:00 AM Malay time), you're actually at a slight advantage provided you park your character outside or near the new instance (also assuming that your work day starts somewhere around 9:00 AM, which is probably doesn't. Of course, that could be negated by the fact that you're unemployed if that is truly the case). You wake up refreshed and ready to kick bubble gum and chew ass (pun intended)(yes, the original IS the other way around).

If something seems obscenely inaccurate, please let me know.

This post has been edited by Sup: Jan 25 2011, 08:28 AM

we dont have the latency too. The closest to the best latency is wowtaiwan and oceanic.

If u want to attempt world 1st in US with mostly Malaysian player playing in Malaysia? forget it.

---

Added on January 25, 2011, 8:55 amya true. The time factor too.

This post has been edited by hidden830726: Jan 25 2011, 08:55 AM

do able,
atleast you need 10 people got the will(freetime) to do it.
atleast reallife friends
they atleast have a balance life (work also play wow).
enough income to sustain life
not kiasi
and finally,
dedication



congratulation, world first/server first its yours

in my point of view, in the end, it just not worth it.

This post has been edited by Imbecile: Jan 25 2011, 08:57 AM

To put it simple, unless all malaysian can play together under one roof - i mean server, else, u wont be able to get the best ppl for the best progression.

Look at all of us here, we split among, wowUS, wowOceanic, wowTaiwan, and different different server, alliance and horde side.

Malaysian are not concentrated enough to perform such feat.

Unless some sponsor come, recruit and hence to get the best pve player under one roof.

Its a small pool btw. Not alot of Malaysian playing this game. Especially when its so expensive to start with. They play DotA because DotA, is affordable and playable with friends in Lan party. Where else wow, the popular perception is where it require expensive start up CD key, which true to a certain extend. Even with wowtaian, which im trying to introduce to everyone, still see the monthly fees / time card as a barrier.

That's too many free to play game in the market.

---

Added on January 25, 2011, 9:07 amU need 10 of them to be leet in pve too.


This post has been edited by hidden830726: Jan 25 2011, 09:07 AM

its not impossible, u just need to find 10 person like me.
works only 4 hours a day.
enuf salary to cover evrything.
GF that really understand ur passion.
know how to balance life and social. so u dont get bored to easy.

FACT - malaysia population is estimated to be 28+ millions.
68% of it - 15-60 years old.

and we cant find only 10 person??? impossible. MALAYSIA BOLEH!
ask ur fren to ask ur fren to ask ur fren to join play.. lol..

can i go for an interview for a job like yours?!!? pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...

anyway... we can... if we are more dedicated and be less calculative, we have the typical china man thinking...

if he got it, i want it too!

y i wanna wipe non-stop if i can wait them tell me how its done?

repair bill is a cost.

waahh! i got 10 malaysian friends in wow to raid... oh wait... got ang moh there, looks like they more pro /gquit bye pariahs!

hehe my companys not too big, only 5 ppl running the show..
yeah to i dont think to find 10 ppls is impossible..

the search is on for the CHOSEN 10..

LOL

>top world contender

you best be jokin nigga

---

Added on January 25, 2011, 11:58 am^



i rest my case.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Jan 25 2011, 11:58 AM

Not only that, but a conventional Aussie Darwin and east would start work before maintenance was over. You're only competing with people from Western Australia and some stragglers from elsewhere.

So many negative replies?

First and foremost, the point of this thread is not to taunt Malaysian guilds into thinking and accepting that Malaysian guilds are vastly inferior to other guilds. This is just to jog our minds as to why we cannot perform a similar feat. Is it because of our culture? Is it because of our mindset? Is it because we severely underestimate our own capabilities?


This is not true. Paragon (http://www.paragon.fi/about) for example, under normal circumstances, only raids 5 hours per day, 4 days (Wed/Thu/Sun/Mon) per week.
They also added that during farming period, it can be as low as 2-3 hours per week. Reason for this is because most of them are working adults, who can only play after work, and yes, they also need time with friends & family.
In case you do not know about european culture, is that they do everything within a certain timeframe, then they leave everything on the table, and go to bed/socialize with friends/RL stuff.
They do not practice staying up late (trust me on this, have seen this with my own eyes, they would not sacrifice sleep for a game). They allot a few hours a day for raiding and get everything done before bedtime.

The more time you invest doesn't necessarily mean the higher your chances are of getting a boss kill. A boss kill doesn't depend on how much time you have invested, rather on how fast you learn/adapt to the encounter.
You can invest a few hundred hours/wipes and still not get a boss kill, some guilds can invest only a few hours/wipes and still get a boss kill.


This is also not true. Remember ForScience, the world first 85? He did mention that he was unable to log in to his server for a few hours, so he was actually set back by a couple of hours, but despite that, he managed to get world first just 2-3 hours before his closest rival.
Similarly, for pve encounters, some guilds take a shorter time to clear an encounter, some take longer.
You may log in an hour late, but if the guild that has entered an hour earlier before you takes three hours to clear an encounter, while you only take one hour, you are still ahead of the game.
Let's not forget, EU guilds getting world firsts despite the fact that they get their patch a day after US guilds. Stars TW got world first Yogg+0 despite the fact that TW WoW only receives their patch a week later than US/EU.

Anyways, don't be mad, not trying to hurt anyone's ego or anything. Just a burning question I have been attempting to answer for quite some time now

Even if it's not for world first, top 100-200? Not pushing anyone to perform similar feats, I wouldn't even push my own guild to do it if they don't want to. This is not a challenge, this is food for thought. Judging from most of the responses here, I can already see why.

This post has been edited by gaeria84: Jan 25 2011, 12:59 PM

Red/yellow ping will kill us

I remember i used to raid so often long time ago and failed because of ping and sometimes maybe my PC is low spec

LOL. did u read the 1st post till finish?

Halfway and someone did mention latency

This is pve. And latency do affect pve. Period.

mentality.

Yes, but not to a great extent. I would only classify anything above 600ms to be horrid for raiding. And most of us here have 200-350ms, some guilds even have sponsored tunneling services.

^

true. but so long you're getting anything below 400-500 (which is highly possible even WITHOUT tunneling/vpn services) it doesn't.

and the TS post is implying, and assuming that you should be at least able to do at least that.

looking for 10 malaysian is not impossible...

im/my guild is an example, it consist of 7 real life friends, colleagues and family, 3 other i know them through this forum... 10.

well, dun get me wrong, i would like to see Malaysian guild being competitive. I'm trying to expand wow influence in Malaysia too, and i will definitely lend my hand if there's any such project.

Regarding the latency comment, it is merely directed to the TS saying latency ain't matter for PVE.

The truth is - It matter varrying between class and specs.

Since the thread also talking about being competitive, by using Paragon example, they min/max class composition just to edge that little advantage.

Latency will definitely affect PVE. And to get competitive, need to fix the latency first. I reckon anything not more than 350ms to be ok, anything above that, forget about competitive. Just my 2 cents.

Unless the question is, if latency is not an issue, can we do it. Yes

Also, by getting 10 malaysian in the guild wont work, u need 10 equally committed and skill ful players.

This post has been edited by hidden830726: Jan 25 2011, 05:42 PM

if the supposed target to be world first guild does fall apert from guild loot drama,
then we can discuss how to improve Efficiency pve script fight skill later in game PTR.

uber leet(targeted world 1st) raid guild spend most of their time in PTR learning the rope, less in-game.

remember guys, getting 10 man for a comment goal is not that hard(or easy)
in vanilla, you need 40 people to raid, and you need the "old specific raid spec"
people get kick out of raid at that time due to got spec a less efficentive dot effect(due to boss limited dots slot)

athenewins aka ForScience able to convince his friends(20? there even 2 horde helping) to grind with him for 5 straight hours on quick respawn mob, just for him only to be world 1st 85

so 10man is not real issue,

lantency, get tunneling/vpn services if you prefer a "better line"

boss guide, you learn this in PTR. hope fully you don't find a trick the GM consider as an exploit result in ban and miss your shot on world 1st.
remember LK 1st kill, rogue + engineer bomb, guild ban for 1 week.
latest the tw's STAR(i though they are actually china player who got tired of china wow's game between companies and high ranking china paliment drama and all re-roll in taiwan guild) have pointed there a exploit there los boss to take zero damage from raid boss aoe and hope blizz fix it.

time? 7th DEC 2010 world pendamic 'hello, boss ah, i got sick oh... what tim, sam, samantha also call in sick, coz we are same guil- i mean we spend alot of time together ma, got same sickness, can't come lah," /hangup.
ok overreacted, just take 4day leave.

then your done, do able, need time, efford, coordination, will/mindset, more kiasu.
less wrath babies, kiasi.

Since, we are in Bolehland, which is the master of theroycraft. Boleh.

Sure can, but what is the motivation?

How much ping are those top guilds facing?

Sometimes missing an interrupt by 1 second could means a wipe or near wipe

In BC, i know a lot of fights whether fail or success is determined by your latency and pc spec

This post has been edited by ChcGamer: Jan 25 2011, 05:28 PM

you probably did not raided vanilla WoW contents.

almost an hour long fights, wipe at the last 10% because one f***er didnt feel like not failing. 39 others /rage
oh hey lets not forget some encounters (lol nefarion. i bought counterstrike for 9.99 usd because of that) have lockout periods too.

and while i never personally raided c'thun. the videos should be enough to show how retarded that shit can be compared to say, yogg saron perhaps

good shit.

lets just say, BC is much more forgiving, and even further on WOTLK and then cata.
and while 1 person may fail, the other person could've cover. considering how almost everyone now have interrupts. lol @ streamlining classes. then there are dual specs.

Make sense, but not for this thread. U may explain on why it is easier nowadays to raid as compare to last time, which i decline to further comment. This still doesn't showcase or minimize the important of latency in PVE.

If 1 person fail while interrupting, your argument is where, other ppl can cover,

What about, if a person fail at stacking or fail at moving away from fire due to lag or that little latency inefficiency?

Who to cover?

Pls do not try to tell or explain latency not important for PVE any more. Maybe the TS want to ammend the original post a little bit, to say that assuming very good latency.

Can Malaysian gamer's skill par / outskill those in US or Europe?

This post has been edited by hidden830726: Jan 25 2011, 05:57 PM

Some members of Stars TW actually play from the US. So 200-350ms give or take, which is pretty optimal while not perfect.
Blizzard did not design encounters that require superhuman reflexes. All encounters give you ample time to interrupt or react.

In the case of optimal latency, honestly, it's rare to see people failing to interrupt cause of latency, but I see a lot of people failing to interrupt just because it gimps their dps

This post has been edited by gaeria84: Jan 25 2011, 05:59 PM

200 - 350ms consider good latency actually

I can agree to a certain extend interupt is not an issue.

But still, latency somehow affect our dps.

So, what is the plan? OneMalaysia Guild?

This post has been edited by hidden830726: Jan 25 2011, 06:01 PM

No, that's not the purpose of this thread lol.
Trying to hit home an idea which was taboo for many people.

Fail interrupt+PC lag = 90% wipe on 10man Nefarian in Cata (Blase Wave+late jump due to latency)

Last time 40man if 1 man AFK also it wont make a big difference. I admit i didnt raid much of the 40man content because i'm in a US server where the active raiders are asleep when i'm awake but i did raid for the 25man in Vanilla

I'm not saying latency is the main factor but it does play a part in how successful a raid can be. Certain classes need good timing which requires good latency to maximize DPS

This post has been edited by ChcGamer: Jan 25 2011, 06:12 PM

my above post have nothing to do with this thread. its just to reply to you. though technically, its related to latency somewhat.

stacking/fail to move away wont be affected by ping under 400-500. which again, i have pointed before, and also mentioned that it is possible even without tunneling/vpn services.
if they still fail, then it is their own failure, nothing to do with latency.

Please do not try to place blames on latency for one mistake. instead of placing blames and b**** and whine, why not try to work around said latency. who knows if you're actually able to be a world top raider? i know for sure blaming latency wont bring you anywhere.

---

Added on January 25, 2011, 6:14 pmhere is the thing. you kept trying to blame on technicalities, where the purpose of this thread isnt even about that.

PC lag? what, you want to blame WoW or whatever/whoever else for your own problems of not able to purchase a PC that is able to play WoW smoothly? come on.

PS: unless you're on farming contents, it actually takes all 40 man to make things work. did i mention those near 1 hour fights? yea 1 man dps (or mana to heal, LOL HEALING ROTATIONS!) sure as hell didnt matter.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Jan 25 2011, 06:14 PM

stacking/fail to move away wont be affected by ping under 400-500?

Serious? Not slightly delay?

I've never blames on latency on wipe, i am merely saying latency gives different between competitive raiding.

If skill is equal, then latency will be one of the differentiator.

The TS is talking about competitive raiding. Not about normal raiding. I knew it is possible to move away from fire if ping 400 - 500, but how optimise is the movement, are u taking extra damage and hence giving extra pressure to the healer, due to the split second delay?

So? How can latency not important in competitive raiding.

If u want to argue, pls argue within the context of this thread.



This post has been edited by hidden830726: Jan 25 2011, 06:27 PM

Come mon, be realistic, technicalities is one of the main reasons why Malaysian online Gaming suffer.

Period. If we assume, our line top notch, pc, superb, time, no problem, money, not an issue, can we be competitive?

Boleh!

No one is trying to blame on latency as culprit, ppl just implying that latency is one of the major issue / barrier to Malaysian competitive raiding.

This post has been edited by hidden830726: Jan 25 2011, 06:28 PM

^

this.

skill is a subjective variable. you can have the BEST SKILLED players of the WORLD place together. however if they have zero co-ordination and they cant work together at all, they can be as noob as a 3rd rate non-factor scrub guild trying to break low tier raiding content.

my point? there are many things that affects an outcome of a PVE content raid. and i for one, strongly disagrees that so long latency is under 400-500, you will not be affected by said latency. one can always try to move ahead. sure you may gimp probably a few % of your dps, however you not dying/giving pressure to healers was your concern right?

again, WoW was not designed to require superhuman reflexes. it is designed for people to work together in unison the correct way (aka learning your damn encounter, and beating it. and by learning i dont mean reading up wow wiki or guides as you are contending for WORLD RAIDER, aka being damn fast at content where guides arent even out yet)

again, latency is important. if you lag over 1k ms ping, you have no reason to be in the guild/raid. however, if you are serious about raiding, especially competing for server/world first, i believe it is safe to assume that one should at least put in dedication, such as getting a better connection (if screamyx doesnt work, try jaring, try unify for example, or even move house/place of residence), if pc lag, buy new pc. etc etc.

you may think its overboard, that is YOUR OPINION. the rest of those elitist sure as hell dont think so. and most of them are even SPONSORED for being at the top of the world.

---

Added on January 25, 2011, 6:32 pmPC:
can you buy a decent PC that can support WoW at full graphic settings and no lag?

yes

connection:
can a malaysian get under 200-300 ms (even lower than 400-500 whoo!) with or without tunneling/vpn?

yes


i know there are MANY MANY Malaysians can say yes to the above to. even in THIS VERY LOWYAT.NET WOW FORUM
if you cannot at least put in the effort/dedication to make the above "no's" into "yes's", then i believe you do not have a place within competitive raiding.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Jan 25 2011, 06:32 PM

I agree with the rest. Just not this line.

See, im aware of competitive raiding scene, and i understand what u are suggesting.

Just, for u to imply that latency is not an issue, there is no sense anymore.

Still, ya, maybe we shouldnt even require to argue abt this, because most of the issue can be settled if they get sponsored.

Chill.

motivation?
you want william wallace wow version? general maximus version? or Eric Cartman version?
William Wallace:" they may call us nolife, but they can't deny we get! World! 1st! Title!"
General Maximus:" what we do in the this patch, echo for the rest of the expension"
Eric Cartman:" you want to stand around here and throw some ball, or you want to do something meaningful?"

motivation? idk. people do thing for diffrent purpose, reason,

for athenewin's friend's
1. his my bro,
2. i'm his beach(misspell intended)
3. coz like he ask me to do it for him and i was like "... okay."

world first motivation for
1. aside the athenewins above.
2. 15mins of fame?(world wide/or within wow comunity)
3. 1 week of fame?(local community)
3. maybe able to find game sponsers for the extra cash(foriegn country only?).
4. for the lol?
5. epeen?
6. our Prime Minister will give you dato-ship, cash, a big house, and 1 day holiday for the whole nation to celebrate your guild achievement(unlikely)

This post has been edited by Imbecile: Jan 25 2011, 07:16 PM

Can be done la but we have far too little wow players to begin with. To filter the bads and casuals will leave you with very few hardcores that are already in a elitist guild. Latency should be ok la as long you have an average of 250ms with quality graphics + high fps pc. Australian guilds like adept are already making it big, back in those days in dreadmaul they couldn't even get immortal for the glory of naxx and struggled with bad players. They bounced back in ulduar and soon they were no.1 in oceanic. Now they are like World 12th.

The difference between regular hardcore guilds and the elitist ones, they are never copycats and they have planned for every single progress decision. They spend a whole load of shit time in ptrs to learn fights and wiping on stupid bugs. They also have tight raid spots which u need to fight for. Guilds like Paragon is on another elitist level, because they have a huge team to care for their interest and they plan weeks/months ahead for their progression. If u read their old blogs bout their preparation for icc hm's u will get what i mean. They form a few alt raids to farm for their mains because all their alts are super geared from togc25 when they were working for insanity25. All their mains never raided together in normal. All 25 mains only raided on 1st day of icc hm.

To say they dont sacrifice much is bullshit la, these are world class sponsored players they even make their own god damn addons for perfection. Each decision they make is properly analyzed n calculated. ALL YOUR BASE R BELONG TO US

Well written.

Guilds like Paragon are fortunate in that they have the 'depth' - i.e. the ability to field a group of 25 skilled and dedicated people, 20+ of which are probably more than capable of guild and raid leading any progression guild.

Sadly, this is not true of Malaysian, and even Singaporean and Australian guilds. The mentality of most regional Oceanic guilds I've come across appear to have an 'abang-adik' attitude. Cliques of 5-10 people who prefer to play with each other rather than any other people. This is especially bad when it involves guild leaders, who just promote his friends to officers, and subsequently don't bother to be fair to the rest of the guild. For instance, you just ask yourself if you would personally be willing to kick out a priest who is played by your best friend or colleague from work if you find another priest who heals much better and more skilled overall.

So sadly, the more close-knit culture of Asian societies that value family and friends is also the reason why we will inevitably lag behind Europeans, who are more likely to value dedication and commitment over more personal issues. In short, I think most of you will agree that progression raiding in WoW needs to be an impersonal thing.

With only a handful of exceptions like Tsunami and Elementium, most other Oceanic raiding guilds who think of themselves as serious progression guilds are nothing more than casual guilds in European terms.

I can't comment on the CN- and TW- servers, though, but at this point, forget about Paragon and even American guilds like Premonition. I would consider it an achievement if a Malaysian-majority guild were to be able to come somewhere near Elementium's rate of progression. For those who don't know, Elementium is an all-Singaporean guild. Let's face it. They will be a fair comparison since they will have almost the same level of work/life commitment as Malaysians, and with tunnelling, I don't see them having superior latency and broadband than us, honestly.

This post has been edited by tritonite: Jan 26 2011, 01:03 AM

Yes agreed 100%

10 random people who can show up in raid is easy to find, but 10 long term committed players is not easy to find actually. Because to aim for first kills is not a short term project where 10 players can just come n steal first kills under paragon's nose (or all top guilds) just like that. You may have your best 10 players made up right now, but can this group of people really last til deathwing or next expansion? Other top guilds dont just have exactly 10 or 25 skilled players in their disposal. They have WAYYYYY MORE than that. They are well known, everyone wants to join that guild. They can easily find and gather good players (as long as they pass the language requirement lol) and I'm sure they can find at least 20-30 spare/backup players just like that. How many of you guys actually spend time in ptr anyway? Are you willing to spend hours on those ptr servers rather than live servers? Got so much time?

Honestly, for me if i play in ptr server or attempting a new content/boss where I wipe alot, it will be dam sien and dam demoralizing. I have ppl to layan later and they dont give a shit of my game and my stress from it. From here means you have to find someone who really really dont mind about this, got really alot patience and willing to stay up doing it again and again. (and no parents to bugg you, no friends to bug you, no gf/bf complain non stop)

And yes, they are being sponsored too. And who knows they are getting paid by cash every month too so they don't need to work anymore. Because playing wow is 'work' for them already.

Earlier I read people saying they wont sacrifice sleep or outings for the game. Normal players maybe. But for those first kills players, thats BS. If you want the first kills, YOU WOULD! Even if you wouldn't... YOU MUST!! You may not see their mains, maybe they are playing/farming on their alts. They don't get free golds, someone has got to do some farming/dailies. And I believe they would be really realllllyyy hardcore for the first couple of weeks til they down everything down-able. lol.. I just checked their facebook, they cleared 25man BOT 3 days (10dec) after cata out... I'm not sure I'm even geared enough for heroic on that very day.

Just wondering... Because I'm not sure of oceanic progression. Any of you guys actually even raid and down even 1 boss on 10dec? or nego abit.. make it 15 or 20dec.. I'm sure there should be at least 1 from our 26mil population right? right?

This post has been edited by alexision: Jan 26 2011, 01:03 AM

i have the same lifestyle like u.happy with it at the moment.sometimes i pay someone to cover my paperwork just to spend more time playing wow.the only problem now we have a very small wow community in malaysia.maybe 80% casuals 20% hardcores.they're more msian wow players out there who dont know we exist from this forum

RaF is your friend, guys.

Yeah this is a valid reason to a point. Just like any real world organization too, this mentaility applies. But its not a hindrance if the common goal and determination is on par on everyones mind.

Another reason why elitist guild are where they are today. As you guys know wow requires alot of theorycrafting and in-depth knowledge of class and boss mechanics. The people behind those names did alot of research on how to outsmart the boss mechanics. This would not happen if you're a regular tankspot copycat guild. They pour in hours of mind juices on class mechanics vs boss mechanics to outsmart blizzard.

E.g. Example like why Paragon chose to use 11druids for nefarian hm, they know the raid dps required to defeat the boss before they get outrunned by adds and fire in p3. Due to the mindcontrol mechanic in heroic, if u were to survive the mc, u will get a stacking buff (Stolen Power). The best way to do it is with feral druids rip, at that time i think other dots work but the damage is highest with rip. This method end up trivialize the whole encounter when the dot(rip) ticks for 500k damage and ends up doing 4million damage per druid. And this is called "clever use of mechanic".

"clever use of EXPLOIT"

Fix'd

Which is why I mentioned the bit about 20+ people who can raid lead. Think of the best, most committed person in your present guild. The guy who researches and formulates your strategy for every raid, even if it's a simple matter of reading Tankspot and watching Youtube videos. Now, imagine a whole raid of people like that. That's what the top US and European progressions guilds are like.

Well, to be really honest, I don't like to count on 'clever use of mechanics' myself. It just seems a bit 'dirty' . I'm not saying that it's wrong and people/guilds that do it should be banned or anything. Heck, if it helps you get your realm first or something, go for it. I just rather do encounters like they are 'meant' to be done, so to speak.

Coming back to that elusive Malaysian guild, rather than expecting for 10+/13 HM T11, I think it would be great if there would already to be a guild that is at least 12/12 normal T11 by now. Entirely doable, imho. After all, Finland itself only has 5.3 million people in it, and from that, they make up the whole Paragon guild

After 5 years in upper-end raiding guilds - i.e. those that finish content 1.5 to 2 months after the realm firsts - I have personally lost interest in full-on hardcore raiding. Just spend my time doing 'guild and raid support' roles these days. I help with the mining and herbing for raid consumables and step in to play main raiders' shadow priest and warlock when they can't make it to raids, and also sort out guild admin stuff like DKP/loot updates on guild site. I'm happy. I'm get to experience content without a full commitment.



This post has been edited by tritonite: Jan 26 2011, 12:36 PM

Enjoying reading every post on this thread

TL;DR on every post here. long story short

AZN PPL cant unite to raid.

^

true story bro based on 5 1/2 years of wowing

W

If that's the case then how do Taiwanese guilds snatch top spots? I'm not willing to bet they're full of Laowais (Chinese for "foreigners").

Oh, and in Season 8, 4/10 top 10 5v5 Arena spots were held by Taiwanese arena teams.

E: ^ According to ArenaJunkies.

This post has been edited by Sup: Jan 27 2011, 09:43 AM

The pvp part i can answer u. I dont bother checking. Lets assume your stat is true. But imo it does not represent the whole picture.

wowtaiwan is a server of its own, and generally the pvp intensity / quality in wowtaiwan is lower than US. And hence they are higher rated. That may be one of the reasons why Taiwanese arena teams get 4/10 in 55 according to u.

Look at the latest arena tournament when Blizzcon 2010, taiwanese team, lost their 1st game, US ppl even joked that taiwan team dont even deserve their spot in the tournament, because every year its a free win and they always lose on 1st game. Worldofming site should still have the articles on taiwan teams.

I think one of the main reasons why taiwanese fail in these tournament is due to taiwan arena mostly focus on 55 while US focus on 33.

While i can agree that pve wise, Taiwanese guilds shock everyone by pulling a world first, pvp wise, they are still lack behind. Who knows, maybe one day we can see them at the top too.

This post has been edited by hidden830726: Jan 27 2011, 08:59 AM

I think you misinterpreted my message. I'm saying that 4 out of the 10 top 10 spots are held by Taiwanese teams, with the top 2 being exclusively Taiwanese, 3-6 being EU/US, 7 being Taiwanese, and 8-10 being EU/US.

E: But you still have valid points there.

This post has been edited by Sup: Jan 27 2011, 11:17 AM

Ya, my understanding to your remarks as per above.

When will we get Malaysia team?

i dont reply to people who are less then a month old just like how ming dont talk to people who are below 2400

Stars has been quite famous b4 their world 1st yog-0 kill. They were a famous hardcore guild from china servers since vanilla they all xfer and started fresh from lvl 1 in tw servers for wotlk. They were continously in world top10 since vanilla.

This post has been edited by Xyth: Jan 27 2011, 02:04 PM

''bersatu kita teguh, bercerai kita roboh''..

its not impossible if we all unite..
if all the malaysia WOW 'otai' (atleast 2-5 years experience)
stay under 1 roof,
recruit ppl and newbie and guide them to the right direction, i think it can be done..

yes im new player, when i registered, i try to find guide or forum from Malaysia, and i end up here.. saw alots of player here play diffrent races and realms.. and i confuse, which 1 to choose? which 1 have more Malaysian so i can play together and learn things? do they care about other new Malaysian player?

as a new player, do i care bout other thing? NO.
i just want to play. and if i have lots of frens, i maybe happy and keep playing. im sure positive things can happen if alots of happy fren play together. right?

well this is just new player opinion..

p/s - now playing at Gundrak as Horde, in some foreigner Guild, have to sacrifice my sleep time just to keep up with them. :/

It is possible if you can manage:

1. Discipline
2. Time management. Raid start at 6.00PM, online at 5.30PM
3. No drama, just bear in mind, this is just a game. Keep your problems elsewhere.
4. Judge people by skill over experience. You've played WOW for 100 years, but still you're the 1st one to die.
5. Good communication skills and great leader.
6. Set rules on loot. (To prevent loot whore)
7. Make sure you don't have people under 18 y/o in the guild.
8. Give 10 minutes break for every boss kills.
9. Dont cramp the Vent, make it organize.
10. Avoid chatting in trade or general.
11. Wow is a srz business. Treat it accordingly.

Last but not least and the most efficient part is, IF i have tons of money, I'll setup a house and put 25/10 people in it, and give them salary to raid with me. They will play according to office hours and have OT , if they tends to stay overnight. there will be KPI bonuses each year, according to their death, awareness and punctuality.

YES WE CAN DO IT!!!

*before 1st raid boss fight*

player1: all has UNIFAIL, rite? we gonna rock this and getting ourselves world 1st
player2: buff buff
player1: kk let's gooooo

*during 1st raid boss fight*
player1: watafak lag? i'm having lag spike!!!
player4: oh noes...
*ugly stuff goes here*

*5th attempt*
player1: ok, this time i tied up my sister from doing facebook, twitter, youtube and 4chan
player8: aint you said it last time
player3: yeah
player7: i'm getting bored wiping
player1: i use bondage technique that i learn from *beeeeeeep* and duct tape, she wont escape this time
player1: goooooo
*sh!t happened*

*12th attempt*
player1: okay, we are getting close...
player6: yeah
player3: buff plz...
player5: just dun stand in the bad stuff u naab
player1: what?
player4: oh
player9: =.=
player1: ok, we will get him this time!!!
player1: goooooo!!!!
*pelangan sekalian,perkhidmatan internet mengalami masalah technical, kerja baik pulih sedang dijalankan. harap maaf*

*3 hours later*
player1: all back
player1: good
player2: we'll get world 1st nao
player5: buff
player1: gooooo!!!
*flash*
world first: p*r*gon
this message is courtesy from r*is y*tim, who promised to improve internut connection
*flash*

player1: what?
player3: NOOOOOOOOOO
*emo-rage stuff here*

*new dungeon patch, 3 months later*
player1: all here? good
player5: buff plz
player1: all at sg?
player8: i'm still stuck in ipoh
*player8 is kick out of raid party*


This post has been edited by Instant_noodle: Feb 1 2011, 11:58 AM

haha instant_noodle,what u said is so true

you dun need rocket science to know this fact when some dude whose older than dinosaur (a small phenomena in twitter) and has modular language access (needs to discard and load new language mode) is managing our information technology and the internut service

Like TS said, if IF if if the internet connection are not the reason, no matter what we using. I know we have terribad ISP, but still its play-able. I know, yellow/red can kill us or even frequent disconnection, but that was a risk we have to take to play online right. BTW, good stuff you got there

i dont understand why people are complaining about internet connection? i raid with tmnut sack and dont feel any lag at all, except once when tanking LK lol good times.

Not lag nt neccessary no delay. Its abt marginally competitive.

Wrong, Paragon are known to raid 12-14 hours a day during progression.

He was only late 1 hour.

you haven't have half the raid dc before midway in the fight? not to say everytime lol but when they are adds you need to manage it is most of the time bye bye lol. however i did not dc at all when the raid members are mostly Americans and my latency will almost always stays yellow unless it is a bad line or tmnut has a problem.

well like i said i only dc or lag like hell when my house mate is dling otherwise the ping is playable, cant complain much about tm net also since i have friends in vietnam playing and even thailand and they do not complain about lag. just get a proxy server and your good to go