How much you pay for this?

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Added on April 15, 2011, 11:41 am

That's about 22.5% discount... is that normal for tag? Thought they can go 25/30%?

Spotted at Red Army Pavillion, RM16,320 with 20% discount, serious buyer can nego bit more.

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Added on April 15, 2011, 11:00 pm
+1 their vintage series are very nice.
B&R Vintage Series recent launching event,
http://www.malaysiawatchforum.com/index.ph...pic,2472.0.html

I have not seen a cheap B&R today, the cheap B&R are those made by Sinn (maybe by Guinand). its hard to find those in NOS.

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Added on April 16, 2011, 8:22 am

is that a Chronometer?
it looks to me like a Chronograph. its a quartz watch right? it is COSC certified?

1.1.3  What does "17 jewels" mean?

Higher grade watches have traditionally used a jeweled movements, which means that jewels (originally natural ruby, now synthetic ruby) were actually used in the movement. These jewels are functional - they are used as the bearings for the wheel trains and in high wear parts such as the escape lever and impulse jewel.

A lower-end movement from before 1970 would typically use 5 or 7 jewels; this end of the market has pretty much been taken over by quartz.  Nowadays, most manual wind watches will have a standard complement of 17 jewels, which are:

1:    Impulse jewel (the part of the balance wheel assembly which receives a kick from the escape lever)
2-5:  Balance staff pivot bearings (two pairs - in combinations of one pivot jewel (i.e. jewel with a hole to receive the axle (pivot) of the wheel) and one cap jewel (i.e. jewel without a hole outboard of the pivot jewel, to prevent excessive movement of the balance staff), usually shock protected)

6-7:  Escape lever pallets (one pair)
8-9:  Escape lever pivot bearings (one pair)
10-11: Escape wheel pivot bearings (one pair)
12-13: Fourth wheel pivot bearings (one pair)
14-15: Third wheel pivot bearings (one pair)
16-17: Center wheel pivot bearings (one pair)

Note that automatic winding movements, and movements with additional functions such as chronographs and calendars, can up the total number of jewels tremendously. For example, the IWC Il Destriero Scafusia (claimed to be among the most complicated wristwatches manufactured) has a total of 76 jewels to accommodate the time, perpetual calendar, rattrapante chronograph, repeater, and tourbillon functions - and this is a manual wind watch.

1.1.4  Why do they use synthetic ruby?

Ruby is technically known corundum, and is a crystallized form of aluminum oxide (Al2O3). In pure form, corundum is white in color; trace impurities are added to change the color - to red in the case of rubies. It should also be noted that any other color of corundum (including clear) is known as sapphire. Ruby is used because it is an extremely hard and provides a slick surface for the wheel pivots (and other steel components) to operate on. In a mechanical watch, there is a constant force applied to the pivot of every wheel in the wheel train, which is applied by the wound-up mainspring.. (see my article in  TZ Classics on the coefficients of friction for various materials, if you're really interested...)
Without any jewels, the steel wheel pivots would very quickly grind away the bridge and plate material until the wheels came out of alignment, and the movement would crash to a halt. In the inexpensive watch of yesteryear, the pivot holes may have been provided with hardened metal bushings.

Ruby is significantly better than steel in handling the forces involved, wearing long, and providing a nice low friction surface suitable for both high-load as well as high-speed motion. With modern production methods, they are cheap (~$0.02 each). And they look nice.

1.1.5  Are more jewels better?

Not necessarily. As noted above, a typical hand-wind movement today will have only 17 jewels as a full complement. Some really high-grade or ultra-thin movements will add a few extra jewels to further protect against any wear, but even these top out at 21-23 jewels.
Only those pieces of the movement which are between the mainspring and the escape wheel are candidates for jeweling, as these are the movement parts that experience the large forces or relatively high speeds of the mainspring or escapement. Other components, such as the motion works (i.e. hour and minute wheels), calendar mechanisms, and winding train are not under this constant stress, and thus arguably do not need jewels.

Automatic winding movements will add about 4-8 jewels to help most efficiently transfer the relatively small rotor forces into winding the mainspring. Another factor has to do with how the watch is constructed - especially for chronograph movements and perpetual calendars. Some chronograph movements used today (including the ETA 2894-2) are modular in construction - meaning that a plate containing the chronograph works is grafted onto a basic timekeeping movement. Since the original timekeeping movements were not always designed with this in mind, it becomes critical for the add-on module to add as little "drag" as possible - which may indicate use of jewels for their low friction properties.

BTW, one will occasionally encounter a quartz movement with jewels in it - they technically aren't really necessary because a quartz wheel train is not constantly under stress. There is a discussion of jeweled quartz movements in the archives.

As a historical note, there was a "jewel craze" about 50 years ago, where manufacturers, under the belief that the public thought more was always better, came up with 75 or even 100 jewel movements. Most of these jewels were not functional in any way, and the results looked ludicrous to an informed eye.

Any1 know how much is this????

went to see the ML les classique chronographe automatique today. Found out that the case back is not transparent. I want one with a transparent back case.

Can you guys recommend me a watch similar to this model, which has a reliable and accurate automatic movement, about 41-42mm , has a transparent back casing. I dont mind it with or without a chronoghraph. Price between 6-8k after discount and it must be a well known and reliable brand. Thanks guys!

Anyone have any opinion of Raymond Weil? I think im getting 1 as a gift soon.   

not a new 1 thou... preowned when i was a kid.... i think.

jz wanna know the branding

hahah! luckily i got the tissot..was considering the windfall..nah.

bro quartz is way better than cosc la.

COSC certified is only applicable to mechanical watches, the daily average accuracy variant will be between -4 and +6 seconds.
Any reliable quartz movement is definitely running more accurately than COSC certified watch.

"Only 3% of Swiss Watch production is COSC certified"

thats surprising.how about the rest?

COSC is overrated. My quartz Seamaster runs more accurately than my COSC Submariner
My Speedy is non-COSC as well, no issues on accuracy (although it being a manual, it rarely runs more than 2 consecutive days).

Personally, I feel that all these accuracy issues are secondary. First and foremost, you should always like a watch for how it looks and how it feels on your wrist. Everything else should come after that.

I know of guys who buy new watches and complain that their new automatic has lost/gained X seconds after Y days. Seriously, who gives a flying rat's behind about a few seconds :S

Don't miss the forest for the trees!

all my watch non cosc   

http://youtu.be/ArUH1uhXWKE

http://youtu.be/Lc2Mbx3lpHo

Just to share. He documented the restoration process. Time to crank up the poison
http://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=33136

He has since found a matching replacement dot for the bezel.

moomoosan,

Get a divecom and use your watch as a secondary timing source man. That's why you have two wrists

ivanswk,

Have you considered the SD 16600 instead? Used ones can be had for pretty good prices I believe. And I personally feel they look less tacky than the DSSD =/